Prof. Dr. Friedrich Balck's paper on dowsing

[Seden]

Gentlemen,

I think you will find this paper from Germany (in English) most interesting. This is in the "No Spin Zone" if you will. Thesus,WM6,SWR Jim, pull up a chair and read this.

Here:
http://www2.pe.tu-clausthal.de/agbal...ersicht-en.pdf

Randy

[ivconic]

Man is 100% crackpot, it is so obvious!
Educated crackpot with rich term dictionary, nothing else.
I have seen simillar people many times.
My cousin is genius in Physics - Dr. of Physics. Yet...after many years of hard learning, finally he became total crackpot. Usuall things...no wonder.
From genius to crackpot....only one step.
Even great Nikola Tesla (my compatriot - i am very proud on that fact) also turned to a huge crackpot in his late years...
Dont be amazed with simillar publications, internet is full with simillar..
Cheers!

[ivconic]

Ok...
What we can se on this picture?
I'll tell you what i see;
i see yoyo device and nothing else. This is same device as we already seen on these forums many times in the past...
Generator..rods....cosmic waves....frequencies...etc...etc...
C'mon! Get real!

[Theseus]

Thanks for the link, Randy.

Appears to be a new rehash of some old ideas with a little twist here and there. Don't get fooled or overwhelmed by the fact the author has Ph.D credentials. That has nothing to do with adding real credibility to the paper and/or results. Keep in mind, there have been Ph.D's, scientists and especially Patent Lawyers who have become anamored with and fooled by the ideomotor effect.

Real credibility would consist of double-blind testing involving a closely controlled test protocol and substantiated by accredited third-parties.

[Jim]

Wow!

That's about all I can say

[Tinkerer]

Dowsing..... a nice subject. Anybody can come up with a crackpot idea without any proof and anybody can contest it without understanding a thing.
Blaba here and blabla there.

But, WHAT IF??????

What if there is something there, that science can not pin down yet?

Humans are just animals. If one animal can do something, then humans should be able to to the same or at least understand what the process is that lets an animal do "the thing".

Give this some thought.

Migrating birds or migrating whales, or migrating salmon, or migrating eels, or turtles, they and many other creatures find their way thousands of miles to the place they were born.
How do they do it.
What are the sensors that give them the direction?
Can we reproduce this kind of sensor?

Tinkerer

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by Tinkerer

Dowsing..... a nice subject. Anybody can come up with a crackpot idea without any proof and anybody can contest it without understanding a thing.
Blaba here and blabla there.

But, WHAT IF??????

What if there is something there, that science can not pin down yet?

Humans are just animals. If one animal can do something, then humans should be able to to the same or at least understand what the process is that lets an animal do "the thing".

Give this some thought.

Migrating birds or migrating whales, or migrating salmon, or migrating eels, or turtles, they and many other creatures find their way thousands of miles to the place they were born.
How do they do it.
What are the sensors that give them the direction?
Can we reproduce this kind of sensor?

Tinkerer

Good points, i agree!
I pointed on stunded human senses in the past. Only possible way i can explain certain and pretty rare dowser's success on the field is to tie up those to sudden awoke of some stunded sense.
Real success would be if we could establish proper methods to purposelly awake wanted sense when we need it, for some purpose.
Pitty we can't. It comes and goes randomly. I also experienced (like everyone else here, i suppose) few times in my life certain state of ultimate awakeness of some senses. But it came from nowhere, lasted shortly and went who knows where.... So...i am not badgering myself with thinking to much on that
subject. Something i can not "call" to me when i need it - i dont need it at all...

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Tinkerer

Give this some thought.

Migrating birds or migrating whales, or migrating salmon, or migrating eels, or turtles, they and many other creatures find their way thousands of miles to the place they were born.
How do they do it.
What are the sensors that give them the direction?
Can we reproduce this kind of sensor?

Tinkerer

All good points. From what I've read, it appears there is some sort of inborn homing or direction-finding mechanism within their particular physiological make-up. Perhaps humans have it as well, but it is dormant.

But if humans are animals, and by association, they have the same capabilities; why can't we always return directly to our vehicles in a large crowded WalMart parking lot?

Gives one cause to wonder........

Perhaps, instead of developing more man-made secret circuits/devices to locate long-time-buried gold and treasure - it might be more lucrative to develop a way to train ordinary carrier pigeons to utilize their inborn (and already developed) senses to fly towards and identify buried riches.

This idea would come with some hurdles to overcome.

Once the (trained) pigeon flew out of sight, there would be the problem of locating the pigeon, but supposedly there could be a tiny tracking device banded to the pigeon's leg, and we could utilize standard radio direction finding techniques to aaa..... er..... home in on the homing pigeon.

[Seden]

All good comments guy's thanks!

Randy

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Theseus

But if humans are animals, and by association, they have the same capabilities; why can't we always return directly to our vehicles in a large crowded WalMart parking lot?

Would it help to use Dell's Omnitron X-Scan with a small sample of your car in the chamber to quickly locate your car?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Tinkerer]

Originally Posted by Theseus

All good points. From what I've read, it appears there is some sort of inborn homing or direction-finding mechanism within their particular physiological make-up. Perhaps humans have it as well, but it is dormant.

But if humans are animals, and by association, they have the same capabilities; why can't we always return directly to our vehicles in a large crowded WalMart parking lot?

Gives one cause to wonder........

