Ivconic's Negative Ion Detector circuit

[ivconic]

Hi,
AFT 72005
"How discriminate gold ion from other ions with This circuit ? for example ,silver ion ,
water ion, And ….."
Huh! It is a question! Ask Carl ! He'll be delited to answer!
By the way, there is no way to discriminate type with this device only polarisation.
I am not sure that ions care their origin at all.Somebody claimed that, but I never
met such claims in my books.Anyway , that kind of device should cost over $milions !!!
(in that case mineoro is very cheap...bargain, you may say).

Geo,
You can test ionic detector very easy, by pointing it in
some older TV set. Almost is a rule that high voltage stage in older TV's is
"leaking", and producing a lot of ions !!! Simple and cheap test !
About op.amps....you already got answer from the others...
About gain, it is enough. Adding more gain lead You to risk of going "wild".
About bakelite feed-through capacitor...I don't think so.
"Can i detect iron or other metals with the ion detector..."

Good question...Ask Carl,than ask Dell...than decide.(I would bet on Carl!)
J Player

Most of Your remarks I agree!
"2. Is it desirable to have even higher voltage on the dish?"

No! It was crucial mistake on some previous designs ! Higher voltage may generate
some own ions, so You can easy colect them instead foreign ones, if everything
was not quite good adjusted!

"6. Final thought is a question for anyone who knows: The antenna signal
feeds into 2 op amps which send out a differential signal into the differential
amp. But these 2 op amps also have a 3rd op amp shown below in a feedback loop
on the lower of the 2 op amps. What is the purpose of this feedback loop? is it
only to create a delay that helps reverse the polarity of the lower op amp? Or
is it to also act as a filter for certain frequencies seen in the antenna
signal?"

As a filter for certain "frequencies" seen in the antenna signal and integral part of
second input, acting a huge role in common impendance....
Delay...maybe, I didn't think that way....very interesting!

FrancoItaly
"The 10K potentiometre to BC107 ..."

Preset the amplitude of signal.
TL081/082 ... I do not think so ! CA3130/40....maybe...709(MAA501)...maybe

"The first high impedance stage use bootstrap technique ..."
Absolutelly correct !!! Bravo Franco !!!
"I think that the differential amplifier only responds to variations of signal input,
when you move the instrument in different site, and like a "motion metal detector"
the 4K7 potentiometer is the preset "tuning". There is no need of retuning push."
Absolutelly correct !!! Again Bravo Franco !!! Come to think...are You posted
this project or it was me !? You understood everything much better than me!?
Great understanding! Bravo!
"The Led in input stage serves to visualize the battery charge..."
Led should blinks in the rythm of charging....good.

"...but I think is better to use a 78L06 for voltage stabilization with 1/2 LM358 used
as comparator + Led and to use the other 1/2 LM358 as oscillator instead LM555.."
Really not necessairly, but good idea anyway.
"I think we can use other types of transformers..."
Steady...other transformer...other characteristics! But transformer is easy to
obtain. Open some old modem and there it is !

Esteban
Good schematic Esteban. I was thinking to mod Classic III sound, I'll try this
your schematic and see. Thanks for posting it.

Best regards to all!

[aft_72005]

Hi ivconic and all

Mineoro company says be able detect gold ions .

Are you or anybody know what kind of detection used in mineoro ? is it ion detector ?

And I wrote :

Why use dish in circuit ? for focus ions or attraction it .

Seem as for attraction, so when charge it, be able

Attract opposite ions thus probably we can use another

Form Replace whit dish .

I have not any reply yet.
Thanks ivconic and all.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi,
I think that it's possible to detect gold in a range of some meters or plus. It 's true that gold don't release ions but it can form a ground battery with other metals and/or minerals also if they are not near gold, it takes only several years in order that the battery "appears"; this is the "long buried" effect! A battery in the ground can add its own voltage to existing E-field and then it can deform its induction lines. The conclusion may be a different distribution of ions that are normally in the air: if this explanation is true it's possible to test our ion detector with a sample of gold and an iron rod sticked in the ground at few meters...

[FrancoItaly]

my previous explanation is compatible with what Esteban says: his ion detector is sensible not only to gold but also to copper and bronze, that is other metals that are able to form a battery with iron and/or minerals. Perhaps it's possible a type of discrimination as the battery formed by gold and other metals has a greater voltage then other batteries without gold..

[J_Player]

So far we have established that this machine can be expected to attract airborne negative ions and and detect their presence in the vicinity of the dish and antenna. It appears that the machine works in a manner similar to commercial ion detectors used to test for equipment that is creating ions. But this leads us to the next stage:

How can we use this machine to locate buried treasures? What specific techniques could we use? Let's suppose we ask a friend to take a 1-ounce gold coin (90% pure or more) and bury it 6 inches deep in a soccer field, and remove any evidence that would show where the coin is buried. Then we arrive with the newly built negative ion detetor and turn it on. After adjusting the controls, we see the meter move when we click our piezo lighter several times up close to the dish. Now it is time to locate the buried coin. Our friend is sitting at the side of the soccer field with a grin on his face thinking we will never find the coin. What should we do next?

[FrancoItaly]

Hi J PLAYER
As I told in my previous post you can stick an iron rod in the ground and the battery gold/iron can influence your ion detector..

