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#26
08-15-2007, 09:02 PM
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Please, you don't understand. Stay in your business.
You can't. I can with BFO, resonance-off and IB. Here a silver 1892 coin I found with BFO in search head in 1988, my first pistol, built for me by Alonso, with BRAND. If you don't have experience in electronic LRL and FINDS with it, is your problem, not mine.  The rest are your poor speculations. 
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#27
08-15-2007, 09:44 PM
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Do you measure 1Hz variations over 300KHz osc frequency ?
Never nobody said that the difference in hertz is 1 in 300 Khz. Said few variations in hertz, wich is not the same. New persons in forum who read this can believe that you're telling the total truth and others are liars.
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#28
08-15-2007, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
What TX frequency are you using, and is the selected frequency important?
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#29
08-16-2007, 02:05 AM
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High frequency in range 300 kHz is more sensitive, because, of course, variation in hertz is greater, but at this freq. silver paper is very good detectable at few meters. 60 to 90 kHz is more selective and insensitive to silver paper.
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#30
08-16-2007, 05:09 AM
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Ha.
... ha ..... ha Hi Esteban  Ohhh ... you give us your technology a little and little (as we say in Greece with dropper ). At how many years you will give us all your technology ???? My regards
__________________
Geo
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#31
08-16-2007, 07:16 AM
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Hi Esteban,
counting 1Hz or 2Hz or 3Hz over 300KHz is about the same thing. Changes nothing in practice. 1Hz -> 1/300000 = 3.33333333333.... * 10^-6 (3 ppm) 2Hz -> 2/300000 = 6.66666666666.... * 10^-6 (6 ppm) Even at 10Hz over 300KHz is 30ppm. Do you say that your circuit can find coins from meters (or hundred meters ?) using 3ppm or 30ppm frequency variarion detection ? In real BFO or OFF-RESONANCE there are KHz variations on the same frequency. More than 1000 times of yours. A 3ppm (or 30ppm) variation could be due to as many factors that you'll never discover from where it arrives. E.g. a capacitor could heat 0.1 °C more and you'll got 30ppm frequency shift. Quartz crystals have often a span of +/- 30ppm and even more. Do you use cesium in your timebase ? You'll never detect a 3ppm variation from a remote object meters away(supposing that this variation exist for real) with these garage made toys. BTW I never bought one of these things you call LRL ...see some used by friends... other LRLs ever not seen cause nobody found anything with that, so they reselled to other naive THs. I think that all this stuff don't work, can't work. Best regards, Max
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#32
08-16-2007, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
yes you wrote: "As I said, you can't hear variation in few hertz but simple circuit can make audible. " few Hertz, not 1Hz. For few I mean 2 or 3 or 5 maybe, for sure not 10Hz. What do you mean for few ? Best regards, Max
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#33
08-16-2007, 05:02 PM
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In real BFO or OFF-RESONANCE there are KHz variations on the same frequency. More than 1000 times of yours.
Is true if you expect in a BFO, for example, hear 100 Hz, 500 Hz or 1 kHz, so this is the difference when detection occurs. But with another additional circuit before occurs this "great" variation you can hear in amp stage a type of "breeze" and this isn't an audible tone. So, this minielevation in sound level before occurs real audible tone is the theme. Various times I wrote about it. Geo, calm, as many here make some "pressure" for to reveal part or all of it, there are anothers in this field who "press" me in other direction! The law of action and reaction!
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#34
08-16-2007, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
you can multiply frequency shift but you'll lose "resolution". Can't detect 3ppm or 30ppm variations with your units. No way. Detection of 1Hz or 10Hz variation over e.g. 300Khz is impossible for any homemade detector. Require very special technology that you can't pack in so small dimensions we see in your picture. I can't treat the topic here, for different reasons. I know BFOs and OFF-Resonance detectors... I know everything about them, realized first off-res at 7... using a schematic from a magazine, you could imagine ?  Much like a radio... have to tune with sweep generator... bell-filters and everything.I'm relatively young but know absolutely anything about the principles and design behind them. But if I'm wrong, proof that, please send us a working schematic like the one described in the other thread. Kind regards, Max
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#36
08-17-2007, 10:46 PM
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Hi locator,
Quote:
Best wishes, J_P
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#37
08-17-2007, 10:49 PM
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By the way, I'm trying to ignore the other diatribe being posted here.  I think it's pushing you in the wrong direction, and I have to pull harder to overcome it. 
