A message from iconos-md

[iconos-md]

Greetings to all members of the forum

After reading the opinions that your members publish on this forum, about our products , we observed that there is a tendency from certain members, to
connect our detectors with the products of the company Mineoro.
For this reason we have been were forced to defend ourselves and to inform all the members of the forum, in order to make sure that there will be no
other problems or misunderstandings or impressions in the future, concerning our products and the iconos-md company to those interested in Long
range metal detectors.
And we begin by saying a few words about the operating principle of our iconos-md Long range Gold detector and also for the future products which will
be introduced to the worldwide market by our company.
In this sector we are compelled to give ONLY in general lines, for confidential reasons certain information about our revolutionary Gold sensor system
which has been implemented into our Long range metal detectors. Therefore as you may understand it is not possible for us to give out complete
information and theory of operation regarding the sensor, having been the result of many years of effort and research ,just to convince some skeptics
who also are professional or amateur electronics engineers and who love to reverse engineer everything they see.
We are forced to protect our invention by this way because if we dont the result will be the publishing of all our efforts in a worldwide scale. We believe
that research is a personal effort, and no one will give away his discoveries without a certain personal profit.
If we remove the majority of members in this forum who are purely amateur enthusiasts and hobbyists, there also exist professionals who are trying to
acquire information for commercial exploitation.
We on our part, cannot know who these people are that fall into this category, and we also have no way of knowing who the true amateurs are in the
immense woldwide web ,where everyone uses a false name, and only a limited number of them use their real name.
For these reasons we are forced to limit the information on the operating theory of our system, which is our intellectual property and we will not allow
any free exploitation of this information from anyone.
Consequently the general operating theory that we have in our site, is for our judgement, sufficient for anyone interested to acquire this detector.What
someone really wants is to have a working detector that will give him the results that he is asking for, and we on our part keep the know how
confidential and protected.
We believe that our position on this matter is sincere. It is irrelevant for us if you do not want to admit it but it must be respected.
Another matter that has resulted is that certain members of this forum deliberately disrepute us purposely through their publications. Here we want to
clarify that our first orders are due to be delivered by the end of August. How is it possible that certain persons judge and compare and they discredit a
detector that they do not have, and have never used, but also have not even seen yet? This is a negative situation for our interests, which will allow us
at any moment that we judge right to press legal charges against anyone who purposely wants to disrepute our name via the internet or any other
means.
There is an effort to connect our devices with other manufacturers like Mineoro. Whatever opinion anyone has for the Mineoro detectors does not
concern us and is his own private matter. But we are concerned when people try to connect us with Mineoro and they try to link us with them about the
method of detection and operating principles of the iconos-md Detectors. We do not know the theory of operation of the Mineoro detectors and even if
we knew, it does not allow us to take a stand, but we certainly know ours and we can say that they have many differences between them.
A fact that we can publish is that our detector uses a microwave aerial in combination with a specially manufactured revolutionary sensor for Gold and
this creates a big difference. Also some similar expressions that we use do not mean essentially same operating theory of the detectors.
The only resemblance that we have with the Mineoro detectors is that we also can detect gold from Long distances.
Lastly a company, especially a new company in this area, must be judged by it's works. Shortly we will present a special Tesla coil exclusively for PI
Detectors, which as many know is very difficult to manufacture, but it will give you the possibility to understand and see the efforts that we make in
order for everyone to have better results in metal detecting.
Remember that every honest effort is for everybody's benefit, and should be faced seriously and not with disreputive reactions or other ways.
Regards to all
The iconos Team

[Max]

Read already lot of times same words from others, for other products too.
Till now, nothing new, nothing functional.
Nothing of nothing.
We have just to wait and see.

And then who knows ?

[Rudy]

The implications are very clear. Iconos does not want their brand to be associated with Mineoro, because the Mineoro LRL doesn't seem to work. The Iconos technology is very different from Mineoro's so it doesn't work much better.

Geeze haven't these folks ever heard of filing for patent protection, instead of claiming all this secrecy?

"And we begin by saying a few words about the operating principle of our iconos-md Long range Gold detector ...."

Unfortunately nothing of substance was begun.

[Geo]

Simply, We should wait for to see the results before we begin to judge
My friend Max ok, and then who knows ..........

[J_Player]

Yes. I don't care if it works on the principle of secret voodoo. If I can use it to find treasure, then I will think it is a good tool. We cannot know until Iconos shows us what this locator can do.

