Dell has made a number of comments indicating he does not find any difference between long buried gold and recently buried gold, but he never actually made a definite statement to that effect. I would think he does not recognize any halo effect on gold. This is an example of where different LRL users have different opinions about how the devices work. Keep in mind, Dell does not agree with many of the claims made by LRL manufacturers. His views on how LRLs work is not the same as what Mineoro says.

Based on what I have heard from a lot of LRL users as well as conventioinal detectorists, It seems there are a lot of people that notice this "halo effect" which seems to disappear after they dig up the buried object. Because of the numbers of people who report finding halos, I consider it a worthwhile lead to follow in discovering the secrets of locating buried targets.

The chemistry involved is pretty basic: In addition to using the known solvents for gold, you can easily create gold ions in solution by putting a gold object in hydrochloric acid, then adding a litle household bleach (sodium hypochlorite). When the chlorine gas dissipates, you will have positively charged gold ions in solution, which would dry into gold chloride. But the available chemistry of soil is not conducive to producing gold ions in any measurable maounts, even if the best conditions of acid soil wet with ocean brine. The necessary acid constituants of th soil could be HCl or other acids caused by mineral reactions or from organic sources.

My opinion is any halo detected is caused by the other alloying metals which leach out from the surface of the gold target and into the soil. This is known to happen in buried copper pipes which can develop leaks due to corrosion of the interior or exterior surface of the pipe in contact with mineralized water or damp mineralized soil. There also is a "battery" component involved where dissimilar metals are present, such as solder joints, or connections to iron pipes, that rapidly accelerates corrosion and ion production. It should be noted that any "halo effect" may also involve elements of an electric current flowing, or voltage in the halo vicinity as well as the presence of ions. While any electrical properties in the "halo" region would be small, the effect they have on a detector search coil might be very noticable.

Here are some pictures of american copper clad pennies dug up from less than 8 inches in the sand of a California beach where the ocean water keeps the coins wet. Once a pinhole leak allows ocean water into the zinc core area, the battery action rapidly accelerates the corrosion process. Even after all the zinc is gone, the copper will continue to corrode untill all that remains is chloride salts of copper, disolved away into the ocean. There is no halo expected in this case because the coins are surrounded by moving water that is regularly replaced with every tide.
http://h1.ripway.com/Forum_Weasel/FO...lt_pennies.jpg
These coins have been in the sand for less than 3 months. There is considerable corrosion, with the corroded metals changed to ions which combine to form salts in the wet surroundings. If the water was not replenished daily, we could expect a sizable weight of metal to become concentrated as ions in the near vicinity of the coins. These ions would convert to salts or remain as ions suspended in the damp soil.
A simple way to test and find out if there is heavily ionized soil in a "halo" around a buried target is to find a target that you suspect has a halo (buried coin with good percent copper or tin). Then dig up the target carefully, so the target and neighboring soil for 6 inches around is not disturbed. When the target plug is removed, put it in a plastic flower pot like a potted plant, with spare loose soil from the same hole to fill the area around the plug. Set the pot on clean ground that has no other buried targets nearby to iunterfere. Then you can perform the following tests:

1) Use a conventional metal detecetor to measure the signal strength and detection range from all angles and record the measurements. Next, pinpoint the exact location of the target inside the plug and carefully probe into the plug to where the coin is and remove it with long nose pliers, without disturbing the plug any more than necessary. Close the hole after removing the coin and check the plug again with the metal detector. You might find some evidence of a signal from a "residual halo" of ionized metal salts. But maybe not.

2) Try putting the coin back in the same location in the plug. See if you get the same readings as before.

3) Dig a second plug the same size as the first at a hole neighboring where you found the coin, and put the coin in the new "clean" plug, then see what reading s the detector shows. Be sure to dig the new "clean plug" the same as you dug the plug with the coin, and put it in an identical plastic flower pot. USe the same long-nose pliers to insert the coin into the plug.

4) Repeat the whole experiment, with cleaning the surface of the coin before returning it to the plug.

Final note: You can create a coin with a halo by taking a copper coin and burying it in a container of soil to which you add just enough ocean water to keep it damp. Put a cover on the container and let it sit for a few weeks. I have an up-comming "mayonnaise jar test" for coin halos which will begin in a few weeks, involving lots of mayonnaise jars and coins. I exect it will take several months for any halo to develop, if it does at all. If you have any test suggestions, let me know in the next few weeks.