[Dell Winders]

I don't mean to intrude where I am not qualified to speak as I have zero formal education in electrical, electronics, or physics, but I notice that the focus is on how Ion's can be utilized for remote sensing, and the acceptance that Ions are the primary source of the applied physics that are claimed to be employed in the schematic being analyzed and interpreted.

Years ago a Physcist in Texas that was using one of my instruments told me he knew the principle these instruments utilized for remote sensing the "field's" of Chemical elements, "Light Wave Particles". I can't disagree that LWP may inadvertently play a minor role because I don't know, but from my very limited knowledge I don't see LWP as the basis of the application, and maybe it's not Ion's either.

I think if I were attempting such a study exclusive to the Ion theory, I would seek to learn how big a role Ion's play in conventional methods before reaching a conclusion that it actually is an application of Ion's that is being utilized in the schematic, and not assume that it is fact, rather than it possibly being "AS IF" Ions appear to be the physics being utilized? Who here is qualified in Earth Science Physics to let us know?

My questions would be, how big a role do Ion's play in conventional detection methods using E/M, Magnetometor, low frequency Radio waves, Magnetic resonance, etc? Dell

[Esteban]

Hi all the IONSHOOTERS!!!

If the decive works in conjunction of stability and sensibility with addition of bips generator, sure will be detect gold, silver, alloys of these, copper and bronze. Distance in discussion. Maybe 20 m for a coin.


Geo:

The machine was experimental for gold. The center antennna is a bronze type sharp end. A TV flayback generates high voltage and charge high voltage capacitor in order 30 pF 30 kV during few seconds. This generates an "ionic wind" and the copper disc receive and actuates as a key connected to chemical classifier, but don't have more info about it.

TLC 271 replacement FROM ANOTHER ELECTRONIC FORUM: Probably the best replacement for LF351 will be CA3140, but you can easily use TLC271, ICL7611, TLC071, TLC081.

For replacement TLC 272 you can use TLC072, TLC 082. Or commons TL062 - TL072, LF412, LF353. More new is NE5532.

For single maybe the commons TL061, TL071, LF411, LF351, LF356. More new is the NE5534. Try!!!

Bakelite is better. No static collected.

* * * * * *

Ivconic:

555 comparator-timer (great discovery!) is useful for all you think. If you connect a tuned coil, you can test oscillators, search heads, etc. If you connect phototransistor or IR led receiver or photorresistor, test remote controls, phototransistor, photodiode, etc. If you connect a coill winding in magnet, you detect vibrations. An short antenna detects flyback oscillation or pulse induction. No limits! Is my universal "revealer".


* * * * * *

FrancoItaly:

Respect the battery formed in earth: here the radio by earth battery by galvanic effect!!! (so consider old time buried gold and any conductive metal as battery):

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Esteban,
You have a working ion detector then you can verify if it's possible to sense a gold/steel ground battery...

[J_Player]

This ion detector seems like it is useful for detecting negative ions, not buried gold. This particular machine was not represented as a treasure locating device. What Ivconic told us when he posted the schematic is: "Only one claim: this device at least do something, despite some commercial devices do nothing!"

He never said it could locate any treasure. So far, we have no answers that tell us how to locate a buried treasure using this machine. Discussions of physics theory are not necessay to explain what procedure should be used with the Ivconic ion detector to locate treasure. Physics theory is good for designing LRLs, but we already have a completed design that is guaranteed to "at least do something". The only question I have is how to use this machine to locate treasure. I am interested to know the procedure and method that must be used, not the theories of why it works or does not work.

We have a hint from Franco: "you can stick an iron rod in the ground and the battery gold/iron can influence your ion detector". This is at least a first step toward locating a buried treasure. But how to find the treasure buried in a field using Ivconic's negative ion detector? In Franco's posts, he says "it takes only several years in order that the "battery appears"; this is the "long buried" effect!".

So now we have somewhere to start. Let's suppose we have finished building Ivconic's negative ion detector, and we have tested it and found that it works as well as most commercial ion detectors at finding ions around your television screen and your high voltage air purifier. Now we show the machine to our friend who tells us he buried a 3-ounce gold nugget in a soccer field 5 years ago. He also buried an iron pipe 30 cm long at each of the 4 corners of the soccer field, where the top 2 cm of these pipes can be seen in the grass. He invites us to come to the soccer field to see how well Ivconic's negative ion detector works for locating "long buried" 3-ounce gold nugget that has had time to develop the "battery effect".

So we drive to the soccer field on a warm summer day and get out of the car at a golf course across the street from the soccer field. We turn on the ion detector and adjust the controls while standing in the middle of the fairway of hole 3 of the golf course. After seeing that it picks up a signal when we click our piezo lighter near the antenna and dish, we walk across the street to the soccer field that has the long-buried" gold nugget, and 4 iron pipes at the corners of the field.

The question is: What do we do next in order to locate where our friend buried the gold nugget? What step-by step procedure do we use to find the buried nugget using this negative ion detector built from Ivconic's schematic?

The question is NOT about what princples of physics cause LRLs or ion detection to work. It is Not a question of whether ions play any important role in locating treasure. The question is about how can I find that nugget using Ivconic's negative ion detector machine.

[michael]

Hi anybody and thanks so much for your efforts.
I have these questions from Esteban (due to his more experiences);
1- Is this device able to detect gold or as J player stated not?
2- If is able, should we use just 1 Hz or no, can use other frequencies e.g. 5 KHz for gold or 8.7 KHz for silver?


