Who thinks LRL don't work

[Clondike Clad]

Post your input on why LRL will not work.
I could not get anyone to work for me,
AM radio,oscillator with antenna on them and
mystical science.
MY conclusion is pure bull$hit and snakeoil.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Clondike Clad

Post your input on why LRL will not work.
I could not get anyone to work for me,
AM radio,oscillator with antenna on them and
mystical science.
MY conclusion is pure bull$hit and snakeoil.

I'm working in it and later post a treasure detector via magnetic absorption, so if you start with your negativity, I'll stop.

Regards

Esteban

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I'm working in it and later post a treasure detector via magnetic absorption

Hi Esteban,
What distance does the magnetic absorption detector find treasure on an average day?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

I planning a treasure detector, this is, for big items. Absorptive can catch 20 m or a little more, but depth is other theme. I think treasure at more 4 m depth can't be detectable at this distance (30 m), but in vecinity yes.

I don't know why these non ferrous items buried for long time has this characteristic.

[lonelyWOLF]

don't stop Esteban...go.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I planning a treasure detector, this is, for big items. Absorptive can catch 20 m or a little more, but depth is other theme. I think treasure at more 4 m depth can't be detectable at this distance (30 m), but in vecinity yes.

Hi Esteban,
It sounds like this will be a true LRL that we can build and test with our own hands. I will be waiting to see the schematic and photos of it finding treasure at long range.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WesP]

Just like the Energizer Bunny you'll keep on waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.......................I've been reading this board for a couple of years and read many tales of how well these LRL work yet not one of the advocates has shown any proof other then some usually poor photos. Estaban how about you find a real treasure ie. a big pile of gold then get the media to take photos and video of you with it. Or better still buy a private jet ( G550's are really nice and only about 40 Million $ us) and fly up to collect Carl's $25,000 prize money. When you can do either of them maybe you will have a few more belivers.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by WesP

Just like the Energizer Bunny you'll keep on waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.......................I've been reading this board for a couple of years and read many tales of how well these LRL work yet not one of the advocates has shown any proof other then some usually poor photos. Estaban how about you find a real treasure ie. a big pile of gold then get the media to take photos and video of you with it. Or better still buy a private jet ( G550's are really nice and only about 40 Million $ us) and fly up to collect Carl's $25,000 prize money. When you can do either of them maybe you will have a few more belivers.

Don't have the luck for to find big treasure, as the most of us in forum.

The poor photos I have is the only, the major part old photos made with amateur cameras, no National Geographic quality, sorry!

Regards

Esteban

[ivconic]

"...I've been reading this board for a couple of years and read many tales of how well these LRL work yet not one of the advocates has shown any proof other then some usually poor photos...."

Sorry to say this; but my experiences are very same here.

"Best" i achieved so far is locating remote AC fields with Zahori, and nothing else.
Locating "inactive" metals on longer ranges - never.

Somehow i have feelings that must be something much different in nature preferences between south America and east Europe, where i live.Since nobody here cant locate coin at more than 30-40cm in the ground or in the air - no significant differences.
Locating/detecting single 2cm coin burried at 50cm in the ground....would be improbable success here, among my kind of people.
So we are mostly trying to construct such device, to achieve at least those fantastic 50cm in ground for single coin...
About other things....i simply can't tell.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Ivconic

Somehow i have feelings that must be something much different in nature preferences between south America and east Europe, where i live.Since nobody here cant locate coin at more than 30-40cm in the ground or in the air - no significant differences.

Hi Ivconic,
The solution is obvious. The long range locators made in South America were constructed by South American builders who calibrated them to the local South American ground. When you build a LRL in Eastern Europe, then you must re-calibrate it to work in Eastern European ground.

What is the difference?
1. We all know the earth's magnetic field is different when moving from South America to Eastern Europe. The declination of the field is easily found in a declination table to be different in these two locations. Also the vertical component of the earth's magnetic field is also found to be different, as South America (Paraguay and southern Brazil) is closer to the earth's pole than Eastern Europe.

2. The earth's gravitational field is different when moving from South America to Eastern Europe. The small variations in the strength of the earth's gravitational field is easily found in gravitational field strength map to be different in these two locations.

3. The average daytime electrostatic field in the air is different when moving from South America to Eastern Europe. The differences are dictated by the climate, moisture, air quality, and a number of other geophysical properties that change when sampling the electric field in the air from different locations on the earth's surface. You will also notice the hours of the day when this field is at optimum levels for LRL detection is not the same in South America as for Eastern Europe.