The halo theory is a myth. Gold is inert, silver is dang near inert and it takes hundreds of years for copper coins to start down any path of deterioration in normal soil*.



“Disappearing targets” are typically novice detectorists that do not know how to adjust the metal detector properly, and/or misinterpret a false signal.



Hope this helps, Jim

*normal soil – dirt

No. it's not true.

the halo existence has practically demonstrated. what has been proven practically is more reliable and higher than theoretic analysis’s.
I myself have found a jar full of silver powder(very ancient) by my PI MD at the 5 feet depth. the halo was at least 8 × 8 feet around the target whereas the target(jar) size was about 1.5 ×1 × 0.5 feet.

Hi Jim,

What you posted didn't really help. You stated that "Gold is inert, silver is dang near inert", with no evidence or testing to support your statement. Are you aware that if gold was inert, there would be no such thing as gold telluride or a number of chlorides of gold and hydrated chlorides in nature? Don't silver dishes tarnish in the air? These are not inert metals. They are considered noble metals which are less likely to corrode than others, but both silver and gold will form ions and combine with other elements if the surrounding environment is favorable.

But I am open to the idea that the "halo effect" is a myth if I can see some credible demonstration that it is in fact a myth. I am also open to the idea that the "halo effect" exists if I can see a demonstration to show that it does.

So far all I heard is a lot of hearsay, with NO evidence to support the "halo effect" exists or doesn't. How about some real proof? I am planning a series of "mayonnaise jar tests with different composition soils to see if any halo effect develops over a period of time. I really want to know the answer. I don't think the answer can be determined by blindly believing your favorite group of voices claiming that they have the answer, with no proof to support their claims.

My mayonnaise jar experiments are not designed to be definitive scientific proof, but a quick, cheap indicator to see if further testing is warranted. I invite you to post your input on methods to conduct these tests that I plan to start in a few weeks. My current plan is to bury US pennies and US dimes in the center of mayonnaise jars packed with different soil samples. I plan to survey these samples with a VLF detector and a PI detector from all angles and create a 3 dimensional chart showing signal strength at different points in time. There will be other tests performed at the end of a 3-month period which will examine the soil after the coin is removed, including chemical testing for free ions and metal salts.

I hope you do not take offense at my disagreeing with the lack of foundation for your statements, but I am trying to bring some credibility to the hearsay we are constantly exposed to.

I doubt it...

This might happen in unusual circumstances, with elevated temperature... but would not occur with gold buried in average soil.

I will certainly agree with you on that...

I doubt that copper chloride is detectable by a metal detector.

- Carl

I suggest filling 3 jars with wet beach sand straight from the surf. Near the top of one jar, place a zinc penny that has several deep surface scratches to expose the zinc. Near the surface of a second jar, place a copper penny. Leave the 3rd jar with no coin. Turn them upside down so the pennys are now at the bottom. Let them sit for a month or two. When it's time to test, place a fresh penny in the 3rd jar to compare with.

- Carl

This has been discussed before, I think on Eric Foster's PI forum. As I recall, it's been demonstrated that iron can corrode and create a larger effective target, but copper and silver do not. However, wet salt sand can increase detection depths for all metals, possibly through it's conduction of eddy currents which boost the target's own eddy response. This is a guess.

I agree though, it's time for some definitive experiments....

- Carl

JP,



If you are not aware that gold is inert, I will stand-down from trying to hold an educated discussion.



Good day, Jim

Short
 

:)
Hi to all good people !
Just short note.
Day before yesterday,yestarday and today i visited some locations and found a
handfull of lead bullets from 1780.-1815., a few arrows and one part of gun.
About lead bullets....they are really "extended" targets in the ground.I was easilly founded them in 20-25cm depth.On the fresh air depth of detection decreases to 10-15 cm...
Whay is that so....? I can not explain yet..
Regards!

J_Player ion circuit comment
 

I was reviewing the various posts on this thread and several of the posts by Esteban and others have claimed that they have found long buried gold with an ion type detector. IVCONIC's circuit most closely resembles the one that Esteban provided. These had chargers of the antenna with a negative or positive charge and the charging circuit used an oscillator. Esteban in a later reply said in essence that the oscillatory charger was necessary to discharge the antenna from excessive charge.

