One more to prove the concept

[hung]

The concept developed by Rangertell has made school.
I refer to the inductively transmit-receive aproach employing an antenna aligning to the signal lines emitted by the EM field of the objects. In this case, there are two of them.

A german manufacturer is using the same method for quite some time and I just thought it was worth to mention it.

In place of the calculator, another signal generator but with fixed frequencies.

Unlike the RT unit which allows parameters to be keyed in to receive the magnetic response of shape, depth etc. of the target, making it more versatile, the Tomdec unit has only fixed frequencies to locate the targets and it's built more properly in my view as it tends to cancel any ideomotor effect which tends to interfere in the detection when the user is unexperienced.

I just see their frequencies are not the most adequate, but as this device has been around for sometime, maybe they have upgraded them.

Nice reading to all.
http://www.mp-detections.com/Siteang.../tomdecv4.php4

[Götz von Berlichingen]

A Quote from the Website, taken out of context :

...The scanning system TOMDEC V4 does not search - as metal detectors do - for the metal...

OK, i believe this part.

hung wrote :

Tomdec unit has only fixed frequencies to locate the targets and it's built more properly in my view as it tends to cancel any ideomotor effect which tends to interfere in the detection when the user is unexperienced.

How does it cancel the ideomotor effect ? Its a Dowsing Rod.
Why would the ideomotor effect interfere in the detection ? The only Way to detect something is through ideomotor effect, if the Target Location is known.

One more to prove the concept

Another expensive LRL... thats not Proof.
If one Scammer makes good Money, another Scammer will steal the Idea and do the same.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Götz von Berlichingen

Another expensive LRL... thats not Proof.
If one Scammer makes good Money, another Scammer will steal the Idea and do the same.

Exactly!

The box of do-nothing electronics may look a bit different, but this device is CLEARLY an ideomotor response driven dowsing contraption. No need to expend the cost of batteries; just leave the power switch off, and the device will respond just as well with the power on or off.

And, you are right.... if one Wallet-miner can make a few bucks selling a snake oil scam, another Wallet-miner will copy the thing and skim what cash they can from the gullible and technically-challenged. This device may look a little different but it is really a copy of the scam R-T Examiner, the Thomas Electroscope and all the other dowsing rod schemes where the scammer has married do-nothing electronics with an ordinary dowsing rod. Really, not unlike the scams perpetrated by Tim Williams (LRL500) and Dell Winders (Pro-4 Freq. Discm.).

Birds of a feather..... flock together.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Götz von Berlichingen

How does it cancel the ideomotor effect ? Its a Dowsing Rod.
Why would the ideomotor effect interfere in the detection ? The only Way to detect something is through ideomotor effect, if the Target Location is known.

Sorry, but your inferences are wrong and miserably shows you do not understand AT ALL what dowsing is and its related aspects.

The RT Examiner and the TOMDEC are not dowsing, as some people erroneously think they are.
The explanation at Tomdec's site and even in RT's site are correct.
It's up to you to believe it or not.
But first you need studying on the subject to prevent yourself from saying things as you did in the quote.

Regards.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

Sorry, but your inferences are wrong and miserably shows you do not understand AT ALL what dowsing is and its related aspects.

The RT Examiner and the TOMDEC are not dowsing, as some people erroneously think they are.
The explanation at Tomdec's site and even in RT's site are correct.
It's up to you to believe it or not.
But first you need studying on the subject to prevent yourself from saying things as you did in the quote.

Regards.

The website states that the device works by radiasthesis (another word for dowsing). Case closed.

[hung]

From the site:

The scanning system TOMDEC V4 does not search - as metal detectors do - for the metal,
(e.g. gold or silver) but for the electromagnetic fields from ionic motions (positive or negative charged particles), which build up around metals. The internationally used term for locating such fields is “human radar“ or radiasthesis.

*********
That is, the 'internationally ACCEPTED term' is radiasthesis.
It does not mean it's employed.
It's just an easier term to explain the aproach to the general reader.
In the underlined explanation resides the true elements involved in the detection.
The TOMDEC differs from the Rangertell as it employs batteries. It means it reaches the same goal of locating the signal lines using electronics whereas the RT uses radionics.

