Strange "Phenomenon"

[Geo]

Hi .
Before 5 days i went to detect old buried objects with my LRL. Basically i wanted to find a object who will give me a strong signal so to have it as reference when i make every modification on my LRLs. But no one signal.
After it i went to a farm where there are a lot of old broken buried ceramics.I believed on this "archaiology" place to find a good signal. I found another problem. A lot of signals but not so strong. I received at least 30 different signals, but when my LRL beep 3...4 times then i must waited 0.5 ... 1 minute so to receive the signal again. The time was 21:00 and temperature 23o celsius. So i want your opinion ... was the small signal from the alone small objects deep in the ground or the signal was from ceramics, because more of the old ceramics have iron oxides who metal detectors detect them.

[Max]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi .
Before 5 days i went to detect old buried objects with my LRL. Basically i wanted to find a object who will give me a strong signal so to have it as reference when i make every modification on my LRLs. But no one signal.
After it i went to a farm where there are a lot of old broken buried ceramics.I believed on this "archaiology" place to find a good signal. I found another problem. A lot of signals but not so strong. I received at least 30 different signals, but when my LRL beep 3...4 times then i must waited 0.5 ... 1 minute so to receive the signal again. The time was 21:00 and temperature 23o celsius. So i want your opinion ... was the small signal from the alone small objects deep in the ground or the signal was from ceramics, because more of the old ceramics have iron oxides who metal detectors detect them.

Hi,
many things are possible same time.

If device is not stable can run on instability like cycles of also several minutes and thus gives you the appearance it's detecting something.... where it isn't really, and it's just kinda of sinusoidal drift... tunes and detunes its own.

If device detects "something" like could be some signal from e.g. targets (but which signal I don't know) then the presence of ceramics could be a problem, we know sensitive MDs detect ceramics (fired and not in some cases) very well... me , myself own device that detects bricks like cigarette packet in size at about 50cm range.... that's huge detection for something not conductive!

Maybe the ceramics interfere and give extra signals (but which signals ?) ?

Or the farm land is full e.g. of foil pieces and other trash (usually farm land is not so clean today... people e.g. bring their meal around... make picnics and the like... then something always go into soil... mix with it... oxidate etc etc)
Think at e.g. how many times you lose screws... bolts... farm machines pieces.... how many horseshoes... how many piece of rusty fence wires etc etc big "universe" many times... Clean farm land do not exist anymore to my experience.

Then could be other stuff... like plants interfere with detection ... e.g. some small bush, or sharp tipped plants... these can do wrong on MDs and thus you can make assumptions them could give you lot of false signals even of LRL thing (if we suppose it works).

What else ? Local change in electrical field gradient ? Local hot-rocks and other magnetic stuff ? Power lines ? Pipes underground ?

And many others...

So, as you can see there are too many variables...

I suggest you stabilize device as best as you can before make other attempts... at least will be sure it's not slowly drifting.

Kind regards,
Max

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi .
Before 5 days i went to detect old buried objects with my LRL. Basically i wanted to find a object who will give me a strong signal so to have it as reference when i make every modification on my LRLs. But no one signal.
After it i went to a farm where there are a lot of old broken buried ceramics.I believed on this "archaiology" place to find a good signal. I found another problem. A lot of signals but not so strong. I received at least 30 different signals, but when my LRL beep 3...4 times then i must waited 0.5 ... 1 minute so to receive the signal again. The time was 21:00 and temperature 23o celsius. So i want your opinion ... was the small signal from the alone small objects deep in the ground or the signal was from ceramics, because more of the old ceramics have iron oxides who metal detectors detect them.

What exactly is your LRL supposed to detect in the first place? Ions, precious metals, any metals....what?

