Does water conduct electricity?

[Ernie]

I'm just wanting to try and start an explanation of L rod movement.
Most L rod uses claim that they can find water. Yes/No?
So assuming Yes then does water conduct electricity? Yes/No?
From chemistry i've learnt that pure water (H20) (rainwater) cannot conduct electricity and therefor will have no magnetic fields but will be acted upon by gravity and so will have a weight. Yes/No?
But pure H2O very rarely exists below the ground in nature? And so H2O will have other conductive elements held in it as a suspended solution? Yes/No?
So an underground stream carrying conductive minerals such as gold will act as a type of conductor that can have a potential difference along its course? Yes/No?.
If the underground stream has potential and current flow then it should also have a magnetic field. Yes/No.?
If a gold element with a potential (amount) of energy (ability to do work) and a weight caused by a gravity force, travels down a hill stream to the ocean does it still have the same potential energy and weight? Yes/No?.
If No where did the difference in energy go?
If it was transfered into a strong magnetic energy or strong gravity force / weight enrgy in the stream can I detect it?
happy prospecting
Ernie

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Ernie

I'm just wanting to try and start an explanation of L rod movement.
Most L rod uses claim that they can find water. Yes/No?

The answer to your first question is "no" ... so the other questions are pointless.

The explanation of L-rod movement is the ideomotor effect. It's quite simply a trick of the mind.

Read it and weep ->
http://sites.google.com/site/dowsingtruth/

[hung]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The explanation of L-rod movement is the ideomotor effect. It's quite simply a trick of the mind.

Your statement is plain wrong, not to say it's a real stupidity.

Whenever you try to mislead people here on this subject, I will try to show up to avoid this might happen.

For those who want to know this info and others related to this subject, visit dowsing forums such as the dowsing section in the TNET forum. You will have plenty of material to learn about this subject. This forum does not cover dowsing.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The answer to your first question is "no" ... so the other questions are pointless.

The explanation of L-rod movement is the ideomotor effect. It's quite simply a trick of the mind.

Read it and weep ->
http://sites.google.com/site/dowsingtruth/

Hi Qiaozhi.
Really you never saw any dowser user to find water with Lrods???? It is the only easy and there are million of persons that can locate water with 100% success!!!

[Fred]

Originally Posted by hung

For those who want to know this info and others related to this subject, visit dowsing forums such as the dowsing section in the TNET forum.

You will also need to be narrow-minded.
It´s just like going into church to learn the truth about a religion.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi Qiaozhi.
Really you never saw any dowser user to find water with Lrods???? It is the only easy and there are million of persons that can locate water with 100% success!!!

If i may, Qiaozhi is not saying someone with l-rods cannot find water, he is just saying that it is not the L-rods that are detecting the water.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

Your statement is plain wrong, not to say it's a real stupidity.

Whenever you try to mislead people here on this subject, I will try to show up to avoid this might happen.

For those who want to know this info and others related to this subject, visit dowsing forums such as the dowsing section in the TNET forum. You will have plenty of material to learn about this subject. This forum does not cover dowsing.

Is this what you call debunkering.

The ideomotor effect is so compelling to those with a pseudo-scientific mindset, that it's no wonder you are confused.
Even with all the hard evidence against dowsing, you still persist in promoting this medieval nonsense. Please stay on the dowsing forums where you can blissfully remain unaware of the real world, and indulge your penchant for fairytales.

As you rightly said, "This forum does not cover dowsing."
This may be the only true fact you have ever posted here.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi Qiaozhi.
Really you never saw any dowser user to find water with Lrods???? It is the only easy and there are million of persons that can locate water with 100% success!!!

Originally Posted by Fred

If i may, Qiaozhi is not saying someone with l-rods cannot find water, he is just saying that it is not the L-rods that are detecting the water.

Thanks Fred. That's absolutely what I am saying.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Ernie

Most L rod uses claim that they can find water. Yes/No?

In retrospect, I suppose I should have answered "yes" ... but they are deluded.

