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#51
03-18-2008, 10:56 PM
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So little, so late!
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Estaban, you are a wise man, gracious enough to cater to the demands of unappreciative, dis-respectful fools. I respect the value of your knowledge you so freely share. Thank You! Dell 
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#52
03-18-2008, 11:33 PM
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Dell, thanks very much.
Max, respect why iron targets aren't undetectable (sometimes yes!) is in relation with quantity of wire you use in coil. My general norm is few wire for non ferrous and much wire for ferrous + magnetic core. But OK, I use magnetic core (with very few wire) also here, but aluminium loop is very low impedance and closed gain more, this is the primary. Secondary is small ferrite core. Also great advantage is this: through the time iron targets degenerate in oxide and don't create the enough electric field, but good conductive target mantain this field as a charged battery. Remember, here also there are some chemist process between soil and targets. I don't hear directly in speaker or phones, variation of voltage I convert in audible rapid and short tone.
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#53
03-19-2008, 12:48 AM
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Phew! Thanks Dell!
Dell,
No harm done, I was just surprised that's all. JP, my multi-sensor project is down on the priority list right now. As usual too darn many irons in the fire (I must have adult ADD or something). Too be honest when I'm on my days off I go out placer mining and prospecting. Just bought my 3rd Mercury Sniffer off ebay (Johnson-Williams/Bacharach S-1) as the other 2 need work (bought the previous 2 for ~$70 each and one of them is a Jerome 411 that just needs filters and the Bacharach MV2 that drifts). What I'm going to work on now is make up stakes with wires for the Associated Research "Vibroground" 4 terminal resistivity meter and start practicing. I'm into this Ancient River location that has multiple Ancient River formations from the different epochs and time to get really serious about using Geophysics to track down the best spots within these deposits. I also have a TDS meter so were into Geochemical aspect and for detecting the black sand I just use my White's MXT which over the years has proven effective time after time. Did I mention I'm working on my vertical for 160+1750 meters? Sometimes I wish I was wealthy and could retire early so I can knock these projects off more quickly and still have time for my family. I'll be ordering a development type 8051 board that goes with the book this guy wrote so I can have a 2nd try at learning to program (got sidetracked after getting half way through when I attempted to take a Cisco class-BORING!). I love assembly so that will be something I can do at work with my managements blessing and will be for the multisensor detector. Randy
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#55
03-19-2008, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
 I can see where you're going with your multi-detector concept. I may be going that route on a project I have been tinkering with after I get the analog version details worked out. It would simplify some critical timing setpoints in the transistor circuitry by replacing the signal circuits with more stable digital timing. But I have the same problem with time for the learning curve before I can actually apply DSP. Maybe you can get Dell to help you go straight to the placer deposits instead of spending so much time building instruments to map the ancient river beds first. Last time I heard, all it took was a few photos of the site to locate the treasure with a pendulum. Be sure to post photos of your first handful of nuggets when you make your strike.  Best wishes, J_P
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#56
03-19-2008, 01:34 AM
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BFO-LRL
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Yes,i will put schematic as soon as possible ,for him. As you can see,i build this device long time ago,its very easy to build ,but i said to Detectoman Gold coin 50 m distance,it was a joke  This device is more usefull as +&- ion locator than treasure hunting...Its some kind of zahory+BFO. Regards
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#57
03-19-2008, 01:42 AM
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Zahori + BFO is a good if it finds aluminum cans from long distance farther than a metal detector. This is why Clondike Clad wants to build it. It can be used for long range farther than a metal detector will work. If he builds it, then maybe he will discover a method to make it discriminate gold. If he can do this, then maybe you will be happy he made the circuit, and maybe he will post the circuit for gold classifier. Thank you for helping with your LRL circuit. Best wishes, J_P
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#58
03-19-2008, 10:17 AM
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All this information
BUT NO WORKING CIRCUITS ON THIS FORUM????????????????????????????????????...NOT ONE WORKING CIRCUIT.
HOW DO A GUY LEARN IF NO ONE WON'T HELP HIM. ......................ALL I WANT TO SEE IS A SIMPLE WORKING LRL CIRCUIT TO PICK UP A COIN AT 2 METERS NOT 30 METERS OR EVEN A MILE AWAY. ...........................JUST A SIMPLE CIRCUIT FOR 2 METERS ON A COIN.....
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#59
03-19-2008, 01:29 PM
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#60
03-19-2008, 11:26 PM
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LRL who works
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The Pistoldetektor circuit works. Only need to find coil and ferrite solution regards
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#61
03-20-2008, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
 LRL isn't serious! Just like a rod.
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#62
03-20-2008, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
 Best wishes, J_P
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#63
03-20-2008, 12:53 AM
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This is how a bet works...I hope you are right, that would be nice, but you have to prove it if you expect others to believe in it too... I am trying to find out if it works.I am making experiments, as untill now nobody could prove anything.When i´m finished i will know...maybe. Regards, Fred.