Dowsing is a term many times erroneously used to define a concept where often the said term is not found at all.

There are dowsers who can locate a target with the aid of a 'dowsing rod' a 'dowsing pendulum' or no tool at all. Just his mind.

The RT, TOMDEC, Electroscope, etc. and etc. have nothing to do with dowsing except for a moving antenna. Nothing else.

Case have never been so open for all those years.

[Theseus]

The RT Examiner and the TOMDEC (and like contraptions) most ASSUREDLY are dowsing, and do require an ideomotor response from the operator before they will move, indicate or respond.

No amount of postings "saying" otherwise will change that fact.

A leopard cannot change its spots, no matter how many times you call it by some other name. Sorry!

[Fred]

Originally Posted by hung

The TOMDEC differs from the Rangertell as it employs batteries. It means it reaches the same goal of locating the signal lines using electronics whereas the RT uses radionics.

The RT uses batteries too.Or do you mean the calculator glued on top of it is doing nothing ?

Originally Posted by hung

The RT, TOMDEC, Electroscope, etc. and etc. have nothing to do with dowsing except for a moving antenna. Nothing else.

There is nothing that make move the antenna except the user´s movement, so this must be a dowsing rod.

[hung]

I own (and use) a RT Examiner and can assure you it does not move the antenna by ideomotor.

Ideomotor can indeed be used if the user is not careful enough and will induce falsings in the movement as the device deals with micro currents.

If the calculator is taken off, the device stops working imediately.

If you wish, check my report on the tests I did with the examiner last year. It's somewhere in this forum.

I own this unit for some years now and I KNOW it's not ideomotor that moves the antenna and we all know what it is. It's just that many don't accept it.

Once I asked a famous US dowser who had got one Examiner wheter he thought it was dowsing.
His answer:

'It can be anything, but certainly it's not dowsing'.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Fred

The RT uses batteries too.

That's correct. If this battery is weak, device becomes erratic and sluggish. Mine has solar cells also.

There is nothing that make move the antenna except the user´s movement, so this must be a dowsing rod.

Wrong.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by hung

I own (and use) a RT Examiner and can assure you it does not move the antenna by ideomotor.

Ideomotor can indeed be used if the user is not careful enough and will induce falsings in the movement as the device deals with micro currents.

If the calculator is taken off, the device stops working imediately.

If you wish, check my report on the tests I did with the examiner last year. It's somewhere in this forum.

I own this unit for some years now and I KNOW it's not ideomotor that moves the antenna and we all know what it is. It's just that many don't accept it.

Once I asked a famous US dowser who had got one Examiner wheter he thought it was dowsing.
His answer:

'It can be anything, but certainly it's not dowsing'.

Maybe if you repeat these affirmations sort of like a zen mantra; over and over and over - eventually your mind will accept them as truth.

However, if you are repeating them here in an effort to convince us you are uttering truth; well.... you are wasting your time and bandwidth.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

From the site:

The scanning system TOMDEC V4 does not search - as metal detectors do - for the metal,
(e.g. gold or silver) but for the electromagnetic fields from ionic motions (positive or negative charged particles), which build up around metals. The internationally used term for locating such fields is “human radar“ or radiasthesis.

*********
That is, the 'internationally ACCEPTED term' is radiasthesis.
It does not mean it's employed.
It's just an easier term to explain the aproach to the general reader.
In the underlined explanation resides the true elements involved in the detection.
The TOMDEC differs from the Rangertell as it employs batteries. It means it reaches the same goal of locating the signal lines using electronics whereas the RT uses radionics.

Dowsing is a term many times erroneously used to define a concept where often the said term is not found at all.

There are dowsers who can locate a target with the aid of a 'dowsing rod' a 'dowsing pendulum' or no tool at all. Just his mind.

The RT, TOMDEC, Electroscope, etc. and etc. have nothing to do with dowsing except for a moving antenna. Nothing else.

Case have never been so open for all those years.

