Sam Scafferi's experience

[Esteban]

1999. Found this searching the word "sun": Chemical Action around Metal in the Soil

"... the detector reading is much weaker than the original one, now that the surrounding soil has been disturbed. I have observed this phenomenon on many occasions."

"To me this suggests that there is some type of “chemical action”, which takes place around a long-time buried coin (or any metal) when placed in the soil."

"A few years back, Dr. Manuel Ortiz called this “field” F.E.R.F. I believe this was his term, which stood for Free Electron Radiation Field."

"Is radiation from the Sun involved?"

MY BIG YES TO THE LAST QUESTION.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...&highlight=sun

[Qiaozhi]

This will probably open "a can of worms", but here it is anyway ->
http://treasurenow.com/html/MLL.html

It mentions "FERF's, or Free Electron Radiation Fields".

[Dell Winders]

Forget the Fitzgerald, hype. This is no can of worms you hope to open. The "Mother Lode Locator" is simply a Ground Resistance meter.Nothing more.

From Florida, I had mentally dowsed the location of an iron lined vault in Alabama, possibly containing Kegs of Gold, and an Iron cannon.

I went to Alabama, and confirmed the location with an MFD, and used it to trace out the size & shape of a cannon, and the direction it was pointing, at appx. 40 feet deep. (there were 8 witnesses)

We set up the distance, and locations of the MLL ground probes accordingly.

The results of the MLL data of this location, and a vault & tunnels in Kentucky, are posted here. Del

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,24475.0.html

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Forget the Fitzgerald, hype. This is no can of worms you hope to open. The "Mother Lode Locator" is simply a Ground Resistance meter.Nothing more.

From Florida, I had mentally dowsed the location of an iron lined vault in Alabama, possibly containing Kegs of Gold, and an Iron cannon.

I went to Alabama, and confirmed the location with an MFD, and used it to trace out the size & shape of a cannon, and the direction it was pointing, at appx. 40 feet deep. (there were 8 witnesses)

We set up the distance, and locations of the MLL ground probes accordingly.

The results of the MLL data of this location, and a vault & tunnels in Kentucky, are posted here. Del

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,24475.0.html

Mentally dowsed.....??? Confirmed the location with an MFD....??? It all makes a great story and interesting reading, but what exactly did you actually UNEARTH???

You know..... recovered treasure items you can place on display! Show pictures of the vaults and tunnels, etc., etc.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Forget the Fitzgerald, hype. This is no can of worms you hope to open. The "Mother Lode Locator" is simply a Ground Resistance meter.Nothing more.

Actually I was not hoping to open "a can of worms", but I see that it did manage to bring you out of hiding.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

From Florida, I had mentally dowsed the location of an iron lined vault in Alabama, possibly containing Kegs of Gold, and an Iron cannon.

I went to Alabama, and confirmed the location with an MFD, and used it to trace out the size & shape of a cannon, and the direction it was pointing, at appx. 40 feet deep. (there were 8 witnesses)

So let's see if we understand this correctly:

You sat at your kitchen table (or it might have been the dining, coffee, or occasional table - doesn't really matter which) and you stared at either a photograph or map of the location. You then guessed (sorry ... mentally dowsed) the location of some treasure at a depth of 40 feet.

You then traveled to the site and "confirmed" your guess by using an MFD, which is basically an electronically-enhanced dowsing rod. In other words, you used a non-working device to confirm some previous guesswork.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

We set up the distance, and locations of the MLL ground probes accordingly.

The results of the MLL data of this location, and a vault & tunnels in Kentucky, are posted here. Del

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,24475.0.html

The reality is that nothing was physically recovered from the site, and as a result there is no proof that the treasure actually exists.

You have said yourself - and I quote: "The information added to this image is Dowsed information, and may not be true, or accurate. Dell"

The End.

[Fred]

The MFD being an ideomotor effect detector,map dowsing must work all the time, as you are convinced the treasure exists...
This is total nonsense.

[J_Player]

What...!!!
You confirmed a treasure without recovering it?
Forgive me if I am branded as one of "Carl's skeptic cult". But doesn't common sense suggest that finding treasure is confirmed when you lift it out of the ground and put it into a museum for people to see? Or at least take some photos of the gold, diamonds, cannon, or whatever else you think you found to confirm you really found some treasure?

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

1999. Found this searching the word "sun": Chemical Action around Metal in the Soil

"... the detector reading is much weaker than the original one, now that the surrounding soil has been disturbed. I have observed this phenomenon on many occasions."