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#38
08-17-2007, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
. A circular box , nothing else. You can put everything inside it.Regards
__________________
Geo
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#39
08-18-2007, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
...an Ectoplasm container ? could be everything inside, be filled just with pure air or... even the genie of the lamp... Who knows ? maybe in the instruction manual there is some "...then rub the dish for a while...that way you'll charge the genie with you static electricity and ions!"  Shape means nothing. Kind regards, Max
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#43
08-22-2007, 07:10 AM
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For all members of this forum
Greetings to all members of this forum
After reading the opinions that some members publish on this forum, about our products , we observed that there is a tendency from certain members, to connect our detectors with the products of the company Mineoro. For this reason we have been were forced to defend ourselves and to inform all the members of the forum, in order to make sure that there will be no other problems or misunderstandings or impressions in the future, concerning our products and the iconos-md company to those interested in Long range metal detectors. And we begin by saying a few words about the operating principle of our iconos-md Long range Gold detector and also for the future products which will be introduced to the worldwide market by our company. In this sector we are compelled to give ONLY in general lines, for confidential reasons certain information about our revolutionary Gold sensor system which has been implemented into our Long range metal detectors. Therefore as you may understand it is not possible for us to give out complete information and theory of operation regarding the sensor, having been the result of many years of effort and research ,just to convince some skeptics who also are professional or amateur electronics engineers and who love to reverse engineer everything they see. We are forced to protect our invention by this way because if we dont the result will be the publishing of all our efforts in a worldwide scale. We believe that research is a personal effort, and no one will give away his discoveries without a certain personal profit. If we remove the majority of members in this forum who are purely amateur enthusiasts and hobbyists, there also exist professionals who are trying to acquire information for commercial exploitation. We on our part, cannot know who these people are that fall into this category, and we also have no way of knowing who the true amateurs are in the immense woldwide web ,where everyone uses a false name, and only a limited number of them use their real name. For these reasons we are forced to limit the information on the operating theory of our sensor system, which is our intellectual property and we will not allow any free exploitation of this information by anyone. Consequently the general operating theory that we have in our site, is for our judgement, sufficient for anyone interested to acquire this detector.What someone really wants is to have a working detector that will give him the results that he is asking for, and we on our part must keep the know how confidential and protected. We believe that our position on this matter is sincere. It is irrelevant for us if you do not want to admit it but it must be respected. Another matter that has resulted is that certain members of this forum deliberately disrepute us purposely through their publications. Here we want to clarify that our first orders are due to be delivered by the end of August. How is it possible that certain persons judge and compare and they discredit a detector that they do not have, and have never used, but also have not even seen yet? This is a negative situation for our interests, which will allow us at any moment that we judge right to press legal charges against anyone who purposely wants to disrepute our name via the internet or any other means. There is an effort to connect our devices with other manufacturers like Mineoro. Whatever opinion anyone has for the Mineoro detectors does not concern us and is his own private matter. But we are concerned when people try to connect us with Mineoro and they try to link us with them about the method of detection and operating principles of the iconos-md Detectors. We do not know the theory of operation of the Mineoro detectors and even if we knew, it does not allow us to take a stand, but we certainly know ours and we can say that they have many differences between them. A fact that we can publish is that our detector uses a microwave aerial in combination with a specially manufactured revolutionary sensor for Gold and this creates a big difference in detection principles. Also some similar expressions that we use do not mean essentially same operating theory of the detectors. The only resemblance that we have with the Mineoro detectors is that we also can detect gold from Long distances. Lastly a company, especially a new company in this area, must be judged by it's works. Shortly we will present a special Tesla coil exclusively for PI Detectors, which as many know is very difficult to manufacture, but it will give you the possibility to understand and see the efforts that we make in order for everyone to have better results in metal detecting. Remember that every honest effort is for everybody's benefit, and should be faced seriously and not with disreputive reactions or other ways. Regards to all The iconos Team
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#44
08-22-2007, 08:18 AM
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For now you're just making advertising for free here.
