Are we gonna ever see working LRL?

[ivconic]

Again same old story started on these pages! This time in Restricted part of forum. And what is even worse; this time by our "fellow" Geo!?!?
I will not repost more than just few sentences, because i think it is fair also all other members to read and see least this;
Geo claims:
"...10 meters coin detection....15 meters single coin detection...20 meters single coins detection...30 meters single coin detection !!!"

Geo stands in front of those claims. Geo is sure about those. Geo said he experienced this also.
Same old, "our" Geo !?!?!?

Ivconic to Geo:

"...C'mon! Can you hear yourself!? Can you read what have you just wrote!?
Than don't complain on my doubts!
You are telling more grease and fat stories than those hoorlaboorlas's from Mineoro!

BTW, you didn't answered me; will you post schematic or not?.."

Geo to Ivconic:

"..NO.."


Ivconic to Geo:

"..No!!?
Just what i wanted to hear from you!
Cards are now opened!
...
Than what is the purpose of your story here? Why are you telling here so many tales?
...
I was not wrong upon you Geo. Right now i see that i was very right!
Wolf in a lamb skin!
Worse possible LRL charlatan ever existed on this forum! Worse than Hung!
But also very slick!
Finally you removed your mask.
It is all clear now; your trip to Portugal.....actually was HUGE ADVERTISMENT!
You even collected some sympathy from some members (and admins) because you "were ready" to spend "3000e" on that trip, and all that in "favour" of this forum!
What a hypocrisy!

...
Nothing to talk with you any more.."

[ivconic]

It is obvious that some of use here do have long term hidden agendas.
I think it is fair to debunker those. Fair to this forum, at first place...
I don't think that i am wrong now. Because i've been following Geo's slow "evolution" from "moderate sketpic" to "hard core beleiver" in last few years..
And..to tell you the truth; i had my own doubts about Geo from the very start...i just didn't dare to say than. It was to early. Now is clear.
Geo is beleiver 100%. He is still our fellow memeber here and i still respect him. But from now on i will not be able to speak with him seriously at all.
I can only joke with him as far as good manners permits me.
That's what i wanted all of you to know, from now on.
Cheers!

[Jim]

Originally Posted by ivconic

This time in Restricted part of forum.

What is the Restricted part of forum? Is there a secret area, where only a few select members are allowed to discuss what should be on an open forum?

[Locator]

Originally Posted by ivconic

I was not wrong upon you Geo. Right now i see that i was very right!
Wolf in a lamb skin!
Worse possible LRL charlatan ever existed on this forum! Worse than Hung!
But also very slick!
Finally you removed your mask.
It is all clear now; your trip to Portugal.....actually was HUGE ADVERTISMENT!
You even collected some sympathy from some members (and admins) because you "were ready" to spend "3000e" on that trip, and all that in "favour" of this forum!
What a hypocrisy!

Hello Ivconic,

you are many years member here as i see and you look serious technician.
So,please can you explain us what accurately happened???what happened in the trip to Portugal???

Thank's in advance:

Christos

[WM6]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Geo claims:
"...10 meters coin detection....15 meters single coin detection...20 meters single coins detection...30 meters single coin detection !!!"

Some people need dream to correct reality, but reality do not tolerate dreamers.

Originally Posted by ivconic

BTW, you didn't answered me; will you post schematic or not?.."

Geo to Ivconic:

"..NO.."

I was thinking that Geotech forums was dedicated to exchange experience and schematic between detectorist in first line and not to exchange hidden marketing promotion of crime companies like mineoro.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Locator

Hello Ivconic,

you are many years member here as i see and you look serious technician.
So,please can you explain us what accurately happened???what happened in the trip to Portugal???

Thank's in advance:

Christos

Hi Christos,

what you expect from LRL believers promotional trip? To give us one more promotional video in favor of scandalous seller mineoro. This has happened.

Undetectable activity of LRL is a very bitter realization, very bitter, but not for skeptics.

[Geo]

Hehehehe.....
Ivconic the honest sceptic.....
What he wrote to Esteban about Mr Alonso....
"Not you, but maybe Alonso? And not as "magician" but maybe as human with extra developed senses? Who knows?

He believes to magic and to people with extra developed senses
It is not the device that Alonso detects the coins, but the developed senses.....
Who he want to say lies....???
He wanted the schematic so to make clones and to sell them
He made the same with a schematic from Andreas..... but he had not the head and he was unable to construct a similar one. Look what is happening because i don't like to give him the schematic.....
He took the schematic from Sesar detector and try to change the sound so to sell it as his own project.... the same with TGS.
I will write more when i come back after 5 days.
Until then, this Charlatan is free to write everything he wants

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Geo

He believes to magic and to people with extra developed senses

Why magic, Geo? People with extra developed senses (hyper sensitivity especially in kids) exist. Scientifically proved. In field of magic is not extra developed senses but out of sense perception.

http://www.autism.com/individuals/perception.htm

Originally Posted by Geo;

He took the schematic from Sesar detector and try to change the sound so to sell it as his own project.... the same with TGS.

As far I know (and read) ivconic many times clearly and explicit denied SMW and TGSL as his own project. Why you cannot accept this fact?

