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#1
11-04-2012, 06:48 AM
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Real signal generator for dowsing
Hello everyone.
I present here a prototype generator designed for a client few months ago. The project is correct 100% Anyone who wants to build this, follow the instructions to obtain a generator that actually carries the signal into the earth. Schematics for generators or complet module DDS generators (you can find ebay) anyone can easily find today. Schematic for amplifiers output signal, there are many. Some schematics for amplifiers have been published here in the forum. I believe that, anyone who wants to experiment with dowsing with a generator sends real signal within the earth, it's worth making this effort. Continued .... 
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#2
11-04-2012, 09:22 AM
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Just my skeptical view. 
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#3
11-04-2012, 09:46 AM
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I never said my opinions on dowsing, never I mentioned whether it is effective or not use dowsing for detecting treasure. The presentation is for those involved in dowsing with a generator that truly sends a signal to earth . Please wait to see the sequel and you figured we refer exclusively to the way that can signal generator inside the earth. Nothing more best regards
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#4
11-04-2012, 10:23 AM
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#5
11-04-2012, 12:47 PM
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Thank you Qiaozhi
I think you understand me . As you know my English is very poor and I don't like use of translation, as you know my opinion about dowsing. ...continue As we know, the usual method of electronic dowsing survey, done by using a frequency generator, digital or simply that the dowsing connects the earth with copper or stainless steel needles. Usually when placed close to the pins together on Earth, utilizing a buffer - transformer between the generator and needles. All dowsers believes is indeed important (in terms of dowsing) in output accuracy and stability of the generator, because dowsing "believes" that it just depends on the stability of the effectiveness of investigations. I will not mention if the force is investigating the dowsing method, as I don't comment on specific frequencies dowsers believe that it is necessary to research a specific target (eg gold). I refer only to the wrong opinion, all dowsers, who believe that the mark of a generator can be spread on the land with spikes and even a sizable distance. In fact if you put a generator with spikes on earth the true length of the signal propagation depends mainly 1. Since the distance between the two needles of the generator 2. From the "texture" and moisture of the land surrounding the needles Detailed presentation and use of formulas to understand the above two parameters are not necessary here. Just I telling you that the maximum distance signal propagation in the earth needles is usually... (distance pins) * 2.9 * (special soil conditions) * (Power output RMS) The specific conditions of soil has values of 0.7 (soil without water) - 2.4 (soil with plenty of water) on average. So if we have two connector neeedles on earth with 1m spacing and dry ground, 1WRMS amplifier, the signal can not be spread more than 1 * 2.9 * 0.7 * 1 = 2.03 meters. He even along the spreading is to exclude any axis linking the two needles to another location and have another reduction. Therefore any dowser who believes that the generator helps to stimulate the target at long distances is a misunderstanding. In practice Excite «ideomotor phenomenon" nothing more. But if you really still believe that the signal travels from the needles through the earth, make a simple experiment. Whoever has digital generator to output 560-1200KIZ and connect the pins to ground. With a simple AM radio can detect the signal generator in X distance. If you cover with a metal box together needles & generator, we see that the signal is lost. In fact, the radio signal received directly from the generator and not through the earth. This is the reason that shielded a canister missed the mark, simply because there was no signal detected from earth aapeftheias Conclusion. The presentation of this system is to have a realistic method for sending signals inside the earth. I have not opinion on the effectiveness of dowsing research. I have respect only for how they really need to connect a generator to send an X mark on a Y distance away and think this is enough help for those dealing with dowsing experiments or even investigating dowser search continues
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#6
11-04-2012, 01:25 PM
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This is not for dowsing but for swivel type LRLs employing rods for response.
Also tough it works to some extent you don't need to stick it in the ground as the actual transmitting component used in dowsing is not hertzian.
__________________
"Should exist injustice and untruths towards working LRLs, I'll show up to debunker the big mouths"
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#7
11-04-2012, 02:08 PM
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Hi Andreas
Very nice device you are showing and i agree with Qiazori and you that this is only for people that likes to experiment about dowsing. Best regards Nelson Quote:
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#8
11-04-2012, 08:53 PM
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Generator work with flat-top aerial used in the VLF, LF, MF and shortwave bands. This antenna invented before 1920. The flat-top antenna functions as a monopole antenna with capacitive load.