Best wishes for Iconos,
J_P

[Steve in MS]

I bet if any LRL of any description would work then Governments and mineral companies would pay a lot more for a product than multitudes of uniformed people wanting to do a treasure hunt. A famous quote goes something like this "for every fool born, there is two to take him". Then another one goes like this, "if it's too good to be true then more than likely it isn't". There are not many mechanical or electronic devises that don't have some form of empirical evidences to it's capability before it is sold.

[J_Player]

Hi Iconos,

I have a question. On your web page you say:
"The ions migrate from it’s surface using the soil as transportation and they can travel long distances through the ground from the target, after many years, and at the same time an electrostatic and ionic field is formed above ground." http://www.iconos-md.eu/

My question is:
1. How many meters above the ground is this ionic field formed?
2. What elements are ionized in this field?
3. Is the electrostatic field located in the same place as the ionic field?

Thank you for the help,
J_P

[Leto]

Hi to all,
secret about this Lrl directional coils will never be revealed....
The process of analysing an existing system to identify its components and their interrelationships and create representations of the system in another form or at a higher level of abstraction will be abruptly canceled with pack of C4 explosive.
Do not leave IC-807 coils on the sun, do not open the coil cover, always handle with care.

P.S. Their IC-707 was packed with nitroglycerine, it had longer range but was very unstable - detonating when more than gramm of gold was sensed.
Up side: no need to dig a hole (automatic momentary excavation).
Down side: no-one survived to report about extraordinary power of this detector.

[Max]

Hi,
seems the last resource against reverse engineering
maybe cause all the others failed here till now!

We have just to wait and see...
then who knows !?

Miracles of science could happen!

Kind regards,
Max

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by iconos-md

Greetings to all members of the forum

After reading the opinions that your members publish on this forum, about our products , we observed that there is a tendency from certain members, to
connect our detectors with the products of the company Mineoro.
For this reason we have been were forced to defend ourselves and to inform all the members of the forum, in order to make sure that there will be no
other problems or misunderstandings or impressions in the future, concerning our products and the iconos-md company to those interested in Long
range metal detectors.
And we begin by saying a few words about the operating principle of our iconos-md Long range Gold detector and also for the future products which will
be introduced to the worldwide market by our company.
In this sector we are compelled to give ONLY in general lines, for confidential reasons certain information about our revolutionary Gold sensor system
which has been implemented into our Long range metal detectors. Therefore as you may understand it is not possible for us to give out complete
information and theory of operation regarding the sensor, having been the result of many years of effort and research ,just to convince some skeptics
who also are professional or amateur electronics engineers and who love to reverse engineer everything they see.
We are forced to protect our invention by this way because if we dont the result will be the publishing of all our efforts in a worldwide scale. We believe
that research is a personal effort, and no one will give away his discoveries without a certain personal profit.
If we remove the majority of members in this forum who are purely amateur enthusiasts and hobbyists, there also exist professionals who are trying to
acquire information for commercial exploitation.
We on our part, cannot know who these people are that fall into this category, and we also have no way of knowing who the true amateurs are in the
immense woldwide web ,where everyone uses a false name, and only a limited number of them use their real name.
For these reasons we are forced to limit the information on the operating theory of our system, which is our intellectual property and we will not allow
any free exploitation of this information from anyone.
Consequently the general operating theory that we have in our site, is for our judgement, sufficient for anyone interested to acquire this detector.What
someone really wants is to have a working detector that will give him the results that he is asking for, and we on our part keep the know how
confidential and protected.
We believe that our position on this matter is sincere. It is irrelevant for us if you do not want to admit it but it must be respected.
Another matter that has resulted is that certain members of this forum deliberately disrepute us purposely through their publications. Here we want to
clarify that our first orders are due to be delivered by the end of August. How is it possible that certain persons judge and compare and they discredit a
detector that they do not have, and have never used, but also have not even seen yet? This is a negative situation for our interests, which will allow us
at any moment that we judge right to press legal charges against anyone who purposely wants to disrepute our name via the internet or any other
means.
There is an effort to connect our devices with other manufacturers like Mineoro. Whatever opinion anyone has for the Mineoro detectors does not
concern us and is his own private matter. But we are concerned when people try to connect us with Mineoro and they try to link us with them about the
method of detection and operating principles of the iconos-md Detectors. We do not know the theory of operation of the Mineoro detectors and even if
we knew, it does not allow us to take a stand, but we certainly know ours and we can say that they have many differences between them.
A fact that we can publish is that our detector uses a microwave aerial in combination with a specially manufactured revolutionary sensor for Gold and
this creates a big difference. Also some similar expressions that we use do not mean essentially same operating theory of the detectors.
The only resemblance that we have with the Mineoro detectors is that we also can detect gold from Long distances.
Lastly a company, especially a new company in this area, must be judged by it's works. Shortly we will present a special Tesla coil exclusively for PI
Detectors, which as many know is very difficult to manufacture, but it will give you the possibility to understand and see the efforts that we make in
order for everyone to have better results in metal detecting.
Remember that every honest effort is for everybody's benefit, and should be faced seriously and not with disreputive reactions or other ways.
Regards to all
The iconos Team

