Your feedback wanted on dowsing.

[Travlin_Dan]

I dowse occasionally, and I can tell you its an amazing thing to see the rods cross over metal objects and other stuff,I ve dowsed now for about 20 years now but never seriously.I would like to hear from anyone who has an opinion on the operation of what I call mineral rods.Thes are 16 inch lengths of 12 awg copper bent at a third of its length and tipped with 21 kt natural Black Hills gold beads formed by a master jeweler and soldered to the ends of my mineral rods.I hope I have described them accurately. They are held loosely in each hand ,tips leaned down at maybe 10 -15 degrees from horizontal, they will cross, over crystals of minerals ,and metals as well as point to hollows in the Earth,, really weird stuff I want to know about... how does it work?????

[Ed in SoDak]

Hi Dan,

Well, it all depends, after all's said and done, if the money's in the jeweler's pocket or yours!

I've read all you need do is focus your thoughts on what you are seeking. It may help to have a small sample of what is sought. A nugget in the pocket may perform as well as custom rod-mounted ones. Water-dowsers can't have a little droplet on the tip, for example, but who knows, it just might help to wet the the rods!

I've a friend who swears by it. We tried it together in my yard. I made a pair or rods from house wiring and drilled dowels for handles so the rods turn real easily. We both got crossed rods in the same spot, very wierd! I never dug it though. Right by a tree stump and in a slate outcrop. Supposedly, we were dowsing for water, anyway, and that's usually 100 to 180 feet deep here.

My former boss tried it once to witch for a dinosaur skull. He found something, they dug it up. It was a giant iron concretion. At least there was something there, I bet he was imagining a large, whole skull! In reality, no skull was ever found for this dino.

Lots of good info out there on the subject. Ever try map dowsing?
Have fun!

-Ed

[Rattlesnake Jim]

TD in all my years of prospecting and treasure hunting the only thing I've noticed about dowsing is that the fellows that make and sell the LRLs and dowsing rods are the only ones who make any money. I have never seen a rich dowser. Most of it is "BUNK". There seems to be some success with water dowsing to drill water wells, But for prospecting and treasure hunting it's a whole different world. If you believe in dowsing you can make your own tools, but I wouldn't give you a plug nickel for any of that crap! Just my 2 cents!
I know where there is a lot of gold! If you can dowse it you can have it!
No one has found it yet! LOL

Rattlesnake Jim

[Travlin_Dan]

Well Jim, Sorry you arent able to use mineral rods, pregnant redheads have trouble too with them. I never sell these , they are a giveaway and create hours of fun and excitement for lots of people for free.Anyone can make these rods outta nothin and find stuff, old fashioned family fun, thtas what it is.
And if you are truly serious about your gold story, put it writing and have it notorized, you're on mister, I happen to be a sport and I will take your gold, I might even feel a little sympathetic towards you and give you something back for your trouble.Kinda lame to talk smack on something youre not well acquainted with.Im sorry you feel that way.Now where do you want me to start dowsing......? Travlin Dan

[willy]

There was a guy hunting the Lagunas that had a transistor glued to the end of his witching wand. Claimed it amplified the signal something fierce. ...Willy.

[diggerbarns]

I think dowsing is a load of bollocks myself

[Ed in SoDak]

Well, I dunno. As I say, I've tried it and danged if the rods don't pull or move, despite my best efforts to keep them still. I walk around, they cross, I back up, they open. Move forwards again, cross. Grip tighter, more level. Still they move. There, in just that spot. What it means I can't say, as I've never dug these mystery spots. But I can go there right now, about 50 feet from here, and repeat it.

-Ed

[Rattlesnake Jim]

Originally Posted by Travlin_Dan

Well Jim, Sorry you arent able to use mineral rods, pregnant redheads have trouble too with them. I never sell these , they are a giveaway and create hours of fun and excitement for lots of people for free.Anyone can make these rods outta nothin and find stuff, old fashioned family fun, thtas what it is.
And if you are truly serious about your gold story, put it writing and have it notorized, you're on mister, I happen to be a sport and I will take your gold, I might even feel a little sympathetic towards you and give you something back for your trouble.Kinda lame to talk smack on something youre not well acquainted with.Im sorry you feel that way.Now where do you want me to start dowsing......? Travlin Dan

I don't have to put anything in writing! The gold is in every mining district and other places not known. Go get some and show it too me! Only with your dowsing. If it worked for me I'd be sipping magaritas under palm trees and kicking back not stirring up crap on a forum like this.
RSJ

[willy]

Shhhh! Keep it down! The more LRL's out there, the less metal detectors; the less metal detectors, the better the chances for the remaing detectorists to get fat. Soooo... VIVE LA LRL's!! Dowsing rules! Free yourself from the tyranny of the transistor! Science suks! ...Willy.

