'bomb detector'

nakky · #1 01-23-2010, 10:59 PM

Tests reveal 'bomb detector' cannot work

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/8476373.stm

Grt Nakky

nakky · #2 01-23-2010, 11:13 PM

The director of a company which sold a bomb-detecting device to 20 countries, including Iraq, has been arrested.
ATSC's Jim McCormick, 53, was detained on Friday on suspicion of fraud by misrepresentation, Avon and Somerset police said. He has since been bailed.
It comes after a BBC investigation alleged the ADE-651 did not work.
Earlier, the British government announced a ban on the export of the device to Iraq and Afghanistan, where British forces are serving.
Anti-theft tag
Mr McCormick has said the device, sold from offices in Sparkford, Somerset, used special electronic cards slotted into it to detect explosives.
But a BBC Newsnight investigation reported that a computer laboratory said the card it examined contained only a tag used by shops to prevent theft.
There are concerns the detectors have failed to stop bomb attacks which have killed hundreds of people.

The device consists of a swivelling aerial mounted to a hinge on a hand-grip. It does not operate by battery, instead promotional material says it is powered only by the user's static electricity.
The ADE-651 has been sold to a range of Middle Eastern countries and as far afield as Bangkok.
The Iraqi government has spent US$85m (£52m) on the hand-held detectors, now used at most checkpoints in Baghdad.
It is understood Iraq paid about US$40,000 for each device. No Western government uses them.
The BBC has learned the Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has ordered an investigation into the bomb detectors, expected to report shortly.
The government ban, brought in by Business Secretary Lord Mandelson, starts next week.

Grt Nakky

ivconic · #3 01-23-2010, 11:44 PM

Porsche Cayenne on one side and dead people on another....
Horrible!
....
It is tough for me now to find one old Robert's post from the past.
In one of his acrimony debates with LRL beleivers Robert wrote one large post explaining huge menace, risk and danger from charlatanic nature of LRL movement which outgrow in last 20 years.
So few people here realized for real the very important message Robert tried to send in public through this forum.
....
This case, case of bogus bomb detector, is just proof of what Robert tried to tell us here.
By some strange paradox, Robert is now in Iraq, working for one important organisation, on recovery of some communication systems that has been destroyed there during last USA campaign (version i heard).

Bottom line;
Charlatans are DANGEROUS! It all starts pretty simply and naive, like cases we have here on this forum (RS part).
But it is very dangerous in essence. That's why we must keep on "fighting" here against that ugly charlatanic "movement", ideas and pseudo science.
.....
It is sad that this happened, many people died because of that....yet it is perfect example which justify all what has been said against charlatanism in science so far, especially here on Geotech forums. Geotech forums has nothing to be ashamed of. I am proud to be on right side!

ivconic · #4 01-24-2010, 12:27 AM

This also can relate to:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16245

But you have to be patient and read all posts there...

Carl-NC · #5 01-24-2010, 05:45 AM

I've long understand the danger of LRLs. Here in the US, LRL drug detectors were sold to schools and law enforcement. Right now, we have Mexico using them at border crossings:

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/17378517
(See 1:20 minute mark)

DKL has, for years, been selling LRL rescue locators where lives are on the line. Now we have LRL bomb detectors trying to stop suicide bombers.

Hopefully this latest round of LRL insanity will bring more attention to the LRL scams and, especially, the scammers.

Infamy · #6 01-24-2010, 07:11 AM

What about prosecutions for companies such as OKM, those in the treasure hunting market?

ivconic · #7 01-24-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infamy

What about prosecutions for companies such as OKM, those in the treasure hunting market?

Good question! Although OKM is not best example. Mineoro would be better example.

Qiaozhi · #8 01-24-2010, 08:59 AM

Here's some more information ->
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6997859.ece
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...n-1876388.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01...detector_bust/

The inventor is quoted as saying:
“We have been dealing with doubters for ten years. One of the problems we have is that the machine does look a little primitive. We are working on a new model that has flashing lights.”

No comment:
However the device has some defenders in Iraq. Major General Jihad al-Jabiri, the head of the Interior Ministry's directorate for combat explosives, said: "Whether it's magic or scientific, what I care about is detecting bombs. I don't care what they say. I know more about bombs than the Americans do. In fact, I know more about bombs than anyone in the world."

ivconic · #9 01-24-2010, 09:25 AM

"... don't care what they say. I know more about bombs than the Americans do. In fact, I know more about bombs than anyone in the world...."

He should "care"!!!
Maybe he knows more about bombs...but he don't know nothing about detectors...that was the problem!

kt315 · #10 01-24-2010, 03:06 PM

Saddam Hussein was more adequate knowledgeable man. this modern Iraqi government seems all idiotics and blindly believes western tales. probably the Iraqi civilization intellectually has died

Carl-NC · #11 01-24-2010, 05:10 PM

The problem is getting someone to file a lawsuit. After you've spent $5000 for a bogus LRL, are you going to spend another $5000 to hire a lawyer?

grungymike · #12 01-24-2010, 08:01 PM

Reading this thread reminds me of an incident 35 years ago. A bunch of Bell Huey Cobras went down in 'nam because of falsified heat treatment records that resulted in weak rotor mainshafts. Somebody went to prison for that one.

Anytime procurement is made regarding components or systems for racing, aerospace, deep sea, military application, medical, or any environment where system failure could result in loss of life, utmost attention must be given to ONGOING quality assurance considerations.

That the Iraqi government spent that much on what appears to be a system that would have failed even a basic initial performance evaluation, suggests that their procurement system needs some refining re. quality control protocols.