J_Player proved a simple circuit that did not provide this oscillatory antenna charger nor was there a mode in the circuit to change the polarity of the antenna charge.

If anyone is going to test these theories I suggest we at least follow Esteban's suggestions since he claims an operational capability with the oscillatory charger version which he appears to be using. At least then we will have a test base to compare similar circuits.

Goldfinder

There seems to be some question whether the oscillatory ripple on Ivconic's detector is able to help detect ions. According to Ivconic, In other words, Ivconic, using his oscillatory charging circuit found "nothing" when looking for ion fields near gold and silver. After ruling out ions, he concludes that he doesn't know what causes buried items to give a stronger signal with detector equipment. It is for this reason I dispensed with the extra circuitry in a simplified diagram. However, If the AC component is crucial in detecting the elusive "ion fields", then it would be good to get some information about what frequency and voltage oscillator is necessary for charging the detector. A schematic of the Mineoro devices in question would be helpful.

My opinion is similar to Ivconic's. I doubt there exist any measurable "ion fields" in the air near buried gold targets. My feeling is that the kind of signals that will be eventually discovered are probably electromagnetic dynamic fields, generally recognized as radio waves. I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the very low frequency range.

J Player you are right,ULF and especially one Schumann frequency, 7.83 z, it's in the range of alpha frequency and this it would be a connection between dowser and long range detection. I have almost finished my ULF receiver with a E_Field antenna and VCF tuning...

Static vs Oscillatory field on outside of antenna
 

Great answer J_Player - I was just trying to use the info from Esteban as he is obviously a confirmed Mineoro user and seems to have made some ion detectors himself. I can "feel" a field around gold but I am wired differently than most due to several near death experiences when young and NDE's definitely have lifelong effects.

From my own research it doesn't look like there are EM or ES or ionic fields around buried gold, but there is something there.

I am building a version of your circuit with a seperate antenna charger so I can experiment with the variables.

Has anyone looked at the gold artifacts claimed to have been found w/ the Mineoro? I did and it is quite impressive. So is it a hyped con (BS!) or the real thing?
Goldfinder

Hi goldfinder,
I consider all the gold shown on manufacturers sites to be hype. They are in the business to sell equipment, and they know that posting photos of treasures can cause a lot of otherwise intelligent people to disengage the thought process and let the "gold fever" process take over. Many detector sales organizations use this form of advertizing, whether for LRL or conventional detectors. Maybe some of the treasures were found with the products being advertized, maybe not -- I don't really care. As far as I'm concerned, these photos are just advertizing gimmicks. I have never seen a credible demonstration of how well a detector works from any magazine or manufacturer website. The only believable demonstrations I have seen are those from individuals who use detectors. For example, look at this forum, where detectorists post their finds daily: http://www.findmall.com/

Pick any forum of your choice for more than 20 types of detectors and see average detector users showing daily photos of what they found with their detectors. Funny thing, I don't see any photos of daily finds with Mineoro or other LRL detectors here. Maybe there are other sites that show large amounts of daily discoveries with LRLs similar to what we see here, but I guess I just haven't found them.

Another interesting story along these lines -- I recently posted asking what is the best detector for California beach use. I got exceent response from top detectorists telling me the types of detectors that are expected to work best based on well-known principles of metal detecting. I also got a lot of responsess from local California folks telling me what works best for them in the field. I got NO response from any LRL users.

One of the local beach hunters invited me to go hunting with him for a day, using one of his $1200 detectors, whereby I found the 2 corroded coins that you see in the photo above. But any attempt to ask for a demonstration of a LRL is invariably answered with some excuse for why a demonstration cannot be done. Would you spend money for a machine that the seller refuses to demonstrate finding treasure in the field for you?

You can bet they're real.
I've seen some of their findings when I was at the factory. Lots of gold and silver objects.

Sorry to say that but americans are notorious for advertising gimmicks as you say... We brazilians are not. I know Damasio and the people at Mineoro. The last thing they would do is an advertising gimmick.

Nobody questions whether real gold objects exist at a factory or in photos at a website. The question is whether a LRL is able to find treasures for someone who buys the detector. If so, then let's see a demonstration of a LRL find gold in front of us to watch like other metal detectors do.

