The point of the situation

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All

I want to remind you that at the beginning in this forum almost all of us believed not to "lrl phenomenom" but when Esteban told us that lrl was a real working instrument and that the phenomenom was real and that it could be revealed in many way, then I started experimenting, at the beginning with the PD pistol, after with BFO, E-field and B-field instrument. I must confess that I had many disappointments but the successes obtained by Morgan and Geo they stimulated me to continue. Obviously I thought the words of Morgan and Geo and in addition I was convinced that the "sky/compass" effect was the demonstration that all my instruments (I think more then 30) they detected some strange but real phenomenom. Unfortunately the sky/compass effect is more strong that lrl signal and then a not well designed lrl it cannot sense the phenomenom. We can think to sky/compass effect as a low impedance and low voltage source and the lrl signal as high impedance and high voltage source, if we measure with a low impedance instrument we lose the high impedance signal and if our instrument emits a strong signal (TX coil) than this fact also kills the lrl signal. But the question is not simple, a high impedance instrument also senses the "trees/walls" effect and as a last thing the lrl signal depends on the orientation and I think that the sky/compass effect acts as a channel. The Key is (for me) an amplifier stage in a self oscillating mode, but without signal saturation. I have realized some of this lrl and they work but I wait for tests by Geo. The problem is that the circuit is difficult to calibrate, I can't explain as it can oscillate with a stable but not saturated signal. This circuit is similar to a super regenerative receiver. In the circuit there are 4 transistors BC183C or similar with "beta" more then 500, the DC out is in the range 2-7V and when I connect the scope the DC out drops to zero, then no oscillation. The circuit is derived from a RF sniffer in FM range, but I think that the frequency in my case is much less, not depending from LC tank. This stage is the "front-end" and it is followed by a motion stage/comparator and then led and buzzer. The stage oscillates also without antenna and when we touch the antenna the signal out varies considerably. In the field the optimal adjustment is when there is no sky/compass effect.

Best Regards

[Qiaozhi]

You can also experience the sky effect with a standard Heathkit GD348 and a Micronta 4001. Both of these detectors use unshielded coils.

By the way, TOTeM is designed to eliminate the sky or compass effects, while still using an unshielded coil.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Qiaozhi
To eliminate the sky/compass effect is not enough... your ToTeM detect also a buried target? With my lrl I have found a brass bullet at 1 meter, 5 cm deep and after digging the lrl gave no signal and in my test field I detect 5 silver coins 20 cm buried at about 2 meter.
The main defect is that it's a all (no ferrous) metal and that it gives
many signals not confirmed by MD.

Best Regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

The main defect is that it's a all (no ferrous) metal and that it gives many signals not confirmed by MD.

In that case, how can you be certain that it's really detecting any signal from a buried target?
Did you perform the final recovery / pinpointing of the bullet with a conventional metal detector?

[aft_72005]

Hi FrancoItaly
Your LRL is regenerative method, my question if without oscillation , also
Can detect target?
Best regards.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All

Yes obviously I have performed the final recovery of the bullet with my spectra V3.
Without oscillation there is no detecting. Here I post a possible solution for motion/comparator stage to make a working lrl. I think that circuit works well as the "front-end" has a high DC out. In my lrls I have more amplification (they derived from other designes) and I must reduce the front-end gain.

Best Regards

[Sneshko]

Hi FrancoItaly!



Please post a complete shematic of your device!
Thanks in advance!
Regards!
Sneshko

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Sneshko
in this thread you have all the information for to build a working lrl, the most important thing is the "front-end" part and you need only a stylus antenna.

Best Regards

[vali]

With this circuit with an antenna and a treasure to find .

[FrancoItaly]

If you think that this circuit works well for to find treasure go in the field and good luck... but if it's just your opinion in this forum there are also too many theorists. I decided to post here my lrl to help all those who are really interested to build a lrl, for to share my experiences and to learn from the experiences of others.I don't answer to provocations or non-constructive criticism. Unfortunately in this forum only debates if lrls work or not and for this I have decided to post my experiences. I firmly believe that the lrl phenomenon is real and I have no interest in trying to convince you.

Best Regards

[vali]

good luck?? thank...

