Interesting Electroscope User Report

[hung]

This apparent electroscope honest user report displays pretty well the fact that devices like these do work. They might not be fully developed yet but as everything else, it will evolve with time. The phenomena exists and so do the devices to interact with it nowadays, although part of it being Radionic. This is not new as dowsing practice is reported being as old as 8,000 years. Our ancestors already knew about it.
But the sucess will be dependent of the operator's skills and habilities no doubt. The 'energies' exist, the 'forces' needed are there. They are not foolproof as dowsing also is not unless an ultra experienced user takes control.
By reading what the user bellow has to say, his difficulties are not hidden and are evident. But his efforts into suceeding may be the one component, the key factor which makes failures disappear. And we acknowledge the existence of 'forces' which inhabit our universe still completely unkown.
Judge for yourself. Nice reading to all.

************************************

There is something new and challenging on the treasure hunting scene. Something which has rekindled my lagging interest in what once was an exciting activity for me. I am talking about Electroscopes® by Thomas. We have all seen the ads for instruments claiming to find gold and silver at a distance. I decided to find out for myself if this instrument really does what the advertisers claim.

First off, let me say that I am writing to you as a treasure hunter with 18 years field experiences using conventional metal detectors. I am the author of the book Eastern Treasure Hunter, and have written articles for leading treasure magazines. The following statements and opinions are my own, and I am not connected with the Electroscope® Company.

Late last spring I began using a Model 20 Electroscope® and have been working with it, weather permitting, ever since. An Electroscope® is an instrument that is supposed to sense gold and silver at a considerable distance. The instrument is used by holding it as you would a pistol and sweeping it right to left and left to right in front of you. If a good target is sensed during the sweep, the antennas which protrude from the front of the instrument should "lock on" as you attempt to sweep past the object. Since this apparatus is housed over a swivel handle, correct balance is critical. By using the methods of intersecting and boxing as explained in the instructions, you narrow the target area down to within a few square feet. Your conventional metal detector is then brought into play to make the final search and recovery.

The two most asked questions from local treasure hunting friends are, does it really work and it is a dowsing rod? The answer to the first question is yes. I believe the instrument does work. However, the degree to which it works is determined by the skill of the operator and certain other factors. For example, balancing the equipment while sweeping and walking with it can take some time to accomplish. Learning to properly tune the scope was a matter of guesswork for me during the first several months because the basic instructions that came with my unit were not as detailed as they should be. Let me say here that during those first, often frustrating months, many telephone conversations took place between me and Thomas the president of Electroscopes®. His long distance cooperation helped me over many rough spots during that period.

Fortunately there are video tapes now available on balancing and tuning the scope. These tapes provide detailed instructions which I consider vital to anyone trying to learn proper use of the scope.

At first when I would track a positive signal on the scope and failed to make a gold or silver recovery, my reaction was to blame the scope for not working. Since then I have learned that other factors unrelated to the scope will hamper ones efforts and why it's unrealistic to expect to recover worthwhile targets to within a few square feet but fail to locate it with your conventional detector because it's just too deep and out of range. During this process you may find other coins, not gold or silver, that are within normal detector range at this spot. Your only alternative here would be to screen sift several cubic feet of earth until the good target is found. Not many people I know would be willing to do this even to recover a silver coin or gold ring.

A good target may lie buried close to a piece of junk metal and if the discrimination setting is being used on the conventional detector, it can bypass the good target as well as the junk. If the detector is being used in the all metals mode, a lot of junk signals might have to be eliminated by digging them before the good target appears.

When I first started to make valid finds I was inclined to credit luck or coincidence instead of the scope for the successful recovery. However, as these coincidences of "good luck" began to add up, I was forced to consider placing some of the credit elsewhere.

While I can't detail everything that has happened in connection with using this instrument, I will tell you what has occurred on my own property and at one other site.