The TOMDEC V4 is mounted on swivel handle, so it is clearly a dowsing contraption. Case is still closed, however many times you try lifting the lid.

[hung]

If you think everything mounted on a swivel handle is dowsing, then you probably also believe that acupuncture is voodoo...

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

The RT Examiner and the TOMDEC are not dowsing, as some people erroneously think they are.

I own 2 Examiners. They are dowsing rods. I have personally seen a TOMDEC. It is a dowsing rod.

Originally Posted by hung

I own (and use) a RT Examiner and can assure you it does not move the antenna by ideomotor.

Yes, it does, and it is provable.

Originally Posted by hung

If this battery is weak, device becomes erratic and sluggish. Mine has solar cells also.

In a double blind test, you would not be able to tell whether the calculator was on or off.

Originally Posted by hung

If you think everything mounted on a swivel handle is dowsing, then you probably also believe that acupuncture is voodoo...

There is something called the Duck Criterion.

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hung
If you think everything mounted on a swivel handle is dowsing, then you probably also believe that acupuncture is voodoo...

There is something called the Duck Criterion.

- Carl

Carl's Pseudo Scientific analysis. "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then surely it has to be a duck. Quack! Quack!

Hey Carl, here's a Scientific fact for you, Not all Duck quacks are alike, and not all ducks quack. Dell

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Fred

There is nothing that make move the antenna except the user´s movement, so this must be a dowsing rod.

Originally Posted by hung

Wrong.

So , what makes it to swingle ?

[joecoin]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Carl's Pseudo Scientific analysis. "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then surely it has to be a duck. Quack! Quack!

Hey Carl, here's a Scientific fact for you, Not all Duck quacks are alike, and not all ducks quack. Dell

So does this mean not all dowsers are quacks? Because it certainly appears that most of them are.

Dear Hung,

I do not find the word "ideomotor" anywhere on
http://www.mp-detections.com/Siteang.../tomdecv4.php4

What do you base this part of your statement on: "...it tends to cancel any ideomotor effect..."?

[Steve in MS]

Originally Posted by hung

There are dowsers who can locate a target with the aid of a 'dowsing rod' a 'dowsing pendulum' or no tool at all. Just his mind.

The RT, TOMDEC, Electroscope, etc. and etc. have nothing to do with dowsing except for a moving antenna. Nothing else.

Hmmm, it seems they are dowsing because they depend upon a pivot point for them to work and in fact your last statement has the word "except", clearly meaning they have something in common with dowsing(that is they have mechanical parts) and dowsing uses those unseen forces to move the forked stick, much the way these devices do.

......That part about a dowser who uses no tool, "Just his mind".
Clearly this is the way to go, get rid of the pivots and use
"mind over matter"...and just using your mind would be a lot cheaper.

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by hung

Sorry, but your inferences are wrong and miserably shows you do not understand AT ALL what dowsing is and its related aspects.

The RT Examiner and the TOMDEC are not dowsing, as some people erroneously think they are.
The explanation at Tomdec's site and even in RT's site are correct.
It's up to you to believe it or not.
But first you need studying on the subject to prevent yourself from saying things as you did in the quote.

Regards.

Funny you should say that????????????????????????????????????????????.
I also took a Looooong look at that box and ......yes I also smell a snake. We are in hard times.
This thing WILL NOT PICK UP A SIGNAL FROM GOLD....THAT IS A FACT.i WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE MOB(THE BIG BOSS ,OF THE YOU KNOW WHO!) BUY ONE AND SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

[hung]

Originally Posted by Fred

So , what makes it to swingle ?

What makes an ordinary compass swing?

'Pull the rope and you will find what's attached on it'.

[hung]

Clondike, I know you own an examiner and appears you had not sucess with it.
I don't know the regularity you use it in the field, how you use it, etc. which might explain you unsuccess.
Fact is that it apparently did not work for you.
I understand and this is highly possible. I already said in the past, that the way it was built is not the most appropriate one as the swivel mechanism tends to emit false indications by the slight hand movement or a self imposing ideomotor.
I mean, if you try to 'guess' where the target is for instance.
The best aproach would be buliding a 'no swivel', still antenna and having laser LEDs and an apropriate circuit to sub for the swivel. But this is a little hard as the examiner deals with extremely small, micro currents and also I'm sure this would completely change the concept of magnetically aligning to the signal lines.