[Goldmaxx]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

If you think that this circuit works well for to find treasure go in the field and good luck... but if it's just your opinion in this forum there are also too many theorists. I decided to post here my lrl to help all those who are really interested to build a lrl, for to share my experiences and to learn from the experiences of others.I don't answer to provocations or non-constructive criticism. Unfortunately in this forum only debates if lrls work or not and for this I have decided to post my experiences. I firmly believe that the lrl phenomenon is real and I have no interest in trying to convince you.

Best Regards

Bravo FrancoItaly
finally someone who speaks the right words.
Instead of debating only whether there are a LRL phenomenon or not, or LRL works or not, he should spend his time to trying to prove it himself.
Approaches, there are here enough.
I'm not an electronics expert, but the subject interested me so much that I simply must prove it to me self if it works or not.
I do belief any case that it is possible.

I find your work really great FrancoItaly and I congratulate you on your success.
I also find it very good of you that you share your experiences.
When I'm finished with my TOTeM project, I would like try to build your LRL.

best Regards

[humhum]

Hi FrancoItaly congratulation for your LRL, how works it , with movement from left to Right or witout movement (fix), can you send Video when sens target ,
Your lrl can (did) have Classification for Gold or for Non-Ferrous ?

Regards.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

Hi All

I want to remind you that at the beginning in this forum almost all of us believed not to "lrl phenomenom" but when Esteban told us that lrl was a real working instrument and that the phenomenom was real and that it could be revealed in many way, then I started experimenting, at the beginning with the PD pistol, after with BFO, E-field and B-field instrument. I must confess that I had many disappointments but the successes obtained by Morgan and Geo they stimulated me to continue. Obviously I thought the words of Morgan and Geo and in addition I was convinced that the "sky/compass" effect was the demonstration that all my instruments (I think more then 30) they detected some strange but real phenomenom. Unfortunately the sky/compass effect is more strong that lrl signal and then a not well designed lrl it cannot sense the phenomenom. We can think to sky/compass effect as a low impedance and low voltage source and the lrl signal as high impedance and high voltage source, if we measure with a low impedance instrument we lose the high impedance signal and if our instrument emits a strong signal (TX coil) than this fact also kills the lrl signal. But the question is not simple, a high impedance instrument also senses the "trees/walls" effect and as a last thing the lrl signal depends on the orientation and I think that the sky/compass effect acts as a channel. The Key is (for me) an amplifier stage in a self oscillating mode, but without signal saturation. I have realized some of this lrl and they work but I wait for tests by Geo. The problem is that the circuit is difficult to calibrate, I can't explain as it can oscillate with a stable but not saturated signal. This circuit is similar to a super regenerative receiver. In the circuit there are 4 transistors BC183C or similar with "beta" more then 500, the DC out is in the range 2-7V and when I connect the scope the DC out drops to zero, then no oscillation. The circuit is derived from a RF sniffer in FM range, but I think that the frequency in my case is much less, not depending from LC tank. This stage is the "front-end" and it is followed by a motion stage/comparator and then led and buzzer. The stage oscillates also without antenna and when we touch the antenna the signal out varies considerably. In the field the optimal adjustment is when there is no sky/compass effect.

Best Regards

Hi Franco.
Before 3 days i replied here but i don't see my post.
Any way.... here is winter , it rains very often so i had not the ability to try your lrls.
Maybe at end of March or begining of April.

Again congratulations....

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

Hi Qiaozhi
To eliminate the sky/compass effect is not enough... your ToTeM detect also a buried target? With my lrl I have found a brass bullet at 1 meter, 5 cm deep and after digging the lrl gave no signal and in my test field I detect 5 silver coins 20 cm buried at about 2 meter.
The main defect is that it's a all (no ferrous) metal and that it gives
many signals not confirmed by MD.

Best Regards

Hi.
If the LRL has the ability of good pin point, then dig 15...20 cm and try again with MD.
Maybe the buried object is at big depth and the MD can't locate it. It is often phenomenon

Regards

Btw... the brass bullet how old it was?????