I have lived on this property for 20 years. I have been using metal detectors here for 18 years, testing new models throughout that time, burying clad coins during informal hunts for my children to find with their detectors while they were growing up. Friends have also used their detectors in my yard at different times. To my knowledge, no silver coins were ever found with a metal detector on my property during that 18 year period. Likewise no pennies older than wheatbacks were ever found on this property. During the relatively short period of time I have been using the Electroscope®, testing it in my own yard, I have found 4 silver dimes, 3 Mercury, 1 Roosevelt. I also recovered 1 Indianhead penny and 1 Large Cent. The scope signals that led to the pennies produced no silver or gold finds. Perhaps the gold or silver targets in these areas are too deep and may never be found. I don't mind accepting the old coppers as consolation prizes. The initial response on the scope began 20' to 50' away from each target source. The coins were found individually at average depths and the target area boxed down to an approximate 5' square before I switched my metal detector on to make the final search and recovery.

I asked my wife to bury a plastic bag containing 20 silver dimes 4" to 5" deep anywhere along a certain 500' section of our property line within 2' either side of the line. She did this one day while I was away from home. When she told me the bag was hidden, I waited 10 days then I began my search. The way I hunted was to stand about 15' away at right angles to the property line. I didn't want to position myself too far away since I didn't know how strong the signal from the dimes might be after just 10 days in the ground. I would make a 40 degree sweep with the scope toward the line and if I got no response, move 10 paces down the line, make another 40 degree sweep, etc. If I got a response I would box the signal area down to a 4' x 4' square then move in with my metal detector to try for a recovery. When I got my first signal on the scope and attempted to locate the source with my metal detector, I got no response. My second signal gave similar negative results. So far I had metal detected 32 square feet out of a possible 2,000 square feet with no results. On my third hit with the scope, I boxed it down to a 4' x 4' square, closed in with my metal detector and easily found the dimes. Was it luck or did the scope help? If you're handy with numbers, you can figure the odds. I'm just telling you what happened.

A religious summer camp is located not far from my home. I have hunted the site with conventional metal detectors during the off season for many years. Coins I've found there have dated back into the 1930's. Nothing very exciting. Wheatbacks, Buffalos, an occasional silver coin. It's convenient and peaceful back there. Nobody bothers me.

Last winter I bought a new conventional metal detector. I took it to the campground to give it a good workout. I hunted into late spring and found a few hundred coins. Of the total, 4 coins were silver, 1 Washington quarter, 2 Mercury dimes, and 1 Roosevelt Dime. Shortly afterward, when I began using the Electroscope®, I took it there and recovered 2 additional silver Roosevelt dimes along with no more than a small handful of clad coins in the process. These silver finds were made on different days at average depths. They were not located close together. I found the first one not more than 15' from where the scope initially picked up the signal. I tracked the second one at least 60' before digging it up. I realize while the two hunting situations I've described resulted in finding just 6 silver coins, what's significant to me is this. The time spent using my conventional detector to make the final recoveries was a small fraction of what would normally be necessary using just a metal detector alone.

As to the question of this instrument being a dowsing rod, I don't think so from what I know about dowsing. Yes, I know it looks like a dowsing rod and it's used in a similar fashion but there are other things to consider. Among those who believe that lost or hidden treasure can be located through dowsing, most agree that the person doing the dowsing needs a detailed picture in his mind of exactly what he's looking for. No such detailed information is needed when using an Electroscope® . If a good target is out there, the scope will react regardless of what the operator is thinking about at the time. Although hoping for a particular target of gold or silver can't hurt, (don't most of us do that anyway when using conventional detectors?) Concentration on correct tuning and proper balance is what's important.

I don't know what makes an Electroscope® work. I do know that I have increased my silver to clad ratio of finds dramatically while using one. The old slow process of covering a large area with a small searchcoil has been largely eliminated saving more field time that I can calculate. For those who insist on trying to figure out the precise technology of what does make the scope work, I suggest starting with Webster's Dictionary. Yes, you'll find the word electroscope in there.

For me, developing new skills for tracking down treasure with an Electroscope® has been an exciting new challenge and I look forward to learning more and finding more as I continue to work with it.

[Esteban]

Just I have scanned this 1989-1990 Electroscope catalog:

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by hung

And we acknowledge the existence of 'forces' which inhabit our universe still completely unkown.

May the "force" be with you Hung.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Just I have scanned this 1989-1990 Electroscope catalog:

Hi Esteban,

The images are too small to read. Can you please post each image separately?

[Esteban]

I post only page capture because the files are more than 4 Mb.

I will upload in Mytempdir.com in few minutes.

[Esteban]

http://www.mytempdir.com/1302870

[Jim]

Thanks for sharing!