I am so much desired know after these your professional and copious discussions,
where are now? It’s only an obscure ion detector??!!!
Regards, Michael.

[J_Player]

I can tell you with very high accuracy that this machine will find negative ions in the air. I cannot tell you that this machine will find treasure until someone shows us how to locate treasure with this machine. But if you build this machine exactly as shown in Ivconic's schematic, then you will find negative ions near your old television for sure..

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All

If we bury a sample of gold and a sample of iron at 2 or 3 meters of distance the ground battery soon appears and you can verify easy with a voltmeter. If my theory is true you can detect this voltage also with a ion detector.
The Ivconic's ion detector is a motion instrument non for static measurements. Ordinary ion detectors are designed for eliminate AC components of the detected signals. I think that for all us it's not interesting to know how many ions are near our television, but perhaps some piece of gold may be hidden inside the television!

[J_Player]

Does this mean that it is not possible to find the 3-ounce gold nugget in the soccer field with Ivconic's negative ion detector unless an iron pipe is buried 2 or 3 meters from where the gold is buried? If the gold nugget was buried 2 meters from the iron pipe in the corner of the soccer field, then what method would we use to locate the nugget using Ivconic's negative ion detector? Is it necessary to first know the location of 3 meter square piece of land with hidden gold and iron pipe before we can locate it with this negative ion detector? I think we can find the 3-ounce nugget with an ordinary metal VLF or PI detector if we know the location within 3 meter square area, and no need for iron pipe nearby. Does this mean the negative ion detector is not good for LRL detecting?

Some televisions use gold plated connectors. Will the ion detector find dtll us the difference between a television with gold plated connectors inside and a television with no gold plated connectors? Will it tell us if a television has silver plated connectors and wires? Is the signal for gold plated connectors stronger than the signal that comes from high voltage flyback causing ionization to the air that comes in contact with the components and then dissipates and migrates out of the vent holes in the back of the television?

[Esteban]

Hi IONHUNTERS!!

Only metals buried for some years show the phenomenon. So, this machine or like this is for detect buried metals, because these creates around him an electric field or like a battery as suggest FrancoItaly. Repeat: if this ion detector combines good sensibility, stability and accuracy, then sure will be sensitive to this kinds of electric fields, because this electric fields produces an imbalance in the antenna and can show via the adequate signalizer. A treasure produces high energy, in some cases can break the first IC, no science-fiction. This machine is for use in inland, lands free of excessive interference and far to powerlines. Accuracy in this kind of machine mean stability in the more sensitive point.

Here is not important if the soil is more negative or positive than the air or viceversa. Or if the input of the IC is for positive or negative signal. In stability condition of ambient no signal is present, but in the vecinity of this metal there are a voltage and this rapid changes "knock". So, this "knock" is the important, because up or down the voltage in the electronics, but while "search" for stabilize in the zero, if down tends to up, and if up tends to down and occurs the bips. Agree with FrancoItaly: this instrument is for motion operation. The blocking cap in the antenna is important. 100 pF is a good value. Ceramic high voltage is good, 500 or 1,000 V.

Walk with the machine and move left-right, right-left not very slowly. This mean during detection as you move work as AC and the signal pass through the antenna cap!

The machine form a 90º angle with the body, not very near the body, with the arm semiextended. For to be sure you have detected a X point where the machine sounds, walk in another direction. The bips in the place is the "site".

Another considerations:

* Sometimes (this occurs with some designs) the difference in the terrain produces erratics. All you know that each 1 meter the voltage in the air is 100 or 200 V more the referencial site... Difficult "business" fight to this kind of disturbs.

* At low atmospheric pressure, all long distance detector is better.

I have metal buried in my yard since 1987: 51 bronze quality coins at 75 cm, recipient of silver (200 g) -90 cm-, copper coins (4), cover of gold old watch, small "treasure" of various silver objects, gold rings, include a bronze plate of record player, a 120 cm X 60 cm gross copper plate, curious found with long distance electronic detector at 50 m.

What are you doing? Start with your artificial fields!

[Anker]

The Regard!

Think, you is of interest honour the letter from Mineoro my friend , in brief explaining principle of the recognition "golden" ion.

Excuse me for bad english, with best wishes,

Anker.

===========






Dear Mr. Kravchenko,





Hope you this finds you well.



In answer to your questions about Long Range Directional Detectors with Classifier (LRDD):



It is necessary to clarify, in the first place, that understanding a “new invention” starting with the knowledge we have about ions, electromagnetism, magnetic fields, electric fields, EMI, dinamic electricity, static electricity, radio waves, LW, MW, SW, VHF, UHF and others, without advancing many grades forward these phenomena, already known by Science, is very difficult , not to say impossible.



We should also note that these “new phenomena” cannot be measured as there aren´t, yet, measuring instruments sensitive enough.



DEFINITIONS:



1 – Dynamic Electricity:



It is the energy generated by electric generators and transmitted by metal conductors, wires. This energy is produced as alternated tension , (ac) or continuous (cc) . This is also extracted from continuous current batteries.



2 – Static Electricity (Electrostatic)



It is the electricity produced by insulators or bad conductors.

It is generated by friction of substances between them. Solid, Liquid, Gaseous or Plasmatic. This definition was first enunciated by the german scientist Loeb (references quoted), in 1958.







3 – Creation of Ionic Fields:



3.1 – Generated by continuous high tension positive or negative by sharp point. Normally around 800 to 900 volts. Other tensions are feasible.