Now, let me try to guess your reasoning why you might think these three geophysical properties are unrelated to the ability to detect long range buried treasure:
"Best" i achieved so far is locating remote AC fields with Zahori, and nothing else".
I am not surprised you only located AC fields with the Zahori. The Zahori is an electric charge detector that is also capable of locating AC fields when tuned to detect portions of alternating electric transmission.

The LRL that Esteban described works by detection non-ferrous metals from long distance using the principle of magnetic absorption, not by detecting electric charges in the air. So Esteban is talking about a completely different design than the Zahori. I would suspect Esteban's design utilizes coils to detect variations in magnetic absorption rather than an electric charge-detecting antenna as the Zahori uses. So maybe we cannot expect a Zahori to be comparable to the detector that Esteban plans to post the schematic for.

So the final question: Will Esteban's magnetic absorption LRL work in Eastern Europe?
The answer depends on several things:
1. Does Esteban's magnetic absorption detector find metals long distance in South America? If no, then it probably won't detect long distance in Eastern Europe either.
2. Does Esteban's magnetic absorption detector rely on detecting existing weak magnetic fields, or does it broadcast its own magnetic field and detect the absorption into long-time buried metals? If it has it's own transmitter, then the chances are good it will work in Eastern Europe as well as South America. But if it is a passive detector, relying on existing ambient magnetic fields, then you can be certain it will not work the same in Eastern Europe as in South America. It may not work in Eastern Europe at all, or it may work better than in South America, depending on how well it is tuned for Eastern European ambient magnetic fields that can be sensed by the detector.
3. Are there existing magnetic fields or electric fields that will interfere with the operation of the Esteban LRL detector in Eastern Europe? Remember, Esteban's detector will be calibrated in Paraguay where there is most likely less man-made interference than most of Europe. So this could be a big problem to prevent this detector from working in some locations far away from Paraguay.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Originally Posted by J_Player

So the final question: Will Esteban's magnetic absorption LRL work in Eastern Europe?
The answer depends on several things:
1. Does Esteban's magnetic absorption detector find metals long distance in South America? If no, then it probably won't detect long distance in Eastern Europe either.
2. Does Esteban's magnetic absorption detector rely on detecting existing weak magnetic fields, or does it broadcast its own magnetic field and detect the absorption into long-time buried metals? If it has it's own transmitter, then the chances are good it will work in Eastern Europe as well as South America. But if it is a passive detector, relying on existing ambient magnetic fields, then you can be certain it will not work the same in Eastern Europe as in South America. It may not work in Eastern Europe at all, or it may work better than in South America, depending on how well it is tuned for Eastern European ambient magnetic fields that can be sensed by the detector.
3. Are there existing magnetic fields or electric fields that will interfere with the operation of the Esteban LRL detector in Eastern Europe? Remember, Esteban's detector will be calibrated in Paraguay where there is most likely less man-made interference than most of Europe. So this could be a big problem to prevent this detector from working in some locations away from Paraguay.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi!

Now you´re talking!
I think those are the 1M$ questions ...I had the same ones when Esteban talked about absorbtion...
regards,
Fred.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

I think those are the 1M$ questions ...

Well, it is only a 25,000$ question if you take the LRL and visit Carl-NC for his prize, but it certainly is a 1M$ question if you try to win the Randi prize.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Well, it is only a 25,000$ question if you take the LRL and visit Carl-NC for his prize, but it certainly is a 1M$ question if you try to win the Randi prize.

Best wishes,
J_P

Nah, doesn´t work with Carl´s challenge:he has put his gold in a isolated box...we have to tell him to put it in contact with earth, and take an appointment in 10 years
Regards,

Fred.

[ivconic]

Main reason i dont think that is possible is due very strong ground preferences comparing to very weak (for example) coin preferences, if any (arround coin).
We do know (and can measure) several ground preferences. We dont know and certainly cant measure neither one coin preference (burried coin).
We also do know that coin will produce alternating, short lasting and very weak em fileld IF EXPOSED to much stronger EM field came from search coil.
That is all we know...and all we can proove.
So.... it is true what you explained reffering soil preferences in south America and east Europe...but we dont have benefits from knowing these things, here. Those fact will not help us here at all.
Point is to locate burried coin at more than ... 40cm BURRIED in the ground.
If Esteban's device do the same thing as conventional detector...than..what is the point of making it? We already do have excellent detectors.
I might be shortminded and stupid but i dont see any possible chance to achieve more than it was already achieved with conventional methods utilising EM field as main preference.
I am posting here pretty simplified draw to explain more why this is not possible.
Coin does not have neither one preference which we can monitor over soil surface. Soil surfaces preferences will always blank and cancel everything what possibly coming from burried coin.
Ask anybody of e.e.'s here on this forum.
Ask Carl Moreland, ask Quiaozhi, ask Sean Goddard...ask anybody..