[ivconic]

Hi .
Before 5 days i went to detect old buried objects with my LRL. Basically i wanted to find a object who will give me a strong signal so to have it as reference when i make every modification on my LRLs. But no one signal.
After it i went to a farm where there are a lot of old broken buried ceramics.I believed on this "archaiology" place to find a good signal. I found another problem. A lot of signals but not so strong. I received at least 30 different signals, but when my LRL beep 3...4 times then i must waited 0.5 ... 1 minute so to receive the signal again. The time was 21:00 and temperature 23o celsius. So i want your opinion ... was the small signal from the alone small objects deep in the ground or the signal was from ceramics, because more of the old ceramics have iron oxides who metal detectors detect them.

Are you sure those were signals at all?
Or just random beeps caused by instabillity and various inteferences and most probably constant small changes in static field arround you...
Exactly on that i was pointed many times in the past; with those devices man simply can not be sure about any "detection". Random beeps all arround. How to be sure? How to be accurate? Are there any real detections occurs at all?

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Jim

What exactly is your LRL supposed to detect in the first place? Ions, precious metals, any metals....what?

I have the same question?

If metals of some type, why worry about a field test until a bench test is completed, without so many outside factors involved. This way you could better identify the stability of the device (or lack thereof).

If ions, again find some way to duplicate the ion source(?) so that you can isolate your stability issues prior to taking the thing out in the field.

By always doing your testing where there are a multitude of variables, that you have no control over, you will be constantly "chasing your tail" (forever). Results will come on some days, and not on others, and you will never know what to change next in order to improve your idea, and make the results more consistent.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Jim

What exactly is your LRL supposed to detect in the first place? Ions, precious metals, any metals....what?

My detector detects the electrostatic fields.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi,
many things are possible same time.

If device is not stable can run on instability like cycles of also several minutes and thus gives you the appearance it's detecting something.... where it isn't really, and it's just kinda of sinusoidal drift... tunes and detunes its own.

If device detects "something" like could be some signal from e.g. targets (but which signal I don't know) then the presence of ceramics could be a problem, we know sensitive MDs detect ceramics (fired and not in some cases) very well... me , myself own device that detects bricks like cigarette packet in size at about 50cm range.... that's huge detection for something not conductive!

Maybe the ceramics interfere and give extra signals (but which signals ?) ?

Or the farm land is full e.g. of foil pieces and other trash (usually farm land is not so clean today... people e.g. bring their meal around... make picnics and the like... then something always go into soil... mix with it... oxidate etc etc)
Think at e.g. how many times you lose screws... bolts... farm machines pieces.... how many horseshoes... how many piece of rusty fence wires etc etc big "universe" many times... Clean farm land do not exist anymore to my experience.

Then could be other stuff... like plants interfere with detection ... e.g. some small bush, or sharp tipped plants... these can do wrong on MDs and thus you can make assumptions them could give you lot of false signals even of LRL thing (if we suppose it works).

What else ? Local change in electrical field gradient ? Local hot-rocks and other magnetic stuff ? Power lines ? Pipes underground ?

And many others...

So, as you can see there are too many variables...

I suggest you stabilize device as best as you can before make other attempts... at least will be sure it's not slowly drifting.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max. The only that i can say is that the detector is very stable. When at a point i take 3 or 4 beeps, and after 1 minute other 3 beeps and again and again etc.... then beeps are not false. Problem is that the beeps do not continue as at Portugal so i don't know where exactly to dig and take out the objects (no necessary metallic).

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Hi .
Before 5 days i went to detect old buried objects with my LRL. Basically i wanted to find a object who will give me a strong signal so to have it as reference when i make every modification on my LRLs. But no one signal.
After it i went to a farm where there are a lot of old broken buried ceramics.I believed on this "archaiology" place to find a good signal. I found another problem. A lot of signals but not so strong. I received at least 30 different signals, but when my LRL beep 3...4 times then i must waited 0.5 ... 1 minute so to receive the signal again. The time was 21:00 and temperature 23o celsius. So i want your opinion ... was the small signal from the alone small objects deep in the ground or the signal was from ceramics, because more of the old ceramics have iron oxides who metal detectors detect them.

