IR Lasing Gold

[Seden]

I was reading this article on Nanotechweb.org (Sept.12,2007) entitled "When gold shines even brighter" and thought of Estebans IR Remote sensor. Don't know in any way if there's a relation but heres the link to the article:
http://nanotechweb.org/cws/article/lab/31120
and a quote from it "Excitation of films with the 795 nm fundamental of a Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser produces a strong white luminescence." The films from the quote are gold films. Now when you read it you will notice that there was some tuning involved depending on the thickness I believe but pretty interesting none the less.

Also speaking of IR, I've been following a thread on the Treasurenet Forum under "Techniques" whereby a fellow claims to use a camera with an IR filter to photograph ions on the earths surface at close range where metal has been buried for some time,anyone try this? I went an bought a IR longpass filter and tried photographing an area on my lawn where for the past 11 years I have been dumping my concentrates from placer mining and nada darn thing appeared on the IR picture no matter how I adjusted the settings on the GOOGLE Picassa software.

Comments on either or both?

Randy

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Seden

a quote from it "Excitation of films with the 795 nm fundamental of a Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser produces a strong white luminescence." The films from the quote are gold films. Now when you read it you will notice that there was some tuning involved depending on the thickness I believe but pretty interesting none the less.

Hmmmm...
I see the words "excitation", "gold" and "tuning" all came from the same article. This pretty much proves that gold has a frequency that can be tuned to, and that LRLs will locate the gold at distance. Doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Seden

...a fellow claims to use a camera with an IR filter to photograph ions on the earths surface at close range where metal has been buried for some time,anyone try this? I went an bought a IR longpass filter and tried photographing an area on my lawn where for the past 11 years I have been dumping my concentrates from placer mining and nada darn thing appeared on the IR picture no matter how I adjusted the settings on the GOOGLE Picassa software.

There is a much easier way to obtain instant results using an old digital camera. Digital cameras are sensitive to IR on their image sensors. In order to remove unwanted IR that spoils pictures, manufacturers put an IR filter over the image sensor. You can disassemble an old digital camera and remove the IR filter from the image sensor, then replace it with a visible light filter that passes IR. This has been done by hobbyists, using a visible light filter made from a piece of 35mm negative film that has been developed. They cut a piece of film from the opaque end of the negative roll of film, and use it to stop visible light, while passing IR.
You can see some details on how to do this online: http://geektechnique.org/index.php?id=254

The advantage to using a modified digital camera is you get instant results, and save the cost of filters, developing and printing, This means the digital camera can be used as a view port to look for sources of IR in relation to buried treasures. No need to wait for prints to be made.

P.S. Gold or gold concentrates dumped on the surface of the ground will not generate ions as gold buried beneath the ground. Scientists have discovered that gold ions are formed below the surface where gold-digesting microorganisms live and attack the gold with chemicals. These ions migrate upward through the soil until they reach 10-30cm below the surface. At this point, the ions become bound with the constituents of the soil (gold compounds, as in metallic gold, gold tellurides, or possibly organic compounds in extremely small amounts). Since your tailings never spent much time in contact with soil at the ion-generating depths, I doubt it has any ions around it. In fact, your IR photos proved it does not show an IR anomaly.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

JPlayer,

I didn't remove the filter from my camera so thanks for explaining this. I paid and downloaded a book this englishman wrote on using IR to detect the soil signature of long buried items and the pictures looked very convincing so will have to buy an old camera and take out the IR blocking filter. Yeah I remember now why they did that. Guy's discovered that they could take pictures of clothed women and see beneath them,that was quite a hoot! I guess that would lend new meaning to the phrase "He undresses me with his eyes"

The book is entitled "Discovering Treasure Auras in the Digital Age by David Villanueva" which will set you back $19 to download,but a good read and interesting.

Randy

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Seden

Yeah I remember now why they did that. Guy's discovered that they could take pictures of clothed women and see beneath them...

Why do I get the feeling that a new "off topic" thread is about to start?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

I made this experiment: put an old IR shielded module into a plastic tube. I use at level of soil 30-40 cm and obtain signal of site just other pistols beeps, so the object emits!

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Seden

The book is entitled "Discovering Treasure Auras in the Digital Age by David Villanueva" which will set you back $19 to download,but a good read and interesting.
Randy

Would not it be more productive just to search treasures instead o selling book telling how to do it?

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Fred

Would not it be more productive just to search treasures instead o selling book telling how to do it?

