Franco's LRL ver_4046

[Geo]

I have make all the versions of Franco's lrl (except this at 59Khz).
Other worked good other nothing. I had a wooden box and decided to put inside the version with 4046 that i had constructed before long time. I shielding the box with foil and have put inside the pcb... baterys etc. I saw that now it did n't beep when i touch the antenna.
So i open this thread to talk about it with all that you have constructed it.

A photo from box for begining....

[Geo]

here the file from Franco....

At collector of Tr4 (point X) i measure a voltage of 4.6V dc.
At pin 2 of 4046 i measure 3.010V and when i touch the antenna it falls to 2.090V (20 mv difference), but don't beep. I decided to give more gain at IC2A by decreasing R6.
Any other idea??? or problems from you??

[abdou2014]

Nice Work ! how did you calibrate Franco LRL at this frequency ?

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Geo,
Good work, but I don't know if my lrl works at this frequency, I have tried but with bad results. TR2-TR3-TR4 stages work well in the range 2-10Mhz, with 59Khz you must change C13 and C15, try 10 or 20nF, TR1 is also the "heart" where is the detection of the phenomenon, the base-emitter junction has a capacity of about 10pF, compatible with the resonant frequency of L1 / C1, very far from 59Khz. However, in the collector of TR4 you must have 1-4 volt AC, also check that the LRL functions in reverse mode as happened to another member of the forum. At pin out of LM358A there is some change touching the antenna? If not there is a wrong bias in LM358A, If this is the case try to connect a resistor (about 100K) between the pin - of the LM358A with + 12V and if there are no results with ground.
Best Regards

[enjoykin4]

Hello Signore Geo

About Franco PLL-LRL


With P1 you can adjust frequency of CD4046. Good starting value 3 MHz. Try lower frequecny. For P1 use good quality 25 turns 100K trimmer potentiometer for fine tunning frequency.

P2 is saturation 1k trimmer potentiometer and adjust amount of signal amplitude which goes to mixer stage L1-C11-C10-C9-C8-Tr2. This part is crucial for proper working. You must not SATURATE mixer stage or you can't catch "scalar signa" from the antenna. There is present some kind of "scalar edge modulation" of input signals by PLL from noble metals.

Scalar filed is make each time when two vector Electric fields E striking each other with 180 degree phase shift. One of condition for scalar generation is the system must be in resonance.

At joint point R17-R16-Collector T4 should be a nice sinus 3Vpp which decrease sharp when you touch the antenna with hand(s).

The antenna is very important stuff. Right spin wounded antenna is different from left spin wounded antenna. Try both. Also try left-right or right-left windings for anrtenna. For example 35 turns left when 180 degre change direction when wight windings.

This FrancoLrl should be examined and tested very carefully with lot of experimenting.

I wish you luck.
Reg.Enjoykin4

[Geo]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

Hi Geo,
Good work, but I don't know if my lrl works at this frequency, I have tried but with bad results. TR2-TR3-TR4 stages work well in the range 2-10Mhz, with 59Khz you must change C13 and C15, try 10 or 20nF, TR1 is also the "heart" where is the detection of the phenomenon, the base-emitter junction has a capacity of about 10pF, compatible with the resonant frequency of L1 / C1, very far from 59Khz. However, in the collector of TR4 you must have 1-4 volt AC, also check that the LRL functions in reverse mode as happened to another member of the forum. At pin out of LM358A there is some change touching the antenna? If not there is a wrong bias in LM358A, If this is the case try to connect a resistor (about 100K) between the pin - of the LM358A with + 12V and if there are no results with ground.
Best Regards

Hi Franco.
I don't want to make it to work at 59Khz, only i wrote that i constructed all your versions except this at 59Khz. I did n't measure the pinout of IC2 when i touch the antenna but what i see is that some times the voltage of pin2 of 4046 is increased and other is decreased and i can't understand why. I connected a portable (no gnd) oscilloscope to see for self-oscillations but it works ok. Will try to decrease the output of Tr4 lower than 4v and to see what happens after it.

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by abdou2014

Nice Work ! how did you calibrate Franco LRL at this frequency ?

Wich frequency???
4046 works near to 2.5Mhz...

[FrancoItaly]

As says enjoykin4 it's better to work with original frequency, about 3Mhz or less ( at max working frequence the CD4046 absorbs more current). At 59Khz L1 is short circuit for the phenomenon, I propose this change, a ferrite rod as antenna and a transistor for amplify the 59Khz signal.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by enjoykin4

Hello Signore Geo

About Franco PLL-LRL


With P1 you can adjust frequency of CD4046. Good starting value 3 MHz. Try lower frequecny. For P1 use good quality 25 turns 100K trimmer potentiometer for fine tunning frequency.