Personally I don't see how your claims are any different to those of Mineoro. This device is based on the same pseudoscientific idea of ionic detection, and at 5300 euros (about £3710) no wonder you are offering free shipping worldwide.

[Dell Winders]

IT's All Irrevelant!

This simple, inexpensive, non-electronic, 4 oz. prototype Locator Rod discriminates and does everything that Iconis-MD & Mineoro, claim to do, and possibly more, at a mere fraction of the cost.

One version is being tested for locating, discriminating, and tracing underground PVC water pipe, from a distance of 50 feet, with success.

"WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, CAN BE DONE" Dell

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,

If I bent a 1/8 inch welding rod to the same shape as the Dell directional rod, then I taped 2 segments of a foam plastic egg crate to the shaft, would it work as good as a real Dell directionial rod?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Actually the Rod is plastic. Only the handle is brass. Dell

[J_Player]

DANG..!!
Well that explains it!
No wonder it wasn't working for me!

Thanks Dell.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

IT's All Irrevelant!

This simple, inexpensive, non-electronic, 4 oz. prototype Locator Rod discriminates and does everything that Iconis-MD & Mineoro, claim to do, and possibly more, at a mere fraction of the cost.

One version is being tested for locating, discriminating, and tracing underground PVC water pipe, from a distance of 50 feet, with success.

"WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, CAN BE DONE" Dell

Hi,
so do you say that's anti-economic spending e.g. 5300eur for something you actually can do with a 3eur paint roller handle ?

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Paint roller is not the same as the Dell directional rod. Paint roller uses plated steel, not brass. And no double compartment to hide bait samples. Also, cost is not 5300eur. Cost is $300 USD. When I see this price advertised on Dell's web page, it makes me think maybe it is a production model, not prototype.

Oh Dell, do you have a kit form available? I was thinking maybe if you could ship only the plastic parts and a printed pattern that shows how to bend the brass rod that I buy at Linde Welding Supply. Do you have a price available for this kind of kit?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Paint roller is not the same as the Dell directional rod. Paint roller uses plated steel, not brass. And no double compartment to hide bait samples. Also, cost is not 5300eur. Cost is $300 USD. When I see this price advertised on Dell's web page, it makes me think maybe it is a production model, not prototype.

Oh Dell, do you have a kit form available? I was thinking maybe if you could ship only the plastic parts and a printed pattern that shows how to bend the brass rod that I buy at Linde Welding Supply. Do you have a price available for this kind of kit?

Best wishes,
J_P

Oh yes... the BRASS is the secret... what a fool I'm !

[Dell Winders]

Cost is $300 USD. When I see this price advertised on Dell's web page, it makes me think maybe it is a production model, not prototype.

There you go with stupid assumptions again. You folks are so easily decieved by appearances. It is as I say it is, I do not lie.

The Universal Directional Locator pictured on my website, http://www.omnitron.net does NOT discriminate.

Every time you mock me you display your ignorance. Some here mock so much they appear to take great pride in their own stupidity.

RP, I'm surprised that you would jest about physics that work. You have been bringing out some good points which my own field experience can relate to. Too bad the others with their pretend scientific expertise dismiss the revelancy. Dell

[Max]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

There you go with stupid assumptions again. You folks are so easily decieved by appearances. It is as I say it is, I do not lie.

The Universal Directional Locator pictured on my website, http://www.omnitron.net does NOT discriminate.

Every time you mock me you display your ignorance. Some here mock so much they appear to take great pride in their own stupidity.

RP, I'm surprised that you would jest about physics that work. You have been bringing out some good points which my own field experience can relate to. Too bad the others with their pretend scientific expertise dismiss the revelancy. Dell

Hi,
"The Universal Directional Locator pictured on my website, http://www.omnitron.net does NOT discriminate.
"

why I'm so sure of that ??????

Maybe cause my paint roller can't disc too ???

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Dell now claims his directional rod does not discriminate:

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

The Universal Directional Locator pictured on my website, http://www.omnitron.net does NOT discriminate.

