THE lrl test idea

[Funfinder]

Well my friends, seems you still have no proofs how and if those mineoros etc. work at all.

This leads to cynical and sarcastic comments and frustration, because alot treasure hunters would like to have some kind of lrl, but of course only if proofen working!

The key for testing if a lrl works is checking out under what circumstances it usually should work and recreate them.

Point one is "long time ago buried" - even if it's just 5 or 10 years.

So what must be done is to accelerate that whole process.

The very first important thing is making clear if a good isolated (glass, pvc) object (gold coin etc.) also is able to produce that "long time ago effect".

If not it is already proofen that there must be some kind of chemical interaction within the ground. metallic ions or rust penetrate the wet soil around the object.

And this interaction is possible to speed up by using acids or special chemical fluids that attack the metal-object much stronger and faster than rainwater in combination with ground-minerals!

Treat some piece of copper with hydrochloric acid and it will start to rust and build layers of verdigris immediatly.

Additionally use a very heavy lifting magnet near the lrl and see if it still detects the target. If not, different earth-magnetical situations could be the reason why it only works in some special countries.

But the most important thing is to find a way to create a long time ago buried object in a very short time!

Bury some big glass container or bottle, put some metal in it, soil and next some acid or whatever tries to dissolve the find much faster as under "natural circumstances".


Everything else is absolutly useless. Usually just a simple fresh metal object is needed to make shure a MD works or not! Our poor LRLs need old metal! So we give them old metal! Not natural one, but "high speed aged". And first "all kind of metal finding" lrls should be tested and not "limited to gold only" ones.


Of course this would only work with the help of already LRL owners but it would be for the benefit of us all and "if proven working" those who are built such devices would get much better business and their image of "possible scammers" would end.

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

Well my friends, seems you still have no proofs how and if those mineoros etc. work at all.

This leads to cynical and sarcastic comments and frustration, because alot treasure hunters would like to have some kind of lrl, but of course only if proofen working!

The key for testing if a lrl works is checking out under what circumstances it usually should work and recreate them.

Point one is "long time ago buried" - even if it's just 5 or 10 years.

So what must be done is to accelerate that whole process.

The very first important thing is making clear if a good isolated (glass, pvc) object (gold coin etc.) also is able to produce that "long time ago effect".

If not it is already proofen that there must be some kind of chemical interaction within the ground. metallic ions or rust penetrate the wet soil around the object.

And this interaction is possible to speed up by using acids or special chemical fluids that attack the metal-object much stronger and faster than rainwater in combination with ground-minerals!

Treat some piece of copper with hydrochloric acid and it will start to rust and build layers of verdigris immediatly.

Additionally use a very heavy lifting magnet near the lrl and see if it still detects the target. If not, different earth-magnetical situations could be the reason why it only works in some special countries.

But the most important thing is to find a way to create a long time ago buried object in a very short time!

Bury some big glass container or bottle, put some metal in it, soil and next some acid or whatever tries to dissolve the find much faster as under "natural circumstances".


Everything else is absolutly useless. Usually just a simple fresh metal object is needed to make shure a MD works or not! Our poor LRLs need old metal! So we give them old metal! Not natural one, but "high speed aged". And first "all kind of metal finding" lrls should be tested and not "limited to gold only" ones.


Of course this would only work with the help of already LRL owners but it would be for the benefit of us all and "if proven working" those who are built such devices would get much better business and their image of "possible scammers" would end.

Hi Funfinder

I explain to you one simple test for LRL´s :

Large silver coin buried 30cm depth with SALT.

Large copper coin buried 30cm depth with SALT.

this targets was buried two years ago,and results with any MINEORO detectors are not good,i mean no signals,but i get 2m distance with the PD for the large silver and no signal for the large copper,unless if i put the coil over the target.

It seems the salt acelerate the process,note that i buried other large silver coin without the salt in the same time,and i get only 50cm .

[Funfinder]

Fantastic, Morgan, you had that great idea already before me. *cool*

Of course different kind of mineralic salts, potash or alkaline solutions also should work depending if it's the fitting metal.

And I guess it's already clear that metal objects that are buried in glass bottles, pots made of china or even tight stone graves without water penetration can not produce that long time ago buried metal effect even if those were buried extremly long time ago.

Because if they could every usual medieval gold coin would be detectable, too.


The question now what kind of conclusions we can draw of your experiments so far:

- silver get's stronger affected by salt than copper OR your pd is more sensitive to silver

- a strong mineralic (in our case: salty) and wet underground like alot beaches have is much better for creating long time ago buried lrl objects as almost dry and nonmineralic (this also could strenghten the credibility of that 2010 minero beach find video).


If you can recreate that 2m test result every time you want this is already an extremly good beginning! You can try if it works from all kind of directions and weather. If it works with strong permanent magnet nearby or large metal shielding beyond. At day and night and if some strong am or fm transmitter or radio runs nearby.