"To me this suggests that there is some type of “chemical action”, which takes place around a long-time buried coin (or any metal) when placed in the soil."

"A few years back, Dr. Manuel Ortiz called this “field” F.E.R.F. I believe this was his term, which stood for Free Electron Radiation Field."

"Is radiation from the Sun involved?"

MY BIG YES TO THE LAST QUESTION.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...&highlight=sun

Hi Esteban,
Sam asked several questions. He started by describing a phenomenon which most metal detectorists call "halo" effect that happens on rare occasions when they find old buried coins or other metals. Then he stated he understood how most common metals could corrode to produce some chemical action in the soil over a period of time. He was asking if anyone had verifiable information on how noble metals like gold could produce a similar effect when he asked a number of questions.
Here is his quote that explains his questions:

Originally Posted by Sam Scafferi

I’m familiar with, and have studied, the general corrosion processes, which take place in the soil around refined (Iron and Steel) metals and the Less Noble metals.

My questions are in regards to the More Noble Metals, when they are situated in the soil. Metal such as Gold, Silver and even Copper. I’d like to find a logical, perhaps chemical or electrochemical explanation for what happens around Noble Metals in the soil. What processes are involved? Are they electrical in nature, or chemical, or perhaps electrochemical? Is it a migration of ions, or electrons (or neither or both)? Is radiation from the Sun involved? Do other Less Noble Metals in the same vicinity play a part in the process? What part does soil conductivity and soil moisture play in this action?

If anyone knows of any sources of information, I would appreciate any info or recommendations of book references (or the like) that I might find in a university library.

I have detailed all the answers to Sam's questions in many previous post I made showing how scientists observed even nobel metals corroding and metal ions migrating upward to the surface of the soil. I made many posts explaining how soil conductivity is influenced by the presence of the metal ions and other chemical activity, as well as how the soil moisture plays a part in drawing the metal ions up through capillary action caused by the rain cycles.

But I never did post anything about the influence of the sun. The sun's influence is seen mostly at the surface of the soil and maybe up to 30 cm deep. This is where the migrating metal ions see a thermal anomaly that is not seen at lower depths. If you recall, the scientists who measured the migration of the metal ions also observed that these ions were no longer ions when they arrived at a depth between 10 to 30 cm below the surface. The metal ions become bound with other constituents of the soil at this depth, to become salts or other compounds that are not ions. After the metal ions are bound as compounds, they may eventually be moved laterally by mechanical forces such as erosion or other means.

But what part does the sun play in this? I cannot give a scientifically proven answer, but, from what we know about the sun, it produces heat in the top layers of the soil, and it puts UV rays on the surface which are capable of making molecular changes to substances that it strikes. My thinking is the UV modified molecules on the surface are carried down during rain cycles maybe 10-30cm below the surface where they combine with some of the ions which have been drawn up during the soil-drying process.

For most non-noble metals, there are soil constituents that can combine to form salts. But for gold, the known chemicals that dissolved it are cyanide and sulfur complexes from organic acids that were produced by bacteria. The gold ions are suspended in these sulfur complexes until they reach close to the surface, where I would speculate that the sulfur complex breaks down and combines with other organic materials that have had their molecules re-arranged by solar UV, and leached into the soil. As these sulfur complexes are broken down and re-combined as salts near the surface, the gold ions are released as free ions, which will combine most readily with other gold ions, to form a gold lattice, or a tiny grain of micro-gold. This tiny micro-gold grain may eventually combine with other gold ions to become a tiny visible gold particle or not. But once it is stable, it is no longer an ion, and may mix into the soil where it stays, or where it may be eroded away.

This mechanism is only my guess. I have not found time to research scientific backing for this. But if it happens to be correct, then it also implies that there is an anomaly near the surface where the sun is active, and is indirectly causing the metal ions to become salts or other molecules. The anomaly I am talking about is the process of metal ions combining with other ions to form a compound. This anomaly happens at the top of the column of migrating metal ions when they become molecules, not to the sides of the column. The action of an ion joining another ion to become a molecule involves a microscopic transfer of energy. Don't know what this means, but it is a fact observed in basic chemistry classes.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Tinkerer]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Esteban,
Sam asked several questions. He started by describing a phenomenon which most metal detectorists call "halo" effect that happens on rare occasions when they find old buried coins or other metals. Then he stated he understood how most common metals could corrode to produce some chemical action in the soil over a period of time. He was asking if anyone had verifiable information on how noble metals like gold could produce a similar effect when he asked a number of questions.
Here is his quote that explains his questions:
I have detailed all the answers to Sam's questions in many previous post I made showing how scientists observed even nobel metals corroding and metal ions migrating upward to the surface of the soil. I made many posts explaining how soil conductivity is influenced by the presence of the metal ions and other chemical activity, as well as how the soil moisture plays a part in drawing the metal ions up through capillary action caused by the rain cycles.