Only if the technique really works.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Fred

Would not it be more productive just to search treasures instead o selling book telling how to do it?

Good point!

Reminds of the LRL/MFD concept and contraptions. If finding treasure with paint roller handles actually worked; wouldn't it be more lucrative to just use them - rather than trying to sell them to the gullible and technically-challenged???

Of course let's not forget... a paint roller handle does find treasure, exactly ONCE! When your money is deposited into the Wallet-miner's bank account.

After that, the paint roller handle is just a piece of scrap metal, having all the same treasure locating possibilities as random digging.

[Seden]

Just as you predicted this thread started going south with the usual crowd. Esteban thank you for sharing that information as you are one of the very few on Geotech that actually designs and builds things where others in their arm chairs just tap away on the keyboard with sarcastic comments.

Gentlemen,what do you think about the article I posted at the start of this thread from Nanotech.org? Did you READ it? Yes,no maybe,gonna do it?

Nice part about it is it's pure science. I really want your input that's why I posted it.

Randy

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Seden

Just as you predicted this thread started going south with the usual crowd. Esteban thank you for sharing that information as you are one of the very few on Geotech that actually designs and builds things where others in their arm chairs just tap away on the keyboard with sarcastic comments.

Gentlemen,what do you think about the article I posted at the start of this thread from Nanotech.org? Did you READ it? Yes,no maybe,gonna do it?

Nice part about it is it's pure science. I really want your input that's why I posted it.

Randy

Randy, thanks. Is more easy create sarcastic comments.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Seden

Gentlemen,what do you think about the article I posted at the start of this thread from Nanotech.org? Did you READ it? Yes,no maybe,gonna do it?

Hi Randy,
I am going to sit in my armchair in front of the computer and watch to see who does something significant. The obvious answer is to get out that old digital camera and disassemble it, then remove the IR filter and replace it with a piece of 35mm exposed film. Then go out and see what you find in the treasure fields.

However, my free time is limited. I have visions of dismantling a digital camera and hearing a "pop" noise when I accidentally short the flash tube capacitor against the cpu in the camera (I already did this on my last attempt). So I sit in my armchair, ever so patiently waiting for some dedicated hobbyist to post their progress on modifying a digital camera and finding interesting IR images in the treasure fields.

P.S. Kudos to Esteban... Marathon designer and builder of experimental electronic treasure machines.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

JPlayer,

I don't have an old digital camera unfortunately. However regarding the nanotech article, I'm going to ebay and see about getting a laser diode. I've seen them at 750+808nm offered and I'd go for the 808nm first. Got to be careful with the budget as my work hours are getting cut starting in a week (10% cut in pay) and the Mrs. has given specific orders to cool it with the VISA. So when I get the laser and experiment with it will let you know how it goes.

Randy

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Seden

Gentlemen,what do you think about the article I posted at the start of this thread from Nanotech.org? Did you READ it? Yes,no maybe,gonna do it?

Hi Randy,
I read that article. It doesn't say much about how this principle can be used in a practical manner for treasure hunting. The immediate use that comes to mind is in biological imaging.

However, the article states that a 795 nm Ti:sapphire laser can cause thin films of gold to produce luminescence. These films are produced by a sol-gel spin-coating technique and subsequent annealing at 300 °C or, alternatively, near-infrared (NIR) femtosecond laser irradiation. It seems to me that these are laboratory conditions that are suitable for studying these effects. After the laboratory testing is done, then I expect practical methods will be developed to use this illuminescence in the field of biology in connection with tissue evaluations. The laboratory conditions mentioned in the article involve the sol-gel spin-coating technique. Is it possible that this spin-coating technique translates into conditions found in the dirt from buried treasuure? Not sure about that. I do not think there will be any significant application in the treasure hunting field.

But I may be wrong about this. Perhaps Esteban or others have already perfected the engineering details to cause a glow on the surface of the soil where gold is buried.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Seden]

Jplayer,

I found an 5mw 808nm laser diode with focus capability for $29.50+shipping so will soon find out. I have raw placer gold as well as some I've refined to experiment with.

And if it doesn't work out-so what? On to the next project.

Randy

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Seden

Just as you predicted this thread started going south with the usual crowd. Esteban thank you for sharing that information as you are one of the very few on Geotech that actually designs and builds things where others in their arm chairs just tap away on the keyboard with sarcastic comments.
Randy

When you place things in an "open forum" that are obviously fringe technology, having nearly zero validity; you can expect to get many different kinds of comments. They might come from folks in armchairs or in my case from a laptop as I fly over the Atlantic.