[Dell Winders]

I'm quite familiar with Electroscope.I've compared them in the field. I knew several people who became dealers, and 2 of their contest winners. I don't buy their advertising claims. Dell

[J_Player]

I don't buy their advertising claims either.

In the manual that Esteban posted, It seems odd that the customer reports are all about 20 years old. I wonder if the report Hung posted from the Electroscope web page is also 20 years old. And I wonder what financial ties Dave Redina has with the Electroscope manufacturers. Should I believe it is a fact because it was posted on the Electroscope web page? Wouldn't it be better to have Electroscope users who recently found treasures to drop in and post photos of what they found this year?

Originally Posted by Hung

This apparent electroscope honest user report displays pretty well the fact that devices like these do work

Take note: Not a fact. Another Hung opinion advanced possibly to bolster his "unknown science" diatribe to prove that the Mineoro LRLs work.

[hung]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Take note: Not a fact. Another Hung opinion advanced possibly to bolster his "unknown science" diatribe to prove that the Mineoro LRLs work.

An opinion is based on a presumption. The report above was issued by a user. It works for him. I have been in contact with another independent Electroscope user whose claims are not in the Thomas' site. His claims are about the same as above, that is works for him too. I know of several owners of RT Examiners, Dowsers, electronic dowsing rods users, etc. who have been sucessful. Even Michael posted a testmony about a Lectrasearch user who was also sucessful.

So don't come here with empty statements. FACT: THOSE DEVICES WORK FOR THE ABOVE USERS. CONCLUSION: THEY WORK. If only a single person reported their effectiveness, this would be enough to consider the working status.

YOU are the one who is emiting an opinion it does not work.
Also do yourself a favor. Quit arguing there's no science involved. You don't have the slightest smallest clue about it.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I don't buy their advertising claims. Dell

I don't buy any adverstising claim.

This is a marketing strategy, introduced by american capitalism. It's obvious any advertising claim is prone to exageration.
But this does not interfere in the fact that devices like electrosocopes or any one based on this principle might work. Users report their effectiveness or not.
I have the presumption that if it did not work it also would not last 20 years in the market being sold. Specially in US.

[Carl-NC]

I'm not so sure Mr. Rendina's "review" was written independently of Electroscope. Oops, I mean Electroscope®.

Originally Posted by hung

But this does not interfere in the fact that devices like electrosocopes or any one based on this principle might work.

I would like to hear on what "principle" you believe the Electroscope is based, since I know for an absolute fact it is nothing but a dowsing rod.

I have the presumption that if it did not work it also would not last 20 years in the market being sold. Specially in US.

Low-level scams can go on for years and years. Especially with a product that easily deceives the buyer. Homeopathic medicines and other "supplements" are good examples as well.

- Carl

P.S.--What's that purpose of that darned gold-colored plate that came with my FG80?

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

I'm not so sure Mr. Rendina's "review" was written independently of Electroscope. Oops, I mean Electroscope®.

I bielieve the registered mark was added by the Electroscope company since they added the report in their site. Nothing extraordinaire.

I would like to hear on what "principle" you believe the Electroscope is based, since I know for an absolute fact it is nothing but a dowsing rod.

Yes. I think we could say it's a dowsing rod with an electronic circuit built inside in hope to maximize the dowsing potential. Principle would involve the basic dowsing phenomena, among other things radio frequency, plain wave and circular polarization of EM fields, not linear.

Low-level scams can go on for years and years. Especially with a product that easily deceives the buyer. Homeopathic medicines and other "supplements" are good examples as well. - Carl

Homeopathy would raise another huge discussion as many believe it works (included me). I think the dowsing mechaniism alone is enough to be discussed in this life...

P.S.--What's that purpose of that darned gold-colored plate that came with my FG80?

I did not think you were that lazy to read my previous posts in this forum.
It's obvious the gold coated copper plate is to be used as sample to be detected by the FG80 in the right conditions. You know that.

[Dell Winders]

I would like to hear on what "principle" you believe the Electroscope is based, since I know for an absolute fact it is nothing but a dowsing rod.

Your stupidity of Dowsing is showing, Carl. Tell me how you personally get the Electroscope configuration to respond to mental questions that require "Yes" or "No" answers??