[MojaveRed]

This is all very interesting but there are now nine posts on dousing with zero technical content -- this is, after all, the Tech Forum, eh?

(Well, OK; maybe putting a transistor on the end of your shaft might qualify as "technical" to some, but I don't see it.)

This thread doesn't really fit in the LRL Forum either, since those are machines (using the term loosly).

Parhaps a new forum is in order for this kind of stuff. And you just know I'd love to be the first to suggest a name for such a forum, but I'm kinda new here and don't want get too offensive right off the bat!

[diggerbarns]

What I have always wondered about Dowsing is this.

If you get two of these L shaped rods.
Then you get a lenght of wood or metal say 30 inches long
and drill 2 holes in the wood or metal say 3 inches in from each end
and then put your rods in these holes, so that they can't be tilted
will they still cross over

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by MojaveRed

This thread doesn't really fit in the LRL Forum either, since those are machines (using the term loosly).

I don't have a forum for LRLs per se, but a more general "Remote Sensing" forum, which is more appropriate.

If you get two of these L shaped rods.
Then you get a lenght of wood or metal say 30 inches long
and drill 2 holes in the wood or metal say 3 inches in from each end
and then put your rods in these holes, so that they can't be tilted
will they still cross over

You mean... like the pic below? I built a rigid frame that holds 2 L-rods with the handles exactly parallel. It effectively kills the response of the rods.

If you get the rods exactly level or slightly tilted upwards, with some effort you can get them to cross, but it's very erratic and inconsistent. If the frame does not make the handles exactly parallel, then it gets a bit easier to make them cross.

But with the handles parallel, and the rods ever so slightly tilted downwards, they never ever cross.

- Carl

[diggerbarns]

Well that's funny because I was thinking of a similar test, and I am a few thousand miles away. Could there be an ionic connection between our brains.

What I didn't think of was that if the operator of such a setup waited until the rods pointed inwards slightly, and then tilted the frame backwards the rods would appear to cross.

[Carl-NC]

If you make the jig such that the tops of the handles are slightly tilted in, then you will find the rods will cross inward as you raise them to level. If the tops of the handles are slightly tilted out, then you will find the rods will cross outward as you raise them to level. It's a fun experiment, because it shows how easily you can prove dowsing is all wrist action.

- Carl

[MojaveRed]

Carl's instrument shown in the photo above can serve as a launching point for the serious experimenter who would establish both a firm technical grounding for dowsing and a place for himself in the annals of science:

The experimenter will need to equip himself with a shirt sporting epaulets.

Next, the experimenter will need to wrap 40 yards of 28 AWG 19/40 stranded tinned copper wire encased in a bright orange polyvinyl chloride insulation around his head, just at the top of the ears and across the eyebrows, so that the plane of the coil thus formed contains the temporal lobes of his brain -- this is very important.

The coil must then be secured to the head by applying a dab of epoxy between the eyes, taking care that about 2 feet if "pigtail" remains free.

The two pigtail leads are then to be passed, one under each of the epaulets which serve to hold the leads in place, taped to the forearms and then soldered, one lead to each of the two rods at their 90 degree bends.

Having thus established a connection between the Earth, the rods (as intermediary), and the mind of Man, entirely new vistas of discovery will be opened to the experimenter.

Well, whatever: let us know how this works out fer ya.

Red

PS And don't ferget ya heard it from ol' Red.

[okantex]

hi carl

why do not you fill your rods with negative ions?when a person holds it with bare hand (there must not be holding pipes on it (because it is nonconductive))static electricity flows to end of rods.one of static electric rules.
and Cu in soil is positive +2 (inner parts of matterial does not oxidies ,outer is notr)
why not to cross?
is this a good puzzle?

[J_Player]

Dowsing is one of the least understood phenomena in treasure hunting. I am an engineer who thought it was a bunch of bunk until I made a search to find the most promising methods of finding treasure. I still believe a lot of the lore about dowsing is bunk, but the practice of dowsing does work for some people. It seems that some people are better able to dowse and discriminate what they have located than others.