3.2- Ionic field by chemical flow in galvanization processes.

3.3 – Other ionic fields generators for different purposes, so-called ionizators.



4 – Magnetic Fields



They are fields created by permanent alnico magnets, strange earth magnets, etc, the magnetic field of the Earth, generated by the central core or the Planet that has a field of aproximately 0,5 gauss at the polar ice-caps and 0,3 gaus at the Equator line. Approximate data. Other magnetic fields can be created in radio coils generated by electromagnetic Hertz waves. They create microfields, that eventhough their low intensity are measurable in oscilloscopes, microvoltimeters and other electronic instruments , and amplified by electronic circuits for various uses.





I am certain that you, being an Electronic Engineer and Chips Designer, have studied in your Engineering course all these phenomena , that is why I have just mentioned a feedback, as a reminder , with the aim of just clarifying what is scientific knowledge and what the inventors Damásio and Alonso have advanced from the information already of public domain and academic curricular subject.



5 – Measurements:



In this item I would like to approach briefly the measurement of phenomena. The data referred here are not submitted in exact percentage. They are just data for reflection and understanding of the “new phenomena” detected by the inventors.



5.1- In measurements of dynamic electricity I will just refer to tensions under 1 volt.

5.2- In measurement of static electricity of 0 (zero) to 20.000 volts or more.

5.3- In measurement of ionic fields in Å - angstrons, nano, pico, femto and atto volts.



6 – What are Ions:



The scientific concept of Ions is already of public domain and well-informed in scientific books and news worldwide.

Ions are atoms. Modified atoms. One ion is called “positive ion” when it loses one or more electron(s). It is called a “negative ion” when an electron or more is increased to it. In that area of activity we are visiting a region of “nano” or below nano movements.

That is to say: Å= 10-8; nano= 10-9; femto=10-15 and atto= 10-18.





7 – Why are Ions free everywhere?



It is because the matter – all and any substance – loses atomic weight, it loses atoms liberated from matter in form of negative “ions” and positive “ions”. These ions are everywhere in the Universe. In our solar system, in the atmospheric space and cosmic space, in Earth as a whole. In the ground, underground and in the center of the Planet. Therefore, everywhere we have ionic fields spread in all directions. Our physical body is losing atomic weight during 24 hours. Our clothes, our hair, our shoes, our houses, furniture, food, and fresh water, salty water, all and any liquid, or gas, everything in any state of matter loses atomic weight in form of ions.



The loss is proportionate to the size of the object, the bigger the object, more “ionic” volume lost. All the elements of Earth also are in form of atoms. All the mines, all the minerals. The plants, the bushes, the big trees, the flowers, all I can name, being a substance, is giving away ions through loss of atomic weight.



Summary of Item 7 ( First item of LRDD system)



The “matter” – substance – necessary for Long Distance detection exists in our solar system and beyond. We will see, then, how can we manipulate these information and use the ions of each substance. (*)



8 – An observation of what exists and a “discovery” . New invention.



How does a short-circuit occur?

When we connect a positive wire to another negative without any charge, a short circuit occurs. Independently of the existent tension. Could be microvolts, nanovolts or below, or higher tensions. This short- circuit produces a characteristic noise like a “CRASH” (breakdown), noise that can be heard from a few centimeters to a hundred of meters, depending on the voltage provoking the short-circuit. Followed by a glaring radiance proportionate to the short -circuit.



The discovery: During laboratory and field studies , we discovered that between a negative ion and a positive ion the same phenomenom occurs. A short-circuit occurs and a proportional CRASH. In the microvolts, nanovolts region or below. The short-circuit and the CRASH are not measurable or audible. So if we could hear that CRASH or detect that short-circuit in an electronic system of super high sensitivity we will have a response of the phenomenom.



The idea behind the Substance Classifier



As the package of ions spread in all directions, of all substances was too big and compact, it was difficult to separate just an “ion” or various “ions” of the same substance. So we come out with the idea of inventing a “Substance Classifier” , that is to say, a device which has the ability to “filter” just the “ion” or “ions” we needed to produce the phenomenom of “micro crash”, “nano crash”or below. After years of researching and field experiences , it was born. It was invented not just as a classifier – “filter”, but as a generator of positive “ions”, receiver of negative “ions” in order to the short-circuit occur , and generator of electrostatic. Through electrostatic , the “ions” walk long distances , as if along an “invisible wire”.



(*) An ion is any atom or group of atoms that bears one or more positive or negative electrical charges. Positively charged ions are called cations, negatively charged ions, anions. Ions are formed by the addition of electrons to, or the removal of electrons from neutral atoms or molecules or other ions; by combination of ions with other particles; or by rupture of a covalent bond between two atoms in such a way that both of the electrons of the bond are left in association with one of the formerly bonded atoms. Examples of these processes include the reaction of a sodium atom with a chlorine atom to form a sodium cation and a chloride anion; the addition of a hydrogen cation to an ammoniamolecule to form an ammonium cation; and the dissociation of a water molecule to form a hydrogen cation and a hydroxide anion.



Many crystalline substances are composed of ions held in regular geometric patterns by the attraction of the oppositely charged particles for each other. Ions migrate under the influence of an electrical field and are the conductors of electric current in electrolytic cells.





