Lrl from Italy - Page 38

dream_man · #**926** 07-02-2016, 10:26 AM

Thanks dear Franco.

Napsterce · #**927** 07-02-2016, 08:08 PM

The lrl is tested at 3 places, 1 place without results, the other 2 places got all 3 led's glowing at gain set to 40-50% and sensibility set to 40-50%. The results are not 100% sure because it's not on a test field.

Franco i have two questions for you, how to tune the lrl to be sure it's not catching false signals and should i make a pcb with different values for L1 and C10 like in the picture? Thank you.

pigeon · #**928** 07-03-2016, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napsterce

The lrl is tested at 3 places, 1 place without results, the other 2 places got all 3 led's glowing at gain set to 40-50% and sensibility set to 40-50%. The results are not 100% sure because it's not on a test field.

Franco i have two questions for you, how to tune the lrl to be sure it's not catching false signals and should i make a pcb with different values for L1 and C10 like in the picture? Thank you.

hi

I do not see any picture

Napsterce · #**929** 07-03-2016, 02:19 AM

Sorry, some problem with uploading, here it is.

pigeon · #**930** 07-03-2016, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napsterce

Sorry, some problem with uploading, here it is.

thank you

FrancoItaly · #**931** 07-03-2016, 10:17 AM

Hi Napsterce,

I did it this way: instead of C10 I used a 22pF variable capacitor and then I soldered in parallel the 22pF capacitor and so I covered a range from a few pF to 44pF. It is to keep in mind that there is always the base/emitter capacitance of TR2 (about 10pF) in parallel to C10. Same procedure for L1, first I sold L1 with 4 turns and I vary the capacity of C10, then I sold L1 with 3 turns and so on. I use a soldering iron 12V powered.
What can disturb LRL are radio frequency transmitters located nearby and there is no way to eliminate them. Regarding the compass effect should decrease the sensitivity. It is possible that by varying L1 / C10 can be achieved a reduction of this effect without decreasing the sensitivity.

Best regards

FrancoItaly · #**932** 07-03-2016, 04:04 PM

You may use also a varactor diode instead of C10.

Napsterce · #**933** 07-03-2016, 07:43 PM

Thankyou Franco, i will test on a test field soon.

dream_man · #**934** 07-04-2016, 07:24 AM

Hello dear Franco;
what range of the output voltage is more comfortable for this circuit? .. 1 volt? or 2..3..4..5?
I've configured two 1pF capacitors in series and have 1 volt output.. Is it ok? .. or I need to remove one of them to increase the output voltage?

FrancoItaly · #**935** 07-04-2016, 09:46 AM

Hi dream man,

In the sensor stage the purpose is to obtain the maximum amplification but without there being self oscillation. If you used BC...C transistors I think that the gain is enough, then is necessary to act on the amplitude of 8MHz signal which goes to the base of TR2. The total value of C2, C3 and C4 is added to the parasitic capacitance of the PCB, in a case I did not use capacitors but only the capacitance of two neighboring tracks of the PCB and in another case, two twisted wires. So you should remove C3 and C4 and for C2 you should find the right value for an output of about 5 - 6V.

Best regards

dream_man · #**936** 07-04-2016, 10:20 AM

Thank you dear Franco for replying. So you mean that 1volt is low for output of sensor and must be between 5 to 6 volt?

Napsterce · #**937** 07-04-2016, 10:21 AM

I made two lrl's by Franco's schematics and they have output 5 to 6 volts and when i touch the antenna it decreases. If I am correct if treasure is found the voltage will drop even lower and maybe to 0 volts, is that correct Franco?

FrancoItaly · #**938** 07-04-2016, 10:43 AM

Hi dream man,

Yes but perhaps the lrl could work well with only 1V. 5V ensure that we have the maximum possible gain.

Best regards

FrancoItaly · #**939** 07-04-2016, 10:43 AM

Hi Napsterce,

No the presence of the target is marked by an increase of the signal.

Best Regards

dream_man · #**940** 07-04-2016, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

Hi dream man,

Yes but perhaps the lrl could work well with only 1V. 5V ensure that we have the maximum possible gain.

