Real clone Alonso-PD

[ANDREAS]

Hi all and Happy new year
Many members knows few years ago i build a clone Alonso-PD
This old "amateur clone" i use many-many mods for find the best balance between all stage.
But is not enough for me. Last months i start again experiments. My "target is... I try work with the same method use by Alonso for calibration omega-coils and feritte all together with standard schematic publish here from qiaozhi without any extras.
I find this method and i build a "real alonso-PD clone" with all parts.
My prototype now can detect a very-very small magnet-piece 2 meters distance very easy and a micro transmitter 433MHZ more than 50 meters distance.
My clone has not false signals from South-north magnetics lines and with calibration knob i can calibrate machine very easy in search-area
In my test-area work perfect, but i need make tests with unknown area and ofcourse video's with unknown targets
This knob for calibration and very small mods (low-bat section, power supply section) are the only extra's
The truth is that the calibration is too difficult and now i understand why there were failures to construct a truly clone
Here some pics my prototype
Heltkit section and feritte section work together without extra selection switch. Output signal from feritte coils is very-very low and feritte section now, work without overload signal.
Next days if i have free time i publish here more infos and i start video's with prototype
I want to thank a forum member here ( very good electronic engeneer ) , because, with his help and testing , I managed to find all the problems encountered
best regards

[folharin]

andreas excellent job. you are using ferrite and omega coil together? can see the regulator calibration for the ferrite, it changes the position of the ferrite coil?

[Geo]

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

Hi all and Happy new year
Many members knows few years ago i build a clone Alonso-PD
This old "amateur clone" i use many-many mods for find the best balance between all stage.
But is not enough for me. Last months i start again experiments. My "target is... I try work with the same method use by Alonso for calibration omega-coils and feritte all together with standard schematic publish here from qiaozhi without any extras.
I find this method and i build a "real alonso-PD clone" with all parts.
My prototype now can detect a very-very small magnet-piece 2 meters distance very easy and a micro transmitter 433MHZ more than 50 meters distance.
My clone has not false signals from South-north magnetics lines and with calibration knob i can calibrate machine very easy in search-area
In my test-area work perfect, but i need make tests with unknown area and ofcourse video's with unknown targets
This knob for calibration and very small mods (low-bat section, power supply section) are the only extra's
The truth is that the calibration is too difficult and now i understand why there were failures to construct a truly clone
Here some pics my prototype
Heltkit section and feritte section work together without extra selection switch. Output signal from feritte coils is very-very low and feritte section now, work without overload signal.
Next days if i have free time i publish here more infos and i start video's with prototype
I want to thank a forum member here ( very good electronic engeneer ) , because, with his help and testing , I managed to find all the problems encountered
best regards

still you fiddle with this??

[aft_72005]

Hi Andreas
And happy new year
Congratulation. Seeing nice work , I hope more success for you .
Best regards

[Nicolas]

Alonso Scheme for PD is the best here. Thank you to all who have actually worked on and do some modification and updating. such as Qiaozhi Eteban and Morgan and other.

Good luck my friend Andreas. and I hope for you a good result in all the world.
the transmitteur and receiver 433MHZ and the right choice my friend. well you advance in this field. 433 MHz is used in the detection by the magnetometer.

Look this picture details and link

www.parallaxinc.com





If you need help for higtech you know my email.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

Hi all and Happy new year
Many members knows few years ago i build a clone Alonso-PD
This old "amateur clone" i use many-many mods for find the best balance between all stage.
But is not enough for me. Last months i start again experiments. My "target is... I try work with the same method use by Alonso for calibration omega-coils and feritte all together with standard schematic publish here from qiaozhi without any extras.
I find this method and i build a "real alonso-PD clone" with all parts.
My prototype now can detect a very-very small magnet-piece 2 meters distance very easy and a micro transmitter 433MHZ more than 50 meters distance.
My clone has not false signals from South-north magnetics lines and with calibration knob i can calibrate machine very easy in search-area
In my test-area work perfect, but i need make tests with unknown area and ofcourse video's with unknown targets
This knob for calibration and very small mods (low-bat section, power supply section) are the only extra's
The truth is that the calibration is too difficult and now i understand why there were failures to construct a truly clone
Here some pics my prototype
Heltkit section and feritte section work together without extra selection switch. Output signal from feritte coils is very-very low and feritte section now, work without overload signal.
Next days if i have free time i publish here more infos and i start video's with prototype
I want to thank a forum member here ( very good electronic engeneer ) , because, with his help and testing , I managed to find all the problems encountered
best regards

Your coil looks higher up than the original Alonso PD, and the ferrite appears to be placed in the null line (as described in Chapter 14 of ITMD). Is this correct?

[Geo]

With ferrite "out" of coil is more easy to null the signal of passive receiver. But original Alonso;s PD is different.

[ANDREAS]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Your coil looks higher up than the original Alonso PD, and the ferrite appears to be placed in the null line (as described in Chapter 14 of ITMD). Is this correct?