But I never did post anything about the influence of the sun. The sun's influence is seen mostly at the surface of the soil and maybe up to 30 cm deep. This is where the migrating metal ions see a thermal anomaly that is not seen at lower depths. If you recall, the scientists who measured the migration of the metal ions also observed that these ions were no longer ions when they arrived at a depth between 10 to 30 cm below the surface. The metal ions become bound with other constituents of the soil at this depth, to become salts or other compounds that are not ions. After the metal ions are bound as compounds, they may eventually be moved laterally by mechanical forces such as erosion or other means.

But what part does the sun play in this? I cannot give a scientifically proven answer, but, from what we know about the sun, it produces heat in the top layers of the soil, and it puts UV rays on the surface which are capable of making molecular changes to substances that it strikes. My thinking is the UV modified molecules on the surface are carried down during rain cycles maybe 10-30cm below the surface where they combine with some of the ions which have been drawn up during the soil-drying process.

For most non-noble metals, there are soil constituents that can combine to form salts. But for gold, the known chemicals that dissolved it are cyanide and sulfur complexes from organic acids that were produced by bacteria. The gold ions are suspended in these sulfur complexes until they reach close to the surface, where I would speculate that the sulfur complex breaks down and combines with other organic materials that have had their molecules re-arranged by solar UV, and leached into the soil. As these sulfur complexes are broken down and re-combined as salts near the surface, the gold ions are released as free ions, which will combine most readily with other gold ions, to form a gold lattice, or a tiny grain of micro-gold. This tiny micro-gold grain may eventually combine with other gold ions to become a tiny visible gold particle or not. But once it is stable, it is no longer an ion, and may mix into the soil where it stays, or where it may be eroded away.

This mechanism is only my guess. I have not found time to research scientific backing for this. But if it happens to be correct, then it also implies that there is an anomaly near the surface where the sun is active, and is indirectly causing the metal ions to become salts or other molecules. The anomaly I am talking about is the process of metal ions combining with other ions to form a compound. This anomaly happens at the top of the column of migrating metal ions when they become molecules, not to the sides of the column. The action of an ion joining another ion to become a molecule involves a microscopic transfer of energy. Don't know what this means, but it is a fact observed in basic chemistry classes.

Best wishes,
J_P

J_P,

this is an interesting explanation, however, you forgot the action of oxygen in the upper layers of soil. The sun, by warming the soil certainly has some influence, also the UV radiation, but the most important factor is the oxygen.
I happen to live in a region where all these factors are much enhanced and the results can be readily observed daily.
A few years ago I posted a longish explanation on the "halo effect" and also offered a simple experiment how to repeat the effect.
The causes are electro-chemical.
Look up the list of metals in the galvanic order. There you will see how and why the ions migrate from the low order to the high order.
Now, you know that there is an electric current if ions migrate.
Do some research in this direction.
The migration of salt and calcium in the ground is also very easy to observe. Calcium gets dissolved by acids. Even acid rain does it. Carbonic acid from CO2. The rainwater with the dissolved calcium migrates in the soil, up or down, depends on the amount of free humidity and temperature (sun).
The top layers of the soil contain more oxygen. As the water-calcium solution gets oxygenated, the calcium combines and precipitates. This often happens in caves, where the precipitated calcium forms the stalactites and stalactites.
A similar thing happens with salts. At a certain combination of environmental conditions the salts migrate to the surface and crystallize there.

All the best

Tinkerer

[Max]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Forget the Fitzgerald, hype. This is no can of worms you hope to open. The "Mother Lode Locator" is simply a Ground Resistance meter.Nothing more.

From Florida, I had mentally dowsed the location of an iron lined vault in Alabama, possibly containing Kegs of Gold, and an Iron cannon.

I went to Alabama, and confirmed the location with an MFD, and used it to trace out the size & shape of a cannon, and the direction it was pointing, at appx. 40 feet deep. (there were 8 witnesses)

We set up the distance, and locations of the MLL ground probes accordingly.