[Fred]

The title of this thread is : are we gonna ever see working LRL?

I don´t think so.
The only way to find working LRL´s is by believing blindly that they work .If you want any proof, schematic or video, you will never get it.
There is several users here that claim to have working LRL´s but they are still here looking for schematic and testing new designs.

[ivconic]

It is obvoius that i hurted Geo's feelings and ego; just look how he changed his behavior now!?

Yesterday i was "dear firend" and today i am "enemy"??
Isn't that worst hypocrisy?

And for what?
Because i was honest enough and showed real doubts in his lunatic claims; "...single coin detected at 15 meters..." !!!???
I will not continue to argue with Geo.
Argue can only make more damage here.
Geo simply started something that he is not able and not literate enough to continue.
His fault, not my.
Nice trip Geo and welcome back here again.
I finished talking with you on any subject.
No more talking.

[ivconic]

If anyone of you ever asked:
"Why this ivconic is so pushy and pesty? Why he simply do not leave some people alone...here?.."

I will point you on this:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...719#post105719

It all starting pretty simply and naive. First "they" build some funny and non functional gold detectors.....than...in time ..."they" can do something more dramatic! Pseudo science will always stay pseudo science. Charlatans will always be charlatans. Charlatan detectorist is dangerous the same as charlatan "doctor".
If we "skeptics" do not stand up against them, who will? We should present first line of defence here.

[Geo]

[quote = ivconic? 105721]Είναι obvoius ότι θ hurted συναισθήματα και εγώ Geo του? Μόλις δούμε πώς θα αλλάξει η συμπεριφορά του τώρα!;

I Χθες ήταν "αγαπητός τον φίλο" και εγώ σήμερα είμαι "εχθρός";;
Δεν είναι ότι χειρότερο υποκρισία;

Και για τι;
Επειδή ήμουν αρκετά ειλικρινής και έδειξε πραγματικό αμφιβολίες τρελός αξιώσεις του? "... ενιαίο νόμισμα ανιχνεύθηκε σε 15 μέτρα ..."!!!???
Δεν θα συνεχίσουν να υποστηρίζουν με Geo.
Υποστηρίζουν μόνο μπορεί να κάνει μεγαλύτερη ζημιά εδώ.
Geo άρχισε απλώς κάτι που ο ίδιος δεν είναι σε θέση και δεν εγγράμματοι αρκετά για να συνεχίσετε.
Σφάλμα του, δεν μου.
Καλό σας ταξίδι Geo και καλωσορίζουμε πίσω πάλι εδώ.
Τελείωσα μιλώντας μαζί σας για οποιοδήποτε θέμα.
Δεν μιλάμε περισσότερο.
[/ quote]

I finish my cofee and i leave.
I simple say that you have WRONG....
I write again.... the prototype detects one gold coin 30m on the air very easy, not 15m. You told me that my visit to Portugal was prepared so to advertize Alonso????, Invitation from Morgan was for all??? you was more near than me to Portugal, why you did not came???
Any way, i can't understand why you have so many problems for detectors that you don't know!!!! They don't take your bread!!!!!
I asked from you to don't dealt with me again but you continued.
Because I respect the hospitality of Carl in the site I stop here.
I apologize for the trouble!!!!

[Geo]

Originally Posted by ivconic

If anyone of you ever asked:
"Why this ivconic is so pushy and pesty? Why he simply do not leave some people alone...here?.."

I will point you on this:

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...719#post105719

It all starting pretty simply and naive. First "they" build some funny and non functional gold detectors.....than...in time ..."they" can do something more dramatic! Pseudo science will always stay pseudo science. Charlatans will always be charlatans. Charlatan detectorist is dangerous the same as charlatan "doctor".
If we "skeptics" do not stand up against them, who will? We should present first line of defence here.

For you, we must stay to Tesoro.........
Yes for coins it is OK, but for treasures there are other really machines out there!!!!!!
Wake up!!!!!

[ivconic]

Seems you missunderstood my point ?
I have nothing against you personally Geo, on contrary!
So far we considered each other as friend? Right?
What happened?
Let me tell you what happened, ok?
You came here and said that you saw device which is able to detect SINGLE COIN at 15 meters (now is 30!). You also said you made copy of it. You also said your copy is not working that good as original, actually worked 3 times and than stopped. Right Geo?
Than i posted my doubts about your claims. Than you became angry on me, because of my doubts. Than i assumed that your trip to Portugal has more extended agenda, maybe some long term hidden agenda. I ASSUMED only.
You were persistent in your claims so i asked you to give US HERE (not only me) that schematic so we others can try to make it and see what is all about.
Why i asked? Because you FIRST started with your claims and wandered why your copy is not functional like original you saw somewhere..
...
Same situation as with PD. Only difference is in fact that Morgan gave us schematic here and you NOT.
Morgan cooperated here and you NOT.
...
And now, all of the sudden i am guilty for all your troubles!?
...
You are still there!?
Have a nice trip!

P.S.
"...So far we considered each other as friend?..."
Friend or no friend, never mind how big friend is somebody to me - i will always stand up against him if he starts talking and acting stupid. ALWAYS!