[Dedevil]

I think with these types of detection of this kind it is important to shield out electrostatic effects around the detector. Even the type of glue or silicone used can change the performance. I remember esteban used teflon, but there are other substances which we can all try and post results. Also body static from clothing, etc, can affect the detector. Maybe it would be a good idea to enclose the circuit boards in a shield to ground to reduce this.
rgds

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Geo
With my lrl I have a good pinpoint only with the brass bullet (very old I think) thats with small signal, more than 1 meter no signal. The great problem is for signals not confirmed by MD in the range of 2-5 meters and in a field with too much vegetation. I'm not sure that is important a good shield, it may be an obstacle to phenomenon. All my lrl are in plastic box and the "front-end" in open air and I use a long handle to avoid body influence.

Best Regards

[humhum]

Hi FrancoItaly , in your schema I see that have connection for one Antenna , but in your LRL Picture you use three Antennas for what, maybe LRL works with Two Tx and One Rx antenna.

Franco for more sens you make- try connection from your device Ground to your body with cable. (this info was from Big Master Esteban)


Regards.

[Sneshko]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

Hi All

I want to remind you that at the beginning in this forum almost all of us believed not to "lrl phenomenom" but when Esteban told us that lrl was a real working instrument and that the phenomenom was real and that it could be revealed in many way, then I started experimenting, at the beginning with the PD pistol, after with BFO, E-field and B-field instrument. I must confess that I had many disappointments but the successes obtained by Morgan and Geo they stimulated me to continue. Obviously I thought the words of Morgan and Geo and in addition I was convinced that the "sky/compass" effect was the demonstration that all my instruments (I think more then 30) they detected some strange but real phenomenom. Unfortunately the sky/compass effect is more strong that lrl signal and then a not well designed lrl it cannot sense the phenomenom. We can think to sky/compass effect as a low impedance and low voltage source and the lrl signal as high impedance and high voltage source, if we measure with a low impedance instrument we lose the high impedance signal and if our instrument emits a strong signal (TX coil) than this fact also kills the lrl signal. But the question is not simple, a high impedance instrument also senses the "trees/walls" effect and as a last thing the lrl signal depends on the orientation and I think that the sky/compass effect acts as a channel. The Key is (for me) an amplifier stage in a self oscillating mode, but without signal saturation. I have realized some of this lrl and they work but I wait for tests by Geo. The problem is that the circuit is difficult to calibrate, I can't explain as it can oscillate with a stable but not saturated signal. This circuit is similar to a super regenerative receiver. In the circuit there are 4 transistors BC183C or similar with "beta" more then 500, the DC out is in the range 2-7V and when I connect the scope the DC out drops to zero, then no oscillation. The circuit is derived from a RF sniffer in FM range, but I think that the frequency in my case is much less, not depending from LC tank. This stage is the "front-end" and it is followed by a motion stage/comparator and then led and buzzer. The stage oscillates also without antenna and when we touch the antenna the signal out varies considerably. In the field the optimal adjustment is when there is no sky/compass effect.
Best Regards

Hi FrancoItaly!
My previous post was not a good translator translated.! I'm sorry!
Maybe the solution is to use a good receiver for the detection of weak signals (and, at the same time), rejecting noise.
One such circuit is the schematic below:



If you are interested, I can send you the full article about this circuit?
Regards!
Sneshko

P.S.
Please administrator to delete the previous post!
Thank you!
Sneshko

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Humhum
All 3 antenna are connected together in parallel but in the last version of my lrl I have only one antenna 20 cm elongated with same good results. Maybe a connection between body and ground increases sensitivity but perhaps also for sky/compass effect, but I think that the phenomenon is mainly over the ground. For Sneshko I thank you for the schema, but only a good receiver is not sufficient to catch the phenomenon, the key is an oscillator stable, with low RF emission, without big coil and much influenced by external factors, mainly by e-field (remember the stylus antenna).
Best Regards

[Geo]

A photo from Franco's LRL.


Regards

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Geo

A photo from Franco's LRL.


Regards

good luck with this one too.

if results in Greece are not good,you can send me to test here.


regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Morgan

good luck with this one too.

if results in Greece are not good,you can send me to test here.


regards

Why not????
But i must wait at least one month because the soil moisture is very high.

Regards

[Geo]

Yesterday i tried it at field but did not work. It stop to oscillate.
I don't know why!!.
Soon i"ll look it

Regards

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Geo
Put the 2pF capacitor between collector third transistor and base of second transistor, try some values of the emitter capacitor for 3 - 6V of DC out, I have made this change and in my laboratory it works well, but I have not tested in the field .

Best Regards