[Dell Winders]

Nah, doesn´t work with Carl´s challenge:he has put his gold in a isolated box...we have to tell him to put it in contact with earth, and take an appointment in 10 years
Regards,

Fred.

THE TRUTH IS,

In 1987 Randi, conducted eight DB tests on the Omnitron MFD, in front of witnesses, and camera crew on a public beach in Florida. Six (6) of the DB tests were reported at the end of the day to be accurate (75%). Randi, stated to me in the presence of witness that more tests would have to be conducted to reach any conclusions.

In later years Randi, lied about me, and the tests to the public claiming that no test ever took place, and accused me of being a liar, fraud and scammer.

When confronted with Video proof of the test Randi changed his lie to, the Omnitron did not work. Carl, supported Randi's lies with his own by claiming that the DB tests never took place, that the results were based on visible tests where I could see the Gold, or Silver.

Carl, was not there, has no way of knowing, and has lied about the Omnitron DB test results in support of Randi's, efforts to defame my name and lifelong reputation of honesty.

Two liars with a self promotion Challenge gimmick, do not make a right. Dell

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Main reason i dont think that is possible is due very strong ground preferences comparing to very weak (for example) coin preferences, if any (arround coin).
We do know (and can measure) several ground preferences. We dont know and certainly cant measure neither one coin preference (burried coin).
We also do know that coin will produce alternating, short lasting and very weak em fileld IF EXPOSED to much stronger EM field came from search coil.
That is all we know...and all we can proove.
So.... it is true what you explained reffering soil preferences in south America and east Europe...but we dont have benefits from knowing these things, here. Those fact will not help us here at all.
Point is to locate burried coin at more than ... 40cm BURRIED in the ground.
If Esteban's device do the same thing as conventional detector...than..what is the point of making it? We already do have excellent detectors.
I might be shortminded and stupid but i dont see any possible chance to achieve more than it was already achieved with conventional methods utilising EM field as main preference.
I am posting here pretty simplified draw to explain more why this is not possible.
Coin does not have neither one preference which we can monitor over soil surface. Soil surfaces preferences will always blank and cancel everything what possibly coming from burried coin.
Ask anybody of e.e.'s here on this forum.
Ask Carl Moreland, ask Quiaozhi, ask Sean Goddard...ask anybody..

And this just the advantage of pistols since is far of the soil, so sensibility you can up very much in combination mixing some circuits for to do the job.

Regards

Esteban

[ivconic]

This is the case when we monitor plain soil surface. Zero reading refering to any eventaul coin preference...

[ivconic]

And this is the case we have when exposing same soil to EM field produced in search head of any detector...

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by WesP

Just like the Energizer Bunny you'll keep on waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.......................I've been reading this board for a couple of years and read many tales of how well these LRL work yet not one of the advocates has shown any proof other then some usually poor photos. Estaban how about you find a real treasure ie. a big pile of gold then get the media to take photos and video of you with it. Or better still buy a private jet ( G550's are really nice and only about 40 Million $ us) and fly up to collect Carl's $25,000 prize money. When you can do either of them maybe you will have a few more belivers.

My intention (if you never read the threads) isn't make money, so I'm not seller, no manufacturer, only investigator. I wish from all you OYE (Open Your Eyes), but also oye in Spanish mean listen.

Do the world runs only through the money, the gold, the petroleum, etc.? Is this the only rea$on? This big society of consumers will be destroy the world, the monster each day eat more and more...

Regards

Esteban

[ivconic]

Dell,Esteban...nobody can deny your own experiences. As far as i am concerned, point here is not to deny your claims (my last wish!). Point is both of you to try to explain a bit more working principles of those apparatuses you've been used to gain such experiences.
Again, i guess i am a bit shortminded, simply i can not understand working principle of those devices!? Simply i cant! I cant figure what coin preference you are able to monitor with your apparatus? Coin is small,metal thing, light weigth,small mass,small size...Usually if burried in ground it is absolutelly blanked/canceled by surrounding ground itself...So far i havent been able to
"sense" or any other way monitor such small metal item...except in cases when it is at very shallow depths..and even than;only with some very good metal detector - no other way..