Next some easy recreatable and really all the time working circuit should be drawn and construction planning done if it is really the best idea having a handheld lrl!

I have my doubts. Handheld yes for long ranges, but surface coil could be better for detecting very small and deep targets. Perhaps both in one by adjustable fibre-glass stick or something that holds the coil.


Another big question:
If the electronical principles of your working lrl are derivated from mineoro why the latter doesn't work - perhaps because it's no gold or not long enough buried.

But if your working lrl is derivated from mineoro and working we can't say those devices are pure "nonsens". Perhaps they was developed just the "wrong way" - pushed far and further just for brazilian country only while completly ignoring worldwide compatibility!


However - Morgan, it's fine that those very good test beginnings are already made.
This really is a working starting base for further knowledge, improvements and tests.



additional info from wikipedia:
mineralic salts soluted in water creates electrolyte which provides much butter conditions to electrical and electromagnetical energy-flow as pure water or dry soil!

[Götz von Berlichingen]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

...
additional info from wikipedia:
mineralic salts soluted in water creates electrolyte which provides much butter conditions to electrical and electromagnetical energy-flow as pure water or dry soil!

electromagnetical ? where on Wikipedia ? Link please.

[Funfinder]

it's german, didnt found the same info at english wiki
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineralsalze

If something conducts electricity it automatically conducts the EM field, too.

of course inducing strong VLF waves directly into the ground is much more
effective than with "air coil antennas" as long as we don't use high voltage.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

If something conducts electricity it automatically conducts the EM field, too.

Strange wikiscience.

EM field can not be conduced, but can induced (if changing) Wirbellstroeme in conductive Stoffe.

[Funfinder]

wm6, you are also into amateur radio, right.
does the wire of a coax cable transmits the electromagnetic field aka radio waves -
even 20 or 50m if amplified - through a "tunnel"?

So every conducting material transmits electricity with its em-field (the moving electron spin creates magnetic field lines around) - electrolytic ground, too. And instead of an antenna made out of metal you also could use an antenna made out of powerful electrolyte!

waves = amplitude changing electro-magnetic fields caused by directional changing electricity flow.

The issue we are facing is:

waves can penetrate almost to non cunductive space better because there is no resistance (thin air, vacuum, plastic, wood etc.) btw. the term waves is principally wrong and only fits to audio "moleculare resonance" vibrations. there is no "matrix" in vaccuum where the EM waves could ride so they have to be "radiating energy particles" on its on.

but with metal detection we try to induce em-fields into ground and metal so some interaction can be measured. Therefore of course it makes a difference if the ground is electrolytic or not - as Morgans tests did show.

The question is:
if LRLs recognise ground capacity values created by metal in combination with electrolyte what kind is it exactly?

Is shuch a "ground-complex" some kind of shielding of the earth magnetism field that becames detectable from far distance or what else? Does it distort the high voltage eletrostatic vertical field?

And if high humidity in air (and probable in ground, too) blocks this LRL effect why it is so?


The easiest way to find this out would be to know exactly what the LRL electronic does detect and what it doesnt and if there is a problem with it exclusion tests should be found so we can discover if the lrl is capable to detect this or that.

[WM6]

Thanks for explanation, Funfinder, but to much "scientiffically" for me.


Yes I was in amateur radio active for years, now a little retired AR and changed to field of MD.

73

[Funfinder]

Scientific or not, we need working results otherwise the discussions here will be without end.
And your experience in amateur radio hopefully is useful with LRL "science", too.

We got a new factor described latley:

If coin is removed PD still detects it for approx. 2 minutes.

This could indicate some kind of vanishing battery effect. Like with one copper and one iron wire put into a fresh lemon and the lemon juice acts as electrolyte. In our new LRL case it's remarkable that the energyflow doesn't stop immediatly.

A sensitive voltmeter with 1meter cable - one connected to still soil contacted coin and second 1m far buried into ground could check if there's some electricity flow going on.


However it must have something to do with chemical interaction otherwise every fresh gold would be detectable because in reality it's already billions of years old.

[Funfinder]

Constructing and testing a LRL would be pretty simple:

The device must be able to detect a 0.1gram gold nugget from 3 feet or one meter distance!

This makes shure you really will find a single coin from 5meters or a cache from 50m because the energyfield weakens square-expotential the more distance the treasure has.

If your LRL doesn't find that nugget throw it away!

OK, maybe there is a linear energy field! The laserpointers point is almost the same bright and small if in 1m or 10m. In this case the treasure must have an extrem energy-radiation in all directions like the sun or the treasure is buried exactly in the middle of a very short wave radiation source and the LRL so it's possible to detect the metals EM field blocking.