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#64
03-20-2008, 12:54 AM
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LRL-the future in MD
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I see a lot of pessimistic people here... Lets make some comparision. Before it was just radio,than television,and now we have,satelite TV, CD´s,DVD´s,and many other advanced stuff !!! If we tell to E.Engineers from the 50´s about all this new technology, who believe in you? NOBODY!!! Alonso start LRL some decades ago with some results, Now he as better devices.Who believe in this LRL? Only me,Esteban,Hung and a few more... Regards
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#65
03-20-2008, 01:00 AM
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The great CHALLENGE !!!
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#66
03-20-2008, 01:17 AM
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LRLs are not a logical progression from already established metal detector technology. They are a completely separate type of device based on pseudoscience.
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#67
03-20-2008, 01:53 AM
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Best wishes, J_P
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#68
03-20-2008, 02:27 AM
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#69
03-20-2008, 02:34 AM
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If i remember well,for example tunnel effect has been unexplained but explored for many years, and there is plenty o similar examples.It just works!  regards!, Fred.
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#70
03-20-2008, 02:45 AM
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quantum effect
I was trying to figure out how to excite quantum discharge from, say for instance, the gold atom. If a nearby lightning strike could impart energy for quantum leap and subsequent photon/wave release upon the atom's return to its normal state, the question is, what would be the appropriate frequency range (or ranges) that a receiver should be tuned to?
Atomic clocks make use of the quantum effect and are tuned to Cesium's quantum release wave frequency. Same idea.  I want (and need) to find gold. I may not be a scientist, but I can still dream, can't I?
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#71
03-20-2008, 03:22 AM
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It's just not scientific!!
[quote=Aziz;69160]Because,
you can not override the physics behind the nature! A serious engineer, with physics & math knowledge do not believe in detecting of anything at long distance. All the stuff of LRL is not serious engineering and science. Well.... ..we have been locating ships and aeroplanes over the horizon with EM waves since the 1930's. I paid a Highway Patrol policeman a lot of money for him to explain to me that his detector mounted on a high-speed vehicle could not only detect the presence of my car over a hill and around a corner but accurately measure it's relative velocity  We can detect the temperature and chemical composition of invisible stars millions of light years away by EM waves. Scientists have determined that photons reaching earth from that star remain in "communication" with the ones "back home". Recent experiments in Quantum Entanglement "measured" this communication at 10,000,000 x C. This is not magic, it's actually being used in cryptography including for some recent European federal elections. I do not doubt that LRL for treasure is "possible". Perhaps the level of technology applied to the problem is not yet sufficient for really consistent repeatable results. It is also likely that focussing on all the standard, basic, scientific rules and formulas and applications cannot produce results with sufficient accuracy. Just about every formula for electricity or energy has numerous additional factors and variables that are deemed insignificant and are left out of the basic formula to keep it 'simple" (Maxwell's corrections to Ohms law??) E=mCC Einstein knew about quantum entanglement but avoided it because to was too "spooky". If I remember correctly,C also slows down as we approach absolute zero degrees. Nothing is as simple as it appears. (engineers hate that, hence the fudge factor). The solution to LRL may be in looking for the "missing factors" or more likely still, the tiny, secondary, effects of the missing factors. I'm still looking Aurificus
__________________
The simplest answer to a complex problem.... is invariably wrong! 
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#72
03-20-2008, 03:45 AM
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Hi Aurificus,
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So any "ions" could not exist. Nor any effects on small pieces of gold. The signal-to-noise ratio is allready on the noise floor. Except, you find a big tank, ship or airplane made of pure gold.
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#73
03-20-2008, 05:06 AM
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Hi Aziz,
This is an really basic "example" of the 'hidden factors" I'm talking about. Skeptics Please Note: I am making this all up, there is no need to debate the facts, the method, the practicality or the science or lack of it. Assume: Gxxx is a metal with reasonable electrical and high thermal conductivity. Gxxx responds to EM radiation of a certain frequency emitted by an unknown source by converting some of the energy into heat. Buried Gxxx radiates this heat into the surrounding soil. The soil above the Gxxx has more moisture than below. The moisture absorbs the radiated heat and some of it turns into vapour. The vapour rises to the surface and creates an area of denser air vapour than the surroundings. EM radiation from another source is absorbed by this vapour and converted to more heat. A suitable detector tuned to the 2nd radiation frequency might detect the high vapour area as a hole in the general field. (Before the wind blows it away, ha! ha!) ie; we find the target by detecting the absence of signal due to a secondary, or tertiary effect that is resulting from an insignificant (assumed) physical property of the Gxxx please don't yell at me! Aurificus
__________________
The simplest answer to a complex problem.... is invariably wrong!
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#74
03-20-2008, 05:08 AM
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Gold does not tend to any (chemical) reaction in the nature?