Electrostatic, when moving , is like a radio frequency wave which has the property of “carrying” various signals, such as: audio, digital information, video signals, color signals and many others. Electrostatics is like a transportation

firm. As FEDEX; UPS and DHL. It carries from South to North all the “ionization” which is free. Watch in the site under IONIC FIELD www.mineoro.com.campo01.htm

Also, a discovery of the inventors Damásio and Alonso.

The insulators above mentioned are all the non-conductive substances. In the detection system – LRDD – the most important insulator, from the point of view of the phenomenom, is the Atmospheric Air. The most electrostatically positive it is, the farther it will carry the negative “ions”.

After the rain, when the atmosphere is negatively charged, the distance of detection is less. Before the rain, some days before, the atmosphere is positively charged and the detection occurs much farther. This is scientifically proved.

It is when there is atmospheric discharge – lighting .



There are different types of electrostatics:



a – Electrostatics coming from Orion Constellation, discovered by USA scientists in 2003.



b – Electrostatics produced by the Earth rotation in the atmospheric space.



c - Electrostatics produced by the central core of the Earth, which travels 12 miles more than the external part of the Planet along the period of an year.



d - Electrostatics produced by parked engines(switched on) or in movement, by ships, planes, cars and a lot more.



f – I, myself, Damásio, typing this message in the computer, in a dry day and moving my chair on a vynil carpet, generate more than 35.000 volts of electrostatics.



g – Any movement we make or which is made produces electrostatics. Our breathing; the movement of our hands; walking, every step, depending on the day and the relative humidity of the air can produce up to 20.000 volts electrostatic or more. And it is very good for our health. We are surrounded by electrostatics during all our lifespan even when we are not aware. Standing up; sitting down; lying in bed; in the bathroom; practising any sport; even in the most sedentary positions we are producing electrostatics. Therefore, all things that surround us, nearby or farther away, produce in some way, electrostatics.

It is just this phenomenom ,one of the strongest interagents in Long Range Detection with Substance Classifier.



9 – An attentive observation and “one more discovery”:



Carefully analizing all the previous information about electrostatics, we infer that, all movement, according to Loeb, creates electrostatics.



‘Static electrification covers all processes for producing segregation of positive and negative electrical charges by mechanical actions which operate by contact or impact between solid surfaces, between solid and liquid surfaces, or in the ruptpre or separation of solid or liquid surfaces by gases or otherwise, including also ionized gases. These involve such processes as frictional, contact, or triboelectrification, spray electrification and electrification in dust, snow or in thunderstorms”



Leonard B. Loeb, Static Electrification, Springer-Verlag, Berlin-Gottingen-Heidlberg, 1958.





So “ions” in movement, just them, would generate electrostatics. It was discovered one more issue that would explain the LRDD. Although in an infinitely small phenomenom, micro, nano , pico, femto or atto phenomenom, the electrostatic phenomenom occurs as well. It is a electrostatics with the characteristic of the substance created by it.

It is the same with a person´s DNA. The negative “ion”, in our case, gold “ion” brings its DNA, that is the energy which will tranport it. The “ion” itself generates that transporting energy.

This explains the substance classifier. When the negative “ion” finds its twin of opposite polarity, they love each other so intensively, that when they get together they provoke a short-circuit autodestroying themselves. As in the Romeo and Juliet movie, both of them die, but the proof of their death is a flask of poison near them; in the same way, our “passionate ions” also leave a proof of their death in “emiting a crash”, which generates an electrical signal so fast as nano, pico, femto or atto seconds , detectable in sensitive electronic circuits and projected for this aim.

The classifier just filters the negative ‘ions”, twin pairs of positivie “ions” produced by the classifier. To this phenomenom, Alonso (60) and Damásio (70) gave the name of “Substance Classifier” or just “Classifier”.

This denomination was necessary to differentiate from the expression “discrimination”, commonly used in other systems of detection by electromagnetic waves.

About the “classifier” it is good to inform that it is possible to manufacture classifiers for other metal and non-metal substances. It is possible to classify blood in its kinds; plants and its kinds; drugs and its kinds, etc. at long distance.

That is why we announced in the media that we are talking about “ A MODERN

INVENTION”.







10 - Ionic Chamber



The ionic/electrostatic chamber consists of the external “antenna” in the form of a black tube, plus an elliptical sensor inserted in the plate of the boardcircuit,

object of your question. This sensor in elliptical shape represents an ionic/electrostatic field reflector, similar to the reflectors used in the antique tv aerials, which had deflectors and reflectores to better concentrate the signal received from VHF. The idea of that ionic/electrostatic reflector was originated in those reflectors.

This sensor reflects and concentrates like a lens part of the energy that escapes and it is not detected by the “antenna” inside the black tube. This ionic/electrostatic energy is reutilized by the “antenna” increasing the detection capacity of the detector and turning the detection more directional. As the detection with electrostatics has the property of polarizing the substrate, an electrical time constant was placed for this depolarization, keeping the sensor neutral to reflect the “ionic/electrostatic” fields.

It is good to clarify that electrostatics reflects, concentrates, disperses, and is carried by metals, conductive wires, etc. The same as dynamic electricity.

When the Directional Detectors is moved into a horizontal or vertical position a static electricity is produced, electrostatics, according to Loeb, necessary in the ionic chamber for the use of positive “ions” which would meet the negative “ions”, producing the phenomenom of Long Range Directional Detection with Substance Classifier, as it was explained before.