As for the gentleman running the company that sold this deadly crap, I like the way the Chinese government deals with dishonest businesspeople- they hang 'em...

Bernie, are you listening???

gm

Qiaozhi · #13 01-24-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grungymike

That the Iraqi government spent that much on what appears to be a system that would have failed even a basic initial performance evaluation, suggests that their procurement system needs some refining re. quality control protocols.

In this case it probably has more to do with corruption than with any quality control protocol.

Muntari · #14 01-25-2010, 05:51 AM

After nearly 10 years of work on my MPI demining detector project and having poured many $k of my own hard earned into the project after seeing first hand the devestation UXO and APM can and do afflict on communities, I think anyone who can think of such insane scams without a thought to the dire consequences, man ..... p....s me off. Very sick, very greedy and very heartless. Suicide bombings are bad enough without adding to the problem....

Hope those involved get what they deserve.

Cheers

Muntari

Rov · #15 01-25-2010, 01:14 PM

Hi Muntari,hows your project going?Feel sure any if any outcomes will come from OZ.from deep developers like you.as we know ML started this way,an contibute globaly in the biggest way!Cheers! Rov.

Esteban · #16 01-25-2010, 02:05 PM

Modern explosive detector can sniff a part of TNT in 200,000,000 part of air. The technique involved used xtal. and a organic sample glued in it. Some reptilian cells is the sample. Scientific discovered that certain animal cells react in presence of TNT. When the reaction between the small quantity of TNT in air and the sample is produced, the mass of xtal. suffers microchanges and oscillator suffers umbalancing.

ivconic · #17 01-25-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esteban

Modern explosive detector can sniff a part of TNT in 200,000,000 part of air. The technique involved used xtal. and a organic sample glued in it. Some reptilian cells is the sample. Scientific discovered that certain animal cells react in presence of TNT. When the reaction between the small quantity of TNT in air and the sample is produced, the mass of xtal. suffers microchanges and oscillator suffers umbalancing.

Cool, but let's presume bomb is packed in several plastic layers and than hidden somewhere in the car...possibly covered with some usuall things.
So there are no TNT particles in air at all..
At crosses (usually controled by police) there are much people, cars, dust... heat...all other possible "particles" in air except TNT particles..
What than? Booooom!
Only possible way to locate DIY bomb is to search manually...even than is tough!

Esteban · #18 01-25-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivconic

Cool, but let's presume bomb is packed in several plastic layers and than hidden somewhere in the car...possibly covered with some usuall things.
So there are no TNT particles in air at all..
At crosses (usually controled by police) there are much people, cars, dust... heat...all other possible "particles" in air except TNT particles..
What than? Booooom!
Only possible way to locate DIY bomb is to search manually...even than is tough!

EVER particles scape from packages... This was demonstrated with drugs sniffing dogs of a special breed. The drug was covered and put into a can inmersed in water too, but the dog sniff it, because ever some particles scape.

Rov · #19 01-25-2010, 02:25 PM

Reptilian Cells are becomming more prevelent!A change is taking place, estaban! you know this .Most still do not?...watching.

Carl-NC · #20 01-25-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esteban

Modern explosive detector can sniff a part of TNT in 200,000,000 part of air. The technique involved used xtal. and a organic sample glued in it. Some reptilian cells is the sample. Scientific discovered that certain animal cells react in presence of TNT. When the reaction between the small quantity of TNT in air and the sample is produced, the mass of xtal. suffers microchanges and oscillator suffers umbalancing.

Yes, particle sniffers are possible. Dogs are a good example. But these devices are just ordinary dowsing rods.

3 more bombs went off in Baghdad today.

Rov · #21 01-25-2010, 03:16 PM

Most till relate to road side bombs tho! Carl? check carefully!

Rov · #22 01-25-2010, 03:32 PM

2 relate to AV,armour vehicle,an roadside bomb.A well known an developed Tactic Taliban Group!on the cheap with dv.results.! Who funded an trained early days?? usa anti ussr etc. 1980s +.yes we all Know!All Old school Politicin...

Rov · #23 01-25-2010, 03:54 PM

Deployment of any anti/bomb is still very primitive an inefect.an slow.Talk to your local vets. on the requirements!they expect to save lives!an what they want.Dont sperculate? Please be an end to Wars/mines an the Tech assoc. with it!Abandoned warfare devestates generations ahead!

goldfinder · #24 01-25-2010, 03:58 PM

Terrorists are the basic problem. The western world needs to get serious about the threat instead of pecking at the problem and slowly shutting down our freedoms.

The governments need to issue a simple proclamation. "the next terrorist caught will be interroragated, country of origin and location in the country of orgin of the terrorist will be ascertain and that origin will bewiped off the face of the earth. AND pig fat will cover all the bombs that do the clean up."

End of problem!

Read of Black Jack Pershing solution to terrorist in Philippines in WW I and you will know why this would work. It would only have to be executed once to show we mean business.

kt315 · #25 01-25-2010, 06:28 PM

if Iraq was superior in military equpment and did invasion of USA... who then would be 'the terrorists'? you had got some hi tech advantage (Area-51 - S4 Dream Land, Dulce etc bases, some with alien-ET's presence. good matter, eah? huge un-control Black Budget $$$ on any development) and it gives you a right to attack first. it gives also you a right to call who is terrorist who is not. now you fell yourself absoliutely strong and safety.
the attack (occupation?) on Iraq is one step of your strategic huge plan to round China in ring of your military bases. second is Afganistan. third is Iran. oops.. seems... I forgot Yugoslavia?