Many friends tried my original examiner and some could not make it to work. There were a couple of them who could not make the antenna even swing.
I also noticed that using it in the right hand is a must due to charge flux related to the heart blood flux.

I for myself cannot dowse. The rods are difficult for me. But for some reason I had not problems with the examiner and it worked for me from the start.

Some months ago I received a report from a dowser who had bought the examiner months earlier and also noticed that the thing is not dowsing. He said that he got a signal and by entering the parameters, he acknowledged the target's distance and also the target being silver coins.
To make a story short, he placed some coordinates in his GPS and drove his car to the supposed target's location (which was miles away).
He found several silver coins inside a glass jar buried only 4 feet where he had previously estimated with his examiner.

Pretty fantastic, eh?

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

Clondike, I know you own an examiner and appears you had not sucess with it.
I don't know the regularity you use it in the field, how you use it, etc. which might explain you unsuccess.

Agreed. If you use it enough times you'll eventually find something. The same as simply guessing.

Originally Posted by hung

Fact is that it apparently did not work for you.
I understand and this is highly possible. I already said in the past, that the way it was built is not the most appropriate one as the swivel mechanism tends to emit false indications by the slight hand movement or a self imposing ideomotor. I mean, if you try to 'guess' where the target is for instance.

Is this one in the list of excuses why LRLs fail? If not, we should add it. It's a classic!

Originally Posted by hung

The best aproach would be buliding a 'no swivel', still antenna and having laser LEDs and an apropriate circuit to sub for the swivel. But this is a little hard as the examiner deals with extremely small, micro currents and also I'm sure this would completely change the concept of magnetically aligning to the signal lines.

More pseudo-scientific gobbledy gook. Total nonsense, made-up gibberish.

Originally Posted by hung

Many friends tried my original examiner and some could not make it to work. There were a couple of them who could not make the antenna even swing.
I also noticed that using it in the right hand is a must due to charge flux related to the heart blood flux.

That's one of the best!
Why don't you mention the temporal flux capacitor while you're at it?

Originally Posted by hung

I for myself cannot dowse. The rods are difficult for me. But for some reason I had not problems with the examiner and it worked for me from the start.

No comment...

Originally Posted by hung

Some months ago I received a report from a dowser who had bought the examiner months earlier and also noticed that the thing is not dowsing. He said that he got a signal and by entering the parameters, he acknowledged the target's distance and also the target being silver coins.
To make a story short, he placed some coordinates in his GPS and drove his car to the supposed target's location (which was miles away).
He found several silver coins inside a glass jar buried only 4 feet where he had previously estimated with his examiner.

Pretty fantastic, eh?

Yes ... too fantastic to be true. Another fairy story.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Agreed. If you use it enough times you'll eventually find something. The same as simply guessing.


Is this one in the list of excuses why LRLs fail? If not, we should add it. It's a classic!


More pseudo-scientific gobbledy gook. Total nonsense, made-up gibberish.


That's one of the best!
Why don't you mention the temporal flux capacitor while you're at it?


No comment...


Yes ... too fantastic to be true. Another fairy story.

Uhh... And with this amount of 'knowledge' still you were unable to build a working PD...

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

Uhh... And with this amount of 'knowledge' still you were unable to build a working PD...

Umm ... perhaps there's another reason. If you think hard enough you might find the answer.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by hung

I for myself cannot dowse. The rods are difficult for me. But for some reason I had not problems with the examiner and it worked for me from the start.

Isn't the ideomotor effect a wonderful thing? If it is not the most compelling and confusing of all unconscious human motor responses; then it would have to be a close second to whatever is first.

Hung, don't feel bad about being taken in by the ideomotor effect. Many individuals, including some Patent attorneys, have fallen victim to it. Of course most rational folks, when shown what is really going on, will intuitively understand the concept - and the error in their thinking. Of course there are always exceptions to someone having basic understanding....