P2 is saturation 1k trimmer potentiometer and adjust amount of signal amplitude which goes to mixer stage L1-C11-C10-C9-C8-Tr2. This part is crucial for proper working. You must not SATURATE mixer stage or you can't catch "scalar signa" from the antenna. There is present some kind of "scalar edge modulation" of input signals by PLL from noble metals.

Scalar filed is make each time when two vector Electric fields E striking each other with 180 degree phase shift. One of condition for scalar generation is the system must be in resonance.

At joint point R17-R16-Collector T4 should be a nice sinus 3Vpp which decrease sharp when you touch the antenna with hand(s).

The antenna is very important stuff. Right spin wounded antenna is different from left spin wounded antenna. Try both. Also try left-right or right-left windings for anrtenna. For example 35 turns left when 180 degre change direction when wight windings.

This FrancoLrl should be examined and tested very carefully with lot of experimenting.

I wish you luck.
Reg.Enjoykin4

Hi Enjoykin4, thanks for your advices.
About potentiometers i use multiturn as you say. Only difference is that i adjusted P2 for 4.6v out at collector of TR4. Will try to readjust it.
P1 can't tune PLL higher than 2.7Mhz but i don't see any problem to it.
About antenna i use a simple stylus without coil. Do you think that the coil version is better??

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

As says enjoykin4 it's better to work with original frequency, about 3Mhz or less ( at max working frequence the CD4046 absorbs more current). At 59Khz L1 is short circuit for the phenomenon, I propose this change, a ferrite rod as antenna and a transistor for amplify the 59Khz signal.

Franco, i don't like to work 59 Khz
Do you use translator???????

[enjoykin4]

Geo and others who make Franco4046LRL -> for the antenna use original Francoitaly coil antenna with 70 windings. For better distance use more than 70turns . I have a good results with 700 turns 0.4mm diameter magnet wire without spacing between turns.

Use "star" grounding. All ground wires go to one point and that point to sheild box.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by enjoykin4

Geo and others who make Franco4046LRL -> for the antenna use original Francoitaly coil antenna with 70 windings. For better distance use more than 70turns . I have a good results with 700 turns 0.4mm diameter magnet wire without spacing between turns.

Use "star" grounding. All ground wires go to one point and that point to sheild box.

Thanks about antenna. At antenna with 700 turns how did you make it??? 350L + 350R or one coil 700 turns????
About gnd... i use the star system.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Geo,
Sorry I don't well understand.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

Hi Geo,
Sorry I don't well understand.

Hi Franco.
I understand... problems

[enjoykin4]

Sorrz for delaz Geo

700 turns left windings

[Geo]

Thank you.
What about bias of TR1???? there is not bias at base of it.
What do you connected there????
At my pcb every resistance between 68k...220k works ok, but without resistance TR1 (BC107) don't work.

[FrancoItaly]

Hi Geo,
TR1 is polarised by positive peak from square wave from VCO, C3 acts as high pass filter, but doesn't work if beta of TR1 is too less. The use of resistance is Ok.
Best Regards

[enjoykin4]

Geo sorry for delay !!


Some small hints......

simple stylys antenna give a wider range of detection. Kind of antialiasing "scalar" signals - while coil antenna give extremely sharp "PIN-POINT". Nice to show exactly point where to dig - if you can mount small Chinese hand laser pointer on it. I was made 3 Franco PLL4046 LRLs for my team. I was using "Franco lrl2.pdf" pcb layout but have some problems with PCB according to intentional or non intentional errors in PCB. For example one of errors - Pin 5 or CD4046 which is inhibit input control sygnal for VCO and SoureFollower must be grounded for proper working or 4046 or if HIGH Z state going into standby mode.

If not a problem upload your PCB artwork and oscillograph envelopes in important test points i will check it up.

In my oppinion the primary stuff in Franco artwork PASSSIVE SCALAR RECEIVER is NOT TO GO INTO SATURATION MODE OF INPUT STAGE (in sense) - some very small ammount of impulse signals from (VCO) Pin 3 and 4 CD4046 should go to primary oscilating circuit which is L1-C11-C10-C9-C8-Tr2 which DOES NOT SUPRESS "SCALAR" signal from your antenna (read like detecting gold or silver coins). Better way is very small amplitude of impulses via T1 than largest amplitude which are some kind of Phase noise for "Scalar" signal from nobble metals. Also, Franco coil antenna is a "strange" THING. Some kind of unbalanced bidirectional dipole. I have a lot ideas about many kind of Scalar antennas like for example Tesla coils, Caduceus Coil, Moebius coil, but need more data and information to analyse. http://www.berkanapath.com/radionics...l-mobius-coils.

