Terra Gold LR 200 (video)

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Several early experiments have shown that when the Swivel Rods are balanced in a wooden vice and a 10 foot lamp cord was attached to the Rods, and the ends of the wires held by one person, another person could hold their hand(s) up to 5 inches away from the tips of the rods and cause them to move right, left, or spin in a circle by the influence of the hand(s)

This is purely hearsay, unless you are able to post a reference to the scientific literature that details these experiments.

Personally though, I suspect that my request will somehow be related to an event involving Hell freezing over.

[Dell Winders]

Qiaozhi, Apparently you are hearing (reading) what I say. So, yes, you are posting hearsay, while I am posting original content.

I try to remain tolerant of your limited mentality to think and do for your self. If I were a degreed Scientist the papers would be published. But, I am not a scientist, at least not in the academic sense.

In the meantime. if you feel you are mentally, or physically, incapable of duplicating the experiments yourself, then go ahead and get out your winter clothing. Dell

[Dave J.]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

This is purely hearsay, unless you are able to post a reference to the scientific literature that details these experiments.

Personally though, I suspect that my request will somehow be related to an event involving Hell freezing over.

This is a "read the advertisement" moment, George. Dell already dropped strong hints that:

1. He has no personal knowledge of the supposed experiments.

2. Whatever the results of the supposed experiments were, they were apparently so negative even on the part of those who were doing them, as to warrant no further interest.

In other words Hell already froze over, and the report of the freeze came direct from Florida -- in July.

The answer to the whole thing is right there in Dell's L-rods, which he has proudly described.

Dell, why do you keep arguing against your own L-rods? Be a competent businessman and pitch the separate transmitter!

--Dave J.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Qiaozhi, Apparently you are hearing (reading) what I say. So, yes, you are posting hearsay, while I am posting original content.

I try to remain tolerant of your limited mentality to think and do for your self. If I were a degreed Scientist the papers would be published. But, I am not a scientist, at least not in the academic sense.

In the meantime. if you feel you are mentally, or physically, incapable of duplicating the experiments yourself, then go ahead and get out your winter clothing. Dell

As I suspected ... Hell is more likely to freeze over before receiving any hard evidence of your so-called experiments. If you don't have any scientific papers as reference, then what other evidence do you have, apart from hearsay? Actually, I don't know why I'm even bothering to ask, as we all know the real reasons why you are unable to grant my request.

Finally, please try your best to be civil. Whenever you find yourself backed into a corner, I've noticed you have a nasty tendency towards personal insults. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so I suggest you think more carefully before posting.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dave J.

This is a "read the advertisement" moment, George. Dell already dropped strong hints that:

1. He has no personal knowledge of the supposed experiments.

2. Whatever the results of the supposed experiments were, they were apparently so negative even on the part of those who were doing them, as to warrant no further interest.

In other words Hell already froze over, and the report of the freeze came direct from Florida -- in July.

The answer to the whole thing is right there in Dell's L-rods, which he has proudly described.

Dell, why do you keep arguing against your own L-rods? Be a competent businessman and pitch the separate transmitter!

--Dave J.

When Dell wrote: "Several early experiments have shown that ...", I assumed he was referring to experiments performed by someone else, and therefore there may possibly (with a following wind) be a remote chance that these so-called experiments could potentially have been documented somewhere. As no proof seems to exist, then Dell's "clamped L-Rod" story resides clearly in the realms of "hearsay".

However, in a different thread, Dell claimed that I am one of Carl's cronies, disrespectful, Carl's puppet, arrogant, ignorant, need to wake up, a scientific pretender, need a reality check, a rabidly biased LRL skeptic, full of self-deception, pathological, totally biased, total (sic) ignorant, constantly ranting, full of irrational suppositions, mentally challenged, and have a limited mental ability.

So what do I know?

[Dell Winders]

So, What do you know about the subject? From reading your posts, apparently nothing. So why do you keep pretending you know more than those who have devoted their time energies, and money to learn for themselves and you keep posting comments based in ignorance, and nonsensical beliefs. If you want to have some laughs let pretend psychiatrist Dave J, analyze your comments. He has had a lot of practice in being wrong.

