rangertell examiner field trials

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Still busy flogging a dead horse?

Hung is quite the gossiping Nancy. Bouncing back and forth between forums, as if what he has to say has any weight to it.

I own him....and didn't even have to go phishing

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I don't visit this site much any more, so I apologize for not making a reply to my name sooner.

I have never seen, tested , or used a RT examiner. I know nothing about it, so I am not qualified to comment on it. Carl, has more experience with the Ranger Tell, than I do. Your attempted interpretation of the laughing faces is totally inaccurate.

I don't have the ability to look at a photo and determine if a product works or not, or how it works, as some pretend to be able to do. I don't accept Carl's Duck criterion for evaluating an LRL, as credible.

It will be awhile before I visit here again, so I won't be responding to any reply Dell

Ok Dell,
You may be excused. Please don't let it happen again.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Jim

Another quick question for you, J_P (sorry to keep bothering you).....did your RangerTell device have a FCC ID number on it, or any FCC data contained within the owners manual that would indicate the device was approved for export into the Untied States, as per Part 15 and Federal Law?

Thanks again, Jim

I saw no FCC ID number on the Examiner. In fact you saw what I saw from the photos I posted. I could find no numbers anywhere except some silk screened on components.

I doubt the Examiner is subject to FCC ID, as it has no power source other than picking up induced signals broadcast by the calculator (I believe the calculator is approved for use in the USA). I would imagine the Examiner actually detects and emits signals in a similar fashion to a crystal radio, so whatever FCC requirements a crystal radio has would seem to be correct for the Examiner. But then I'm just guessing.

I receieved an email from the Rangertell factory rep stating they received the Examiner I returned.
They gave me permission to repost their email message, so here is what they said:
"The returned Examiner's coil required readjusting. Whether this occurred during transit or not is impossible to tell.
It works fine now but we’ve sent another to save time. This doesn’t happen often but it does occasionally. In these cases we replace free of charge.
There were also issues with the trimmer cap making the first experiments inaccurate".

I expect the replacement Examiner to arrive any day now judging from my previous experience with shipping from Australia.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

Originally Posted by J_Player

I saw no FCC ID number on the Examiner. In fact you saw what I saw from the photos I posted. I could find no numbers anywhere except some silk screened on components.

I doubt the Examiner is subject to FCC ID, as it has no power source other than picking up induced signals broadcast by the calculator (I believe the calculator is approved for use in the USA). I would imagine the Examiner actually detects and emits signals in a similar fashion to a crystal radio, so whatever FCC requirements a crystal radio has would seem to be correct for the Examiner. But then I'm just guessing.

I receieved an email from the Rangertell factory rep stating they received the Examiner I returned.
They gave me permission to repost their email message, so here is what they said:
"The returned Examiner's coil required readjusting. Whether this occurred during transit or not is impossible to tell.
It works fine now but we’ve sent another to save time. This doesn’t happen often but it does occasionally. In these cases we replace free of charge.
There were also issues with the trimmer cap making the first experiments inaccurate".

I expect the replacement Examiner to arrive any day now judging from my previous experience with shipping from Australia.

Best wishes,
J_P

Thanks for your reply. I assume there was no mention in the owners manual or instructions that the device was certified/verified/tested, by any agencies or by the manufactuerer in regards to being compliant to any standards. Understandable.

Part 15 is not specific as to how, or what drives the low-power transmitter. That would include a crystal driven transmitter, rubbing two sticks together or wishing really, really hard. A low power transmitter is just that. Unless, of course the low power transmitter doesn't actually transmit. The Part 15 would not apply

Good luck with the new unit.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Jim

Thanks for your reply. I assume there was no mention in the owners manual or instructions that the device was certified/verified/tested, by any agencies or by the manufactuerer in regards to being compliant to any standards. Understandable.

Part 15 is not specific as to how, or what drives the low-power transmitter. That would include a crystal driven transmitter, rubbing two sticks together or wishing really, really hard. A low power transmitter is just that. Unless, of course the low power transmitter doesn't actually transmit. The Part 15 would not apply

Good luck with the new unit.

From what I have read, the Examiner is not a transmitter, but a receiver. The signal that determines the resonant frequency tuning for the Examiner is derived from the EMI emissions from a nearby calculator as well as a low frequency millivolt signal from the operator's body. But the actual power that drives the Examiner circuit is derived from atmospheric static electric field differential between the antenna altitude and the ground path in the operator's hand. From what I read, the examiner does not send a signal. It receives a signal if one is present in the air at the resonant frequency it is tuned to. In essence, if you hold a hold a non-powered circuit board with an ariel soldered to it in your hand while your feet are on the ground, you are generating a similar amount of power and RF interference as the Examiner from another passive circuit into the atmosphere, which I suspect is below level of ambient EMI/RFI interference in the air.

