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#2
01-22-2012, 02:17 PM
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You can find instructions also for making the rods here: http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/page...lrl1/index.dat This is the same kind that Dell Winders sells as Omnitron, and many others make copies. When you finish the circuit you can connect the signal out (+) and (-) to the two brass rods that you push into the ground. Turn R5 to make adjustment of how much voltage you send to the brass rods. Turn S2 to switch to different frequency. S1 is to turn off power. Best wishes,  J_P 
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#3
01-22-2012, 04:02 PM
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I know this much about this circuit. I want to know how to find gold and silver, this circuit helps? What reaction occurs When the probe is connected to the earth? 8038 will produce a sine wave with a frequency 5 kHz and 8.7 kHz. I believe you instead of the Ic 8038 using a sine wave producing circuit 386, and instead of a transistor amplifier used for current and more ok?
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#4
01-22-2012, 08:18 PM
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There are many MFD designs which will put out a frequency. Some designs use a digital oscillator like a 555 or simple digital gates set to produce square waves. The preferred method is to use a frequency generator IC that can produce a sine wave. The 8038 is obsolete, and there are several others that replaced it. You can also make a transistor amplifier that can produce good sine waves or sloppy sine waves depending on how complicated you want to make it. Most MFD users think that low power is good, and high power will not work very well for locating metal. But a few say they like more power. You could use an audio amplifier connected to the output if you want more power. But you will probably need an amplifier that uses a higher voltage than most audio amplifiers if you want to pass more current through the ground. Keep in mind most MFD users think high current is not necessary. They prefer the 5 volt or 9 volt low power designs that pass small current. The frequency will not be the exact amount you want. You will need to make adjustments to the capacitor values at C1 and C2 to until you have the exact frequency you want. If you are using a function generator IC to make the frequency, and you are using polycarbonate film capacitors, then the frequency will be very stable, and will not change much when the temperature changes. how to find gold and silver, this circuit helps? What reaction occurs When the probe is connected to the earth? Here is what the person who posted that circuit says: How to use the MFD: At this point you should be ready to try out the MFD. Insert the two probes into the ground about 2-3 feet apart. Using banana wires connect the probes to the MFD transmitter. Turn on the transmitter and grab the L-rods. Walk a circle (about 10-12 feet out) around the probes until the L-rods cross - you have located a potential signal line. Mark this point. Imagine a line connecting the marked spot and the middle of the probe area. Move farther away (say, 30 feet) along this line and, using the L-rods, try to locate the signal line. Continue moving away from the probes as long as you are able to detect the signal line. Make sure you mark all of your signal hits. MFD Techniques: At some point as you move farther away from the probes you will cease detecting the signal line. If you detect a signal line out to a certain distance from the probes but the signal seems to stop, then where it stops should be the location of the target. Before you dig, you can verify this by moving the probes 90 degrees around the target point and triangulating. The target will be at the location where the signal lines cross. MFD Triangulation: There are two potential pitfalls with MFDs and both are due to the incredible sensitivity. An MFD has the ability to pick up target signals from as much as 10 miles away, though 1-3 miles is more typical. This means that it can take quite some time and effort to trace out the signal line. Once you have the target pinpointed you may have to face another problem: depth. The MFD can detect targets as deep as 100-200 feet, so locating the target is only half the battle. If a metal detector does not verify the existance of a metal target at the identified location then you should bring in excavation equipment. If no obvious target is found when you reach 200 feet, then the target was most likely subatomic gold particles - you cannot see it and most chemical analyses will not detect it either, but the MFD will. Be certain to read all of his instructions including the end of what he says for using it and making detection. He says you should be ready to bring tractors and backhoes to dig a big enough hole to find the buried treasure, because you may have a hard time to find it even if you have metal detectors. Also read what he says at the end of his project for building the rods: At this point I hope you have built and tested some of the described LRLs. They are fascinating devices, not in the sense that they can locate remote buried treasure - which they cannot - but in the effect they can have on the psychology of the user. According to the designer of this circuit, MFD generators cannot locate treasure. But if you want to believe it can locate treasure, then I am sure you will find people who will tell you what you want to hear. Best wishes, J_P
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#5
01-22-2012, 09:14 PM