But that's not what he said earlier this month:

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

...Discriminates to, and detects Gold only at ranges to 100 yards

Is Dell Winders lying to us? Which of your two statements is the lie Dell?
Does the Dell Directional Rod discriminate or not?

Why should anyone believe Dell Winders?
It seem Dell has been lying to us for a long time. After trying to lead us to believe a software programmer invented Vernell's marketing BS, he went on to try to convince us that his LRL never failed Randi's LRL test. But Dell didn't stop there, When he was caught in these lies, he started calling all his accusers stupid, deceitful, pretenders, etc. Now he is trying to lie about whether his directional rod can discriminate or not. Why should anyone believe Dell Winders?

History of lying and deceit:
Dell didn't begin his career of lying here in this forum. He has been defrauding consumers for years. THis began long ago when Dell sold the "Dell Omnitron system II VR 800" without telling his customers this was really a Vernell Electronics detector with a false label on it. Ever since Carl exposed this hunk of crap for what it is, Dell has been dis-avowing all knowledge of the Vernell electronics, even though it was Dell who sold them with his own label on them. See Carl's report here: http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/...r800/index.dat
Dell continued to conceal the truth about this LRL he sold until he was finally forced to admit it was really a Vernell VR-800.

Continued fraudulent advertising:
Dell had no choice but to remove the Vernell products from his web page, but just look at the lies he publishes today... We still see fraudulent advertising where he claims his Pro-4 contains a microcontroller: "The frequencies are very stable computer programmed, generated and broadcast through a small electronic (state of the art) microcontroller circuit."
This is a lie! Anybody who reads this is being defrauded. There is no computer program or microcontroller in the Pro-4. The only electronics in the Pro-4 are a 555 timer IC and a switch that makes it oscillate at different frequencies. The 555 timer chip is not state of the art. It was developed a couple decades ago to perform electronic timing functions, not microcontroller functions. This 555 timer cannot accept any computer program because it is not programmable, and has no programmable memory or microconrtoller features whatsoever. Maybe Dell is willing to show us some evidence of a "computer program" or a "microcrontroller" inside the Pro-4. When Carl opened one of Dell's Pro-4 locators, he found a speaker coil that was ripped out of a speaker and glued inside an empty potentiometer casing -- hardly "state of the art".

Dell's new tricks:
We proved you are a liar Dell. The proof is right on your web page, and in your forum posts here. Where is your proof that we assumed anything? Is it possible we made no assumptions? Is it possible we were only quoting the lies that you printed on your web page and in our forum? Are you complaining about your own lies now, and trying to blame it on us?

Don't you care if there are laws against lying to people in order to make sales of fraudulent equipment, Dell Winders? Aren't you concerned the FTC might decide to press charges that would result in you spending time in a federal penetentiary for defrauding consumers Dell Winders?

Geotech forum members not so stupid:
We don't need any more manufacturer websites full of sneaky marketing gimmicks. Why not just tell the truth about what your LRLs actually do instead of shoveling all your BS? Unlike the suckers who read your web page, most of us in this forum understand the basics of electronics. You can fool your customers, but you can't fool us. And calling us names does not erase the lies you published in this forum or on your web page. They are still there for all to read.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

.

[Dell Winders]

Nope! you are totally wrong. They look alike but have different componnents. The Prototype I have been testing for over a year discriminates, and is not for sale.

The one on my web site that I sell DOES NOT discriminate. It is sold as an accessory for Frequency Discriminators of all manufacture.

Dell had no choice but to remove the Vernell products from his web page, but just look at the lies he publishes today... We still see fraudulent advertising where he claims his Pro-4 contains a microcontroller: "The frequencies are very stable computer programmed, generated and broadcast through a small electronic (state of the art) microcontroller circuit."
This is a lie! Anybody who reads this is being defrauded. There is no computer program or microcontroller in the Pro-4. The only electronics in the Pro-4 are a 555 timer IC and a switch that makes it oscillate at different frequencies. The 555 timer chip is not state of the art. It was developed a couple decades ago to perform electronic timing functions, not microcontroller functions. This 555 timer cannot accept any computer program because it is not programmable, and has no programmable memory or microconrtoller features whatsoever. Maybe Dell is willing to show us some evidence of a "computer program" or a "microcrontroller" inside the Pro-4. When Carl opened one of Dell's Pro-4 locators, he found a speaker coil that was ripped out of a speaker and glued inside an empty potentiometer casing -- hardly "state of the art".