The results of the MLL data of this location, and a vault & tunnels in Kentucky, are posted here. Del

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,24475.0.html

With paint roller or without it ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Esteban,
Sam asked several questions. He started by describing a phenomenon which most metal detectorists call "halo" effect that happens on rare occasions when they find old buried coins or other metals. Then he stated he understood how most common metals could corrode to produce some chemical action in the soil over a period of time. He was asking if anyone had verifiable information on how noble metals like gold could produce a similar effect when he asked a number of questions.
Here is his quote that explains his questions:
I have detailed all the answers to Sam's questions in many previous post I made showing how scientists observed even nobel metals corroding and metal ions migrating upward to the surface of the soil. I made many posts explaining how soil conductivity is influenced by the presence of the metal ions and other chemical activity, as well as how the soil moisture plays a part in drawing the metal ions up through capillary action caused by the rain cycles.

But I never did post anything about the influence of the sun. The sun's influence is seen mostly at the surface of the soil and maybe up to 30 cm deep. This is where the migrating metal ions see a thermal anomaly that is not seen at lower depths. If you recall, the scientists who measured the migration of the metal ions also observed that these ions were no longer ions when they arrived at a depth between 10 to 30 cm below the surface. The metal ions become bound with other constituents of the soil at this depth, to become salts or other compounds that are not ions. After the metal ions are bound as compounds, they may eventually be moved laterally by mechanical forces such as erosion or other means.

But what part does the sun play in this? I cannot give a scientifically proven answer, but, from what we know about the sun, it produces heat in the top layers of the soil, and it puts UV rays on the surface which are capable of making molecular changes to substances that it strikes. My thinking is the UV modified molecules on the surface are carried down during rain cycles maybe 10-30cm below the surface where they combine with some of the ions which have been drawn up during the soil-drying process.

For most non-noble metals, there are soil constituents that can combine to form salts. But for gold, the known chemicals that dissolved it are cyanide and sulfur complexes from organic acids that were produced by bacteria. The gold ions are suspended in these sulfur complexes until they reach close to the surface, where I would speculate that the sulfur complex breaks down and combines with other organic materials that have had their molecules re-arranged by solar UV, and leached into the soil. As these sulfur complexes are broken down and re-combined as salts near the surface, the gold ions are released as free ions, which will combine most readily with other gold ions, to form a gold lattice, or a tiny grain of micro-gold. This tiny micro-gold grain may eventually combine with other gold ions to become a tiny visible gold particle or not. But once it is stable, it is no longer an ion, and may mix into the soil where it stays, or where it may be eroded away.

This mechanism is only my guess. I have not found time to research scientific backing for this. But if it happens to be correct, then it also implies that there is an anomaly near the surface where the sun is active, and is indirectly causing the metal ions to become salts or other molecules. The anomaly I am talking about is the process of metal ions combining with other ions to form a compound. This anomaly happens at the top of the column of migrating metal ions when they become molecules, not to the sides of the column. The action of an ion joining another ion to become a molecule involves a microscopic transfer of energy. Don't know what this means, but it is a fact observed in basic chemistry classes.

Best wishes,
J_P

Sometimes I found coins and other objects over the sand, but in hot climate. These metal are "cooking" in the surface, so appears a kind of "emission" because detection is very easy. These metal in the surface present the "phenomenon" or other "phenomenon" unexplained. But pistol detect very well it, sometimes better than other buried for long time.

Now regarding metals buried for long time, the via in wich the Sun helps is similar to the IR beam, I think. The "phenomenon" appears use the infinite rays of Sun as a "way" in wich "travel" the phenomenon, is a "bridge". This I think and I'm almost sure about it.

I built a spiral coil exposed, this is isn't enclosure. Well, with good light of Sun, directly over me and pistol I obtain many times extremely consistent and good signals, no intermitent, in sites with good conductive metals. Now, for the science, how a nude coil can be more sensitive when Sun light is present? The continuous detection only occurs in a critic point 1.40-1.50 m. If you move back or forward beeps are intermitent, but in critic point (not very) has continuity. Appears as a "resonance" point.

OK, during these experiment (I and a friend who saw it) dissapears the detection. What happens? A cloud passed for the place and concealed the Sun. When returned the direct beams of the Sun the detection continued! Other cloud. Detection stops. And when direct beams returned, detection continued.