The original flat-top antenna consists of a horizontal wires a vertical wire is connected to the center of the horizontal wire and hangs down close to the ground. Sometimes use many parallel horizontal wires, connected together at the center wire. Here we can use this type antenna, with small mods for send signal in ground. What we are newest?. Replacing wires with a stable horizontal metal plate, building a certain way, so we have real capacitive load. The antenna performance is close to 5%, depends on the accuracy of the construction. Usually amateur with handmade can produce perfomance 3-4% Not bad, if you understand, that simply needles the earth has performance near 0,5%. In this case you have performance up 400% Materials for antenna Your generator two metal plates diametre 20-25cm. IMPORTANCE only two plates have exactly the same dimensions. coaxial cable connectors A small plate diameter 1/10 of the large plate Several personal work See the schematic construction. I think is simple enough for everyone I wish you success in all experiments in dowsing best regards
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#9
11-04-2012, 11:59 PM
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I congratulate you for showing complete details for construction of your antenna to use for MFD signals. Your signal generator looks very well-packaged as well as your antenna construction. What you say for measuring signal distance is the same as what I measured. I could not find the signal to travel more than 30 cm when I put two needles in the ground for a 5v signal generator sending audio frequency. michael found better distance of two meters when he used his 100 watt 24 volt audio amplifier (TDA7294). But after 2 meters michael lost his signal. It is exactly as you say. The signal is lost after a short distance. Now I see your prototype is using only a single needle to send the signal. Radio experimenters know the flat top antenna is used to send RF broadcast. But most modern flat top antennas use a different configuration with long stretched parallel wires. This flat top design that you made is based on earlier concepts which do not broadcast Hertzian waves, but they certainly send waves into the ground. When I read the theories behind this antenna, I imagine the signal would travel very far. But I can find very little information for how far the signal is sent through the ground. Have you taken measurements to find how much distance you can detect the signal from your antenna needle? Best Wishes,  J_P
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#10
11-05-2012, 04:51 AM
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Thank you J_P
As I write, I became a single building prototypes for client. Measurements were made on soft ground without water. Ground Needle put ground with water and salt With 8 W RMS amplifier at frequency 10 kHz signal "lost" in 40 meters distance Frequency of 1 kHz 30 meters distance Frequency 15- 20 kHz maximum 10 meters distance Frequency >20KHZ maximum 4meters distance It's logical . Generator use with a output stage a amplifier TDAseries This is audio amplifier and can not signal gain > 20 kHz With freq >20KHZ work only standard (auto - select) output stage signal 200mv AC from generator My opinion... with multiplication loops first plate and second plate work as reflector can go longer distance I believe with output stage FETs power push-pull is better. Interest here. My customer after experiments believe the generator has range 500 meters distance!!!!!! I am not dowser... i have not opinions for extreme range Best regards
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#11
11-05-2012, 05:54 AM
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""Generator work with flat-top aerial used in the VLF, LF, MF and shortwave bands."""
Hi Andres Why you didn't apply power directly to ground??? and By Antenna ? Also you need big antenna for radiation 20 kHz .
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#12
11-05-2012, 05:55 AM
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The distances which you measured seem very interesting. We do not find these same distances when we use a simple pair of ground probes as we see from typical MFD apparatus. This makes me think this is a very interesting antenna for MFD users and dowsers to make experiments with. Of course, you are correct. TDA series is for audio amplifier, and will not send good signals more than 20 KHz. But we see most MFD users are interested to send audio frequencies, so TDA can work for these experimenters. To send higher frequencies, I agree, you must have an amplifier with faster output stages to give a clean signal. Better to use RF amplifiers. Now, I have one final question. When you made your distance measurements, what voltage did your DDS generator send to the antenna? We know it was only 20 mv at 20 KHz, but what voltage was the antenna at 1 KHz and at 10 KHz? Also, your what instrument did you use to detect the ground signal from a distance? Best Wishes, J_P
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#13
11-05-2012, 06:02 AM
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""With 8 W RMS amplifier at frequency 10 kHz signal "lost" in 40 meters
distance"" Tip this subject , power is 8W when apply to load for example 4 ohm , While the power apply to ground more less than 8W , because in depended to Ground resistance . Best regards.
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#14
11-05-2012, 06:06 AM
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""With 8 W RMS amplifier at frequency 10 kHz signal "lost" in 40 meters
distance Frequency of 1 kHz 30 meters distance Frequency 15- 20 kHz maximum 10 meters distance Frequency >20KHZ maximum 4meters distance"" Andreas, I had some experiment seem you at past . What s you measured is correct . my measurement seem you 
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#15
11-05-2012, 06:07 AM
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This antenna is not designed to send RF into the air. The original design of this antenna was intended to send to send 95% power to the ground, and 5% loss to the air. The flat top metal plates are used to add capacitance which allows a transfer of power to the ground. From what Andreas says, his modification is working better than simple ground probes. Best wishes, J_P
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#16
11-05-2012, 06:36 AM
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Hi J_P
""This antenna is not designed to send RF into the air."" Yes , surly ""The original design of this antenna was intended to send to send 95% power to the ground, and 5% loss to the air."" Power connected to circular diameter 25 cm on top!!!! My opinion is this subject " 20 khz cannot radiated by circular with 25 cm diameter On top ". Best regards .
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#17
11-05-2012, 06:45 AM
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""The original design of this antenna was intended to send to send 95% power to the ground, and 5% loss to the air""
Please see picture , I seeing ground connect to rod and coaxial shield , power to Circular antenna with 25 cm diameter . May be I seeing false .