During my search for a way to locate gold, I came across a book called "the divining hand" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/092...72136?n=283155 , which had some very revealing information about the technical details of dowsing. This book also has a chapter about a German rocket scientist who built an electronic machine that works on the same principle that dowsers use. When I contacted the inventor of this machine, he demonstrated it, and he also showed me his own dowsing rods, which were identical to yours, except no gold soldered on the ends. He made them himself from copper wire and wooden dowels drilled through in the middle. He told me he used them as backup in cases whern his machine was malfunctioning.

The principle he described is the same as what is explained in the book "The Divining Hand". He says there are weak traces of gamma radiation that come up from the earth's surface. Where there is an anomoly such as a stream of water, a cave, an ore deposit or other object that is dissimilar to the surrounding earth, these gamma emanations are concentrated at the edges. ie: at the edges of an underground stream, there is a wall of concentrated gamma energy rising up in a vertical plane. Some people are more sensitive to these areas of strong gamma energy. According to the theeory, these emanations cause a sensitive person's muscles to twitch, and their heaert beat to increase. This in turn causes the muscles in the arms to tighten and make the rods tilt. There may be some component of autosuggestion involved, but according to the theory, this principle of tightening muscles works in locations where the dowser does not know what is under the ground. It should be also noted that in areas where there is strong gamma energy emanating up from the ground, it is considered very unhealthy to spend a lot of time there, as these areas are where researchers have found very high incidence of diseases and people feeling generally uncomfortable (this means you dont want your bed to be located over a place where 3 underground streams cross).

Here is a web page that explains some of the details in a little more depth, based mostly on the information from the book "The Divining Hand": http://www.sunherb.com/geopathic_stress.htm

All of what I described above is theory, and has no basis in fact, except the data that was collected by researchers, and the machine that the German scientist built on this principle, which can locate gold under the earth. I describe this machine in more detail in a neighboring forum: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...d.php4?t=11342

Hope my reply helped.

[Jim]

Why do you suppose this “phenomena” only affects the arm muscles? In theory, this “phenomena” could cause the leg muscles to tighten, and cause one to walk around in circles, or possibly make the eye muscles tighten to the point of seeing cross-eyed.

Utilizing the theory you have presented us with, everyone living within a quarter-mile of buried treasure would be walking around in circles, cross-eyed.

Jim

[Qiaozhi]

If you type "dowsing" in the google search engine, the first hit is a site called http://www.mystical-www.co.uk/dowsing.htm - not exactly what you might call "scientific".

According to this site "dowsing" is scientifically known as radioesthesia, and is the interaction of the mind of the dowser and the energy of the object of interest.

There is even a masters course in Radioesthesia, put on by the American Society of Dowsers, of Danville, Connecticut. Plus a reference to specialized training in intuitive detection, and the method of psychometry.

Following this intriguing piece of information, I then found that in parapsychology, psychometry is a psi (or psychic) ability in which the user is able to relate details about the past condition of an object or area, usually by being in close contact with it.

My goodness! There's a whole new world out there I've heard about!

[J_Player]

"Why Why do you suppose this “phenomena” only affects the arm muscles?"

It is my understanding that the phenomenon does not affect only the arm muscles. When a sensitive person passes over an area of higher-than-average gamma radiation, his whole body is stressed, and there are probably numerous muscles tensing as a stress reaction. But the rods in his hands tend to amplify the small movement of the hands to make it more easily discernable. According to the theories, this stress reaction occurs because these are generally harmful emmisions coming from the earth, and I suppose this is a natural response, much like muscles tensing when you get too close to a fire. I read that there are metals that can act as a shield so the dowser is no longer affected by the emanations from the ground. Read "The Divining hand" for lots of details about this, as well as objects above the ground that tend to concentrate and re-direct these emmisions.

I know very little about radiosthesia, map dowsing and that sort of thing. It may have some scientific basis in fact, but I can't imagine what basis. What I do know is what Dr. Bickel taught me when he described how his long distance locating machine worked. I have to believe him to some degree, because his machines are in the satellites that NASA uses to map the earth's mineral deposits.