[Ernie]

Thanks for the input so far. This is a bit like building a family tree. So far Hung wants to plant a seed but dislikes the ground we’re wanting to plant in. So has taken his seed elsewhere to grow and may possibly return at a later date with a cutting to show us, hopefully his tree won’t die and have to be recycled at a later date for firewood. Quiaozhi’s tree almost died from dehydration, “You can lead a camel to water but you can’t make it drink”, thank goodness he decided to accept a drink of water at the last minute and keep growing.
So far we can conclude that out of 100% of the population A% cannot use the dowsing method to find water, B% can use the dowsing method to find water and c% say dowsing what's that? I am interested in the B% that claim they can and what possible forces (gravity/magnetic, etc) could explain this so that i can concentrate on building a real life remote sensing machine, the subject of which, is covered in this forum/thread. Out of the B% I would also agree that 100% of the B% of the population can use the divining method for finding water and so now to question number 2 for my tree.
No.2 - Does water conduct electricity?
happy prospecting
Ernie

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Fred

If i may, Qiaozhi is not saying someone with l-rods cannot find water, he is just saying that it is not the L-rods that are detecting the water.

Hi Fred.
Don't play with the words.
Ernie wrote "Most L rod uses claim that they can find water. Yes/No?"
and Qiaozhi answered
"The answer to your first question is "no"".
So, what Qiaozhi said?????
Regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi Fred.
Don't play with the words.
Ernie wrote "Most L rod uses claim that they can find water. Yes/No?"
and Qiaozhi answered
"The answer to your first question is "no"".
So, what Qiaozhi said?????
Regards

My meaning was simply that L-rods do not detect anything but gravity.
However, later I re-read the question, and answered as follows:

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

In retrospect, I suppose I should have answered "yes" ... but they are deluded.

The question was not asking whether L-rods work, just whether the L-rod users believed in their delusion or not. Of course, the answer is that most L-rod users do have an unshakable belief in their dowsing abilities. Such is the power of self-delusion and selective memory. Target location using dowsing is linked to psychology, not physics.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Ernie

Thanks for the input so far. This is a bit like building a family tree. So far Hung wants to plant a seed but dislikes the ground we’re wanting to plant in. So has taken his seed elsewhere to grow and may possibly return at a later date with a cutting to show us, hopefully his tree won’t die and have to be recycled at a later date for firewood. Quiaozhi’s tree almost died from dehydration, “You can lead a camel to water but you can’t make it drink”, thank goodness he decided to accept a drink of water at the last minute and keep growing.
So far we can conclude that out of 100% of the population A% cannot use the dowsing method to find water, B% can use the dowsing method to find water and c% say dowsing what's that? I am interested in the B% that claim they can and what possible forces (gravity/magnetic, etc) could explain this so that i can concentrate on building a real life remote sensing machine, the subject of which, is covered in this forum/thread. Out of the B% I would also agree that 100% of the B% of the population can use the divining method for finding water and so now to question number 2 for my tree.
No.2 - Does water conduct electricity?
happy prospecting
Ernie

Hmmm... Interesting point of view.
I think I would get on the camel and ride him away from where the trees are planted until I arrive at the local pub where I can quench my thirst without relying on digging a questionable hole.

To answer your question No.2, no... water does not conduct electricity. But things dissolved in water can. I suspect most ground water has a lot of stuff dissolved in it, and would be somewhat conductive, but not as conductive as copper wire.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Ernie

So far we can conclude that out of 100% of the population A% cannot use the dowsing method to find water, B% can use the dowsing method to find water and c% say dowsing what's that?

In fact, you cannot arrive at such a conclusion ... unless you are also self-deluded.

The reality is that 100% of the population are unable to use dowsing to locate water. Note that this is subtly different to saying that dowsers have never been successful, as even a blind man on a dark foggy night can sometimes find water.

You should really be saying that B% of the population believe they can use the dowsing method to find water. You are currently making an erroneous assumption. As I stated previously, the other questions are pointless.

[mts]

The problem with all of this is that in the end you are going to make some giant leap to assuming that L-rods can detect magnetic or electrical fields which they cannot. Hung will no doubtedly come back on me and declare me to be an idiot and then throw a bunch of unfounded pseudoscience at me that simply doesn't make any sense. In the end we'll be right back where we started from.

So I applaud the effort, but the end result will be the same. The believers will continue believing and the skeptics will shake their heads in amazement.