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In recent decades scientists have been studying strange micro-organisms that move gold and other metals through the soil. These microscopic bacteria and fungi can convert dissolved gold into solid gold, and visa versa. There are several mines where gold nuggets were found to have been manufactured by microbes that converted gold ions dissolved in the soil into metallic gold, precipitated on the face of a growing nugget. Does this sound hard to believe? If it is true, it means there are gold ions in the soil, and not just a few unmeasurable ions, but enough to make nuggets from. According to geomicrobiologist Frank Reith, "...the precipitation of gold by micro-organisms, and thus in the biomineralisation of gold, which as recent evidence suggests has led to the formation of some of the world largest gold deposits." But in addition to micro-organisms precipitating metallic gold, there are microbes that ionize and dissolve gold: "In soils with high contents of organic matter heterotrophic bacteria and fungi appear to dominate the gold dissolution by excreting amino acids, low molecular weight organic acids (LMWOAs), cyanide or organic sulfur compounds. These molecules were shown to have the ability to dissolve native gold and act as complexing agents for the resulting gold ions." Wet soil samples were incubated with these microbes, then gold pellets were added to the soil. After 20-30 days of incubation, up to 3 ppm of gold was found in solution, compared to none measurable in the sterilized soil samples with gold pellets. Now, how do atoms from a gold pellet get into solution? They have to become ionized first! Thus it cannot be true that buried gold does not form ions. We are talking about small amounts (3ppm), But this is the amount measured in some small sample test areas after a month in the ground. The investigations into mine sites from the real world show that this process can happen on a much larger scale, creating nuggets that are very pure where microbes precipitated the gold (98% and better). Not all gold nuggets are created by microbes. Many are formed with cooling molten rock masses. The gold formed by microbes is derived from these primary gold sources in the ground. But it has been discovered that there are many nuggets which have a rich outer gold shell, and a lower purity gold in the center. In some cases these were nuggets formed by molten gold cooling, then later, microbes deposited a layer of higher purity gold on the top surfaces. Because it takes some time for these microbes to ionize buried gold metal and put it in solution with the surrounding soil, it tells us that long time buried gold is different than fresh gold that was recently put in the ground. In addition, there are microbes that will attack the other metals alloyed with gold like silver, copper, platinum, etc. According to these studies, some soil is richer in these gold-eating microbes than other soil, so we can expect some soils to show a greater difference between fresh gold and long time buried gold. In the case of the other microbes that convert the ions back into gold metal, we will find gold nuggets that have ions around them being converted into metallic gold to precipitate and grow the nugget. These new gold nuggets may have similar halo properties as gold that is decomposing. Check here to read this article: http://crcleme.org.au/NewsEvents/New...USIMMReith.pdf Here are more web pages with information about gold microbes: Microbes manufacture gold nuggets: http://www.geotimes.org/sept06/NN_Microbes.html Electron micrographs of microbes moving gold associated with Au(III) reduction: http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/67/7/3275.pdf Microbes convert dissolved gold into solid metallic gold: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...0_goldbug.html http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1032376.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0802103513.htm Report says scientists have ascertained the microbe’s process converts approximately 1% of exposed gold per year. http://sandersresearch.com/index.php...171&Itemid=102 http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev32_3/amazing.htm http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...15_283189.html You will find thousands more reports on microbes that eat gold and other metals if you google for "gold microbe": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...be&btnG=Search So what do you think? Do these microbes help to locate long time buried gold and other non-ferrous metals? Is this a good case for "the halo effect" on long-time buried gold and coins?  In addition to those microbe processes, there are also some other chemical methods that allow gold and other metals to move through the soil in the form of ions. According to many studies made by oil and mineral exploration companies, metals in the ground will ionize, and the ions will move upward to the surface where they become bound with the surface constituents. Only after losing their ion status, these metal compounds continue with further migration laterally along the ground. What they are saying is trace amounts of ions form as buried metals and ores dissolve into the surrounding soil. From there, they move to the surface leaving a trail of ions and an area of ionized metal at the surface soil that marks the location of buried metal. Because these ions quickly neutralize at the surface, they do not move away from the source of the metal as an ion. Thus these are called "mobile metal ions" until they neutralize and cease to be ions at the surface. In essence, the presence of metal ions in the surface soil is an accurate pin pointer for metal and ores beneath the surface. Today there are a number of companies for hire to take measurements of metal ions at the surface to tell you what minerals are below. This technique is used to identify the presence of petroleum and other minerals including gold, copper, zinc, iron and others. Some reports show magnetic anomalies and halos as well as ionic anomalies in the soil measured above mineral deposits. A number of gold mining operations use this method to locate the gold below the soil. Check here to read more about these mobile metal ions rising to the surface to mark the location of buried metal or ore: http://www.mmigeochem.com/Mobilizing...ril%202001.pdf http://www.mmigeochem.com/frwelcome.htm http://www.innovation.wa.gov.au/Inno...bile_metal_ion http://geea.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/...stract/5/3/201 http://www.diggerresources.com/hdrg.htm http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._7/ai_n8682755 Google for measure "mobile metal ions" to read a lot more mining companies using this method: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...22&btnG=Search Of course these ions do not form and rise to the surface overnight. This can take many years, depending on the soil composition. So what do you think? Does this make you wonder if gold can react chemically in nature?
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#75
03-20-2008, 05:44 AM
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Plants also absorb and accumulate mineral ions, and lift them up above the ground level.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...u3x9mbek&hl=en Don't blame me, I read it on the internet, it must be true!  Aurificus
__________________
The simplest answer to a complex problem.... is invariably wrong!
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Linear Mode