The existent electronic circuits are just amplifiers of the “nano” signal supplied at the moment of detection.

The bigger sensor that surrounds the perimeter of the boardcircuit, is a sensor which reinforces the creation of the electrostatic field when moving the detector to locate any target.



11 – Center and Deep



As it was explained, ionization is the process of lossing atomic weight and generation of electrostatics by movement, friction, etc. according to the german scientist Loeb.

When moving the Center & Deep, it generates a ionic/electrostatic field, first by the movement, then by the substance generator of ions inside the Center & Deep chamber. The movement generates a “crash” , as explained before. This phenomenom just occurs when you have already found a target and there is an existent field around the buried object. For this phenomenom to occurs it is not necessary to supply any tension to the Center and Deep. It uses part of the energy which is in the located field.







The explanations detailed here are not exhaustive to the issue of LRDD, however I think they are enough for the time being for you to understand the basis of this new invention. Anyway please feel free to contact me to keep on exchanging ideas about Long Range Detection.









Awaiting your news,





Best Regards,









Damásio & Alonso

Inventors

MINEORO

Long Range Directional Detector with Classifier









JPFD/pce

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Esteban,

I repeat my previous post: as you have a working long range detector you can try to detect a gold/iron ground battery.
Also if it's not like a long buried target I think that near the ground battery it's possible some kind of reaction of the detector...

[Esteban]

FrancoItaly:
In the same way, is more cheap a copper-iron battery or copper-steel or copper-zinc.

We conducting this experiment: heat at light Sun for half or 1 hour a regular piece of copper and was detectable at 2 meters... What creates this?

Regarding this: over a copper plate put a zinc piece wich touch in the extremes of the plate. Leave at strong light Sun for half or 1 hour and connect a tester and measure the voltage, this is a galvanic-solar battery.

After the experiment, can cook hot-dogs:

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Esteban;

Only a problem: I don't like hot-dogs!!

I prefer hot-golds!!!

[ivconic]

Some details more on Negative Ion detector:
555 circuit generates voltage pulses at an adjustable rate
of between 0.6 and 4 Hz. The amplitude is also adjustable
between 0.xx and xx volts(dependable on type of transformer), in
this case it should be over 15 volts.The highest pulse energy
supplied by the generator is limited to a value of about
0.5mJ when using 10/25 cap.More energy needs higher cap.
In this case it is limited due to fact that a dish is an
"open&free flow" element in present design.555 circuit is
used as astable multivibrator.Output freq.is adjusted with
preset 100K.Bc107 and preset pot.10K form voltage source. The
condenser 10/25 is charged via resistor 4k7.Amplitude is preset with
pot.10k. Output resistance of 555 with cap.474 cause tr. BC337
to conduct 0.5ms of time.Whole action is monitored by flashing led.
Transformer is small signal transformer with 1/1.5 rate. It also
present a typical band pass for only certain freqs.Applying
different transformer would change overall performance and it'll
need quite different design.Secondary output signal of transformer
is rectified
with two diodes due to positive polarisation of the dish.An 105
cap. is coupled on dish side to provide almost continous feeding
with very smooth droops, due to prevent phenomenon reverse "spikes".
A value of 105 could be debated.Also diodes could be reversed due
to reverse polarisation of the dish.Dish is choosen cose of it's
wider plane, also "cage" can be applied, for narrow plane.
Ultra high impendance input is used in a bootstrap manner.Input
resistance is is boosted artificially to a high value.The simmilar
second input is applied with a slice different amp.level.Both are
fed to a diff.amp, and only a slice drift occur on the output.The
rest of the stages need not to be explained and can be be applied in
a various diff. manner.The main idea was to offer a diff. solution
in matter of ions detection....
Now, about metal(ore,gold,relics) detection.
I can agree with J Player in question of efficacy of this design in
long range metal detecting.It still has to be tested. I can also
agree in some Esteban overwievs.I found very interesting that Anker
post. Many of claims in there i can agree with.
Lets presume that it can detect metal burried in to ground deep,and
respecting some claims from Anker's post it should work as well.
But still I can not offer any possibility of discriminating
collected "signals", only a primary choice of detecting negative or
positive ions defined in the design already. Does ions really carry
their origin, I don't know. I dont think so! Also I can not agree
with claim from Anker'post:
"Electrostatic, when moving , is like a radio frequency wave which has the
property of “carrying” various signals, such as: audio, digital information,
video signals, color signals and many others. Electrostatics is like a transportation..."
It is too good to be true!As a radio amateur for over 20 years i do have
some knowledge in that matters.Comparing electrostatic with radio frequency
behaviour....ts!ts!ts! A huge mismatch!!!
and another:
"This explains the substance classifier. When the negative “ion” finds its twin
of opposite polarity, they love each other so intensively, that when they get
together they provoke a short-circuit autodestroying themselves. As in the Romeo
and Juliet movie, both of them die, but the proof of their death is a flask of
poison near them; in the same way, our “passionate ions” also leave a proof of
their death in “emiting a crash”, which generates an electrical signal so fast
as nano, pico, femto or atto seconds , detectable in sensitive electronic circuits
and projected for this aim..."
Again not true! Ions have tendency to adjoin very fast, therefore their journey
does'nt last long! This explain short range detection of ions. Negative ion does'nt
need to find its twin by origin, only by polarity, otherwise polarisation and use of
dish or cage would be a nonsence, or in the present case, device should detect only
ions with Al origin(since i advised Al dish)!!! It's simply not a true!
"...short-circuit autodestroying themselves..."
In that case I am wondering my self about that telescopic antena !? It's gonna
get thin, melt and "die hard", very fast in front of my eyes!?
And so on, and so on. Enough theory!
I can fully agree with J Player's doubt. Let's build that device and check it!
Only problem is where to find a long time burried gold to check it!?
If we know where to find that gold, than we don't need a detector!Ha,ha,ha.
Again J Player noted very smart:
"What Ivconic told us when he posted the schematic is: "Only one claim:
this device at least do something, despite some commercial devices do nothing!"

