IR Lasing Gold

[homefire]

It's know that gold is a good reflector of IR radiation.

That is why they coat the space helmets visor with gold.

Why not just try the camera with a normal IR source.

See if you can pick out Hot Spots in a gravel bare.

A plane old Car head lamp works most well as a IR source.

If you hit them with just enough voltage to see a Red Visible glow on the Filament, You have a kick butt IR source.

I had a cheapo Russian IR Vision set I could see a hundred yard with that set up.

[Esteban]

"High purity gold reflects infrared (heat) energy almost completely, making it ideal for heat and radiation reflection. "

http://gold.yabz.com/facts.htm

In the same way, gold emits is own IR. So, to use IR for detect gold at distance is not a mistery... Maybe is better IR laser.

[Seden]

The quote done by Qiaozhi does indeed have to do with a couple methods of annealing the gold but that's not all the article puts forward. The point of the article is the discovery that gold does indeed have a photoluminescence propensity hence:
"Excitation of films with the 795 nm fundamental of a Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser produces a strong white luminescence. The analysis of the laser power dependence indicates that the gold nanoparticle emission is induced by the absorption of three NIR laser photons."
and yes here:
"Because of the transparency and reduced cell damage to human and animal tissues in the NIR spectral range, the multiphoton-induced photoluminescence of gold nanoparticles could become a powerful alternative to organic and semiconducting fluorophores in biological imaging."

Ok. "Mutiphoton-Induced Photoluminescence of gold" so it's not just another way to anneal the gold using IR as Qiaozhi quoted from the article.

Theseus, I had to virtually squeeze your head to get you to give me a technical answer even if it was just a quote from Qiaozhi. That's all I was asking as I don't claim to know it all or am I selling something. This post is about sharing information if someone has had practical experience or had studied Spectroscopy. See,that wasn't so painful was it? The dance has just begun between us so let's enjoy it shall we?

Ya'll have a nice day sir,

Randy

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Seden

The dance has just begun between us so let's enjoy it shall we?

Ya'll have a nice day sir,

Randy

I'm afraid my card is all filled up. Guess you'll need to find another partner.

[J_Player]

Now that we solved the problem of figuring out that Mutiphoton-Induced Photoluminescence is possible on nano-particles of gold, we have three hurdles to pass before we can make a reasonable scientific connection to the dirt glowing above buried gold.

1. The luminescence was induced by a 795 nm Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser. ie: the gold did not glow on its own, the glowing was induced by a special laser.

2. This glowing was observed on nano-particles within a specific range. Within the luminescent range nano-sized particles, the frequency must be adjusted to cause the luminescencee. But when the gold particle size is outside the luminescent range, it is no longer luminescent. ie: only certain size particle will glow when stimulated by a laser.

3. The correct frequency laser and the correct size nano-particles must be present at the location of a long-time buried gold object. if the correct laser and gold nano-particles are not there, then there will be no glowing.

This means we would go treasure hunting with the correct frequency femtosecond laser. Let's assume we have a portable 795 nm Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser like the one that worked in the laboratory. And we connect it to a 50% duty cycle 1khz supply, and we pulse it on when we want to scan a location to see if there are any glowing spots in the dirt. (It seems like this would be best done at night).

Suppose we go searching in an old field that was once a park. And suppose we find several spots that show a visible glow when we pulse the IR laser on them. So we start digging, and find several gold objects. This would prove that there are nano-particles of gold in the soil in enough abundance to show visible luminescence when the ground was pulsed with a 795 nm Ti:sapphire femtosecond laser. So what's the problem with that?
Nothing.... If the ground glows when you pulse the laser at it.

But what if the ground does not glow?
I am sure many will say the reason is because there is no gold buried there.
But suppose you find the ground does not glow over an area that has placer gold two feet below. And you confirm this by digging the gold.
Why didn't the experiment work?

An answer that comes to mind is the known ions of gold that have been studied above long-time buried gold are found in quantities of parts per billion. Sometimes as much as 10 parts per billion for large amounts of gold that have been buried a very long time, such as are found at mines. Among the gold particles that form from ions in the parts per billion range, Is it possible that only a small percentage of them are the suitable nano-particle size to have luminescence properties when zapped by the correct laser? Would it be in the parts per trillion range?

Perhaps there is just not enough of these nano-particles above a treasure to glow.

But then, If people are seeing the ground glow without even induciing the luminescence, maybe something else is causing the ground to glow.

Best wishes,
J_P

[homefire]

Why do you think you have to use LASER?

I have to old style Single Heterojunction GaAs LD-60's made by LASER DIODE here.

They pump out 905nm at a Watt or Two if set up right.