[Fred]

Geo,
Actually you apparent inconsistency is suspicious.
I remember the Iconos device, that magically appeared from a secret company, and you promised tests results.
On first tests made amazing detection with it, a few have been sold then everything disappeared- including results.
Now a after few tests with the PD, - with no obvious positive results- but suddenly you got totally convinced, claiming unbelievable results, and a new amazing device appears (able to detect a coin at 30m), but which theory of operation and schematics are big secret - very similar to the iconos, that could not be opened.
Are you regularly illuminated ?

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by Fred

Geo,
Actually you apparent inconsistency is suspicious.
I remember the Iconos device, that magically appeared from a secret company, and you promised tests results.
On first tests made amazing detection with it, a few have been sold then everything disappeared- including results.
Now a after few tests with the PD, - with no obvious positive results- but suddenly you got totally convinced, claiming unbelievable results, and a new amazing device appears (able to detect a coin at 30m), but which theory of operation and schematics are big secret - very similar to the iconos, that could not be opened.
Are you regularly illuminated ?

Geo went to short trip so he can not answer right now.
Yet you have good points there and i agree with you.
....
You reminded me again on Andreas's project. I recevied schematics from Andreas on my email, in the past.
Since it was mostly based on radio principles, best man i know to ask about that was...who else - Robert.
I send schematics to him and he told me those were nonsences and also some parts of those were already faked!?
Than he posted those here and Andreas was crazy about that.
My mistake - i didn't prevented those to be posted in public.
Than...many months later (day or two ago) i pisssed up Geo with my posts and he told me:
"...A.jpg has a lot of errors!!.." refering to those schematics?

So Geo knew that it was faked and with errors?!
......
Usuall excuse from strong arguments is: "...i do not sell LRL devices.."
So what?
Not selling now...but it is possible to sell in future!
Not selling simply because there are no workable LRL's and day by day there are less people to be easilly fooled to buy nonworking crap.
So, seems everyone is hardly trying to achieve some so so results with LRL because public interest in those things is HUGE!
First one who achieve to make working LRL will make fortune! Everybody knows that. Pitty, nobody achieved nothing so far...

[ivconic]

If i had working LRL project (i beleive it is not possible) i would use it for my own prospecting needs for a while. Than a while after i would try to make it comercial and to make fortune selling those. Honest isn't it?
So why telling stories about noncomercial nature of such "fantastic" devices?
Who are we joking?
...
Since i am not able to invest and organize my own production line;
i would contact White's, Garrett, Minelab, Fisher, Cscope..etc.. and invite them to presentation of working LRL. I would offer them all the needed conditions to check device accuracy and provide them with all the neccessary details and documentations. All that done in public and official.
Than i will engage good advocates to represent me when making bussines deal with one of those, the one with best offer.
And that is all. Simple and easy way. Not much phylosophy at all.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by ivconic

If i had working LRL project (i beleive it is not possible) i would use it for my own prospecting needs for a while. Than a while after i would try to make it comercial and to make fortune selling those. Honest isn't it?

Exactly. We going to find out LRLs, when the earth runs out of gold. Until then, will be available to us only inoperative LRL and tale stories connected to such creations.

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by WM6

Exactly. We going to find out LRLs, when the earth runs out of gold. Until then, will be available to us only inoperative LRL and tale stories connected to such creations.

Metalic item to be found at long distance, must have some unique feature that makes it much different from environment and at the same time need device capable to "recognize" that item only by that unique feature. It is hard to imagine device itself! Which technology to use? Radio? How to relate radio wave with any of metalic item features? IR? The same. NMR? Yes it could be done and already was done but with limitations and it is to expensive for our matters. EM field? Done and explored but not satisfactory, with huge limitations. Something else? Maybe.
But what is with environment? It is not empty space. It is composite substance.
How to cancel environment factor in process of LR locating/detecting?
How to acuratelly detect only "needle in hay stack" ?
Tough task.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Metalic item to be found at long distance, must have some unique feature that makes it much different from environment and at the same time need device capable to "recognize" that item only by that unique feature. It is hard to imagine device itself! Which technology to use? Radio? How to relate radio wave with any of metalic item features? IR? The same. NMR? Yes it could be done and already was done but with limitations and it is to expensive for our matters. EM field? Done and explored but not satisfactory, with huge limitations. Something else? Maybe.
But what is with environment? It is not empty space. It is composite substance.
How to cancel environment factor in process of LR locating/detecting?
How to acuratelly detect only "needle in hay stack" ?
Tough task.

According to some long range locating theorists, environmental factors are necessary to support secondary effects of buried metal. One of these is the effect of a well known space charge in the lower atmosphere which causes electrons to move from the ground to molecules in the air and travel upward. Apparently these theorists expect to see a difference in some effect they claim they are measuring at a distance from the air where the metal is buried. From what they say, they don't want the environmental factor of atmospheric charge moving electrons up to be removed. If anything, they want it to be stronger.

But maybe they would want other environmental factors to be removed that add noise to some small measurements they try to read.

Best wishes,
J_P