Regards

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Tinkerer

...Look up the list of metals in the galvanic order. There you will see how and why the ions migrate from the low order to the high order.
Now, you know that there is an electric current if ions migrate.
Do some research in this direction.
The migration of salt and calcium in the ground is also very easy to observe. Calcium gets dissolved by acids. Even acid rain does it. Carbonic acid from CO2. The rainwater with the dissolved calcium migrates in the soil, up or down, depends on the amount of free humidity and temperature (sun).
The top layers of the soil contain more oxygen. As the water-calcium solution gets oxygenated, the calcium combines and precipitates. This often happens in caves, where the precipitated calcium forms the stalactites and stalactites.
A similar thing happens with salts. At a certain combination of environmental conditions the salts migrate to the surface and crystallize there.

Hi Tinkerer,
All of what you say is true in different amounts and in different locations. The order of metals will produce a different voltage depending on which two metals are present in an electrolyte. But we are concerned with the anomaly at the site of a buried metallic gold object. Not just an average section of soil. A "halo" site is considered to be a place where a metal object was buried a long time, and also exhibits electrical and magnetic properties that are much different than non-halo sections of soil. What scientists have measured is that in these sections of soil where long-time buried metals are located, there exists an anomaly in the concentration of metal ions corroded from the long-time buried metal object. They discovered this anomaly is located only in a column of soil above where there is long-time buried metal. Scientists have also measured the effects of bacteria that excrete cyanide and sulfur complexes derived from low molecular weight organic acids. Both of these chemicals act to dissolve the surface of a gold object, and release gold ions from the parent metal into the soil where they are suspended in the sulfur complexes. This is not a theory, but an observation of scientists who measured these chemicals acting in the field. They also observed that these gold Ions did not form in soils where gold-digesting microbes did not exist. Thus we can conclude that buried gold is relatively inert except when in the presence of these cyanide and sulfur complexes. But the scientists also observeed that bacteria producing cyanide and organic acids were found at depths up to 2 miles below the surface of the earth in rock/soil strata that was excavated from gold mines. And that the column of migrating gold ions could be measured from that depth migrating slowly upward to the surface.

The electrical activity of gold ions suspended in the soil is obvious when ions from other chemicals are present. But the upward migration of gold ions is extremely slow, taking years. This is no where near fast enough to produce a current that can support a measurable magnetic field. However, the conductivity of the soil in locations where a concentrated column of metal ions is located is different than the surrounding soil where a high metal ion concentration is not present. When this soil anomaly condition exists, then some secondary effects can come into play that are much larger than the anomaly of metal ion concentrations and upward migration of metal ions. The most powerful and easiest to measure secondary effect is the atmospheric voltage gradient in the air above a long-time buried metal object. You can measure the expected 100V/meter gradient at the "halo" location, and other nearby locations to see the anomaly. There is also a large anomaly in the current that leaks between the air and the soil due to this area of more conductive soil anomaly. These two basic secondary effects influence many other secondary effects, such as anomalies in telluric fields, in the earth's magnetic field, ELF fluctuations, etc. at the surface where the "halo" is located.

Then we can expect some tertiary effects that stem from the secondary effects. For example, the increased atmospheric leakage current that tends to favor the "halo" location of conductive soil will generally be more concentrated following along the conductive soil column downwards until it reaches the buried metal object where the column stops. From this more conductive column in the soil, the leakage current will eventually disperse to the sides where it travels away from the column mingles with natural telluric currents in the ground.
But while this increased leakage current is focused in the more conductive soil of the "halo" column, it will also be acting as a current applied to the ions and electrolyte in the soil, and will tend to cause the same electrical phenomenon that are well known when you apply a current to an electrolyte with suspended ions. In the case of the "halo" area, there is no laboratory controlled electrolyte or ion concentrations, etc. The electrical effects due to atmospheric current movement in the column will be subject to the soil chemistry and moisture content at the "halo" location, as well as the driving atmospheric voltage gradient at the particular time of the day, and season, and solar activity, etc.

While all these physical forces are working to produce strange anomalies in the "halo" area, we also have the capillary action of the rain cycles that move surface materials into the upper layer of the soil, and draw mobile ions and molecules from the deeper soils upward. And we also have the effects of the sun at the surface, conditioning the top 10-30 cm thermally, as well as acting on the molecules of substances at the surface.

It seems like a complex phenomenon to me. Not something as simple as a pair of metal ions showing a generated voltage in an electrolyte. And there are still mysteries to discover about this "halo" phenomenon.

Best wishes,
J_P