Your avatar is somehow explicit. As I remember the forum rules make an explicit prohibition of making direct advertise of a product if not in the "Advertising Forum" section. You can read rules in the "Annuncements/Commercial vs Non-commercial posts" by Carl. You can advertise your product in the Advertising Forum. Kind regards, Max
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#45
08-22-2007, 12:15 PM
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Hi iconos-md,
Welcome to the forum. You are welcome to talk here as much as you like about your metal detector. Carl is the owner of this forum, and he says it is ok for manufacturers to post in any of the forums including links to your website is ok. If you want to make advertising pages, you can do this free in the advertising forum below. We are all interested to see some tests how well your Iconos detector works. And we are interested to know the principles it works on. We don't need to know all the details inside and schematic. But it would be interesting to know what kind of frequencies it uses, and how far it can find buried treasure. This forum has mostly skeptic people because no other long range locating company will demonstrate their equipment finding treasure in front of us so we can see. If you are willing to conduct demonstrations, then all will be happy to see the results. If the results are proven to work, then you may become very famous here, because people all over the world look here to see what is a good detector to buy. But if you don't show any good proof that the Iconos will find treasure, then many people will say bad things about it. We have heard many stories about long range locators guaranteed to find treasures. But when people buy these detectors, most of them never find the treasures, and they want their money back. If you show us that your locator will work to find the treasures, then you will become the hero for all in this forum. I hope the best for you and your team. We wait to see what your locator will find, and some description of the principle it works. Best wishes, J_P
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#47
08-26-2007, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Last hope ? Yes , I wanna see too... some new ions. I like ionic explainations... are better than SUDOKU ! Kind regards, Max
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#48
08-29-2007, 06:13 AM
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Scientific facts, iconos-md
Answer to Carl and others request about
Scientific facts Between any two points on the surface of the earth, there generally exists a difference in electrical potential, commonly measured in volts (or, millivolts). There are two natural 'grounds' (natural sources that can absorb or supply more charge than humans can generate). One is the ionosphere, where ionized gasses conduct electricity, and the other is the earth (hence, the origin of the term "ground"), where ions in soil moisture and ground water conduct electricity. There exists a tremendous potential difference between these grounds, a difference maintained by the atmosphere (an insulator). Because the air is not a perfect insulator, a slight electrical current slowly flows through the air, resulting in a near-surface gradient of several hundred volts/meter. There are three basic geophysical phenomena associated with Long range Metal detection. Firstly, Spontaneous Potential. This phenomenon is a natural north-south flow of electrical current, driven by the dynamics of the ionosphere, and generates what we call TELLURIC electrical currents. Since the earth is a good (but not a perfect) conductor, Ohm's Law implies a pattern of potential differences due to this current between buried objects and the surrounding soil. Secondly, Electrochemical potential can be generated by the ground battery phenomenon of metals in contact with a uniform soil, or, from metals in contact with ground water. This effect results in anomalies above the ground - interesting variations of electrostatic and ionic fields in an otherwise dull, uninteresting earth atmosphere. It is such variations, or anomalies, that we seek which form around buried GOLD and other noble metals after many years. The resulting chemical reaction makes the Gold act much like a large battery. By detecting these anomalies we can find buried metals from large distances. A third mechanism responsible for natural voltage differences around buried metals is the streaming potential. Flowing water strips electrons from the metal and a potential difference occurs with the surrounding area. In areas of significant topographic relief, there is often an SP pattern highly correlated with elevation (water generally flows downhill, even underground). Water flowing toward a cone of depression can also cause an SP anomaly. SP has been used to map geothermal fluid circulation in The Geysers field north of San Francisco, California. ( Also SP has been used to map fractures carrying water under dams). So using the above scientific facts we confirm, that long time buried metals and especially noble metals like Gold, form an electrostatic and ionic field anomaly around them, in the immediate vicinity of the object, and above the ground also which extends many meters away from the object (Electrochemical potential). The intensity and radius of this emanating electrostatic ionic field increases with time. The buried object must be buried at least 15 years, in order to form an electrostatic ionic field, and it reaches maximum intensity after 40 years. So in practice the buried metal forms the ground battery and ions migrate from it’s surface to the surrounding minerals in the soil (read above Electrochemical potential )In this case the electrolyte is the soil itself. The more the soil is moist, so much faster the phenomenon appears. This same phenomenon has been proved with conventional metal detectors also, in a small scale. Freshly buried objects are detected, only when the disk is directly over the target. However when the object has been buried for many years, then the detector signals it’s presence from a larger distance and it can detect it deeper than the freshly buried object. Thank you The iconos Team
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#49
08-29-2007, 07:33 AM
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Hi iconos-md,
Thank you for your description of science. This sounds very similar to my description of science I made in "some considerations". Very good to hear your ideas how science works. The problem is you did not answer our questions. I already know the science you talk about. What I asked is not the description of science. I asked to see a demonstration of your locator finding treasure. Can you provide some demonstration of your locator finding treasure? Also, you did not answer Carl's questions. He asked 2 questions: 1. I would like to see published science articles that support this claim. 2. I would like to see verifiable reports of treasure found by professionals (i.e., published archaeologists) using this device. This means Carl wants you to show some publications made by accredited scientists who say this electrostatic and ionic field develops around gold. He is also asking for reports from accredited professionals like archaeologists who publish their findings and are using the Iconos locator. I am sure you have these reports from accredited professionals available. Carl is only waiting to see you show them. Best wishes, J_P
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#50
08-29-2007, 09:04 AM
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Scientific facts, iconos-md
Hello Jplayer
It seems there is a misunderstanding.I already gave you the science behind the electric field anomalies around buried metals.These facts are from scientists worldwide who publish this biography.It is another matter about how we detect these fields with the iconos-md.That is the secret part of the matter and it will never be published.I dont understand your confusion since these methods are already proven and are used in geoexploration to detect electric field anomalies from buried metals from long distances.( you say This means Carl wants you to show some publications made by accredited scientists who say this electrostatic and ionic field develops around gold) I just did. Secondly you want a demonstration. Do you know where the long time buried gold is in order to test our units? I think not.So how will we demonstrate this unit on your terms? This cannot be tested in the Lab but only in the field.So if you want to test it we will be happy to sell you our unit any time you want it.Then you will see for yourself if it works. Thank you The iconos Team.
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Test!
Linear Mode