The point is, if you were only desirous of comments in support of what you posted, perhaps you should consider forums that are moderated more tightly and only cater to the esoteric, occult and fringe technology topics.

[Theseus]

The following excerpted from
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3091230AAwDLZA

"My father used to tell me stories about buried treasures and precolumbian gold. Supossedly, the buried gold would produce a blue flame that could be seen at night, and the country people and farmers would go out at night tracing this flames in order to find the treasure. Is this scientifically possible?

There is a wealth of folklore built up around buried gold and lost treasure and mines. Gold is inert; it does not have any kind of reaction with soil or gases, or anything like that, so any blue glow or flames associated with it would be secondary, and not affiliated directly with the gold. It may have been a productive technique--digging in the vicinity of a blue flame, but it wasn't the gold itself giving off the glow.
On a side note--the idea of a 'blue flame' and gold may also be associated on a spiritual level, as within alchemy.

It isn't true. I am sure they saw swamp gas and assumed there was treasure there kind of like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

well ask yourself this question, did they ever find the gold. if they didn't then the stories are just stories."

[Esteban]

Once, a man told me that in an old militar encampment during Triple Alliance War (1864-1870) –the main Allied encampment, 55,000 man live in the site–, he saw small flames for all parts. He told me that these flames occurs before rains. Seems logic, because atmospheric pressure is more low and liberates the "other phenomenon pressed"... like septic chambers, you smells odors when pressure is in diminution. OK. The site was plagued of good items, bronze, copper, stirrups cover with silver, buttons, thousands and thousands good items. The many small flames he saw are in concordance with all these old items or not? Who knows?

[Seden]

I baited you when I wrote that sentence you quoted I'll be honest.

Look, my point is and has been all along, any crackpot can make negative comments-that's easy. Junior High School kids do it the best.
What lacks integrity is the person making the negative comments not actually building the circuit and testing for themselves thoroughly. In industry it's called doing "due diligence", THEN and only THEN do you have the talking rights and not just being a naysayer which is meaningless unless you've had the education and experience of someone like Carl.

Of all the people who contribute to this forum, Esteban appears to hold the record for building and testing circuits(complete with photos and schematics of his work). He may not show us ALL of his work and why should he? The mans worked for something like 30 years exploring various theories,why should he just hand them to us on a plate especially if people are just going to ridicule him?

So let's get back to the Nanotech website aricle I posted,what strikes you as unscientific about it? Give me your scientific thoughts on lasing gold Theseus, Fred and Qiaozhi.

Randy

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Theseus

There is a wealth of folklore built up around buried gold and lost treasure and mines. Gold is inert; it does not have any kind of reaction with soil or gases, or anything like that,

Being inert doesn´t mean much, something inert in a "non-inert " medium still constitues an anomaly

Originally Posted by Seden

... He may not show us ALL of his work and why should he? The mans worked for something like 30 years exploring various theories,why should he just hand them to us on a plate especially if people are just going to ridicule him?

Precisely because guys in their armchairs are ALSO necessary to devellop a project.No one has all the ideas and knowledge, so (IMO) Esteban posts some information (the less possible, not on a plate) to allow the willing ones to build it or think about it and eventually share what the know or have learnt.


About IR i can´t see how ,even if IR was emitted by gold excited by a laser that would go 50cm deep,could retransmit it again through earth.
But it is easy to try, there is plenty of cheap IR sensitive surveillance cameras to make this test.
I have a good one specially sensitive to IR and very low illumination and a WW2 glass IR filter,i want to try to see through clothes,never tried yet

[Seden]

Fred,

Yeah the depth is not important per se for locating a placer gold deposit, so just illuminating the surface is sufficient. I've got an 808nm laser coming so will see if it works for regular placer gold with it's impurities.

Randy

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Seden

I baited you when I wrote that sentence you quoted I'll be honest.
Randy

Randy, if you've got time to make postings in an antagonistic manner, just to see what you can stir up; then I think you succeeded. You also succeeded in telling me (and others) that you aren't that serious about investigating the fringe technology you quoted.

Incidentally, you are sadly off base (and mistaken) if you think those who make comments about your fringe technology, must first physically build examples of the junk before passing judgment on it. Some things are simply intuitively obvious to the most casual observers, merely as a result of having prior knowledge and experience. To think otherwise, is akin to saying LRL/MFD contraptions are part of rational science and physics and no one should think otherwise until they've physically built one and learned firsthand that it is a total hoax. That would be lunatic thinking.