YOU ARE A LIAR. I DEFY YOU TO SHOW A 555 TIMER INSIDE THE PRO-4, UNLESS YOU DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MICRO-CONTROLLER AND A 555 TIMER.

STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. YOU NEED TO RETRACT YOUR LIES AND MAKE APOLOGIES. DELL

[Max]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Nope! you are totally wrong. They look alike but have different componnents. The Prototype I have been testing for over a year discriminates, and is not for sale.

The one on my web site that I sell DOES NOT discriminate. It is sold as an accessory for Frequency Discriminators of all manufacture.



YOU ARE A LIAR. I DEFY YOU TO SHOW A 555 TIMER INSIDE THE PRO-4, UNLESS YOU DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MICRO-CONTROLLER AND A 555 TIMER.

STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES. YOU NEED TO RETRACT YOUR LIES AND MAKE APOLOGIES. DELL

Hi Dell,
so you have a microcontroller inside that now ???

And then ? Any microcontroller can be programmed to do the same work of a 555 timer ic !

If that's the innovation, my friend, you just increase manifacturing cost of maybe 2$ ... giving no advantages in any LRL function !

BTW if the 555 one doesn't work... why the microcontroller one must be working now ?

Also Mineoro pdc-210 has a microcontroller inside... and I saw the code... nothing useful for LRL to work... the "loops" yes... and how an Atmel chip, and these are really state of the art, could be used to mask the crap that is all around... to make think some fool that there is an unconventional idea or principle behind LRLs.

But they are just CRAP. Brazilian made or US made is not important for me.
They are CRAP, that's the point.

Untill now no LRL gave proofs of finding anything in the searchfield... no manifacturer, or dealer, or even customer/user gave any scientific proof e.g. winning the challenge... demonstrate to the world that stuff is useful apart rising the bank account of some manifacturer or dealer.

Now you say here that your new "paint roller handle" is different... ok... doesn't disc... ok... whatever you want !

For me it doesn't work, like all the other big and small brothers, with 555 or MCU, with or without electronics at all.

They are just, in the best hypothesis, dowsing rods.

Any stupid piece of wood or brass or empty plastic have exactly the same probability of make you find a treasure than your so fancy gizmos.

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

YOU NEED TO RETRACT YOUR LIES AND MAKE APOLOGIES.

What? Apologize for your lies? Get a clue, Dell... You been busted. We caught you in the act --- lying repeatedly.

Dell's Lies:
1. You are claiming you have a computer programmed microcontroller in your Pro-4 LRL. There is no microcrontroller or computer program in the Pro-4. Am I wrong? What microcontroller are you talking about? I can't find it... can you point it out to any of us? Is it hidden under the epoxy? Scroll down and look below... We found out what you really hid under the epoxy. You sleaze!

2. Posted by Dell Winders: "They look alike but have different componnents. The Prototype I have been testing for over a year discriminates, and is not for sale." Hahahahaaaaa.... prove it, Dell. How stupid do you think we are? Hahahahaaa. Maybe you could explain how your prototype is different, then maybe somebody might believe you... Hahahahaaa.

3. You lied to your customers for years about the fake labeling on the Vernell electronics. Do the elderly couples on a fixed pension know that you have a home on the lake that was paid for with the money they they sent you? Did they know the truth, or did they believe the Vernell garbage you sold them would help them find treasure? Do you have any remorse for what you did to them?

4. You lied about who invented Vernell's marketing BS. We caught you in that one too.

5. You lied about failing Randi's LRL test.
http://www.randi.org/jr/200511/112505psychich.html#i5
http://www.randi.org/jr/200511/112505psychich.html#i5

Why should anyone believe you? All we hear is lies. Maybe you fooled some of your uneducated friends who didn't get past 6th grade, but your tricks don't work on us. Why not turn over a new leaf and answer the questions we have been asking:

A. Which of Carl's contest rules would prevent a LRL from locating the hidden 10 ounce gold bar?
B. Can you demonstrate the X-Scan actually doing what is described on your web page?
C. If you can prove Randi lied in a court of law, why don't you?
D. Why haven't you sued me like you talked about earlier? I am still waiting to meet you in court where the judge will order you to prove what you are claiming,

Up until now nobody called anyone a liar except you, Dell Winders. But now I am calling you the liar. The proof is in what you posted in our forum, and what you printed on your web page. If you think I am wrong, then sue me. Protect your good name like you said you could.

You don't fool us Dell Winders. Go try your BS on some ignorant fools who believe you.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

maybe he mean that thing...