It's classified as a Directional Locator. You will have a heck of a difficult time Mentally Dowsing with an Electroscope. Dell

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

I bielieve the registered mark was added by the Electroscope company since they added the report in their site. Nothing extraordinaire.

As I recall from Lost Treasure, Mr. Rendina has also received free devices and cash from Electroscopes. I'm sure that had no bearing on his report, though. In any case, if Mr. Rendina still believes his E-scope works in the very same test he described, I know where he can win an easy $25,000.

Yes. I think we could say it's a dowsing rod with an electronic circuit built inside in hope to maximize the dowsing potential. Principle would involve the basic dowsing phenomena, among other things radio frequency, plain wave and circular polarization of EM fields, not linear.

What, exactly, does the "electronic circuit" in the E-scope do? Since I know it's just a battery and a potentiometer, perhaps you can explain how that circuit is affected by EM fields.

Homeopathy would raise another huge discussion as many believe it works (included me).

Yes, you've already clearly indicated your belief in pseudoscience nonsense.

It's obvious the gold coated copper plate is to be used as sample to be detected by the FG80 in the right conditions. You know that.

2 - Fact : Gold has to be more than 10 years old buried OR undisturbed for more than 10 years to be detectable. In this case, no need to be buried. Unless one of the above cases are present in a home environment, gold will not be detected.

Now why in the world would Mineoro include a sample that YOU say cannot possibly be detected? Or, am I expected to bury the gold plate, then wait 10 years to test the FG80? Either your claim is silly, or Mineoro's claim is silly... which one?

- Carl

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

I know where he can win an easy $25,000.

Maybe he does too. But without all the hype and games involved.

What, exactly, does the "electronic circuit" in the E-scope do? Since I know it's just a battery and a potentiometer

I've seen your report pictures and I'm sure there's more than that.

Yes, you've already clearly indicated your belief in pseudoscience nonsense.

Don't judge something you think you know based on what you don't know.

2 - Fact : Gold has to be more than 10 years old buried OR undisturbed for more than 10 years to be detectable. In this case, no need to be buried. Unless one of the above cases are present in a home environment, gold will not be detected.

Now why in the world would Mineoro include a sample that YOU say cannot possibly be detected? Or, am I expected to bury the gold plate, then wait 10 years to test the FG80? Either your claim is silly, or Mineoro's claim is silly... which one?

- Carl

Amazing how you still seem to confuse things so far...
Also, this is not the only past post which you should refer to. Dig and you find the same answer I will provide bellow.
I will say it for the last time because even I am tired of saying the same things involving Mineoro.
The FG80 was developed as an upgrade from previous models and also to be able to detect fresh gold at not so short a distance. With a PDC210 I get to pick my gold ring from only one inch from the ionic chamber. The FG80 allowed me to pick this same ring from about 10 feet one sunny day. I already told the case here. But this will only happen under special cisrcumstances such as hot weather, sunny day, low humidity. I tested the FG zillion of times in different manners and confirmed what is stated in Mineoro's site. But I agree the fresh gold marketing was a little exagerated as it's not possible all the time but still, it can be done. Mineoro launched the GIG to make this happen on a more regular basis.
For several times I placed a dehumidifier inside my closet and under controled environment I could detect the gold plate although from only 3 to 4 feet away. I don't see why you would not be able to reach the same results (no GIG involved).
But in order to detect long time buried gold in the field, one should turn the GIG off otherwise distance of detection and power to acomplish it will decrease dramatically. So the REGULAR way of detection (long range) wil be focused on gold which is more than 10 years buried.
In sum, everytime you go to the field and get a signal which is from far away, the distance picked is proportional to the target's mass and time buried.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

http://www.mytempdir.com/1302870

Thanks Esteban! Now everything is easily readable.

However, with Kinetic Magnum Shields, Receptor Terminals, Particle Intensifiers and Separators, it all sounds a bit like Star Wars. Either that, or someone's having a laugh.

[Dell Winders]

I would like to hear on what "principle" you believe the Electroscope is based, since I know for an absolute fact it is nothing but a dowsing rod.

Yes. I think we could say it's a dowsing rod with an electronic circuit built inside in hope to maximize the dowsing potential. Principle would involve the basic dowsing phenomena, among other things radio frequency, plain wave and circular polarization of EM fields, not linear.