Best regards

Thanks Franco. Cheers

mustefa ubram · #**941** 07-05-2016, 10:22 AM

hi franco
Is there a difference between the output voltage in the face of a large and small target ?

For example, the maximum output voltage of the sensor for a coin is 6 volts and for a 20cm*20cm is 8 volts?Or is else?

Which parameters in this circuit is always fixed for various targets?
the minimum distance between the target and sensor For a coin dating back 500 years Subsoil and a large target 1 year old Subsoil output voltage is equal?
Or against the large target is always higher voltage And old creates only more sensitive?

best wish

FrancoItaly · #**942** 07-05-2016, 10:40 AM

Hi mustefa,

Unfortunately I have little experience with the LRL in the real research so I can not answer any of your questions. I decided to publish my LRL because other members of the forum could help develop this project not only to improve but also to better understand the behavior on real field.

Best Regards

FrancoItaly · #**943** 07-06-2016, 11:11 AM

As several new members of this forum have asked me privately tips for building my LRL, want to do a little summary about its construction and calibration.
The quartz and TR1 constitute the internal oscillator, TR2 is the mixer to which the 8Mhz signal arrives along with the "phenomenon" picked up by the antenna. TR2, TR3 and TR4 are the high gain amplifier, TR5 takes the signal (rectified by diodes) with high impedance and on the emitter there is the signal with low impedance. R15, R16, C17 and C18 are a low pass filter that cancels signal residues at 8 Mhz. I repost schematic and PCB. It's better to use a double face PCB, on one side we sold the components and the other side there is the shield
connected to ground, to avoid self oscillations. It's preferable to use transistors type BC...C because the high beta (gain), I use BC183C because I have a lot but work well also BC549C, BC109C, BC239C and others. All sensor stage is powered by 12V stabilized. For the first test do not connect quartz then look at out point, the DC voltage must be 0V. If not the stage is self oscillating then you must decrease the gain by changing C13 and C14 (from 560pF to 470pF or less) until there are no more oscillations.
Now connect quartz and measure out voltage, if the voltage is yet 0 you have to control the emitter of TR1, if the oscillator is ok it must be a 8Mhz signal of few volts peak to peak, otherwise change C1, for example from 330pf to 470pF or more. Signal out is better in the range 5-6V, if it is more then 6V you have to decrease C2,C3 and C4, sometimes it's sufficient the parasitic capacitance of PCB (removing C2, C3 and C4) or you can use instead of C2-C3-C4 two wires of about 6 cm twisted between them. If signal out is less than 5V you have to increase c2-C3-C4, for example if you use only C2 you have 1pF, if you use only c3-C4 connected in series you have 0.5 pF and so. To test if everything is ok touch the antenna and the out must decrease (100 - 200 mV or more). The target is signaled by an increase of the output voltage.

FrancoItaly · #**944** 07-06-2016, 11:21 AM

oops I forgot schematic and pcb

FrancoItaly · #**945** 07-06-2016, 04:17 PM

I want to add that the sensor stage is very sensitive and must maintain his calibration away from electromagnetic sources of interference. The same measuring instruments affect the function. I recommend using the oscilloscope only to control the operation of the oscillator, but not use it to measure the amplitude of the signal on the collector of TR3 and TR4, as this will radically change the output signal. The only useful measure without "side effects" it's the DC voltage at output of sensor stage. A useful indicator of good functioning is that the DC output is stable, but if there is superimposed an oscillation of a few hertz or more this means that there is a self-oscillation. I want to mention in passing that this LRL, in the first version, was a RF sniffer that self oscillated, but the output was stable and, quite by accident, I realized that functioned as LRL.

Napsterce · #**946** 07-06-2016, 08:29 PM

Hello Franco, this is my pcb layout by your pcb hand drawing, it's not double sided, how should i shield it? The small pcb is display stage, will it make some problems to be like this or should i remove it from there? If you notice some irregularities please tell me. I am using 12v battery but it is not regulated and the voltage is 12.47 and keeps going down as i use the lrl (i don't use it more than 12v), should i put a regulator or is it ok like this? Thank you.