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#18
11-05-2012, 07:19 AM
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The power is connected as you say. But the power does not radiate from the plates. Only 5% of the power is intended to be lost from the plates through RF radiation. This antenna is not a typical RF dipole antenna. It operates using the “near field” effects of the oscillator and a capacitor to deliver single-line power transmission. The purpose of the flat top metal plates is to add capacitance to the circuit, which is necessary to allow a transfer of power to the ground. This design of antenna was first put into practice on a large scale by Marconi when he modified it so it could be used for RF broadcast. But the original design was intended to transmit longitudinal electric waves into the ground (not electromagnetic waves as we think of in RF broadcast). The purpose is to send power into the ground (as you might send it through a conductor for an AC power cable), not to send RF into the air. This kind of power transmission is usually tuned for a single frequency, but I am surprised to see it works on various frequencies from VLF to MF. In fact, this is the first practical example of this design I have seen used in modern electronics. This is why I think this will be an interesting project to experiment with. Since this device is designed to inject power into the ground, then the distance we can measure this power will depend on the mobile ions in the ground. This explains why Andreas tells us about the water and salt content of the ground when he talks about distance which the signal can travel. It seems Andreas is following the same science for his measurements as geologists use when they make their earth resistivity surveys, and induced polarization studies. Best Wishes, J_P
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#19
11-05-2012, 07:37 AM
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You are correct. If you study well my last posts ,I work with efficiency 5%. This is because the antenna (plates) are very small. regards
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#20
11-05-2012, 07:56 AM
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for J_P
Now, I have one final question. When you made your distance measurements, what voltage did your DDS generator send to the antenna? We know it was only 20 mv at 20 KHz, but what voltage was the antenna at 1 KHz and at 10 KHz? A generator can not have the capabilities we want. Grounds generator with high voltage output, will probably be better. Even better a proper antenna design can have better performance. I start designed a new antenna (in my spare time) and I'll see what can be done Also, your what instrument did you use to detect the ground signal from a distance? I have a old VLF receiver (1KHZ-100KHZ) unknow firma (maybe military) with panel a field meter and a big-big external feritte antenna. For detection signal i use antenna-feritte vertical place and measurement via field meter Best regards
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#21
11-05-2012, 08:23 AM
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""This design of antenna was first put into practice on a large scale by Marconi when he modified it so it could be used for RF broadcast.""
Yes, for this reason , this work interesting for me "" how radiated AF signals??"" From short antenna
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#22
11-05-2012, 08:26 AM
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 , crux solve for me now . thank you .
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#23
11-05-2012, 08:36 AM
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Andreas, this is my opinion base of my experiment , for more power , must be
Increased V PP( amplitude of Af signals) , connect amplifier output to Ground by two rods . rod must be near together . with this method Signals radiated as ""omni-directional ""
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#24
11-05-2012, 08:52 AM
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""The original design of this antenna was intended to send to send 95% power to the ground, and 5% loss to the air.""
thank you J_P . crux solved Other things , I am designer in RF band. i remember designed "Rf amplifier" , out put power was 15 W at 100MHZ  , 20 years ago . when I was Yong and 24 years old .But I am researcher about LRL now . 
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#25
11-05-2012, 12:11 PM
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I agree with you, I think you will find better distance if you use a higher voltage at the antenna. My thinking is an RF power amp maybe 10 watts can be used to guarantee the 10 watts is available to the antenna at all frequencies. I can also see it would be good to raise the voltage using a transformer to deliver higher voltage to the antenna and ground. When you first presented your flat top antenna, you said : "This antenna invented before 1920. The flat-top antenna functions as a monopole antenna with capacitive load. ...Anyone who wants to build this, follow the instructions to obtain a generator that actually carries the signal into the earth". This is how I recognize this design to be based on the multiple loaded flat top antenna that was used in the early Marconi broadcasting stations in 1919. This design was actually adapted from Nikola Tesla's patents for sending power to the ground. I see your modification of this antenna is even simpler than the Marconi design. But now you are talking about making new modifications for a proper antenna, so I am thinking you will modify to stop if from acting as single-wire ground transmission which Tesla designed. It sounds as if your are planning to change it to become an antenna to broadcast more than 5% of the power into the air as RF broadcast. If you do this, then I expect the ground power transmission will diminish, as more power is broadcast into the air. In the VLF and LF bands, a large amount of this RF power radiated from the antenna will still penetrate the ground after passing through the air. But if my idea is mistaken, then maybe you will be making modifications to the antenna for better power transmission to the ground. If this is what you are intending to do, then I can see some possible mods which may bring this design closer to the original design which Tesla made to allow good power transfer to the ground. In Tesla's designs, he used a resonant transformer to increase the voltage that is sent to the transformer. But if we are to use a DDS generator to produce many different frequencies for testing, then we will not be able to use a resonant transformer, because the transformer will be resonant only at one frequency. So it appears that if this scheme is used, we can only use a step-up transformer, which will probably not be resonant. Still, we can find better ground penetration with a higher voltage. I wait to see if there are modifications made by you or other readers. See below for a schematic diagram of the Marconi Flat top antenna and some links for further reading: http://www.tuks.nl/wiki/index.php/Ma...fWirelessPower http://amasci.com/tesla/tmistk.html http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-...sion-of-energy http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-...sion-of-energy http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-...ctrical-energy Note: These are not schematics for construction. They are only general diagrams to show basic concepts.
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