Yes. I was affraid to be confused by others as a "beleiver".I am skeptic, not a
"beleiver", but still I do have an open mind for alternative stuff, only I do
always insist
on some proofs, double-blind tests...etc.LRL sounds to good to be true.
As a long time prospector I would like most of all that LRL is able to do what
some people claims. It will turn my prospecting in to a easy walk on the field,
and put some easy money in my pockets.Sad but true it is not a case so far.
But as i really do have an open mind i still grow hope that some day LRL can be
a reallity for all people not just for "chosen" one.
regards!

P.S.
This ion detector is still very interesting, and I would like to see some
mods here, esspecially on the second stage, where the output signal is processed
after the diff.amp. I think that part of design is poor and need some
improvements.Can anybody post schematic of buffer stage after that diff. amp
for both: audio and scale metter.FrancoItaly noticed that 1mF tantal and the rest
on the right side can be better designed.I can agree.Anybody has any idea?
(people! show some schematics like Esteban,not just retorics...)

[Carl-NC]

I have been out-of-town, trying to catch up on everything... this is a very interesting thread, and exactly what this forum is intended for. Thanks for all the contributions.

Just a note... when you upload an attachment (image), please keep the size reasonable... 600-800 pixels wide is ideal.

- Carl

[Anker]

The Regard!

For checking the functioning the scheme of the detector possible to do the artificial generator "golden" negative (or positive) ion. This will imitate long ago hidden gold in ground. It is Enough to do the needle (the edge) from gild and tax on it for the land high power. The Device to execute in the manner of sticks, which possible install in the ground and provide the contact with the ground, on the other end of the stick - a generator ion. Now possible try to take the receiver on a certain distance flow blown off wind "golden" ion.

[J_Player]

In response to Esteban's and Ivconic's posts, I also would like to see a test that shows whether this machine can locate buried treasure. Since

Estaban has a test area with long buried targets samples, we already have a good test bed among the readers in this forum. And we have the circuit and expertise to build the ion detector machine.
I propose that an inexpensive ion detector is built using Ivconic's circuit and then tested to locate targets that have been buried a long time. This circuit can be built on 2 or 3 hobby perf-boards for a very low cost, and the antenna and dish can be salvaged for no cost. When this machine is completed and tested for finding ions, then I propose we use Esteban's test area to see how well the ion detector works. Then we can test the machine to see if it tells us where to find the targets.

This is how I propose that we can do this: First, Ivconic should build the detectror circuit and tune it and test it to insure that it works for collecting ions. Then send only the circuit boards to me along with trim pots connected (this is to make inexpensive shipping cost). I will install new batteries and build a new enclosure and dish and antenna. I will make preliminary tests to adjust the detector so it detects ions from known ion sources. Once it works, then I will go to Esteban's sample field along with any other forum members who want to watch, and we can see how well this machine works at locating the buried samples. This will also be a good opportunity to test the iron "ground battery" effects that Franco talks about.

I propose this test only if Ivconic and Esteban are willing to proceed. If Ivconic and Esteban are interested in testing this negative ion machine on Esteban's long-buried target sample field, then please contact me and make arrangements. J_Player59 at hotmail.

PS. I will also bring hot dogs for zinc grill, but would be better carne asada burritos.

My more detailed comments about the posts are below.

[J_Player]

Thank you Esteban, Anker, Franco and Ivconic for your information about using the negative ion detector.

Esteban has provided a very detailed method to use the ion detector. His method is to walk with the machine in hand, swinging the machine right and left as you walk. The machine should be held at a 90 degree angle away from the body while swinging it right to left and looking for variations in the signal. This method sounds similar to the method of using a conventional coil metal detector, except the ion detector is held at arm's height above the ground while walking perhaps a little faster than a person with a coil type detector would walk. When the target is located by a rapid rise in the signal, then it is pinpointed by walking in the other direction, similar to a method of pinpointing a target with a coil type deteector. Esteban cautions us to use the ion detector inland in locations away from high voltage power lines and other interference.

According to Esteban's explanation, the ion detector can be expected to locate ions or electrostatic field gradients in the vicinity of the buried target, but only if the target had been buried for a number of years. He says the buried metal target will develop an electric field around it or a field like the field surrounding a pole of a battery. This field is responsible for the signal seen on the negative ion detector according to Esteban.

According to Franco's theory, a ground battery can be made by putting 2 dissimilar metal objects in the ground 2 meters apart. And this ground battery can be detected with the ion detector because of the electric field of the ground battery. He apparently is talking about metal objects that have been recently placed in the ground.

Anker has posted the theory of operation of the Mineoro LRLs as told by a Damásio & Alonso from the Mineoro company. Portions of the Mineoro letter agree with statements that Esteban and Franco made about ions and electric fields. Much of this letter is simply theories advanced by Damásio & Alonso from Mineoro to explain their understanding of how the Minero devices work.