Are you sure those were signals at all?
Or just random beeps caused by instabillity and various inteferences and most probably constant small changes in static field arround you...
Exactly on that i was pointed many times in the past; with those devices man simply can not be sure about any "detection". Random beeps all arround. How to be sure? How to be accurate? Are there any real detections occurs at all?

Hi Ivica.
Why at other place or at other farm the detector don't give me any beep??? Only in this farm with the ceramics, the detector gives me random beeps. I have long time now that i am looking for a good signal near at my farm but not yet. Of course i saw this some times yet. Also there are places with burried coins so i know there when i take signal (not always) that it is from coins. But here my question is...... is the signal from ceramics??
Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Theseus

I have the same question?

If metals of some type, why worry about a field test until a bench test is completed, without so many outside factors involved. This way you could better identify the stability of the device (or lack thereof).

If ions, again find some way to duplicate the ion source(?) so that you can isolate your stability issues prior to taking the thing out in the field.

By always doing your testing where there are a multitude of variables, that you have no control over, you will be constantly "chasing your tail" (forever). Results will come on some days, and not on others, and you will never know what to change next in order to improve your idea, and make the results more consistent.

Hi Theseus.
I was believing the same with you, but i changed opinion when i saw at Portugal so strong and constant signal at 4 places. And as Morgan told me he always detect the objects, the only difference from one day to other is the distance, nothing else.

Regards

[ivconic]

Ok i see. Same thing with Zahori - at some places it beeps and at some places it not beeps. Static fields changes - that's all.
I took Zahori at some very rich sites (full with ceramic and coins) and i got no beeps at all. Than i took it at other place (no ceramic and no coins) and it is beeping like crazy! Sometimes it can produce beeps at sites rich with burried items and sometimes it can not produce beeps at "clean" sites. No rule at all (related to buried items).
So...beeps are not related to ceramic and burried items in most of the cases. Beeps at simillar devices are related to certain chages in local static field...caused by any possible reason, we can just anticipate which one.
Usually input impendance at those frontends is very high - pretty sensitive mostly on all kind of static changes. That's very well known issue at high impendance inputs. Devices like Zahori and simillars are based on that principle and therefore suffers much from instabillity and are liable to collect surrounding interferences,hums etc..etc..
I just took Zahori as example. But it is illustrative enough to present whole gamma of simillar devices..

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi Theseus.
I was believing the same with you, but i changed opinion when i saw at Portugal so strong and constant signal at 4 places. And as Morgan told me he always detect the objects, the only difference from one day to other is the distance, nothing else.

Regards

If your detector is detecting electrostatic fields (rather than ionic); those are even easier to produce in lab environment.

Also, I'm not familiar with your weather patterns there. Do you get thunder and lightening storms, such as we do here in the US?

Have you ever taken your device and tried to detect "long distance" electrostatic charged clouds. These should exhibit a much larger charge than what might be found around buried precious metals. Just wondering...

[Theseus]

If the "strange phenomenon" is really the detection of electrostatic fields, than perhaps the following would be simple way to verify and detect these fields.

[Esteban]

Hi Geo,

If your pistol detector is OK, the detection of a coin has normal continuity, even if this coin is 1 meter depth. There are a point with more continuity with the distance and position. For example, at 1.90 m has continuity, but if you move near target detection stops, but at more distance (15 m) maybe beeps is not very consistent, but you "know the place" of the distortion.

[WM6]

Maybe you spit on the soil in between and cause huge changes in humidity?

[Max]

Originally Posted by WM6

Maybe you spit on the soil in between and cause huge changes in humidity?

Or pi$$ed.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by WM6

Maybe you spit on the soil in between and cause huge changes in humidity?

I know specialists in spit all the time... but by drunk... and isn't my case.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by WM6

Maybe you spit on the soil in between and cause huge changes in humidity?

If it is for me.... i never have affront you .