I use scale via photo ( for example attachment pic). In this case i have false dimensions +/-2-3 mm. After study some photo's inside PD-Alonso, before start build omega-coils etc, i am sure for results and real dimensions using my PD.
...and the ferrite appears to be placed in the null line (as described in Chapter 14 of ITMD)
I have not your book, but feritte is not placed in the null line.
Please remember my old message, we have ONLY a "magic place". In this place, output feritte-coils has only 0,1-3mv output signal. For this results, i use a micrometric moving system and ofcourse need fine null omega together (move -null omega and again). This point is very difficult. We need repeating tests, before protection this place
Regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

Please remember my old message, we have ONLY a "magic place". In this place, output feritte-coils has only 0,1-3mv output signal. For this results, i use a micrometric moving system and ofcourse need fine null omega together (move -null omega and again). This point is very difficult. We need repeating tests, before protection this place

Does your ferrite coil have two cores with a gap (as per the original Alonso PD) or is it just one complete core?

[ANDREAS]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Does your ferrite coil have two cores with a gap (as per the original Alonso PD) or is it just one complete core?

It's same about results, the gap is easier for calibration, but
the gap produce sometimes false signals. My opinion.
Never we have see a real photo, about feritte (gap or not). I think "the gap" is false infos for stoped some members build it or present a myth
I think "original feritte" work with complete core. I use complete core, because has stability out signal
Second i believe never members open the original coil in feritte. A x-ray photo yes, but destroy the place and open never
I have this sense, because.. if you have a unit and work , you don't touch somethink and stop work.
The interest for all is this "magic point" is +/- 0.1mm. Tell me Quiaozhi, can you find this point with your hands? Personally i cannot. In this case my clone with micrometric regulator i think is better original
Conclusion. Members that say they know or have opened or know exactly how is the original, i think say "guess - tales" and they publish bla-bla and dreams.
If they knows really , few years ago, they start build and sell units. This is only real true.
regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

The interest for all is this "magic point" is +/- 0.1mm. Tell me Quiaozhi, can you find this point with your hands? Personally i cannot.

I was also unable to find the "magic point" by hand. The TOTeM unit uses a single ferrite core that is placed in the upper null line of the TX coil. This is easy to find by hand, and can be nulled to only a few mV.

If the original Alonso PD has a split core, then I suspect the ferrite nearest the TX coil is acting similar to the nulling coil in a concentric arrangement. Since it is not driven by the TX oscillator, and relies only on voltage induced into the coil, this would explain why it is very difficult to find the balance point.

[ANDREAS]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I was also unable to find the "magic point" by hand. The TOTeM unit uses a single ferrite core that is placed in the upper null line of the TX coil. This is easy to find by hand, and can be nulled to only a few mV.

If the original Alonso PD has a split core, then I suspect the ferrite nearest the TX coil is acting similar to the nulling coil in a concentric arrangement. Since it is not driven by the TX oscillator, and relies only on voltage induced into the coil, this would explain why it is very difficult to find the balance point.

About totem is easy, the transmitter is very low power. I don't i build complet with transmitter, only i build receiver. Alonso PD has a strong transmitter and feritte core is very near. For all places we have 50-100mv output coils feritte, ofcourse overload feritte-receiver

[folharin]

see what esteban said:
I forgot! See in blue circle the sand. Pistol also is used as normal MD for to found the item in the sparzed sand or hole!

[folharin]

bobina omega é md normal ,não encontra objetos longe
only part ferrite is lrl

[Nicolas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQlraoG1sCw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uda9gjUEGgg

[ANDREAS]

Originally Posted by folharin

bobina omega é md normal ,não encontra objetos longe
only part ferrite is lrl

You have not exactly right. Need the part of MD receiver. But it is very unstable and soon i replace this stage. I see after experiments need a balance between MD receive and feritte receiver for best results
I make tests only MD section or only transmitter with ferrite, but I do not like the results.
regards

[Funfinder]

> this "magic point" is +/- 0.1mm. Tell me Quiaozhi, can you find this point with your hands? Personally i cannot. In this case my clone with micrometric regulator

This whole ultrasensitivity adjustment way described here is for laboratory only.
Its useless because if the voltage will drop from 17,995v to just 17,985v it will be already out of balance again.

Same with temperature, moisture, electronic parts and especially harsh treasure hunting
conditions like weather, electro-smog and many other factors.

Under super stable conditions you also can built an usual metal detector
that is extremly sensitive. But at real treasure-hunting everything is anything else than super-stable.


btw. it would be much more clever to fix and construct the part with the 2 coils first on a extremly solid basis (melt it into plastic or resin etc.) and afterwards you find your needed zero or whatever EM-field window for the ferrite-coil by electronical adjustable components like variable capacitors, mini-coils or whatever. If this point is so critical and easy to bring out of "center" you must work with a programmed microcontroller which controls and readjusts the needed values automatically.

A lot measurement with a 10meter rope works perfekt, but only if there is no wind at all.