So far all we ever heard is a lot of talk about how much treasure the Mineoro machines can find -- NO demonstration of the machine being used to find gold. I am buying detecting equipment right now for the summer season. Anybody wants to show me a Mineoro detector find some of the gold near where I live in Southern California, then I will put Mineoro on the list of hot treasure machines. So far I have had NO replies to any of my previous offers.

If there is nobody in the entire world who is willing to put on a live demonstration of the Mineoro LRLs finding gold, then there is no way in the world I will waste my money on this scam. A collection of artifacts in the Mineoro factory does not prove anything to me about what these machines can do. It only proves that treasures were put on display in a factory. Bring the machine to my beach and the gold mines where I live and show me how it finds gold. I got the cash ready for purchasing equipment, but I am not so stupid to be suckered into a scam for a machine that nobody on earth will give a live demonstration of because they know it doesn't work.

The money talks, the BS walks.

JPlayer,

I understand your concern. In fact, I would be doing and asking the same thing if I were you. We all know how american people praise money to the point of creating the 'time is money' sentence...

If you go to the Mineoro's site and open the list of findings with the names of the detectorists, you can email them and adress your questions to the users themselves.
Funny thing is that I did exactly that when I was about to buy the PDC 210 that I own. The only people I got no reply at all was from the americans listed there.
Would it be because they don't want to 'raise their heads in public'?
Americans have a different culture and different attitude sometimes...
Besides, I have never seen anyone of them discussing Mineoro detectors in forums.
My guess, honestly, is that people who own those detectors are too busy in the field and wish to remain anonimous.

I for myself took a 3 week break from the site I want to recover, because I am an audio engineer and record producer and am finishing a CD right now. Also I am waiting to put my hands on the FG 78 this week luckily to get back there.

My other advice for you would be: Go direct to the source and schedule a trip to Brazil and to Mineoro factory to watch a demonstration. It's a beautiful place by the sea with lots of good food...
Damasio told me he has plans soon to fly to US to do this personally. But as he suffers from diabethes I am not sure he will make it tough.

Third advice would be to wait my own report.
Regards.

I found some Americans talking about the Miuneoro LRL detectors in other forums. Here is what they said:
Read the actual forum posts at these links (you will find some of the funniest photos you have ever seen at this first link): http://www.treasurenet.com/f/index.p...278a29ec7f2792
http://www.arizonagoldprospectors.co...=68&hl=mineoro

Maybe the Americans do not have the same culture as in Brazil. Maybe the reason they don't answer you is because they are too kind, and they don't want to spoil your good feeling for Mineoro.

Of course, I am still not convinced the Mineoro can't work. Show me some photos of the treasure you find with the FG 78 after you return. Please post them so we can see. Take some pictures of the area where you hunt in Brazil too, and some pictures of the landscape that shows you recovering the treasure from the ground. I look forward to the time when I can to return to Brazil. It is truly a beautiful country. But I don't think I will be going soon.

Regards

When I said detectorists talking about the Mineoro detectors, I meant the ones WHO ARE LISTED IN MINEORO'S SITE WITH THEIR FINDINGS. Those, I've never seen in any forum. As they did find gold as you can see/read, why would they be willing to talk about it in forums?
If you were one of those guys I bet you would remain shut and 'disappear' as soon as possible, despite your statement you would do the opposite.
The link you posted shows about a bunch of people who don't own and ain't got the slightest idea about the technical background regarding the Mineoros. And the few left who got the PDC 205 apparently don't know how to use it. I'm sorry.

Remember, those early models only worked with well more than 50% of ionic field intensity and even so, many treasure were found. I already told the story of my friend Celi who with a 205 found 32 1816 gold coins. His picture is on the site.

When you are used to the detector, KNOWS how to use it and start to perceive some let's say 'tips' from it, you enhance dramatically your potential. You can have two people with a PDC 210 on the beach. One being a seasoned 210 user and the other a novice. You can bet the seasoned one will find more gold and faster than the novice detectorist. Also he wil be able to find targets where the novice will miss. This relates to how to set the controls accordingly.

In fact this is an interesting world. There's no single thing, fact , etc. that's common sense. Not one single!
Have you ever noticed that? Taking this discussion to the standard metal detectors which is apparently a proved technology, when you go to forums you even can see people bashing each other and never agree which detector brand seems to be the better and even coment this particular brand don't work!

There are people even today who don't believe men got to the moon. It was a hoax!

