testing around with PDK & Co. is a waste of time

[Funfinder]

Sorry for all who are interested in this type of circuits stuff but be warned:

Those "seductive" and "real looking" responses aka "phenomen", signal-lines etc. you get
will only costs you hundreds of bucks, hours and nerves and in the end you'll get nothing!

Why?

Cause otherwise we would have a device this kind of circuit already since over 20 years.

You even don't know what it exactly "false" detects!
Some think it works in their country while it proven does not work in other countries?
The special "EM-Field" or radio-wave situation there shall be the point... No, its not!

If this would be the case, you would know what kind of special situation is needed
and how to create it with additional seperated transmitters - but you don't know it!


In fact all those who are experimenting with this PDK etc. stuff are just wasting the
patience of the users here who wanna read about real results.

Tiying a little worldreceiver on a pole and walking with it close to the ground would be
the same useless experiment!


We doesn't need it that dozens of people get made crazy, wild and hot for one of those
useless PDK & Co. cirucits until those who spread this "virus" have not absolutly exact
answers on what principle its based, under what conditions it works at least somehow
reliable and what sort of noise and other disturbing factors hinder the circuit to work.


Some here seems to be already totally addicted to this circuit!
"I must tinker I must tinker I must tinker, I am shure within a few days I will have solved
the whole problem and then I have a super real working Long Range Locator"!

No, you won't!

And all those who got already "successful" results should have documented very exactly
why and under what conditions this was, so we still can find out afterwards how much
self-delusion and other "rendering those circuits useless"-factors have been involved.


This whole PDK circuit tinkering hype here to me is like looking for what kind of special
wood or metal a dowsing-rod should have been until it "really" works. Hahahaha!
You must be a magician with paranormal abilities to get it work, this is no question
about sensitivity, experience or if the moon is full or not!

If I was "full" the last night I'm also hyper-sensitive the next morning and I still
can't find any springs with cool water with a doswing-rod!


So please stop thrashing this forum with PDK etc. threads and if you can't you're
only medicine will be to buy one of those Mineoro fraudster detectors for many
thousands bucks until you will be cured.

Don't you see it - there is absolutly no REAL PROGRESS in this PDK-stuff at all!

Its even vice versa - those earlier thought as working devices have been stopped
saling and producing because of unsatisfied customers.

It doesn't go upwards, no no - its going down to hell with those PDK circuits!


I must stop to write, it's too much wasted time for this crap!


I warned you and this must be good enough for now.

And if pro's like Qiaozhi couldn't find out any useful or reliable results with this PDK style
circuits any other person also can't - the difference to them is only that they have a
believe in "it must work" because they are obsessed of "it must work".

[nelson]

I respec your comments about pdk, but at the same time, you don´t have rights to say stop posting about pdk, cause we all are free to post what ever you want about pdk and other similar devices.
If anyone wants to experiments something is ok and if you don´t like what others are posting, just quit and lave people to experiment free.
Has i know pdk it does work for short range detection and this was know not only from this forum, it was from emails and other communications systems.
Crypton for example is 10 times more powerful than pdk and this device it works has is advice. So far the so call phenomenum is not 100% clear about what you are detecting. Many people think that most of this devices do the best detection for gold around 77 Khz, but others said that the frequency in not relevant, so by now there still a real mystery of what you are detecting.
All in all, when you investigate about something, you are aquiring expirience, try and errors test, sharing information with others and so far you need to keep and keep trying for what you think is interesting to investigate. So please don´t try to stop the experiments of others, cause the big scientist did the same in the past, when they were call crazy people and at the end and after they die, people recognize that they were correct on their experiments.
In my opinion i never said that this devices works has promess, but time, reading, investigation, etc., convince me that i was wrong, cause today i have enough information and feedback from people like you and me ( not commercial ), that are getting good results. Also some people that had discover some treasures, are silent, cause they don´t want to be persuit by goberments to get their treasures.
Esteban unfortunally is sick, but i think that he has a lot to tell you about this. So i hope he can recover soon and get back on the forum.
Regards
Nelson

Originally Posted by Funfinder

Sorry for all who are interested in this type of circuits stuff but be warned:

Those "seductive" and "real looking" responses aka "phenomen", signal-lines etc. you get
will only costs you hundreds of bucks, hours and nerves and in the end you'll get nothing!

Why?

Cause otherwise we would have a device this kind of circuit already since over 20 years.

You even don't know what it exactly "false" detects!
Some think it works in their country while it proven does not work in other countries?
The special "EM-Field" or radio-wave situation there shall be the point... No, its not!

If this would be the case, you would know what kind of special situation is needed
and how to create it with additional seperated transmitters - but you don't know it!