Now, if you are suggesting that Part 15 would require the circuit board with an ariel soldered to it must have some FCC certification because the operator is holding it outside where there is a static voltage gradient in the air, then I would think all electronic circuits that are hand-held outside in the air must also have an FCC certificate. Maybe holding a piece of wire in the air must also have an FCC certificate. Somehow, I haven't yet seen any FCC stickers on the spools of wire at the supply houses, nor do I see FCC stickers on miniature crystal radio receivers, or sticks used to rub together to make fire. Maybe this is the reason why Part 15 is not specific to what equipment requires the approval. Maybe they want to require approvals only for circuits that use enough power to generate some interference above the ambient levels found in relatively quiet EMI areas (ie: devices that show measureable radiated power that could cause interference in consumer electronics). But then, I am only speculating. Perhaps you know better.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Hi JP,

I hope providence ha been taken so that "detuning" will not happen again, or else it could be an endless story.
On the other hand, that would explain the apparent success of ebay business

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi JP,

I hope providence ha been taken so that "detuning" will not happen again, or else it could be an endless story.
On the other hand, that would explain the apparent success of ebay business

Hi Fred,
I asked the Factory rep to personally test the replacement Examiner or have someone at the factory personally test it before sending it. I was told They will send a unit that has a fixed trimmer cap.
I presume this means the trimmer cap is adjusted at the factory to work for average users, and is somehow fixed so it cannot be adjusted to a different value.

Also, this time I will take precautions, such as not opening the examiner. This should eliminate any possibility of causing anything inside to become detuned or damaged after the Examiner arrives.
And with no trimmer cap to adjust, this leaves only three controls to be concerned about: The sensitivity adjustment, antenna length, and calculator key codes.

For an ordinary test scenario on a grass lawn or an open field, the procedure should be simple now. Simply extend the antenna by one segment, then enter the key code for the target you are searching for. And adjust the sensitivity before starting for the best response to the target. Of course there are other time consuming details to take care of such as bringing the test target items, the testing parafanalia, recording equipment, and checking the test area for trash that could cause a false signal. In spite of the time consuming details, testing should be easier than the previous attempts because we know there is no need to suspect a difficult trimmer cap adjustment must be made before the Examiner can become operational.

Best wishes,
J_P

[osman]

If, rangertell, everyone can use, in a way
precise, measurable, adjustable.
if.
better, would have imagined.
Each device, unfortunately, there are weaknesses.
many, I used the device.
Most of the money trap.
(Through radio, out) $ 1,650
who make and sell on this site, these pages frequently writes.
Do not write a word of criticism badly.
A device with work, I think if you can get.
To critics, up to a point.
What systems of land, which the technology, to treasure the most information, data, gives.
bilgisi.olan experience for the open front.
A simple flip-flop circuit, + tip dipped into the soil, better than many MFD.

osman

[hung]

Originally Posted by J_Player

From what I have read, the Examiner is not a transmitter, but a receiver. The signal that determines the resonant frequency tuning for the Examiner is derived from the EMI emissions from a nearby calculator as well as a low frequency millivolt signal from the operator's body. But the actual power that drives the Examiner circuit is derived from atmospheric static electric field differential between the antenna altitude and the ground path in the operator's hand. From what I read, the examiner does not send a signal. It receives a signal if one is present in the air at the resonant frequency it is tuned to.

Best wishes,
J_P

No. You are mistaken on this. The device actually transmits and receives. Alignment of the swiveling antenna is acomplished by induced polarization.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by hung

No. You are mistaken on this. The device actually transmits and receives. Alignment of the swiveling antenna is acomplished by induced polarization.

I am beginning to like your sense of humor, Hung

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

No. You are mistaken on this. The device actually transmits and receives. Alignment of the swiveling antenna is acomplished by induced polarization.

No. You are also mistaken. Alignment of the swiveling antenna is accomplished by the ideomotor effect, not by any pseudo-scientific gobbledygook explanation.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by hung

No. You are mistaken on this. The device actually transmits and receives. Alignment of the swiveling antenna is acomplished by induced polarization.

According to what is written in the Rangertell factory manual your statement is not correct. Based only on what the factory manual says, the Examiner detects signals in the air in a similar manner to a radio tuning signals in the air that are at the same frequency as the receiver is set to. In other words, the factory is saying the Examiner is a receiver, not a transmitter. In fact there is no place in the manual where the Examiner is claimed to transmit anything. Nor is it claimed to incorporate any of the principles of induced polarization. But then you are aware that induced polarization requires two or more probes in the ground, and a high voltage/high current power supply which is often provided by a portable generator, and electronics that measures the phase variations between the current in remote ground probes connected to the power source. I see no high power equipment in any Rangertell products used to inject high voltage into remote ground probes or circuits to measure phase information travelling through the conductors from the remote probes.
More importantly, you are now contradicting your previous statements where you definitely described how the Examiner works:

Originally posted by hung
"This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned". http://geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=41226#post41226

Most of the world is believing your earlier teachings of shooting signal lines, not your new induced polarization teaching. I am suspecting your new induced polarization teaching is false infornation you are posting to confuse the readers of this forum. We all know induced polarization methods cannot be accomplished in a hand-held device that is not connected to two or more ground probes.