FYI, I duplicated the experiment two others had told me they had conducted, and the Rods reacted with equally positive results as I previously described.

Certainly a Scientifically oriented mind, would prefer to prove the experiment for themselves than accept someone's word for it? Right?

Truth be known, I was the original LRL skeptic before Carl, and Randi.org directed their public attacks only at me for 3 years trying to put me out of business and make a name for them selves. It didn't work, I'm nearly 80 years old and still here with my reputation for honesty still intact. Nothing you say will affect me, or the truth of what I say. Dell

[Dave J.]

George, you're missing the point. Dell's post was itself the documentation that spilled the beans. Nothing more was needed. Dell's been hearing "read the advertisement!" for a long time now, but you're still new to the concept.

* * * * * * *

Dell, you're working very hard to discredit your own L-rods here, what the hell has gotten into you? Just because you're getting old doesn't mean you don't need to eat. Please quit trying to cast doubt on unbalanced L-rod design and get back to hyping the separate transmitter concept.

You keep believing that I'm your enemy, and I'm not. Heck, a few years ago I offered to help you write better ad copy, the offer was sincere, and it got stuck on the problem of how to afford a lawyer to review the whole thing, neither of us was in a financial position to hire a lawyer for that purpose at that time. Meanwhile you seem to have managed to say out of jail, and neither of us has any of knowing what would have come of my proposed collaboration had it happened. .......I occasionally offer ad copy improvement advice for my present employer, and they've learned to listen to that advice and often even take it. Advertising is psychology. "Read the advertisement!" Psychology is also the single most important (and difficult) aspect of good product design, whether it be an LRL or a real metal detector. A supposed high-tech LRL doesn't even need to have any functional electronic technology at all, that's how important the role of psychology is in LRL design and marketing. It's hard to sell a metal detector that just plain doesn't detect metal, technology that works is in effect the entry fee ya gotta pay in order to get the opportunity to put psychology to work.

Is marketing LRL's unethical? To some people that's an easy question to answer, and the answer is no. I'm quite fond of the teachings of both Jesus and St. Charlie (Darwin), and those historic commentators on how reality really works offer a more complex perspective on the subject.

Some people are born with little in the way of critical thinking skills. Even striving to be honest with themselves, they're easily bamboozled. At least they can face up to the fact they're deficient in this area, and ask the advice of better mentally equipped friends before making major decisions. I don't regard it as ethical to target LRL's to such people, it's like selling cigarrettes to kids, or a clerk short-changing a customer with Down's syndrome.

Then there's the other folk, who in most areas of life do just fine with critical thinking, but when they really, really want something, their wants control their life and that makes them perfect candidates to be lied to. Two of history's greatest prophets, Gautama Siddartha and James the Just, provided incisive commentary on the dangers of wanting, they regarded it as the path to death.

If someone grew up with dreams of a "majick wand, one that could even point to treasure", and refused to let that one go along with Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, they're fair game, and that's the psychological reason why L-rod based LRL's dominate the market. They're majick wands. Of course adults unlike children do not pay $2.95 for a majick wand, the price tag is usually in the thousands.

This is the Internet Age. They've been warned. If in the end their wants control them, hell isn't frozen after all, there's plenty of room for more people to be roasted. Go for 'em, Dell, pitch the separate transmitter thing, you ain't got much time left and I'd hate to hear that you died of starvation.

And, anyone paying dollars, buy American! And not those other companies who never post here, buy from Dell.

Good evening, sir, sleep well, and awake refreshed tomorrow knowing that even in your odd business there is a mission in life to be found.

--Dave J.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Dave J.

Everyone knows why there are ZERO counterbalanced L-rods on the market-- it's because everyone knows the damn things won't work! Anybody who thought maybe it would work and gave it a try found out the hard way that it doesn't work, and you have given a description (whether an actual or merely fictional event) of such a learning experience. Despite decades of creativity on the part of experimenters, there are ZERO counterbalanced L-rods on the market. It's because they don't work.

I tried counterbalanced L-rods once. Nope, they don't work.

Originally Posted by Dave J.

Meanwhile if anyone reading this thread suspects that standalone LRL's are worthless and believes that a separate transmitter is needed to get effective operation, by all means buy one (with your own money)-- from good ol' Dell, made in the USA!