[Ernie]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

In fact, you cannot arrive at such a conclusion ... unless you are also self-deluded.

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The reality is that 100% of the population are unable to use dowsing to locate water. Note that this is subtly different to saying that dowsers have never been successful, as even a blind man on a dark foggy night can sometimes find water.

You should really be saying that B% of the population believe they can use the dowsing method to find water. You are currently making an erroneous assumption. As I stated previously, the other questions are pointless.

Qiaozki wan'ts to play the game - Is the glass HALF full or HALF empty?. You would have to be a HALFWIT to play that game. I wanted to start a type of family tree with this thread to find a science explanation for dowsing. So o.k. QIAOZKI can’t find water so unfortunately his tree in this tread has died of dehydration and anyone in the B% will hopefully be able to make conversation WITHOUT Qiaozki tree rising up from the ashes ever again. Maybe Qiaozki can better spend his time deciphering Estebans broken English explanations of how his FM works. ie As they say in the Australian mining industry - f off ya halfwit!!


Pheeww! I thought we wouldn’t get this far within 24 hrs.
Well I for one can say that I both believe and have physically found water via divining so I am in B% that can AND therefor the B% exists and should be alowed freedom of speach on this forum. Maybe with some more of the same positive communication we can all take the “pseudo” out of this “medieval evil pseudo science” and give it a righteous place and scientific explanation. The main reason it became medieval evil pseudo science was in the first place that scientist did not have the knowledge, tools , experience and manpower to answer how it works and they answered to their sponsors the churches, so the churches there for called it evil “the work of the devil”. A funny thing I find with the narrow minded Christian churches and dowsing is before the medieval times their bible was different. Modern day Luke5 describes how Jesus taught the masses how to divine schools of fish. But today’s post medieval bible has been edited by a medieval religious scholar thinking he was a greater messiah than Jesus and now does not describe that he ( Jesus ) used a fishes tail as a divining rod just as you would use a forked stick for water. Maybe before proceeding I should change my online name from Ernie to Satan 666.
Ionic solutions in water, why yes! I would think that it would depend on the elements that are leaching into the water flow to determine the overall charge of the stream, but it does sound logical that ionic solutions flow underground. y/n? Then it may be a thought that these spare electrons or lack of spare electrons in the ionic solns cause a type of current flow similar to that in copper wire but at a speed of the stream speed y/n? If so then a very slow changing voltage difference would occur down the path of a stream and also a magnetic field would be present y/n?
O.k. so the L rods aren’t detecting the water (y/n)? But they may be part of a circuit that is, similar to an antenna in a receiver, or glasses for seeing, a type of extension of the main detector. y/n? My main question still remains. Which forces are involved? Gravity? y/n? The water flows down hill due to gravity until it gets to its (onion type) layer in the planet. (I think everyone will say yes) When I divine with L rods is my brain sensing this via balance in the ear drums or senses elsewhere, and stimulating my muscles (internal body current flow) on one side of my body in an attempt to regain balance, which in turn charges one rod and causes them to come together? Y/n? Sounds reasonable to me, if I was using metal rods.
An interesting experiment I did once was after detecting the center of a known underground stream I then placed one rod into the ground (a type of electrical earth) the other rod swung quickly towards the direction of the current flow underneath me. Maybe it was acting as a type of gravity field compass? Y/n or possibly the magnetic field of the stream underneath caused this to happen?? Y/n?
I still can’t get my head around a forked tree branch though, a known and tested 30,000 year old method for finding water. O.k. one hand will be charged a bit more than the other (like two plates in a capacitor) and the tree branch contains water and possibly an ionic solution, but this to me does not explain the force that twists the fork down to the underground water.
Happy prospecting
Ernie

[WM6]

Hi Ernie, you are hidding your arguments so well, that they can not be opposed.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Ernie

<< other stuff snipped >>

....but this to me does not explain the force that twists the fork down to the underground water.
Happy prospecting
Ernie

If you are truly looking for the "real" explanation, and not just trolling; the answer may be found in the ideomotor effect. Holding the fork under tension, and at the ready position, will easily twist the bark off the fork when the ideomotor response fires and the tip of the fork moves violently down towards the ground. There is nothing electric or magnetic or electronic happening to cause this action - and if you think there is, you have been fooled by an illusion.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Ernie

I wanted to start a type of family tree with this thread to find a science explanation for dowsing.