.... Unless.... it is working through advanced radionics techniques known only to paranormal people...

Originally posted by hung
"The Examiner is clearly a radionic device.
Now if you don't believe in radionics, dowsing, zahoris, UFOs, etc. it's another thing and you have all the right to do it and it's your prvillege too".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=64567#post64567

I have heard stories where some operators of UFOs are able to accomplish feats that appear to be magic to normal earth people...

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

Originally Posted by J_Player

From what I have read, the Examiner is not a transmitter, but a receiver. The signal that determines the resonant frequency tuning for the Examiner is derived from the EMI emissions from a nearby calculator as well as a low frequency millivolt signal from the operator's body. But the actual power that drives the Examiner circuit is derived from atmospheric static electric field differential between the antenna altitude and the ground path in the operator's hand. From what I read, the examiner does not send a signal. It receives a signal if one is present in the air at the resonant frequency it is tuned to. In essence, if you hold a hold a non-powered circuit board with an ariel soldered to it in your hand while your feet are on the ground, you are generating a similar amount of power and RF interference as the Examiner from another passive circuit into the atmosphere, which I suspect is below level of ambient EMI/RFI interference in the air.

Now, if you are suggesting that Part 15 would require the circuit board with an ariel soldered to it must have some FCC certification because the operator is holding it outside where there is a static voltage gradient in the air, then I would think all electronic circuits that are hand-held outside in the air must also have an FCC certificate. Maybe holding a piece of wire in the air must also have an FCC certificate. Somehow, I haven't yet seen any FCC stickers on the spools of wire at the supply houses, nor do I see FCC stickers on miniature crystal radio receivers, or sticks used to rub together to make fire. Maybe this is the reason why Part 15 is not specific to what equipment requires the approval. Maybe they want to require approvals only for circuits that use enough power to generate some interference above the ambient levels found in relatively quiet EMI areas (ie: devices that show measureable radiated power that could cause interference in consumer electronics). But then, I am only speculating. Perhaps you know better.

Best wishes,
J_P

Thanks for your reply.

I read that the device has a resonant frequency amplification circuit. That's an awesome feat of engineering for a calculator!?

Maybe the Buc's will go to the Superbowl this year (adding to the maybe-feast)

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Jim

Thanks for your reply.

I read that the device has a resonant frequency amplification circuit. That's an awesome feat of engineering for a calculator!?

Maybe the Buc's will go to the Superbowl this year (adding to the maybe-feast)

A length of tubing will appear to amplify any sound at the resonant frequency of the tube even though there is no power circuitry involved. When you hold a tube to your ear, only the resonant frequency sounds will become louder than the rest, if there are resonant frequency sounds in the air.

From what I gather, the Examiner amplification is not done by power amplifiers such as transistors, but by allowing a resonant circuit to oscillate at its resonant frequency and tune any signals at the same frequency, same as a crystal radio tunes resonant frequencies. I suppose this is Rangertell's way of saying their resonant frequency circuitry amplifies tiny electronic signals in the air if they are present.

Awseome feat?
Nah, it's been done with crystal radios decades ago.

But with a calculator?
Maybe. I can run some tests to see if there is any calculator signal coupled into the Examiner circuitry, as well as check for frequencies from the calculator if you want.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

Originally Posted by J_Player

A length of tubing will appear to amplify any sound at the resonant frequency of the tube even though there is no power circuitry involved. When you hold a tube to your ear, only the resonant frequency sounds will become louder than the rest, if there are resonant frequency sounds in the air.

From what I gather, the Examiner amplification is not done by power amplifiers such as transistors, but by allowing a resonant circuit to oscillate at its resonant frequency and tune any signals at the same frequency, same as a crystal radio tunes resonant frequencies. I suppose this is Rangertell's way of saying their resonant frequency circuitry amplifies tiny electronic signals in the air if they are present.

Awseome feat?
Nah, it's been done with crystal radios decades ago.

But with a calculator?
Maybe. I can run some tests to see if there is any calculator signal coupled into the Examiner circuitry, as well as check for frequencies from the calculator if you want.

Best wishes,
J_P

A length of tube makes a great circuit. I guess the same could be said for sea shells.

Some calculator signal tests would be nice, kinda surprised you didn't do any with the first Examiner.