Lazer would only work if you Scanned with it, and got a reflection you think was usable.

These diodes are from the 90's and little info available on them.

These are Stud type Diodes and can HURT you!

25 Watt Peak Power out Put.

3 volts and up to 3o amps modulated Drive current.

[Seden]

Yes that is a problem but hey, if the 808nm laser just happens to work for the particular thickness and makeup of the placer gold that would be great (luck of the draw). If not it was a fun experiment and at this point I don't have the funds to buy a tunable laser so I've got another laser idea that's more likely to work.

Once I get the circuit built and tested the theory, I will post the schematic for others to try assuming of course it works! But at this point will keep the idea to myself till then.

With the economy the way it is,one must choose carefully the things to experiment on! So far with the cost of the IR lowpass filter + Laser I think I'm at $60.

J_P, remember the post about Dr. Paul Dobler whereby he found the radiation of gold to be at 1.2mm or 249GHZ? On nanotechweb there was an article about how they discovered that gold ABSORBS radiation in and around that frequency range. To me I don't care if it radiates or absorbs as long as there is a measurable anomaly,but interesting huh? See here:
http://nanotechweb.org/cws/article/tech/35464

In particular this:Andreas Thoman and colleagues at the University of Freiburg have shown that nanostructured gold can almost entirely suppress reflections at the substrate-to-air interface over frequencies ranging from 200 GHz to 2.2 THz in the far infrared. Would this work out in the field, good question,but good to note.

Randy

[Seden]

We were both typing at the same time,but if I can get by without a laser that would be MUCH cheaper and thanks, I will try your ideas.

Randy

[homefire]

Ha! I have a $12.00 philips web cam that is hot on IR.

I'm going to mess with it when it gets dark tonight.

I have some panned gold and want to see what it does.

I'm going to use my TV remote as a IR source.

[homefire]

I checked out the IR remote control. Ceepo Camera see's the IR but does not Reflect off the 14K ring.

Remote I think runs in the 700u wave area?

[Seden]

Homefire,

Very good on having some panned gold around, so you are a gold prospector as I am. I don't know if you get the California Mining Journal but
there was an excellent article called "Succeeding with Infrared Photography" by Eugene J. Erdos (of Infrared Photogeological Services) in the April 1990 California Mining Journal that's a darn good read. In it the author quotes from Kodak's "Applied Infrared Photography",M28,P.3 1981 where it says "infrared luminescence is caused by illuminating the object with relatively long wave-length radiation(visible blue or green) which the object re-emits at longer wavelengths (infrared radiation). Talks about "Differentiated infrared photography" and "This type of differentiated IR photography will show the orebody under the overburden, and will omit surface features totally, showing only the infrared ore zone as if it were bare". The closing paragraph of the article says that infrared only photography produces a red and black picture, infrared and non-infrared. Says this is between 700-900nm. "Within these wavelengths, the evidence suggests that one particular band is most responsible for the infrared radiation emanating form ore deposits".

Blue-Green light is easy to come by so will give this a try.

Randy

[homefire]

I go panning.

Nugget shooting.

Just messing around.

IR is cool to see land features you just don't see with your eyes!

You can see paths that just don't seem to be there.

You can see Depressions that don't seem to be there!

I think with a good Thermal Camera you could see heat variants just below the surface that could help you out.

I had a Cheap Russian IR scope that was fun to play with. Some one Snatched it!

With a old head lamp just glowing orange/red you could see every thing.

I do think Gold would reflect the IR better then any back ground materials and produce a Glow! The Remote control just does not have enough Cajonies!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by homefire

Lazer would only work if you Scanned with it, and got a reflection you think was usable.

The article Seden referenced does not have anything to do with the reflective properties of gold. The IR laser light is not reflected from nano-particles of gold. The nano-particles are stimulated by the IR laser light, and there is a resultant emission of visible light, due to the stimulus of the photons. No reflected IR is mentioned in the discoveries in that article. Thus, we are not looking for reflected IR light. We are looking for gold nano-particles glowing visibly when they are pulsed with an IR laser of the correct freauency for the thickness of gold nano-particles.

The other idea about using an IR imaging method to look at parts of the ground that are glowing with IR without a laser is approached differently. You don't need a laser, only an IR imaging method. The least expensive and highest quality method I have seen is to convert an old digital camera to an IR camera. This costs nothing except the price of an old IR camera. 1MP camera will do fine. You can get these used for under $30. Then remove the IR filter from the image sensor and replace it with a piece of exposed 35mm color negative film. You now have an IR camera that allows you to see an image wherever it is pointed. But it is showing IR, not visible light. Pretty nice for about $30, eh?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Originally Posted by J_Player

replace it with a piece of exposed 35mm color negative film.