You've already found it ... but you're not listening!

Your posts are similar to a child who doesn't like the response to his question, so he keeps repeating it in the hope of getting a different answer.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

You've already found it ... but you're not listening!

Your posts are similar to a child who doesn't like the response to his question, so he keeps repeating it in the hope of getting a different answer.

Do you suppose that anyone who keeps looking for the answer they have in mind will eventually find it?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Do you suppose that anyone who keeps looking for the answer they have in mind will eventually find it?

Best wishes,
J_P

Maybe on a dowsing forum, but not here.

[goldfinder]

Q ans: PURE Water is non-conductive. In fact water purity is measured by its conductivity- the purer the water the less it conducts. I have a water purity meter. They are standard equipment for testing water purity.

I agree w/ Earnie. Water can be found with dowsing. I have a friend in Calif. who makes a nice living dowsing/witching water wells. He is about 98% accurate.

The mechanism of dowsing is another question. the ideo motor effects is just another mental gimmick to name it something else. It solves nothing. People who cling to this are to be discounted.

I do believe and know that there is some type of physics going on with all matter that once we understand the physics we will be able to do long range (a least much further than current EM methods) detection of minerals like we do spectral analysis and metal detector stuff. I don't believe that the method will be an EM effect. There are non-hertzian (i.e. non-EM) fields, forces, energy emanations and this is well proven. For those who don't believe in them, they are simply those who haven't kept up with some really advanced physics that is being proven in the lab and nature and don't want to admit anything outside their little domain of "knowledge".

So Earnie,Hung,Esteban - keep at it - there is gold in them thar hills.

Goldfinder

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Ernie

Ionic solutions in water, why yes! I would think that it would depend on the elements that are leaching into the water flow to determine the overall charge of the stream, but it does sound logical that ionic solutions flow underground. y/n?

There are many elements and compounds that leach into streams above ground and underground. These are mostly salts which become ions of oppositely charged molecules or atoms after they dissolve. The net charge is zero, as there are an equal number of anions as cations from salts. However, there are sometimes imbalances in the net charge caused by subatomic disturbances as well as electrical and chemical influences in the vicinity of the stream. The amount of imbalanced charge of the dissolved ions is infinitessimal in comparison to the total amount of anions an cations that are dissolved in any body of water. A few rare exceptions can occur for short durations. For example, if a lightning bolt strikes a stream, it could be possible to find a local area of water with a large imbalance of charge, and resulting chemical and mechanical disruptions for some short period of time. Shortly after the imbalance, the charges will seek paths to neutralize to zero, with the voltage behind the charge imbalance as the driving force to find equilibrium. Unless the imbalanced charge is located in a good insulator, it will quickly discharge through the most convienient conductive paths, leaving no net voltage difference. This tells us the stream has zero net charge except in the instants when there is a disturbance that causes an imbalance. Also, take note that this zero charge is in relation to the surrounding soil. If you were to talk about the difference in charge between the stream and a plane flying by, there would probably be a measureable difference.

Originally Posted by Ernie

Then it may be a thought that these spare electrons or lack of spare electrons in the ionic solns cause a type of current flow similar to that in copper wire but at a speed of the stream speed y/n?

The positive and negative ions are homogenously mixed in the water with a net charge of zero or close to it. If we think of these equally distributed charges as flowing, we could say there are negative ions moving at the speed of the stream that constitute amperage moving downstream. Then we would also need to count the equal number of positive ions also flowing downstream alongside the negative ones, which constitute an equal amperage moving upstream. The net current flow is zero. It is the same current flow you can find from carrying a short length of copper wire in your hand with nothing connected to it while walking along the bank of the stream. A meter will show there is no measurable current flowing in the wire due to it's movement in the downstream direction. And we know the copper wire has negatively charged electrons as well as positively charged protons moving in the downstream direction.

Originally Posted by Ernie

If so then a very slow changing voltage difference would occur down the path of a stream and also a magnetic field would be present y/n?