Later, Jim

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Jim

A length of tube makes a great circuit. I guess the same could be said for sea shells.

Some calculator signal tests would be nice, kinda surprised you didn't do any with the first Examiner.

Later, Jim

Tubes are only used for resonant cavities in a very few electronic circuits that are not generally related to passive receivers. Tubes are more commonly used in acoustic applications such as pipe organs, xylophones, shotgun microphones and other acoustic applications where a sound frequency is to be boosted by a resonating tube. It is amazing people will post technical BS in a technical forum such as tubes and sea shells making a great circuit. It brings to mind the quality of teachings from the famous post where we were told that gold DNA produces a substance that coats the metal to fight rust and oxidation.

Actually I did make some tests on the calculator with the first Examiner. When the new Examiner arrives, I will put it and the calculator on the scope to see what signals are there.

Best wishes,
J_P

[hung]

No. I did not contradict myself. You will eventually have your answers in the long run if you study it and make tests.

How are you going to measure signals and emissions?
Answer: The same way you would in the case of radionics machines.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Tubes are only used for resonant cavities in a very few electronic circuits that are not generally related to passive receivers. Tubes are more commonly used in acoustic applications such as pipe organs, xylophones, shotgun microphones and other acoustic applications where a sound frequency is to be boosted by a resonating tube. It is amazing people will post technical BS in a technical forum such as tubes and sea shells making a great circuit. It brings to mind the quality of teachings from the famous post where we were told that gold DNA produces a substance that coats the metal to fight rust and oxidation.

Actually I did make some tests on the calculator with the first Examiner. When the new Examiner arrives, I will put it and the calculator on the scope to see what signals are there.

Best wishes,
J_P

Sorry....you brought up the sound frequency/ tube BS and I was just rolling with it. Whatever it takes to find treasure :::shrugs:::

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Jim

Sorry....you brought up the sound frequency/ tube BS and I was just rolling with it. Whatever it takes to find treasure :::shrugs:::

What I brought up was not BS, I described a principle that is used regularly in acoustics, and a well known scientific principle. It is analogous to the principle of electronic resonance in a passive electronic circuit. You know this as well as most of the educated people who read this forum. If you are attempting to pretend you are too dum to know that, it didn't work on me, or I doubt on any other person who passed high school science classes.

I will keep in mind your pretentious attitude against well established science when considering any posts you make in the future.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by hung

No. I did not contradict myself. You will eventually have your answers in the long run if you study it and make tests.

How are you going to measure signals and emissions?
Answer: The same way you would in the case of radionics machines.

I can easily measure induced polarization phase angles. The problem is there is no induced polarization equipment on the Examiner for me to connect to and measure.

If you are certain you did not contradict yourself, then I do not have any instruments that can capture shot or returned signal lines or any radionic signals. Therefore I have no way to measure them. I can only measure signals that are electronic or magnetic in nature with the instruments I have. Maybe you could post something like a schematic of an instrument I can use to measure shot signal lines or returned signal lines. I will also need to know the tuning instructions for this alleged method and instructions for finding consistent measurement results from signals in the radionic spectrum.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Fred,

I was told They will send a unit that has a fixed trimmer cap.

In this case, you will also need fixed humidity otherwise the thing will not work.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by WM6

In this case, you will also need fixed humidity otherwise the thing will not work.

Can you elaborate?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Jim]

Originally Posted by J_Player

What I brought up was not BS, I described a principle that is used regularly in acoustics, and a well known scientific principle. It is analogous to the principle of electronic resonance in a passive electronic circuit. You know this as well as most of the educated people who read this forum. If you are attempting to pretend you are too dum to know that, it didn't work on me, or I doubt on any other person who passed high school science classes.

I will keep in mind your pretentious attitude against well established science when considering any posts you make in the future.

Best wishes,
J_P

Wow. I feel as though I just got a Dell Winders lambasting.

I make mention "I read that the device has a resonant frequency amplification circuit" and get some sort of spin-off about sound frequency and a hollow tube. One has nothing to do with the other.

Yes, please keep in mind not everybody is grasping for straws, when discussing flawed logic

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Jim

Wow. I feel as though I just got a Dell Winders lambasting.

I make mention "I read that the device has a resonant frequency amplification circuit" and get some sort of spin-off about sound frequency and a hollow tube. One has nothing to do with the other.

Yes, please keep in mind not everybody is grasping for straws, when discussing flawed logic

Are you now claiming you have no knowledge that a resonating acoustic tube is an analogy to a passive resonating circuit? Are you claiming this is the reason why you posted BS that a tube and a seashell make a good circuit? Shall we take it that you cannot understand any analogy of resonant frequencies and how they can be utilized to make a signal stronger than without resonating apparatus?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Can you elaborate?

Yes I can, but need detailed used calculator specifications first.