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Dell,Esteban...nobody can deny your own experiences. As far as i am concerned, point here is not to deny your claims (my last wish!). Point is both of you to try to explain a bit more working principles of those apparatuses you've been used to gain such experiences.
Again, i guess i am a bit shortminded, simply i can not understand working principle of those devices!? Simply i cant! I cant figure what coin preference you are able to monitor with your apparatus? Coin is small,metal thing, light weigth,small mass,small size...Usually if burried in ground it is absolutelly blanked/canceled by surrounding ground itself...So far i havent been able to
"sense" or any other way monitor such small metal item...except in cases when it is at very shallow depths..and even than;only with some very good metal detector - no other way..

But the surrounding soil is less in density and conductivity. A solid coin has special electric and/or magnetic characteristic when buried for long time.

Regards

Esteban

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Ivconic

If Esteban's device do the same thing as conventional detector...than..what is the point of making it?

Hmmmm... What have we here?
It seems you are presuming that Esteban's detector works on the principle of detecting eddy currents generated by a metal detector search coil. But wait...
Esteban said his treasure detector detects via magnetic absorption, not by detecting induced eddy currents. I am sure any EE will tell you it is not practical to detect induced eddy currents from a long distance, but what do these EEs know about detecting magnetic absorption anomalies?

In the case of Esteban's proposed magnetic absorption detector, there are more forces at work than just the absorption of magnetism. It is presumed that long-time buried non-ferrous objects are capable of developing other physical properties in the surrounding soil due to dissolved traces of metal which change the soil composition enough to produce anomalies that can me measured at a greater distance than an eddy current detector.

It has been well documented by scientists all over the world that long time buried metals including gold will dissolve and actually form a column of ions that move upwards toward the surface of the soil. These ions are in-effect part of a ground battery as long as they remain as ions, and are capable of interacting with not only the magnetic properties of the ground, but also the electrostatic properties of the air in the local area where the metal is buried.

Now, knowing that Esteban's detector does not work on the principle of detecting induced eddy currents, how can you prove it doesn't work? The only method I know to prove whether it works is to watch it succeed or fail at finding long time buried non-ferrous metals.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hmmmm... What have we here?
It seems you are presuming that Esteban's detector works on the principle of detecting eddy currents generated by a metal detector search coil. But wait...
Esteban said his treasure detector detects via magnetic absorption, not by detecting induced eddy currents. I am sure any EE will tell you it is not practical to detect induced eddy currents from a long distance, but what do these EEs know about detecting magnetic absorption anomalies?

In the case of Esteban's proposed magnetic absorption detector, there are more forces at work than just the absorption of magnetism. It is presumed that long-time buried non-ferrous objects are capable of developing other physical properties in the surrounding soil due to dissolved traces of metal which change the soil composition enough to produce anomalies that can me measured at a greater distance than an eddy current detector.

It has been well documented by scientists all over the world that long time buried metals including gold will dissolve and actually form a column of ions that move upwards toward the surface of the soil. These ions are in-effect part of a ground battery as long as they remain as ions, and are capable of interacting not only the magnetic properties of the ground, but also the electrostatic properties of the air in the local area where the metal is buried.

Now, knowing that Esteban's detector does not work on the principle of detecting induced eddy currents, how can you prove it doesn't work? The only method I know to prove whether it works is to watch it succeed or fail at finding long time buried non-ferrous metals.

Best wishes,
J_P

Yes, you explain very better than me.

Regards

Esteban

[ivconic]

".Now, knowing that Esteban's detector does not work on the principle of detecting induced eddy currents, how can you prove it doesn't work? The only method to prove this is to watch it succeed or fail at finding long time buried non-ferrous metals...."

Again,my intention is not to prove anything here. But to learn more about that new, unknown (for me) method. As i said, i simply can not understand and therefore i want to learn and understand....so i could make my own device and go outdoor to collect more coins! Hurraaah!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Ivconic

Again,my intention is not to prove anything here. But to learn more about that new, unknown (for me) method. As i said, i simply can not understand and therefore i want to learn and understand....so i could make my own device and go outdoor to collect more coins! Hurraaah!

Hi Ivconic,
I don't think anyone knows entirely all the details of the principles of how this magnetic absorption detector works including Esteban. I think Esteban knows only enough of the principles to be able to build a detector and post a schematic. The good part is if it works, then we can all find more coins and large gold statues that have been missed by others.

Best wishes,
J_P