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Thank you for your useful information. I suggest you do the work for voltage output, 5 to 9 volts?A sine wave oscillator and amplifier with low power for the common good? Using a sine wave oscillator with two outputs and the ground What is it? I completely did not understand some parts: How to use the MFD:.............. MFD Techniques: ............. MFD Triangulation:......................... It is possible for you to show me parts of the graphics?Painting? The best moment for you
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#6
01-22-2012, 09:30 PM
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You can adjust the voltage at R5 from zero volts to nearly 18 volts. Best wishes, J_P
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#7
01-23-2012, 04:59 AM
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I completely did not understand some parts: How to use the MFD:.............. MFD Techniques: ............. MFD Triangulation:......................... It is possible for you to show me parts of the graphics?Painting? The best moment for you
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#8
01-23-2012, 01:26 PM
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Even though I am telling you that no MFD generator will locate treasure for you, I know you will not believe me, and you will want to find someone who tells you it will find treasure. So I will print below what the instructions in the project say to give instructions for finding treasure The text for using the MFD project says you should turn on the power then connect the wires from the MFD box (+) and (-) to the two brass rods that you push in the ground 30-100cm apart. Then hold the two L rods in your hands and walk in a circle around the two brass rods in the ground. (radius of your circle should be 3-4 meters). Watch for when the two rods move to cross together. When you see the rods move together, you have found a signal line. If you find more than one place on your circle where the rods cross, then make a mark on the ground where it is so you can come back and check later. Next you can pick one signal line and walk away from the two brass rods to follow it and see where it will go. You must find where the end of the signal line is. So you follow it until it ends. When you reach a location where the signal line stops, then this is where the treasure is. Stop at this point and dig for your treasure. If you are not sure you have the exact correct treasure location, then you can use triangulation to check to see if it is the correct location. To make a triangulation check, you can move the MFD and the two brass rods to a now place to put them in the ground. Then follow the signal line again using your L- rods to see where the signal line ends. You should see it ends the same place as the earlier location. Then you can repeat the check by moving the MFD to many locations. From each location you should find the signal line ends in the same treasure location where you can dig a hole to find your treasure. As long as you know you will not find treasure, then you will not mind to dig holes to see if it works or not. See below for the graphics that show the parts of the MFD generator. Best wishes, J_P
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#9
01-23-2012, 04:47 PM
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tank you very much dear j-p for information
It is incomprehensible to me after finding the cross point. What should be done after the signal line? And the triangular points. If it is possible to specify a graphic for me?Painting? best wish for you
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#10
01-25-2012, 05:23 AM
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Best wishes, J_P
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#11
01-25-2012, 07:22 AM
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Please, help me, help me, with that one MFD. PS: Hey are you sure that counterclockwise walking can lead to such a huge nugget?
__________________
Global capital is ruining your life? You have right to self-defence!
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#12
01-25-2012, 07:57 AM
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In Ecuador, maybe you cannot use MFD to find nuggets. Best wishes, J_P
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#13
01-25-2012, 08:14 AM
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Best wishes, J_P
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#15
01-25-2012, 01:01 PM
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Thank ou sooo muchy jp
Sorry but forgot who rally i am?
Last wrotey in other broken lanuage wiff other name Sincs accident have may name on this forum like tank you j-p I know this much about this circuit. I want to know how to find gold and silver, this circuit helps? What reaction occurs When the probe is connected to the earth? 8038 will produce a sine wave with a frequency 5 kHz and 8.7 kHz. I believe you instead of the Ic 8038 using a sine wave producing circuit 386, and instead of a transistor amplifier used for current and more ok? Oh Carl You have lost it 
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#16
01-25-2012, 05:49 PM
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Hi J_Player
Thanks for such good graph explanation on how MFD works. Later i will look forward to build a good MFD. Do you have any ideas or do you know if i can build it from a signal genarator? What voltage must a signal generator needs to work has MFD? Ebay shows a lot of signals generators, but some of these are not stable. Any help will be appreciated. Finally, looking from your expirence, do you know if MFD really works, cause i had read in the past multiple expirencies, but this confuse me and i think is good to know from some people that had tried this devices. Best regards Nelson Quote:
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#17
01-25-2012, 07:39 PM
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Hi dear J-P.