Another idea would be energizing the area by waves so the treasure starts to submit secondary signals like a glass on a table makes noises if there's a vibrating laundry-machine near. If gold really has such thing like "resonance frequency" first it needs some input for being able to starting resonating at all. And the weak earths magnetic field for shure is not strong enough for this task, especially with its heavy fluctuation.

You can detect or see a star from billions of lightyears because it radiates EM energy. But usually treasures don't submit radio-massages like: "I'm under this little tree over there, get me outta here!" Treasures are virtually dead if you don't waken them up by a powerful energy-source like the MD sends into the ground. There is some natural electrostatic and magnetical plus artifical radio waves power available that for shure interacts with the buried metal but on micro, nano or even pico level and any "passive receiver" has to be very near or extremly sensitive to recognise those special interaction patterns.

The earthmagnetical and electrostatic fields have a huge fluctuation and the BIGGEST problem of our actually "seems sometimes and somehow to work" LRLs is:

They don't have any automatical gain control for this conditions!

Perhaps those work if EM-field or electrostatic-ground sky difference is extremly high so they get a good "contrast-factor" but the slightest rain-shower is enough to end this.

Think about all of this and please stop turning in circles and circles and circles for ever and a day. As example this "Mineoro Issue" exists already since 2006 and NOTHING has changed so far, nothing! It's like switching on the TV, seeing that it won't work, waiting for 1 week, next try, and every week for the next 5 years again and again! And why? Because some owners of this TV claim that once in the year there's some sort of strange picture showing treasures there but no repair service has any clue if this is real!

Amusing wonderworld of LRLs but we wanna have something that proofen works and no time to waste another 5 years!

[WM6]

Very good based position, Funfinder!

[Funfinder]

Thanx for this one, WM6.

Ya know, this whole LRL story is comparable with parents who tell their kids that they will get a very nice present at christmas but all what those finally get is a broken toy!

The sadness, frustration and dissatisfaction will be high.

So those "very dear" LRL mam an dads out there first should prove what they're talking about and after this make their kids really happy!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

...Amusing wonderworld of LRLs but we wanna have something that proofen works and no time to waste another 5 years!

I agree 100%.

A simple solution can be found by taking your LRL experiments to the Middle East, where Jinns are known to harass treasure hunters.
If you bury your sample in the Middle East, then surely a Jinn will come to guard it and will keep you from finding the sample you buried.
While this represents a treasure that you do not recover, it is proof none-the-less, as the treasure will have disappeared from a location where it was known to exist.

Middle East experiments will also serve to demonstrate the principle of Jinns being detectable by a Mineoro FG-80.
If the FG-80 beeps, you will know a Jinn has been detected, and he has moved your treasure sample away from where you buried it.
See here: http://www.paradetect.com/index.php?...k=1&Itemid=204






...Amusing wonderworld of LRLs but we wanna have something that proofen works and no time to waste another 5 years!
...Amusing wonderworld of LRLs but we wanna have something spoofen and time to laugh another 5 years!


Best wishes,
J_P

[Ernie]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

Well my friends, seems you still have no proofs how and if those mineoros etc. work at all.

This leads to cynical and sarcastic comments and frustration, because alot treasure hunters would like to have some kind of lrl, but of course only if proofen working!

The key for testing if a lrl works is checking out under what circumstances it usually should work and recreate them.

Point one is "long time ago buried" - even if it's just 5 or 10 years.

So what must be done is to accelerate that whole process.

The very first important thing is making clear if a good isolated (glass, pvc) object (gold coin etc.) also is able to produce that "long time ago effect".

If not it is already proofen that there must be some kind of chemical interaction within the ground. metallic ions or rust penetrate the wet soil around the object.

And this interaction is possible to speed up by using acids or special chemical fluids that attack the metal-object much stronger and faster than rainwater in combination with ground-minerals!

Treat some piece of copper with hydrochloric acid and it will start to rust and build layers of verdigris immediatly.

Additionally use a very heavy lifting magnet near the lrl and see if it still detects the target. If not, different earth-magnetical situations could be the reason why it only works in some special countries.

But the most important thing is to find a way to create a long time ago buried object in a very short time!

Bury some big glass container or bottle, put some metal in it, soil and next some acid or whatever tries to dissolve the find much faster as under "natural circumstances".


Everything else is absolutly useless. Usually just a simple fresh metal object is needed to make shure a MD works or not! Our poor LRLs need old metal! So we give them old metal! Not natural one, but "high speed aged". And first "all kind of metal finding" lrls should be tested and not "limited to gold only" ones.


Of course this would only work with the help of already LRL owners but it would be for the benefit of us all and "if proven working" those who are built such devices would get much better business and their image of "possible scammers" would end.

You're taking this forum totally off track by spending too much time on a simple detection system.