(Sorry admins, I hope that's not too much marketing.)

The value of the lesson learned is proportional to the money spent. So I say, buy the most expensive LRL you can afford to get the best education possible.

- Carl

[Dave J.]

And "xmen", there you have it. The consensus on this side of the Atlantic is that you ain't got nuthin' (your own videos prove that). Pity poor Geo who in order to rehabilitate you has to overcome the testimony of Dell Himself. It's a job which I suppose Geo would have preferred not to have had.

At least I don't understand Greek, only a few written words, and the rest is video which needs little translation. Fraudsters from Latin America tend to run and hide when I show up, because their superstition that nobody north of the Rio Grande can read Spanish or Portuguese gets nuked. Send "Hung" a PM and ask him between him and me, who posts more links to Mineoro and spends time to discuss their content. He is afraid to post links to Mineoro whereas I gladly do so because Mineoro themselves provide the evidence of their fraud, just as you do to yours, that's why I posted the link to your other video.

The problem with doing LRL demos on video, is that people can see what you did or claimed to do. That is information that works against you, unless they are people who do speak Greek and don't know enough English to read the information on the Internet.

So, let's suppose you're living in Greece, and hungry, maybe even trying to feed a family, and "ya gotta do what ya gotta do".

My advice is this: don't post in forums, too many people know too much. Our USA Thomas Alfilani (sp?) got this figured out a long time ago, he's the major LRL'er who has no regular presence on LRL forums, only the occasional "ping" where he gets slapped all the way to Siberia and the problem goes away for another year or two until it all happens again. You can be smarter than Tommy, and here's how it's done: Don't post in areas where people know what you're doing! Prey only on the clueless!

--Dave J.

[Dell Winders]

Dave, in many aspects you also appear clueless, and are merely guessing and pretending you know. Don't be so obvious in advertising your lack of knowledge. Maybe you will get someone to believe you. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

So why do you keep pretending you know more than those who have devoted their time energies, and money to learn for themselves and you keep posting comments based in ignorance, and nonsensical beliefs.

This is really the saddest thing of all; that after more than 30 years of self-deception you are still ..... self-deluded.

30 years of wasted time believing in something that doesn't work and is simply a trick of the mind! Keeping your head buried in the sand and failing to understand reality is (I'm sorry to have to say it) truly a display of ignorance.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that Dell actually believes this stuff, so he's perfectly correct when he describes himself as "honest". The majority of LRL purveyors know this stuff is fraudulent, whereas Dell is so deep in the LRL "hole" that he will never be able to climb out.

[Dave J.]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Dave, in many aspects you also appear clueless, and are merely guessing and pretending you know. Don't be so obvious in advertising your lack of knowledge. Maybe you will get someone to believe you. Dell

Dammit, Dell, wake up! We've known each other for more than 10 years, we've disagreed on a lot of stuff and we've agreed on more than you'll ever publically admit to.

We're both "old pharts", you're a lot older than I am but unlike you I wasn't born with a long liver, so it's entirely possible that you'll be able to visit my gravestone. However you may need a fogie-walker to do it.

If perchance I outlive you, I don't want to read that you starved to death. I want to read that you cleaned the clocks of people who wanted their clocks cleaned fair and square.

Wishing you the best (within reasonable limits),

--Dave J.

[Dave J.]

Dell, back to that "be a competent businessman" stuff:

You've attacked the schitt out of standalone swiveller LRL's. You have lots of support on this, don't squander it!

Here goes again: "separate transmitter". I don't offer any claim that it'll work any better, but at least it sets your stuff apart from the Greek Thingie and the Electroscope and Ranger frauds which you have seemingly denounced in this very thread.

If you continue to disparage your own product with claims that you have the inside dope that your L-rods are designed wrong, that's a hard act to follow with an elephant schitt shovel! I can't fix it for you, you need to get your story straight.

--Dave J.

[Dell Winders]

Sorry Dave, I have no interest in trying compete against exaggerated, or untruthful LRL advertising. My business is, and has been for the past 15 years from "Word of mouth". I have no need to make extra-ordinary claims and my customers are informed of the limitations, before they buy.