Appreciable efforts to draw these illustrations. thank you, but in one image you have mentioned this statement: "Electronic instruments cannot the MFD signal from more than 10 Cm distance from the brass probes in the ground." I should tell that I seriously object to this part of your statements; it's not right.  I have one of these MFDs made by Notsi(Bulgarian) I don't know you remember or not. At that time(6-7 years ago) I borrowed one portable frequency meter from my e.e. friend to check signal output and distance of signal traveling. I remember well it could show the exact frequency set on transmitter for 2 meters beyond MFD probes, even when I put frequency-meter probes in a very thick ceramic vase inserted into soil it could easily penetrate to thick ceramic. My e.e friend said: " this is an ordinary Fr-meter, I'm sure if use a sensitive Fr-meter you can detect sent signal so much more than this". Best Regards.
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#18
01-25-2012, 10:38 PM
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It is good to hear that your friend measured the signal from your MFD signal generator at some distance. I am very interested to know the details. If you look at my diagram, you can see that I am talking about the distance which the signal can be detected in the ground. The last time I made measurements, I took precautions to insure that I was not measuring any airborne signals. I set up the equipment to measure only the underground signal that was being sent from the probes that were pushed into the ground. I used high impedance shielded probes to make my measurements in order to detect the tiniest signals, while blocking out any VLF/ULF broadcast that could be coming through the air from the wires of the signal generator. I also made sure my instruments were grounded to an earth ground, and I took precautions to shield any airborne electronic noise from the instruments that were measuring the signal. The sensor I used was another metal probe pushed into the ground at various distances from the MFD probes. The shielding included the probe, which were shielded to the point where it was beneath the surface of the ground before the unshielded part of the probe was exposed to the soil. My intention was to see how far the signal traveled from the probes in a manner that this frequency could be detected at a distance. The idea was to determine if any amount of power coming from the MFD probes could reach a distant buried metal object to cause it to make a detectable emission from the metal. The signal generator I used was sending out a 5v signal, not as much voltage as the maximum that you can get from circuit above. In most cases I was able to detect the signal from the probes a few cm distance, but I found a limit that I could detect the signal at about 5cm distance. There were a few occasions where I could detect it as far as 10cm, but the signal was lost in a lot of other larger electronic noises, as I was measuring signals that were small fractions of 0.1uv. When I checked the buried metal object 10 feet distance, I found none of the signal generator signal at all... not even when the probe was in contact with the buried metal. I can also tell you that when I removed the sensor probe from the ground, I could pick up a lot of electronic noise from the air which changed when the probe was moved around to different locations in the air. If your e.e. friend made this same kind of measurement, I would be very interested to know what kind of probes he used on his meter, and what kind of grounding and shielding he did to make this detection. Actually I would like to know how to reproduce his test setup so I can see how he measured the signal at this distance. My guess is he was measuring the signal that broadcast through the air, either from the MFD generator connecting wires, or RF from the probes coming out of the vase and into the air. We know that when you push ground probes in the ground, a small amount of power is sent to the soil, and another part of the power is sent from the connecting wires into the air as a VLF or ULF broadcast. And we know that frequencies these VLF/ULF frequencies can be broadcast into the air with little power so they can be easily detected at distances. It is a common practice to detect a signal generator frequency across a workshop using a small loop to broadcast the signal and a second small loop to pick up the signal from an instrument that can measure small voltages. But these coils are not always necessary, because the test leads and the wires coming from the signal generator can act as broadcasting antennas. In practice, a VLF/ULF signal from a frequency generator can be detected at various distances depending on the exact way the wires are plugged into the generator and the receiver. This is the reason I took precautions to eliminate as much of the signal that might be broadcast through the air, so I could observe only the signal that was traveling through the ground from the probes. In general, any kind of unshielded wire plugged into a signal generator can broadcast some RF into the air that can be detected at various distances depending on how long the wire and how it is positioned. But the more efficient method to send and detect these VLF/ULF signal generator signals from the air is to connect a coil to the two wires on the signal generator and a second coil to the receiving instrument. If you have any information to show how to set up the equipment to detect an MFD signal at long distances, it would be good for you to post this information so we all can know how it was done, Best wishes, J_P Detecting a signal
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#19
01-26-2012, 01:49 AM
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Huge "nugget"
Here is a graphic that shows what to do when you use MFD.