J_P

35mm color negative film exposed on what?

On sunlight?

On coulored light? On which spectrum of light?

thanks

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by WM6

35mm color negative film exposed on what?

On sunlight?

On coulored light? On which spectrum of light?

thanks

The piece of film is not actually exposed. It is from the end of a roll of exposed film. You are looking for a piece of film from the end of a roll of developed film -- the end where it is opaque because no photo was taken on the end of the roll. This will act as a visible light filter. See this article for details on how to convert a digital camera into an IR digital camera: http://geektechnique.org/index.php?id=254

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by Seden

Just as you predicted this thread started going south with the usual crowd. Esteban thank you for sharing that information as you are one of the very few on Geotech that actually designs and builds things where others in their arm chairs just tap away on the keyboard with sarcastic comments.

Gentlemen,what do you think about the article I posted at the start of this thread from Nanotech.org? Did you READ it? Yes,no maybe,gonna do it?

Nice part about it is it's pure science. I really want your input that's why I posted it.

Randy

Hi Randy,
sarcastic comments are due to the lack of proofs or facts about LRL-pretenders... no real project, no real schematic (or do you count the stamp-sized ones as good?), no real design, nothing of nothing apart words, claims and pictures of paint rollers and the like... so, better stay on the arm chairs than buy that stuff for the pleasure of discovering that they don't work a c.r.a.p.

About the article... hmmmm.... gold films , means you need particular kind of particles e.g. particles size , thickness I think... so proves nothing... frequency of gold ? But sure quantum physics explained how atoms could go in excited states and then return back to equilibrium releasing e.g. light photons... nothing new I say.

But now follow my thought: think at chromium element... ok... all we have chromium stuff... some more than others (like a big Harley-Davidson bike parked near home...) but what you see ??? red flashes ???

I mean... to make something quantum-physics you need a particular setup... like trapping as doping agent some chromium atoms in a synt ruby matrix of Al2O3... that's why THIS same chromium atoms give the flashes and the bike not!

Of course, you need mirrors, brewster windows, xenon-hi-speed-lamps, infinite-index-reflectors etc etc etc but concept is that if your chromium is on the harley it will not shine red!

Or not ?

So... what we are talking about here ? Gold films ? And where are gold-films in the soil near an old time buried target ? That's the point... it's a meaningless reference to our topic of remote sensing I think...
also cause I dubt people of South America, proud owners of (claimed by them) working LRLs have really a femtosecond-pulsed-laser module on their wood-boxes... but maybe some PVC pipe filled with air and farts...

About the IR pictures.... well... if it will be so easy I think LRL-people had already made some IR-camera or modified something, bought some airport surplus stuff... e.g. the kind that by IR measure body temperature etc but I see nothing about... I think the thermal way is full of c.r.a.p. too cause there were big claims about but no facts, no proofs, no reliable explaination and , of course, weren't any attepts of partecipate to the LRL challenge...

Or not ? Maybe I miss something ?

So, will stay on my arm chair and hit the keyboard till someone of these genius will show to the world that electronic LRL is reality!

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Randy, thanks. Is more easy create sarcastic comments.

Is far more easy filling a PVC tube of digested air...

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

"High purity gold reflects infrared (heat) energy almost completely, making it ideal for heat and radiation reflection. "

http://gold.yabz.com/facts.htm

In the same way, gold emits is own IR. So, to use IR for detect gold at distance is not a mistery... Maybe is better IR laser.

Thin layers and colloidal dispersions ... but maybe for you gold is gold... and so chromium is chromium and harley-davidson bikes shine red flashes just for you!

[Max]

Originally Posted by Seden

Yes that is a problem but hey, if the 808nm laser just happens to work for the particular thickness and makeup of the placer gold that would be great (luck of the draw). If not it was a fun experiment and at this point I don't have the funds to buy a tunable laser so I've got another laser idea that's more likely to work.

Once I get the circuit built and tested the theory, I will post the schematic for others to try assuming of course it works! But at this point will keep the idea to myself till then.

With the economy the way it is,one must choose carefully the things to experiment on! So far with the cost of the IR lowpass filter + Laser I think I'm at $60.

J_P, remember the post about Dr. Paul Dobler whereby he found the radiation of gold to be at 1.2mm or 249GHZ? On nanotechweb there was an article about how they discovered that gold ABSORBS radiation in and around that frequency range. To me I don't care if it radiates or absorbs as long as there is a measurable anomaly,but interesting huh? See here:
http://nanotechweb.org/cws/article/tech/35464

In particular this:Andreas Thoman and colleagues at the University of Freiburg have shown that nanostructured gold can almost entirely suppress reflections at the substrate-to-air interface over frequencies ranging from 200 GHz to 2.2 THz in the far infrared. Would this work out in the field, good question,but good to note.