Perhaps, instead of developing more man-made secret circuits/devices to locate long-time-buried gold and treasure - it might be more lucrative to develop a way to train ordinary carrier pigeons to utilize their inborn (and already developed) senses to fly towards and identify buried riches.

This idea would come with some hurdles to overcome.

Once the (trained) pigeon flew out of sight, there would be the problem of locating the pigeon, but supposedly there could be a tiny tracking device banded to the pigeon's leg, and we could utilize standard radio direction finding techniques to aaa..... er..... home in on the homing pigeon.

Theseus,

now you got me hooked on the Remote Sensing forum. I wanted to avoid that, considering it a waste of time.
Together with Ivconic, you have reminded me what dowsing is all about.
The genuine dowsing not crackpot and ripoff stuff.
Genuine dowsing goes into the same category as Alchemy or the search of the Holy Grail or Zen.
It is a method of mental control and development.
So was Alchemy. Not the conversion of lead into gold was the goal, but the mental discipline, striving for perfection or the Zen of the eastern civilizations.

Human beings are capable of incredible feats. I always admired musicians in their art, specially since I was always totally useless in that sense.
But why are these people so good at it? Because they spend most of the time training and perfecting their art.

The moral of the story?

To find the buried riches is not the goal. The goal is to master the art.

Tinkerer

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Seden

All good comments guy's thanks!

Randy

Gentleman, don't stay contemplative stunned with animal world.

Here you are solution for animal gold finder.

Treasure Hunting by trained dogs or pigs as we can saw in Truffle Hunting.

Look here:

http://www.trufles.com/

http://www.poodlehistory.org/PFINDTRUFFLES.HTM

[Fred]

I don´t understand how one can try to scientifically prove a concept that has not been scientilly demonstrated ?

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Fred

I don´t understand how one can try to scientifically prove a concept that has not been scientilly demonstrated ?

You know, we are not Simpsons in common, only in small groups.

[FrankMD]

http://74.125.113.132/translate_c?hl...61zqCzHQtNb50g

[hung]

Originally Posted by FrankMD

http://74.125.113.132/translate_c?hl...61zqCzHQtNb50g

Hi Frank,

Actually Dr. Balck performs some experiments and tests to investigate probable scenarios in which dowsing is affected.

Since dowsing is a combination of several wave propagation type patterns that manifest accordingly to the operator's skill and aproach, materials used, substances, and reflective and absorptive types of objects existing in the particular location, etc. Results will have a vast amount of variables.
His experiments with materials are a few examples of how diferent type of wave emissions are affected as with aluminum foils (EM) and special cloths and sinthetic materials (ionic/electrostatic).

I think his claim that 'vibrations in the air by sounds can affect propagation of waves' is a little exagerated. It depends on wich type of wave he referes to and dowsing as I postulate, it's not a manifestation of one wave type only but of many.
The aluminum sheet case is notorious among dowsers being that placed on the floor of even around the dowser's head is said to block dowsing detection. While this may affect detection of pure RF emanations, it does not affect other type of waves. So much so that there are dowsers who fail when with aluminum and others who seem unaffected by it, clearing demonstrating the other type of wave propagations take charge such as scalar propagations and potentials.
The RT Examiner altough not exactly a dowsing device, but based on most of its principles, is not blocked by aluminum at all being even capable if tuned for a particular substance, to penetrate an iron or steel box if this particular substance is found inside. This is also true for dowsing and in this aproach, other types of waves are involved. These are of scalar nature other than ordinary Hertzian wave types which would never be able to get inside of that box.

I warn you that this forum is not the best place to discuss such matters as there are few or no dowsers here and due to this fact skeptcism rules. Actually many dowsers avoid this forum as I came to know.
I will PM you suggesting a good forum to discuss these matters with dowsers if you wish.

Best regards.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by hung

Hi Frank,
I warn you that this forum is not the best place to discuss such matters as there are few or no dowsers here and due to this fact skeptcism rules. Actually many dowsers avoid this forum as I came to know.
I will PM you suggesting a good forum to discuss these matters with dowsers if you wish.

Best regards.

Yeah, Frank, be careful. If you have an aversion to common sense, logic, basic scientific facts and the truth about dowsing, this is probably not a good forum to frequent.

[Carl-NC]

Interesting slides, but I agree that he is putting the cart before the horse; postulating a theory without having effectively demonstrated the effect. I didn't see anything that resembled data from a repeated double-blind test, just some experiments that could easily produce any number of different results.

An interesting example is the plot on p.7, "Tilt of the hand as a function of location." Look closely at the data. What else could cause that besides what the author is claiming?

Another example is the experiment on p.16: "The unidentified waves with the known interactions should provide a measurable effect." Well do they or don't they? Why not give a complete and precise experimental setup (including all necessary circuitry) and show measured results? Something that anyone else can precisely duplicate. I can't duplicate what is shown, because nothing is shown.

What we are given are highly speculative claims based on "labwork so mesmerizingly awful that it is not even wrong."

- Carl

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

I will PM you suggesting a good forum to discuss these matters with dowsers if you wish.

That would probably be the best solution.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by WM6

Gentleman, don't stay contemplative stunned with animal world.

Here you are solution for animal gold finder.

Treasure Hunting by trained dogs or pigs as we can saw in Truffle Hunting.

Look here:

http://www.trufles.com/

http://www.poodlehistory.org/PFINDTRUFFLES.HTM

Ahh, that explains why pirates never buried their gold along with truffles.