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Hi Geo,

If your pistol detector is OK, the detection of a coin has normal continuity, even if this coin is 1 meter depth. There are a point with more continuity with the distance and position. For example, at 1.90 m has continuity, but if you move near target detection stops, but at more distance (15 m) maybe beeps is not very consistent, but you "know the place" of the distortion.

Thanks Esteban I try to find this point

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Ok i see. Same thing with Zahori - at some places it beeps and at some places it not beeps. Static fields changes - that's all.
I took Zahori at some very rich sites (full with ceramic and coins) and i got no beeps at all. Than i took it at other place (no ceramic and no coins) and it is beeping like crazy! Sometimes it can produce beeps at sites rich with burried items and sometimes it can not produce beeps at "clean" sites. No rule at all (related to buried items).
So...beeps are not related to ceramic and burried items in most of the cases. Beeps at simillar devices are related to certain chages in local static field...caused by any possible reason, we can just anticipate which one.
Usually input impendance at those frontends is very high - pretty sensitive mostly on all kind of static changes. That's very well known issue at high impendance inputs. Devices like Zahori and simillars are based on that principle and therefore suffers much from instabillity and are liable to collect surrounding interferences,hums etc..etc..
I just took Zahori as example. But it is illustrative enough to present whole gamma of simillar devices..

Hi. My device is not the Zahori. For me problems may be the low sensitivity so i have not constant beeps. But at Portugal why i had constant beeps at two places???? At second place i had signal from 5...7 meters at least. Really i don't know....
I continue......

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Theseus

If the "strange phenomenon" is really the detection of electrostatic fields, than perhaps the following would be simple way to verify and detect these fields.

Theseus,Thank you.
Please can you tell me about probe bacause i don't understand (Oooo my English )

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Theseus

If your detector is detecting electrostatic fields (rather than ionic); those are even easier to produce in lab environment.

Also, I'm not familiar with your weather patterns there. Do you get thunder and lightening storms, such as we do here in the US?
No....

Have you ever taken your device and tried to detect "long distance" electrostatic charged clouds. Yes once.
These should exhibit a much larger charge than what might be found around buried precious metals. Just wondering...
Yes, I was speaking at phone with a friend 150Km far, and at every thunter near his city i had beeps.

Regards

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Geo

Yes, I was speaking at phone with a friend 150Km far, and at every thunter near his city i had beeps.

Geo, this is only indirectly related to thunder in yours friend city. You have to measure air moisture, atmospheric static charge and pressure in your city, which was changed the same way as in your friend location. This is reason not thunder 150 km away. 150 km mean nothing for weather (mentioned atmospheric phenomenon which was practically the same) .

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I know specialists in spit all the time... but by drunk... and isn't my case.

Wanna be a spittin' champion? Use lemon!
Wanna know what's really bad? To lick lemon infront of the bugler!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi. My device is not the Zahori. For me problems may be the low sensitivity so i have not constant beeps. But at Portugal why i had constant beeps at two places???? At second place i had signal from 5...7 meters at least. Really i don't know....
I continue......

Hi Geo,
It seems to me the difference is not from your detector. What has changed is the location you are using it. The first difference I see is the ground is not the same in Portugal as where you test it now. This means maybe there is different soil chemistry, and different collections of things buried in the soil. All soil is not the same. Geologists know this, and make allowances when making tests with their instruments to measure things in the soil. Also all the other things that others posted can make a change in your detector beeping, like strength of atmospheric charge or earth magnetic field differences, humidity, maybe broadcast waves in the air if your detector uses coils. It is difficult to determine with so many variables. And for certain the Portugal soil does not have the same chemicals and mineralization as the soil you search now, and not many pieces of clay pottery. These things can even make hard to find treasure with conventional detectors.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Geo

My detector detects the electrostatic fields.

Thanks for your reply.

I am evidently in the dark in regards to this type of machine. Do buried coins (gold and silver) generate an electrostatic field, and this unit you query about is supposed to detect said field?

Thanks again, Jim