Ivconic returned and made comments to indicate he a skeptic who does not know if this machine can find treasure. He considers it only an electronic device that measures changes in the ion density in the air, and more testing is needed to see if it can locate long buried gold. After noting a mumber of apparent errors in Damásio & Alonso's theories, he goes on to say that he would like to see improvements in the signal processing portion of the ion detector.

My commentary is as follows:

1. Now we have a method of using the Ion detector, and an explanation of how it can be used to locate buried treasures from Esteban.

2. Ivconic asks about mods in the signal processing after the differential amp. I suppose any kind of signal processing can be done if we first know what we want to find out about the signal. If you want to find audio signals, then you can add a circuit with an adjustable bandpass filter that feeds to a small audio amp or rectifier to a meter. I would think that until we know what we are looking for the best information about the signal can be seen on an oscillosope. By testing the ion detector with different targets and looking at the signal with an oscilloscope, we can learn what are the important features of the signal to look for when locating treasures. After the testing is done, then we can easily build circuits that measure the treasure information in the signal.

Concerning the field and battery effect of buried objects, and how the ion detector senses the location of the object:

3. Battery effect not so strong as a commercial battery: We all know that if we put dissimilar metals in an electrolyte, we can expect a current to flow in a wire connected between the metals. We know there are ions being created and destroyed at the poles of the battery. These ions are generally confined to the electrolyte and they do not migrate to the atmosmphere in any significant amount for most batteries. Most of the ionic action takes place while a battery is being discharged or charged. A lesser amount of ionic activity occurs in a battery that is not connected to an active circuit. In order for a "ground battery" to work, it seems there must be moisture in the ground where the poles of the battery are. There must also be an electrolyte dissolved in the moisture. In the case of buried gold, which is considered inert, and any ions formed will be very small amount of gold atoms combining with the electrolyte (probably a salt of chlorine or a sulfate in the presence of moisture will form the electrolyte). If a few of the gold atoms combine with the electrolyte, then still the gold will become a cathode, as it is the least reactive of the metals to be found in the ground. The anode will be nearly any other element in the near vicinity of the buried gold which has contact with the same mousture and electrolyte. Nearly all common metals are more reactive than gold, and will become the anode if in close proximity to the gold. The most likely metal would be iron (black sands, magnetite, etc. In the regions where natural gold nuggets are found, we often find silver, copper, lead and traces of other metals. Any of these metals present could also become an anode. The anode would be decomposing as it reacted with the electrolyte, while the gold would remain relatively intact. If this "ground battery" were to be 100% efficient (as good as a gold/iron battery made in a laboratory with a suitable electrolyte), then the battery would develop less than 2 volts. The "ground battery" is not in these ideal conditions, and can be expected to develop a lower voltage and fewer ions. In many cases The ground battery has only damp soil or sands to form the electrolyte from elements in contact with the moisture.

4. Ionic activity from the "ground battery": There may be a mechanism by which airborne ions are sensed in a higher concentration above the buried target. I doubt that the mechanism is from Ions leaving the soil and migrating upwards through the air to the ion detector dish. If for some unexplained reason ions were leaving the buried target soil at a high rate, then it is not likely these ions would hover above the target without blowing away in the wind. I don't know what the actual mechanism is, but I doubt the detector is sensing ions that moved from the electrolyte of the "ground battery" to the air above, where the detector is located at arm'sheight. A simple experiment could be made to test this theory: Place a large plastic bag over the ground were the target is buried. place a similar bag over the ground where no target is buried. After waiting a few hours for the ions to accumulate in the bag, close the bottom of both bags and move them to where the ion detector is. You should now be able to sense a very high concentration of airborne ions from the bag that was over the target, but not from the other bag. My opinion is that if the ion detector finds more ion signal in the air above the area where the gold is buried, then these ions being detected did not originate in the ground electrolyte from the battery. There may be some connection to the underground gold, but it is hard for me to believe that ion migration into the air is the answer.

5. Electric field from ground battery: An electric field will exist in a battery which shows a voltage across the poles. This electric field is no stronger than the voltage over the distance that separates the poles. That is to say it is a very weak electric field, less than 2 volts over the distance between the gold and other metal in the damp soil. There also may be some mechanism that causes increased electric field measured at arm's height in the air above the buried target. I doubt this mechanism is the electric field produced from the ground battery effect. The 9v batteries that power the ion detector have a stronger electric field than the ground battery can create from it's electrolytic voltage generation (if it does in fact create a voltage). Consider: In dry air, it takes about 4000 volts to create a strong enough electric field that the air will ionize enough to throw a spark 1 cm. The static electric field that you can pick up from walking on the gound can easily become higher than this. The electric field caused by atmospheric conditions can be much greater than this. It is hard for me to imagine the ion detector measuring an electrical field from a source less than 2 volts under the ground when there are so many stronger electric fields from stray sources in the air where the detector is. I may be wrong, but It would be interesting to see some tests that tell us the answer.

In conclusion, I dont' say that the ion detector does not respond to a buried target. I say only that if it responds to a buried target, then the reason why it responds does not seem to be exactly the same as theories we have heard so far.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All

I noticed in Ivconic's circuit that there is not capacitor between pin 2/6 and ground of LM555' stage, this capacitor would determine the output frefrequency..