Randy

yes, GOLD NANOSTRUCTURES! ... what we haven't in real soil... real soil is a mess of stuff of a number of different elements... for me is J.A.A.F.P. just-another-already-failed project...

But will be nice if will find me wrong on that... maybe I'm wrong...

Kind regards,
Max

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Seden

The book is entitled "Discovering Treasure Auras in the Digital Age by David Villanueva" which will set you back $19 to download,but a good read and interesting.

Randy

Randy...as I stated on that other website, I also own that book. In my opinion, it is worthless for the purpose of treasure hunting.

The book offers no validation from the scientific community, and its writing style is very amateurish.

Akin to something written by Dell Winders, the author boasts and brags about other successful means of treasure hunting. Such as dowsing, using Long Range Locators and Polaroid film. He also touches on seeing lights in the sky to find gold.

Two thumbs down for the realist or rational observer, but great for those sucked into conspiracy theories for finding big treasures.

[Seden]

Jim,

Since I actually got the steep skirted IR filter and tried it I now agree with you and Max/Robert (post above yours).

And as I stated on the other forum if it works fine (same with the upcoming 808nm laser for the lasing experiment) and hey I'm out a total of $60 which for 2 experiments isn't bad.
I do have an article from the California Mining Journal that you saw posted here and the other forum where IR between 700-900nm is valuable for Geological Remote Sensing which has been done for decades now so will invest in 3 separate bandpass filters for each (700nm,800nm+900nm)but for treasure hunting of NO value so far as I can tell until proven by yours truly. I am a part time gold placer miner and prospector so the above article will be yet another tool in my Geological tool chest.
Sorry I couldn't help you treasure hunters,

Randy

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Seden

I do have an article from the California Mining Journal that you saw posted here and the other forum where IR between 700-900nm is valuable for Geological Remote Sensing which has been done for decades now so will invest in 3 separate bandpass filters for each (700nm,800nm+900nm)but for treasure hunting of NO value so far as I can tell until proven by yours truly. I am a part time gold placer miner and prospector so the above article will be yet another tool in my Geological tool chest

Hi Randy,
If lasers like yours have been used for decades in Geological remote sensing, then is seems you have a valuable laser for experimenting with. Aside from geological testing, there may be some application in experimenting with remote sensing of treasures. The time when buried treasure takes on the attributes of some geological conditions is when it resembles placer gold. ie: it has been buried for a long time. In this condition, you can expect the soil around where the treasure is buried is not the same as the surrounding soil. The difference may be small and hard to detect, but we have read reports that others have done it. Maybe by using your laser, you will have better results that people who used IR diodes.

Best wishes,
J_P

[ALEX.356]

Dear friend Jim,
re. David's Villanueva book , it happened to read it a month ago.
I believe it is premature to judge against it before performing the tests as described in the book.
I am certain nobody took the trouble to replicate these tests as detailed by David.
I mean by the same camera, same filters, same photoshop, with serious amounts of gold and silver buried into the soil for a long time, at least for a month, not single coins, not hidden in holes and Zampetas guarding the treasure a la Django [my friend this Zampetas of yours is already world-famous... ]
No need to open any camera and scratch the IR factory filter .
Read the book and go by the book.
Then if there are no results then we have the right of criticism.
Until proven liar we have to respect and consider what the author asserts.
wish you success,
Alex 356

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ALEX.356

Dear friend Jim,
re. David's Villanueva book , it happened to read it a month ago.
I believe it is premature to judge against it before performing the tests as described in the book.
I am certain nobody took the trouble to replicate these tests as detailed by David.
I mean by the same camera, same filters, same photoshop, with serious amounts of gold and silver buried into the soil for a long time, at least for a month, not single coins, not hidden in holes and Zampetas guarding the treasure a la Django [my friend this Zampetas of yours is already world-famous... ]
No need to open any camera and scratch the IR factory filter .
Read the book and go by the book.
Then if there are no results then we have the right of criticism.
Until proven liar we have to respect and consider what the author asserts.
wish you success,
Alex 356

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

It is up to the person presenting the "theory" to prove that it is correct, not the other way round. Otherwise I could just as easily claim that there is a silver tea tray in orbit around the Earth, and then challenge you to prove me wrong!

[Jim]

Randy...thanks for the cordial reply.

I think David Villanueva accomplished what he set out to do. He got our hard earned money, and we got nothing in return but a fist full of hooha, gibberish and wish science.