[ANDREAS]

Funfinder wrote
This whole ultrasensitivity adjustment way described here is for laboratory only.
Its useless because if the voltage will drop from 17,995v to just 17,985v it will be already out of balance again.
You are confused. We have drop or not if unit don't work lab this is correct. In this case i have put a microcalibration pot for setup again. Please study my pics. On panel i have a calibration pot for it. If you cannot understand me my method, don't worry
Funfinder wrote
it would be much more clever to fix and construct the part with the 2 coils first on a extremly solid basis (melt it into plastic or resin etc.) and afterwards you find your needed zero or whatever EM-field window for the ferrite-coil by electronical adjustable components like variable capacitors, mini-coils or whatever. If this point is so critical and easy to bring out of "center" you must work with a programmed microcontroller which controls and readjusts the needed values automatically.
I have not time for explain more. But you must be sure, if put a microcontroller this clone don't work
Funfider i build this clone for personal study and use. For me is a "pratform" for understanding method use by Alonso (if he.... build this machine). I am not interest search or find more about "Brasil method" detection for long range.
I am not interesting for sceptics if... this unit work etc etc or not
I am only happy, because after few years, i publish the first real clone.
Later if i finish my study with this unit i send this unit gift... a good friend mexico. Maybe if he want publish results with this myth. You knows, this is not my choice
For me is only a personal test for find method calibration.
My "cup" is many-many members says ".. i build it", but i am sure now, on they dreams ofcourse build it
regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

For me is only a personal test for find method calibration.

TOTeM was constructed for similar reasons. I wanted to understand why other members were convinced the Alonso PD could detect targets at distances greater than a conventional metal detector. Then there was the technical issue concerning the ferrite coil balancing. In the end it turned out to be a very entertaining project, and the results were interesting enough to include in the book (ITMD).

On many occasions skeptics are accused of having no personal experience with LRLs, so this was also an opportunity to push that accusation to one side. All the information concerning TOTeM is provided in ITMD, and nothing is hidden or made purposely confusing. Other members here have built TOTeM, and one has even created a PCB to replace the original stripboard layout. It's an intriguing device to use in the field, and often you can appear to be following a "signal line". However, I leave it up to each experimenter to arrive at their own conclusions, and to modify the design as they wish.

[ANDREAS]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

TOTeM was constructed for similar reasons. I wanted to understand why other members were convinced the Alonso PD could detect targets at distances greater than a conventional metal detector. Then there was the technical issue concerning the ferrite coil balancing. In the end it turned out to be a very entertaining project, and the results were interesting enough to include in the book (ITMD).

On many occasions skeptics are accused of having no personal experience with LRLs, so this was also an opportunity to push that accusation to one side. All the information concerning TOTeM is provided in ITMD, and nothing is hidden or made purposely confusing. Other members here have built TOTeM, and one has even created a PCB to replace the original stripboard layout. It's an intriguing device to use in the field, and often you can appear to be following a "signal line". However, I leave it up to each experimenter to arrive at their own conclusions, and to modify the design as they wish.

Qiaozhi If TOTeM can detect a very small magnet 5mmX5mm 2 meters distance you are a "right way" . I find this tip after many experiments with small luck.
Few months ago, i build a greek-project name english-PD. I see the same results a small magnet detect 5 meters distance and a very small 433mhz transmitter very easy detect 50 meters distance.
We have the same results. Strange is .. if we have perfect calibration and detect only small piece magnet, units cannot detect magnetics lines from earth.
I try understand more about ferrites with coils. Maybe i find a theory for this, but is not time explain more
regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

Qiaozhi If TOTeM can detect a very small magnet 5mmX5mm 2 meters distance you are a "right way" . I find this tip after many experiments with small luck.

Is this a neodymium magnet that you used?

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

Few months ago, i build a greek-project name english-PD. I see the same results a small magnet detect 5 meters distance and a very small 433mhz transmitter very easy detect 50 meters distance.

Do you have a link to this "English-PD", or perhaps you can post the information here?

Originally Posted by ANDREAS

We have the same results. Strange is .. if we have perfect calibration and detect only small piece magnet, units cannot detect magnetics lines from earth.

Yes ... interesting observation.

[ANDREAS]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Is this a neodymium magnet that you used?

No! This is a very simple small- black magnet from a chenese- toy.

Do you have a link to this "English-PD", or perhaps you can post the information here?

This is a old cscope (maybe 950) with full modifications and a pink or purple ferrite length 20cm. This unit detect only gold fresh-buried-old on air... etc,without problem very easy. Later maybe i publish some infos about this very interesting modification, because here is a thread for clone alonso-pd
For me interesting is we have two units working with same philoshophy
regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Is this a neodymium magnet that you used?


Do you have a link to this "English-PD", or perhaps you can post the information here?


Yes ... interesting observation.

Hi Qiaozhi.
Look the thread "STRANGE..." at RS forum

[ANDREAS]

Here is the better design PCB for this PD.
Later i publish full schematic (is same posting by Qiaozhi) and a pdf file PCB for all members wants build it for experiments. My mods are very small for stability.
If i have free time, i make some video's for look all members why i say "this is a real clone"
regards

[Fred]

Thanks Andreas for sharing and posting this information, and continuing with constructive elements and experiments.
This is finally neutral and technical information, whatever are the results they will be useful and interesting.