If you like playing with fringe technology (and other things that go bump in the night), by all means have at it. And, if you like introducing your fringe technology into an "open forum", feel free to do so and understand that you may not get 100% agreement with your ideas.

Of course if you introduced the idea strictly to see if you could stir up the natives.... I think the term for such activity is "troll".

[Seden]

What part of the article from Nanotechweb is Fringe Science? From your reply I don't think you even took the time to read it or you wouldn't be making such a comment. "Chemists and physicists at Humboldt University and Free University of Berlin could show that gold nanoparticles exhibit a bright luminescence with multiphoton near-infrared excitation".
You're insulting these Scientists. When you make statements like that without proof to back it up, people reading this thread will be on the floor laughing at you,is that what you want?

I didn't start this thread to have anything to do with debate, I just wanted to bring this information to the attention of the Forum hoping to have technical input.

Randy

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Seden

What part of the article from Nanotechweb is Fringe Science? From your reply I don't think you even took the time to read it or you wouldn't be making such a comment. "Chemists and physicists at Humboldt University and Free University of Berlin could show that gold nanoparticles exhibit a bright luminescence with multiphoton near-infrared excitation".
You're insulting these Scientists. When you make statements like that without proof to back it up, people reading this thread will be on the floor laughing at you,is that what you want?

I didn't start this thread to have anything to do with debate, I just wanted to bring this information to the attention of the Forum hoping to have technical input.

Randy

You are taking the article completely out of context.

The article states:
"...monodispersed gold nanoparticles can be embedded and stabilized in 350 nm thin silicate-titanate films prepared by a sol-gel spin-coating technique and subsequent annealing at 300 °C or, alternatively, near-infrared (NIR) femtosecond laser irradiation."

This is a laboratory process that shows some potential for biological imaging using NIR and spectroscopy. It has no possible application for treasure hunting. Unless you want to spend the next million years or so meticulously sifting nano-meter by nano-meter through minute soil samples looking for gold nanoparticles.

In addition, the process relies on Raman scattering which, unlike flourescence, is not a resonant effect. This conflicts with the LRL pseudo-science that gold, silver, etc., can be detected by using specific resonant frequencies.

Perhaps you should contact Prof Klaus Rademann and put forward your theory, then we can watch while he rolls around "on the floor laughing at you, is that what you want?".

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Seden

I didn't start this thread to have anything to do with debate, I just wanted to bring this information to the attention of the Forum hoping to have technical input.

Randy

And technical input is what you got, from some of us here. Just because your "comprehension and acceptance filter" was set too high to recognize it as such, is not at all the fault of the contributors.

As Qiaozhi has correctly stated, you are taking the article out of context and you are attempting to find a fringe application where NONE was intended by the original author.

I'm the one that is amused (at you), because I see the similarities to a very old attempt that has been promoted many times on forums of this subject matter. That is... Credibility for the LRL/MFD sham is often promoted by saying it is related to (and works just like) Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging (NMRI) or perhaps Electromagnetic Dispersion Spectroscopy (EDS).

Nothing could be more wrong than implying such an association, when clearly no such association exists.

If the shoe fits; wear it.

[J_Player]

Perhaps there is a way...

This seems like a stretch of the imagination to me, but who knows? Esteban reports stories of a man seeing light in the night.

From what scientists and researchers have discovered, buried gold eventually corrodes, leaving a trail of ions that travel upwards in a column toward the surface of the soil. During the last 10-30cm, the ions combine to become bound with the constituents of the soil, and are no longer ions. For gold, the most abundent soil constituent which it can combine with is itself. This means that unless there is some other unlikely element such as tellurium which can form gold telluride, the gold will precipitate a small particle of gold, which may eventually grow into a lattice that forms a microparticle, or even a visible particle. Somewhere along this journey, the precipitating gold will be in the nano-sized particle range. before it reaches this size, it will not have the properties of luminessence. And after it grows bigger, it will also lose the luminessence properties that were found in the laboratory. These bound micro gold particles that reach the surface are eventually moved away from the location of the treasure by means of erosion and natural forces. But they are replenished as long as there is a trail of ions rising from the buried metal.

So where does this leave us? We are looking for a place at the surface where there is a concentration of nano-sized gold particles in enough abundance to show a visible light. This does not seem too likely to me. What about the specific frequency of laser light needed to excite the gold before it will show luminessence? Is it theoretically possible? According to Esteban, it has been observed by someone who told him he saw it.

Best wishes,
J_P