This may not be considered competent business by your standards but it is honest and totally open for public scrutiny. Since I started building my own products there has not been even one consumer complaint, an enviable record I can take pride in.

My MFD products are what they are, and they are only going to be as good as the knowledge and experience of the person using them. Therefore a lot of time and practice is devoted to the best methods of using the L-Rods in a LRL application, andproper survey techniques. There is a big difference in the use, and interpretation of L-Rods for Mental Dowsing, or LRL physics. The latter has more limitations that should be understood by the operator to aid in the LRL's successful use.

Thank you for your concern but I am not interested in expanding my customer base any further. There are times when I have been backlogged with orders for months and it's a struggle for me to catch up. Keeping customers waiting is Not competent business and I don't want to get into that cycle again.

But, again I thank you. Dell

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Dave J.

And "xmen", there you have it. The consensus on this side of the Atlantic is that you ain't got nuthin' (your own videos prove that). Pity poor Geo who in order to rehabilitate you has to overcome the testimony of Dell Himself. It's a job which I suppose Geo would have preferred not to have had.

At least I don't understand Greek, only a few written words, and the rest is video which needs little translation. Fraudsters from Latin America tend to run and hide when I show up, because their superstition that nobody north of the Rio Grande can read Spanish or Portuguese gets nuked. Send "Hung" a PM and ask him between him and me, who posts more links to Mineoro and spends time to discuss their content. He is afraid to post links to Mineoro whereas I gladly do so because Mineoro themselves provide the evidence of their fraud, just as you do to yours, that's why I posted the link to your other video.

The problem with doing LRL demos on video, is that people can see what you did or claimed to do. That is information that works against you, unless they are people who do speak Greek and don't know enough English to read the information on the Internet.

So, let's suppose you're living in Greece, and hungry, maybe even trying to feed a family, and "ya gotta do what ya gotta do".

My advice is this: don't post in forums, too many people know too much. Our USA Thomas Alfilani (sp?) got this figured out a long time ago, he's the major LRL'er who has no regular presence on LRL forums, only the occasional "ping" where he gets slapped all the way to Siberia and the problem goes away for another year or two until it all happens again. You can be smarter than Tommy, and here's how it's done: Don't post in areas where people know what you're doing! Prey only on the clueless!

--Dave J.

Don't be so sure that at this area the people knows?????
They don't know anything about dowsing or LRL!!!!

[Dell Winders]

Pretenders! Big Ego's are at risk. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Geo

Don't be so sure that at this area the people knows?????
They don't know anything about dowsing or LRL!!!!

The reality is that this forum is one of the very few places on the internet where both dowsing and LRLs are very well understood, and the true facts laid bare. That's why dowsing proponents get so upset when their belief system is challenged. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that dowsing works.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Pretenders! Big Ego's are at risk. Dell

Which is exactly what I was referring to by the huge hole you've dug for yourself over the last 30+ years. Your ego is now firmly stuck at the bottom. You should have left a exit route where you could escape, just in case you eventually woke up to the fact that dowsing is a pile of medieval psychic nonsense.

I read an amusing article recently where so-called psychic ability was described as being similar to yoghurt weaving, and that map dowsing (another one of Dell's delusions) was popular with some people, as it reduced the level of ridicule from passers-by.

[Dell Winders]

WIS! Dell

[Dell Winders]

Qiaozi, It's nice to know you can read, but your moderating skills are lacking. It's hard to determine if the subject of this thread is about the physics of operating a Long Range Locator, Mental Dowsing, About Dell, or an opinion platform for Qiaozi's to demonstrate his disdain for LRL users.

QUOTE FROM DAVE J; You just explained why a balanced L-rod doesn't work-- insufficient field strength. You need that gravitational field to be able to point the sucker, and if you cancel the influence of that field on the rod by counterbalancing it, ya ain't got squat unless you magnetize the rod, in which case you have a magnetic compass that actually does respond to a field.

No, I didn't. I'm sorry I was not more specific when speaking to a little dog gagging on a chewed curtain. I was referring to the Strength of "Magnetic Fields", Not the Gravitational field. Maybe later, I will try to explain why Magnetic conditions will prevent an LRL from working.