For T1 use any NPN transistor with low H21e and usually value biasing resistor - but keep it mind it can work as Franco designed it in C-class only with positive square wave peaks from 4046. Orientational values for h21e T1 =20...80. Not to more.
Unless T1 - T2,T3,T4 must have as high h21e as possible but don not use Darlington pairs - for example MPSA13 or similar.

C13 and C15 shoud be for experiments variable trimmers or any parallel combination of variabile trimmer capacitor and fixed capacitor for fine adjustment. They make a part in transistor amplification stage by introducing of negative feedback in collector-emiter current. Much better variant than tuning with resistors. Ideally where shoud be transistros with metal case (4 th port output) which must be grounded to exactly one point. For electrical simmetry you need geometrical symmetry so placing of components is also very important. Look on the Franco design like VHF or UHF circuit design. Same rules like for high frequencies worth here.

If you can save and uploas envelopes of signals in most important points of Franco desgin. There id a lot of place for modernization and impruvements but not before we "CACTH" the minimum basic rules for "Phennomenon appereance".

I have some ideas for "Scalar Discrimination" but need a lot of further informations and dependencies. The main stuff which I looking for is some cross-correlation function betwen "Scalar" E-waves(+) and vector E-waves(+-) from oscillator. Some kind of quadraure detectors should be designed and tested here for active sniffers. I know how to make active sniffer for Scalar waves - in sense direct scalar conversion but with passive there are a lot of problems like spatial interferation of Scalar waves not only with receiver coil (sniffer) but also with biophysical environment. Scalar waves can change the atomic structure of organic and non-organic materials in some specific ways. Right hand spin and left hand spin scalar transmissions are totaly different stuffs. These fields were also known as Scalar Torsion filelds and leading military labs all over the planet earth working of it - of courcse for military purposes.

ps: I am thinking that behaviour of LRL in direct or reverse mode (rising or falling signals) when you touch antenna is in strong dependent with incoming of Scalar spin waves of wounded antennas. (left-hand or right hand wounded antennas have different behaviour).

reg.enjoykin4

[enjoykin4]

Signore Franco


will be very helpfull to Geo and all of us here at longrangelocators.com if you share with us working oscillogram envelopes of your PLL-LRL and Quarts-LRL and other LRL versons artwork - scalar sniffer designs. And of course some unconventional thoughts and unusual ideas for further improvements.

Best regards
Enjoykin4.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

Hi Geo,
TR1 is polarised by positive peak from square wave from VCO, C3 acts as high pass filter, but doesn't work if beta of TR1 is too less. The use of resistance is Ok.
Best Regards

Yes, maybe BC108B that i used to has very low beta. Finally i connected a 150k from base to ground.

Regards

[Geo]

Hi Enjoy.. thanks for your tips.
I have attached my pcb at Franco's thread, look here ...http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...1&postcount=78
Now it seems to working ok (except a small problem that will write later) but if you need oscillograms i can upload.
For T1 i use a small beta transistor (Bc107B) and for other transistors i use BC547C.
For the time it works perfect but i don't know what will happened when will put it inside the shielded box. Some times shielded box "destroy" many things...

[Geo]

Now lets see another problem.
LRL is not stable.
I adjust it so when i touch the antenna it beeps. After one or 2 minutes it needs readjusting because don't beep with antenna touch. It happens every 1 or 2 minutes.
For power supply i use 2 batteries 9V in series and a 7812 for stabilisation.
All the time that lrl works the voltage is between 12.225 and 12.230 V so believe that the problem is not the supply.
Also the Frequency is stable... changes 1Khz in 5 minutes. C2 is a simple ceramic but since frequency is stable i believe that it is ok.
Your opinion ......

Regards

[FrancoItaly]

Hi All,
enjoykin4 the explanation on the operation of my lrl is very accurate, you're a real expert.
I am always in Switzerland and I have no chance to post oscillograms of my LRL. As regards the stability all the lrl that I have realized are very stable, but sometimes it happened that the LRL was unstable, this is due to the fact that there is an spurious oscillation which overlaps the signal, try this: adjust the P2 slider to the +12V (to reset the signal on the base of TR2) and verifies that the point X there is no signal, You may do this with the scope but often the measure clears the oscillations, a more secure method is measuring the DC output of the pin 2 of CD4046, I recall should be zero. If there is signal at point X must decrease the amplification lowering the value of C13-C15.
Best Regards

[Geo]

Hi Franco.
I have checked it a previous time and here is n't any oscillation, but i don't lose anything to check it again...

Regards

[enjoykin4]

Thank you Signore Franco !!

In fact I am not EE (electronics engineer) - only the ordinary physicist - forever pupil of Mother Nature !!