Voltage difference? What do you suppose would cause a voltage difference down the path of the stream? Maybe earth resistance to telluric currents under the ground?

Originally Posted by Ernie

O.k. so the L rods aren’t detecting the water (y/n)?

According to some people L rods aren't detecting anything. But if they are detecting something, I doubt it is water. When geologists use instruments to detect water and other anomalies under the ground, they actually detect other things than the water. For example, they detect the capacitance or resistance across a distance of the earth from several locations, or they detect radio frequency penetration properties, or listen for echoes, etc. After studying the results they observe from their instruments, they form their conclusions of what they think is under the ground. In most cases, geologists are pretty good at figuring out what is hidden under the ground.

Originally Posted by Ernie

But they may be part of a circuit that is, similar to an antenna in a receiver, or glasses for seeing, a type of extension of the main detector. y/n?

I have no idea what L rods are part of. The only answers I have heard are opinions that have a wide array of explanations.

Originally Posted by Ernie

My main question still remains. Which forces are involved? Gravity? y/n?

Also more opinions are the only answers I ever heard. You will probably never find any scientifically tested answers, because no scientific evidence has ever produced any electronic test data to suggest any force is at work with the exception of gravity pulling the rods downward, and a person's arm muscles causing them to move. However there is no shortage of opinions and even claims of tests to prove the opinions are correct. I doubt you will see any real tests results that you can use to repeat the claims you hear other than gravity helps to pull the rods down, and your arm muscles can help to move them any other direction.

Originally Posted by Ernie

The water flows down hill due to gravity until it gets to its (onion type) layer in the planet. (I think everyone will say yes) When I divine with L rods is my brain sensing this via balance in the ear drums or senses elsewhere, and stimulating my muscles (internal body current flow) on one side of my body in an attempt to regain balance, which in turn charges one rod and causes them to come together? Y/n?

First, in the case of underground water, these streams can also flow upward when the surrounding strata dictates it must. But it generally seeks a downward direction due to the force of gravity. I have no clue how this relates to your ear drums or balance when you are holding dowsing rods.

Originally Posted by Ernie

Sounds reasonable to me, if I was using metal rods.
An interesting experiment I did once was after detecting the center of a known underground stream I then placed one rod into the ground (a type of electrical earth) the other rod swung quickly towards the direction of the current flow underneath me. Maybe it was acting as a type of gravity field compass? Y/n or possibly the magnetic field of the stream underneath caused this to happen?? Y/n?

I have no idea.

Originally Posted by Ernie

I still can’t get my head around a forked tree branch though, a known and tested 30,000 year old method for finding water. O.k. one hand will be charged a bit more than the other (like two plates in a capacitor) and the tree branch contains water and possibly an ionic solution, but this to me does not explain the force that twists the fork down to the underground water.

I have no idea.

If you have narrowed down the force under question to be magnetic, electric, or gravitational, then there are some tests you can make to see which if any of these forces is at work:
You will need sensitive instruments to make these tests... the kind that geologists use. Here is how you can find the answers:
To test for a gravity force, you will need to use a gravimeter. If you don't own one, you could rent one or borrow one from a geologist in between field surveys.
Simply log the gravity readings and compare them to your dowsing response. It would be helpful if you recorded all your dowsing response before taking any gravity readings so you can be sure your response was not influenced by what you know the gravimeter reports.

You can repeat the same test with a magnetometer and with an electric field meter and any other instruments you want. If you are using calibrated instruments, then you will get some good data that shows what forces actually exist in the locations where you are seeing dowsing response, not opinions or anecdotal stories. Maybe this kind of testing can help eliminate some of the mystery about dowsing for you.


Best wishes,
J_P

[mts]

I think J_Player has this under control. Excellent answers.

[detectoman]

geo: may be is been easy find water whit l'rod, due what water is in movement and is conductive and has salt, these induce superficial magnetic field lines difference on iron, so due change of ground polarization, but on medium and little object this other story
tambien una rama verde en forma de y, y presionada a tension se dobla hacia abajo debido a la humedad que comprime sus fibras por el lado de abajo debido a la diferencia de exposicion del vapor de humedad, y arriba de esa rama el calor del sol, esto aunado a la alcalinidad interna y atraccion de hambre de sed de esa rama verde