There may be some merit to using Magnetized L-Rods. In theory, the L-rods reverse polarity while held in Human hands. If true, in practice this is why even Copper Rods are repelled by anomalous Magnetic fields.

I have briefly tested Magnetized Stainless Steel Rods, but have not done any experimenting. Dell

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The reality is that this forum is one of the very few places on the internet where both dowsing and LRLs are very well understood, and the true facts laid bare. That's why dowsing proponents get so upset when their belief system is challenged. There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that dowsing works.

So... science is so little!!!!

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Qiaozi, It's nice to know you can read, but your moderating skills are lacking. It's hard to determine if the subject of this thread is about the physics of operating a Long Range Locator, Mental Dowsing, About Dell, or an opinion platform for Qiaozi's to demonstrate his disdain for LRL users.



No, I didn't. I'm sorry I was not more specific when speaking to a little dog gagging on a chewed curtain. I was referring to the Strength of "Magnetic Fields", Not the Gravitational field. Maybe later, I will try to explain why Magnetic conditions will prevent an LRL from working.

There may be some merit to using Magnetized L-Rods. In theory, the L-rods reverse polarity while held in Human hands. If true, in practice this is why even Copper Rods are repelled by anomalous Magnetic fields.

I have briefly tested Magnetized Stainless Steel Rods, but have not done any experimenting. Dell

I know your technical ability is somewhat lacking, but it should be obvious that the topic of this thread concerns the Terra Gold LR 200. From the video it is immediately clear that this device is nothing more than a dowsing rod with some additional do-nothing electronics.

As to whether this is supposed to be:

1. About the physics of operating an LRL --- Not likely as LRLs have more to do with psychology than physics, unless you consider their interaction with gravity.
2. Mental dowsing --- Which is a term seemingly invented by yourself, but is suitably vague so as to mean nothing.
3. About Dell --- Well, if it helps your ego.
4. My opinion platform --- The scientific viewpoint is not my personal view, but it is the rational view of everyone with a modicum of scientific knowledge. Also, I do not have disdain for all LRL users. You might have noticed my willingness to assist those wanting to experiment in this grey area of metal detecting. It is the dowsing nonsense that I object to, and particularly such idiotic practices as map dowsing.

By the way, I see that you still find it exceptionally difficult to curb the insults. Apparently I am now a "little dog gagging on a chewed curtain", and have a lack of moderating skills. The list seems endless.

[Dell Winders]

But Qiaozhi, This thread is not about Map Dowsing?
So, you are a hate monger, who enjoys spreading untruths and pretends it's Scientific. That's no excuse for grabbing Dave J's credit for the curtain chewing dog and making it your own. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

But Qiaozhi, This thread is not about Map Dowsing?
So, you are a hate monger, who enjoys spreading untruths and pretends it's Scientific. That's no excuse for grabbing Dave J's credit for the curtain chewing dog and making it your own. Dell

Correct. This thread is not about map dowsing. It is about the Terra Gold LR 200, which is a dowsing rod with some additional electronics. The reference to map dowsing was made as an example of the sort of nonsense that dowsers believe, as if wandering around with a couple of bent coat hangers wasn't idiotic enough by itself.

OK - my mistake. Dave is the "little dog gagging on a chewed curtain", whereas I am one of Carl's cronies, disrespectful, Carl's puppet, arrogant, ignorant, need to wake up, a scientific pretender, need a reality check, a rabidly biased LRL skeptic, full of self-deception, pathological, totally biased, total (sic) ignorant, constantly ranting, full of irrational suppositions, mentally challenged, have a limited mental ability, and lack moderating skills.

Thanks for that Dell. I stand corrected.

[Dave J.]

I rather like that scene in the "Wizard of Oz" movie where the dog Toto pulls the curtain aside exposing the charlatan "Wizard".

Never met an LRL'er who liked that same scene.

When I was a kid I discovered that most preachers didn't like it either. It didn't turn me into an atheist but it did teach me who the biggest hypocrites were.

--Toto

[Dave J.]

I predict that Dell will suddenly pretend to like that scene after all. Your turn, Dell!

--Dave J.