FrancoItaly · #**947** 07-07-2016, 10:16 AM

Hi Napsterce,

the shield is not strictly necessary, but you can use a foil of aluminum glued on the lower part of PCB or another PCB. I advise against the use of a 12V battery which feeds directly the sensor stage and the other circuits, You have to use 2 X 9V batteries (then 18V in total) and a 7812 (IC stabilizer), I repost here the schematic. The display stage close to sensor stage do not create problems, but for me it's important hold your hand quite far from sensor stage then I recommend using a long enough handle (25-30 cm).

Best Regards

Napsterce · #**948** 07-07-2016, 10:45 AM

Hi Franco, i have aluminium foil which is with glue (it's like duct tape but it is made from aluminium), i will glue it to the bottom side of the pcb and i will connect it to ground (battery negative). Also i am in process of building the second lrl and in the second one i will made the 2x9v battery power supply with 7812 IC and i will make a comparation which one is better. I'm giving the lrl's names N°1 and N°2. N°1 will be with 2x9v power supply, L1 = 3 turns and C10 = 22pF. N°2 will be with 12v battery, L1 = 2-4 turns and C10 = 22pF + 22pF variable capacitor. Why you advise against using 12v battery? The voltage is stable, it needs at least 1 hour using to reduce the voltage from 12.47v to 12.20v. Also on N°1 u use stylus antenna 60cm and plastic handle 20cm long. N°2 is in process of building but the handle will be also 20-25cm long and a stylus antenna (still searching for it). Also wanted to ask you, how about connecting 60cm antenna on C9-C10-L1 (your antenna connector) and 3 smaller antennas (10-15cm) to TR2? Or to connect them together with the big antenna? Best regards.

FrancoItaly · #**949** 07-07-2016, 10:54 AM

If the battery voltage is stable use it as well, but I prefer the stabilization. Regarding the antennas I would try the one at a time.

Best Regards

afshin · #**950** 07-07-2016, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

As several new members of this forum have asked me privately tips for building my LRL, want to do a little summary about its construction and calibration.
The quartz and TR1 constitute the internal oscillator, TR2 is the mixer to which the 8Mhz signal arrives along with the "phenomenon" picked up by the antenna. TR2, TR3 and TR4 are the high gain amplifier, TR5 takes the signal (rectified by diodes) with high impedance and on the emitter there is the signal with low impedance. R15, R16, C17 and C18 are a low pass filter that cancels signal residues at 8 Mhz. I repost schematic and PCB. It's better to use a double face PCB, on one side we sold the components and the other side there is the shield
connected to ground, to avoid self oscillations. It's preferable to use transistors type BC...C because the high beta (gain), I use BC183C because I have a lot but work well also BC549C, BC109C, BC239C and others. All sensor stage is powered by 12V stabilized. For the first test do not connect quartz then look at out point, the DC voltage must be 0V. If not the stage is self oscillating then you must decrease the gain by changing C13 and C14 (from 560pF to 470pF or less) until there are no more oscillations.
Now connect quartz and measure out voltage, if the voltage is yet 0 you have to control the emitter of TR1, if the oscillator is ok it must be a 8Mhz signal of few volts peak to peak, otherwise change C1, for example from 330pf to 470pF or more. Signal out is better in the range 5-6V, if it is more then 6V you have to decrease C2,C3 and C4, sometimes it's sufficient the parasitic capacitance of PCB (removing C2, C3 and C4) or you can use instead of C2-C3-C4 two wires of about 6 cm twisted between them. If signal out is less than 5V you have to increase c2-C3-C4, for example if you use only C2 you have 1pF, if you use only c3-C4 connected in series you have 0.5 pF and so. To test if everything is ok touch the antenna and the out must decrease (100 - 200 mV or more). The target is signaled by an increase of the output voltage.

Hi Dear Franco
thank you for guidance members, you described your lrl parts how do work except one,and that is L1,C10 filter role.If this lrl works in 8 Mhz but this LC frequency is high about 100Mhz,is it low pass filter or high pass or band pass or band stop filter? What is it role? And if we eliminate it what will happen?
Thank you