Carl, are you stating as fact that YOU are able to mentally control the Electroscope reactions thru the use of metaphysical, mind/
muscle ideomotor Dowsing response.??

PROVE IT! I don't think you can do that with the Electroscope. I think you are lieing. Dell

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

I've seen your report pictures and I'm sure there's more than that.

Other people have independently verified my findings: there is no useful circuitry inside the E-scope; it is just a dowsing rod. And, if you still have doubts, you can look, and see for yourself.

Amazing how you still seem to confuse things so far...

It doesn't help that you keep changing your story.

But this will only happen under special cisrcumstances such as hot weather, sunny day, low humidity.

Today was bright & sunny, 80°F/26°C, rel. humidity at 20%. I set up the FG80 outside... tuned it up to barely quiet... independently and collectively tried a gold ring, the Mineoro "gold" sample, and my 10-ounce gold bar...

10 feet: nothing
1 foot: nothing
1 inch: nothing
touched the box: nothing.

This is very consistent with prior testing. To date, my FG80 has never once detected fresh gold, under any conditions.

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Has the Mineoro detected buried targets?

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

Other people have independently verified my findings: there is no useful circuitry inside the E-scope; it is just a dowsing rod. And, if you still have doubts, you can look, and see for yourself.

It doesn't help that you keep changing your story.

Today was bright & sunny, 80°F/26°C, rel. humidity at 20%. I set up the FG80 outside... tuned it up to barely quiet... independently and collectively tried a gold ring, the Mineoro "gold" sample, and my 10-ounce gold bar...

10 feet: nothing
1 foot: nothing
1 inch: nothing
touched the box: nothing.

This is very consistent with prior testing. To date, my FG80 has never once detected fresh gold, under any conditions.

- Carl

You are not calibrating it right.
Tune the knob until very sensitive in the region where it will start beeping. Then wait a little as the beeps will eventually cease. Now get your plate, ring whatever and pass it in front of the chamber from 2 to 3 feet for instance. It will beep. But sometimes it might not beep in the return movement. Then it will beep again if you repeat it. I could get it to work so YOU HAVE to get the same results. No drama.
If you own what used to be Ed Merril's unit, chances are it's working fine. Unless you have some other device with unknown origin.

This inconsistency was apparently remedied with the introduction of the GIG. A member of my team spent an entire afternoon in January with Damasio burying the plate in a lot of places and from an average distance which I don't recall right now, he was able fo find it everytime until later when sun disappeared and started to rain as the phenomena and the beeps ceased.

Questions:

1 - When you turn the unit on, does the LED light keep lit or not?
2 - Is there a small brass lead protruding from the front panel?
3 - Is the infrared sensor built in the chamber or under ir?

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Has the Mineoro detected buried targets?

Yes, it detects my dog fence when it's turned on, very consistently.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

Yes, it detects my dog fence when it's turned on, very consistently.

Being sarcastic here will be of no help to you. It just add more weight to my suspicions that you really don't wish to test anything. You understood very well what Dell meant.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

You are not calibrating it right.

Could be... I only followed the instructions.

Tune the knob until very sensitive in the region where it will start beeping. Then wait a little as the beeps will eventually cease.

Or, the beeps increase as the unit warms up. This is especially noticeable on a warm sunny day. In any case, I have tried backing off just until the beeping stops, as the manual instructs, but I have also tried advancing it slightly until I get occasional (random) beeps. Either way, there is no detection of the targets.

Now get your plate, ring whatever and pass it in front of the chamber from 2 to 3 feet for instance. It will beep. But sometimes it might not beep in the return movement.

It doesn't beep at all, at least in any correlation to the target. Oh, sure, I can tune the FG80 to get some random beeping, and every once in a great while one of those random beeps will occur as I sweep the target by, but there is no real correlation.

1 - When you turn the unit on, does the LED light keep lit or not?

The LED is in synch with the piezo.

2 - Is there a small brass lead protruding from the front panel?

No.

3 - Is the infrared sensor built in the chamber or under ir?

Under.

- Carl

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

Being sarcastic here will be of no help to you. It just add more weight to my suspicions that you really don't wish to test anything. You understood very well what Dell meant.

I'm not being sarcastic... so far, that's the only buried target it's detected.