Hello Hung from Greece
 

Hi Hung
I am mineorogreece ,a mineoro dealer for Greece.I would like to ask you a few things if you allow me.Can you please send me your email?
My email is: liantis@mineorogreece.gr
Thanks a lot
Jim

Americans talk abouit the gold they find in forums more than any other people in the world. I can show you more than 5 major treasure forums with mostly Americans showing pictures of the gold they find. Here is one: http://www.thetreasuredepot.com/cgi-...nfig.pl?#69619
American is not afraid to show when they find gold. The time when Americans do not post picture of treasure is when they DON'T FIND treasure. This makes me think the Americans who pay money for Mineoro machine never find any treasure. This is the reason why they don't post picture of gold.

You continue to post talk about how good Mineoro can find treasure, but I see no picture of treasure you found reecently with Mineoro machine. You say it takes a person who knows the machine to find the treasure? There are people finding lost jewelry on American beaches worth many thousands of dollars. Some rings with diamonds as well as lost coins. Any weekend you will see many people on the East coast beaches bringing home hundreds of coins and jewelry, but NEVER do we see people with Mineoro machine. If Mineoro detector can find lost gold and silver, then why mobody using Mineoro to get gold and diamonds like other people at the beach? Why is NOBODDY in the entire world willing to show a live demonstration of Mineoro detector working at beach same as all other detectors? Why do we see only other detectors finding coins and jewelry, NEVER Mineoro?

Is it possible that Mineoro is a big hoax and fake machine only good for taking money away from people who buy Mineoro?

A couple of years ago, I tried emailing every person listed on the Mineoro "testimonials" web page, at least those who included an email address. Every single email bounced back because the addresses were dead. Didn't inspire much confidence. Anyone know how to contact Don Dereck or John Drebel?

- Carl

Hi everybody and Carl.Those e-mails were valid before.
e.g. I had communication with 2 0f them; one the man claimed finding big golden statue in Israel with "yusif barak" name as I remember answered my
e-mail 3 months later from sent time with bad english penmanship. his answer was nearly this; "excuse me for delayed answer because I am a military officer and most of the times, out of house. Yes, I found the statue with mineoro and am satisfied of it. the mineoro people are nice..." and was afraid of replying other questions so that detecting is illegal there.

the other one was Hank Carey who answered my e-mail after 1 month.
(I have a paper printed of our communication.)
this is his answer;" Its' ok for you to write, but I don't use computer much. my children do. the maximum depth I found a box containing jewelry was at 12 meters deep and I picked it from 30 meters distance."

the other man was Donald Dreck. In a part of his answers;
"I have found some precious objects and plenty of trash and junk irons. it necessarily doesn't detect only gold."

these communications were in 2002.
now their e-mails are invalid like as my e-mail at that time (mic_milit@hotmail.com)
But still they are undersuspicious for me. I have to survey carefully.
I afraid of one thing; maybe mineoro devices really work and we deprive ourselves from it due to a causeless suspec.

Alright. Michael answered it for me. He did exactly what I did at the time I was going to buy the PDC 210. Everybody satisfied now?

It's not Mineoro's fault if the detectorists change their emails without notice. In fact there are several of them who don't give permission to public release theirs.

But no drama forum members. You have me to trust upon the impressions of the newcoming FG78. You may turn your enquiries to me as I promise to be around and helpful and also to not change my email without notice...

Just to make it clear. Every Mineoro detector finds gold. The only thing makes the FG different from models prior to 2006 is that not only it will find long time buried gold as the others but its power of detection is more advanced and now it finds fresh gold. eg. the gold ring you are using right now. Provided the weather conditions permit it. The DC2006 is also an excelent machine as I was told. And now both detectors allow night search and reducing huge fields to pinpoint big objects.
Cheers.

Hi hung,
It is hard for me to believe the old emails from people who do not answer for more than a month, especially when the people long ago are no longer here to ask questions. But it is easy to believe you, because you are here right now. We don't even need your email because you can answer in the forum.

I am anxious to believe that the Mineoro works like you say. Please post some photos of treasure you have found since January 1, 2006 with your PDC 210. I will also wait to see the treasures you find with the FG78. Because the FG78 will find new buried gold, you can use it at the beach like other detectorists who find thousands of dollars worth of lost jewelry. But for now, could you please post some photos of the treasure you found in 2006 with your PDC 210?

Regards