Best wishes, J_P[================ J_P That is the funniest graphic I've seen in a long time but accurate at to technique. That "nugget" if it was real would probably weigh a 1000 pounds or more and that guy (you ?) would have a hernia bigger than the nugget. Thanks for laugh, Goldfinder
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#20
01-26-2012, 01:57 AM
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Have someone built MFD for u
Quote:
Goldfinder.
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#21
01-26-2012, 02:58 AM
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I do not believe MFD can help to find treasure. The explanations I posted above are illustrations to show ma330 what MFD users say is the correct way to use MFD. These are not methods that I recommend. I have never seen any MFD work. My experience in using MFD is I could locate nothing. Of course, other MFD users will say I do not know the correct method to locate when using MFD. These other MFD users say MFD works. But these same people will not demonstrate an MFD to work in front of skeptical witnesses to show how they can locate buried metal items. Maybe they work, but I have never seen any real evidence that this is true. And I see that every MFD user has declined to demonstrate that they work for finding buried metals. The MFD users only tell stories of how far they detect things, but do not want to show their detection of unknown buried metals in public. Isn't this much different than people who use metal detectors, who will easily demonstrate how their metal detectors will locate metal exactly as the manufacturer says they will? I do not think MFD can locate any buried things. But I think it is a good idea for anyone who wants to know how well they work to build one and try it out to see for themselves how well it works or does not work. You can build the circuit above and see how well this works. This circuit is better than most of the commercial designs, because it has an output control that allows you to adjust to more or less power levels than most of the commecial MFDs. The circuit above can be adjusted to any voltage you want, from 0v to nearly 18v, while most of the commercial MFD generators have no control for the output voltage. This means you can experiment with different voltages that expensive commercial units cannot achieve to see what works best for your conditions. The design above has one limitation... the two timing capacitors C1 and C2 are fixed, so they will produce only two output frequencies, which may not be the exact frequencies you want. You can make a substitution for a variable capacitor to adjust the frequency if you want to use different frequencies than you get from these capacitors. Or you can make the switch to select more than only two capacitors, and you will have many frequencies available -- one for each capacitor. (This is the method that the Dell Omnitron MFD uses). Or if you think the exact frequency is important, you could switch to a completely different design that allows easy adjustment to set an exact frequency. These are usually digital frequency generators that use a crystal to keep the frequency stable. But remember, Tim Williams (LRL Man) http://lrlman.com/ says the frequency does not need to be exact. If you build a frequency generator and try it out, you may find the same as I found... that it detects nothing. Or you may find big treasure... who knows? Why not try it out and see for yourself? Best wishes, J_P
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#22
01-26-2012, 03:16 AM
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That nugget is real... It is a photo of a nugget that was found in California. However, I magnified it to fit the picture. You are exactly correct... that size nugget in the graphic weighs about 1000 pounds, which is a little too heavy for that guy to hold by himself. It reminds me of a story from the 1800s in California where a stage coach company got tired of being robbed every time they transported gold from Sacramento prospectors to the mint in San Francisco. So they melted the gold into a ball the size of a bowling ball. Then the next time they were held up, the bandits couldn't pick up the gold ball to load on their horses. So they rode off hollering obscenities at the stage coach driver. Incidentally, I noticed a strange phenomenon since I posted that illustration... Whenever you show gold in connection with locating equipment, everybody seems to get very interested regardless of whether there is any evidence that the gold is somehow connected with the equipment. Maybe this is a principle used in LRL advertising.  Best wishes, J_P
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#23
01-26-2012, 03:25 AM
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I don't think I could do it... I would become nauseated shortly after I began soldering the parts on the board. Best wishes, J_P
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#25
01-26-2012, 05:04 PM
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my e.e friend had given it to me. I had it for few months. it was a small box with a small display for digits and had 2 type sensor; one type was for receiving air waves that got and antenna, in this option it couldn't get any signal from soil or with connection to ground. Another sensor type had 2 output for 2 wires with alligator head which connected to wave source( MFD probes). in this option it couldn't get any signal from air as I had tested it frequently; both wires should be connected to somewhere. In the test which I mentioned above I personally made it with wires( I call it ground mode). It was essential for me to know if these kind of waves ( radio) generated by a MFD could ever travel through ground or not. so I plugged each alligator into an iron rod and planted in ground and as mentioned could get signal up to 2 meters beyond not more. Unfortunately I don't know more about that device technical details. just know my friend called it " portable frequency meter".
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need mfd
Linear Mode