Hi foxs ) Thit "unit" realy work,but only for find underground water streams!
Two sticks are made from Cu wire.Man must to have strong bio-field,in other case don't work!I use it to find water before dig well.

[Elie]

Originally Posted by J_Player

What I do know is what Dr. Bickel taught me when he described how his long distance locating machine worked.

So tell us what Dr. Bickel taught you.

[J_Player]

He taught me about the nature of matter and how gold and other elements came to be formed from the stage of a nebula to the solid materials under the surface of the earth. He told me from the point of view of a German astrophysicist what characteristics we can expect to find in the minerals under the earth. He went into some detail about radioisotopes and sub-atomic particles and energies. From there he explained how his long range locating machine worked. The explanation I posted in the forum is a simplified version of what his LRL machines measured. They did detect the presence of gamma radiation, but they did a lot more. His detectors were fitted with small computers that performed the function of gamma spectroscopy in conjunction with the sensor to identify what elements the probe was picking up. This was at a time before desktop computers were common. Most of the sampling circuitry was analog, with a digital section that did the computing. He also taught me the difference between what his machine was measuring and what dowsers are sensing when they "locate anomolies" in the ground. According to Dr. Bickel, the dowsers are not (in his opinion) sensing gamma radiation directly, but the effects it has on a number of naturally occurring fields that can be sensed on the surface of the earth. He explained the effects of underground streams in masking other anomolies below them, and how many of these naturally occuring fields are concentrated around the edges of an underground stream or other anomaly. He also explained that these naturally occuring fields are greatly influenced by physical objects aboove the ground (buildings, cars, etc.) as well as space energies (sunspots, ionosphere, cosmic radiation activities, etc.)

From what he taught me I concluded there is no simple science to dowsing, and if a person wanted to have a good grasp on how it works, then he would be well advised to learn more about the geophysics involved. For those who are not scientifically inclined, I would suggest that if they are sensitive to these fiields, they can still become quite sucessful at dowsing as long as they keep in mind that their results are not always repeatable, and subject to variations in the fields around them. Also I would caution that when they get a reaction in their dowsing instrument, they have no real way to know what exactly is causing that reaction until they excavate and find out for themselves. Perhaps it is not even something from below the ground.

The electronic machine that Dr. Bickel built was not subject to the natural fields at the surface of the earth nearly so much as a dowser is, because his machine was measuring gamma waves, not the fields they traveled through. Dr. Bickel was also a dowser, but he did not use any LRL dowsing machines. He preferred a simple pair of L rods he made from wire and 2 dowels.

If you want to know more of what Dr. Bickel taught me, you can read "The Divining Hand". It is a dated book, but the theories and explanations in that book are in fairly good agreement with what Dr. Bickel told me.

[Alexismex]

Hello forum,
Thank you J player for your explanation, many years ago i look for some info on the Dr.Bikel and now I know you who know personaly him , very interesting ... I read the book 15 years ago also very good book on the subject of radiesthesia ....to all the people who are saying : dowser is a joke I recommend always this book .In the internet you can see professional gamma ray geophysical analyser but it is very difficult to understand exactly How it work , the specification are very difficult to understand for a non geophysical man....but the question is :
These gamma detectors can detect gold ore at some distance in the soil for exemple 1 or 2 meters ???? I did not know and for the Bikel apparatus he tell in the book seven meters away but he did not say HOW DEEP ????
see: http://www.llnl.gov/str/September03/Becker.html
And for the mineoro : no-comments........
Alex

[J_Player]

Hahahahaaa...

I asked Dr. Bickel that same question. He put his 2 oz gold nugget on the ground and it did not register on his machine. I can tell you his machine is not good for finding a gold coin 2 meters away. It is best used to locate large gold or other ore deposits under the earth that is measured by the tons. By placing the gold a few meters from the machine, the gamma energy does not increase to a noticable amount because the machine is sensing gamma waves very deep under the ground in a cone-shaped pattern. The nugget is only one small part of the tons if materials that the machine sees. What the machine can see the most easily is when a large deposit of mineral is below the ground. This machine is best used when flying in a grid pattern over a large area of earth, then look at the areas of the land that gave higher readings. This is where you will likely find ore deposits. It is also good to have an understanding of how the anomolies under the ground can interfere with the reading so you know to compensate for bodies of underground water etc when looking for gold or oil or other minerals.

If this machine could be used as a nugget locator, then those who owned the machine would all be rich.