In fact all those who are experimenting with this PDK etc. stuff are just wasting the
patience of the users here who wanna read about real results.

Tiying a little worldreceiver on a pole and walking with it close to the ground would be
the same useless experiment!


We doesn't need it that dozens of people get made crazy, wild and hot for one of those
useless PDK & Co. cirucits until those who spread this "virus" have not absolutly exact
answers on what principle its based, under what conditions it works at least somehow
reliable and what sort of noise and other disturbing factors hinder the circuit to work.


Some here seems to be already totally addicted to this circuit!
"I must tinker I must tinker I must tinker, I am shure within a few days I will have solved
the whole problem and then I have a super real working Long Range Locator"!

No, you won't!

And all those who got already "successful" results should have documented very exactly
why and under what conditions this was, so we still can find out afterwards how much
self-delusion and other "rendering those circuits useless"-factors have been involved.


This whole PDK circuit tinkering hype here to me is like looking for what kind of special
wood or metal a dowsing-rod should have been until it "really" works. Hahahaha!
You must be a magician with paranormal abilities to get it work, this is no question
about sensitivity, experience or if the moon is full or not!

If I was "full" the last night I'm also hyper-sensitive the next morning and I still
can't find any springs with cool water with a doswing-rod!


So please stop thrashing this forum with PDK etc. threads and if you can't you're
only medicine will be to buy one of those Mineoro fraudster detectors for many
thousands bucks until you will be cured.

Don't you see it - there is absolutly no REAL PROGRESS in this PDK-stuff at all!

Its even vice versa - those earlier thought as working devices have been stopped
saling and producing because of unsatisfied customers.

It doesn't go upwards, no no - its going down to hell with those PDK circuits!


I must stop to write, it's too much wasted time for this crap!


I warned you and this must be good enough for now.

And if pro's like Qiaozhi couldn't find out any useful or reliable results with this PDK style
circuits any other person also can't - the difference to them is only that they have a
believe in "it must work" because they are obsessed of "it must work".

[Nicolas]

Originally Posted by nelson

I respect your comments about pdk, but at the same time, you don´t have rights to say stop posting about pdk, cause we all are free to post what ever you want about pdk and other similar devices.
If anyone wants to experiments something is ok and if you don´t like what others are posting, just quit and lave people to experiment free.
Regards
Nelson

The same response from my friend nelson
all free and what to do and what to share with others, must respect others.
Skeptics always come here and give advice without at least test a device.
and lose the time to tell us that we are sick.
but if you let me I can say that they are the sickest.

If someone does not believe in KDP & Co. it is easy to find another forum in his specialty and let others remain loony.
it's like a crazy hospital. if you stay long in this hospital you can be as they.

Stop please do not waste your time writing to us. and convince us.
Because we do experiments on land and testing and research every day. We lose our times and we are satisfied. Not only come just write here.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

And if pro's like Qiaozhi couldn't find out any useful or reliable results with this PDK style circuits any other person also can't - the difference to them is only that they have a believe in "it must work" because they are obsessed of "it must work".

Funfinder - Let the guys experiment. It's all part of the learning curve.

Dowsing, on the other hand, is fair game for bashing.

[hung]

Nicolas, Nelson and others. Solution is simple.
Create a google discussion group for LRLs and filter the participants.
Creating a google group is easy, it's got much more tools to work with than this forum and the best of all is that you people will get rid of pests like ozzy georgie, wharf, toto, dj, carlie and so on that turns posting in this 'forum' a real annoying experience.

With the creation of google groups you people will exchange schematics, plans, projects and will be in security to avoid any unwanted watcher to steal your projects and later sell them.
It's great. You will never go back to forums again, since you will select your own participants and the discussion will not go public at all.
Think about it.
Good luck.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by hung

Create a google discussion group for LRLs and filter the participants.

you people will exchange schematics, plans, projects a

.

Such "discussion group" will be your ideal hunting ground, no doubt.

How many "schematics, plans, projects" you have exchanged here with other members so far?

[Dave J.]

LRL forums/discussion-groups that keep "skeptics" out, always fail. The LRL fans say they want it but when they have it their game stops.

Look at TNet's LRL forum. Since the dreaded "skeptics" got bored with it and went back to their day jobs, just about all that's left is Signal's silly explanations of why he keeps at it even while unwittingly explaining that it doesn't work, and Art's comparatively sensible replies when Signal insists that Art is a dreaded "skeptic". I predict that even Art will give up on this, and all that will remain is Signal's soliloquies. Not because the dreaded "skeptics" drove the LRL fans out, the "skeptics" hardly ever post.

This very forum, the one where the action is, is hosted by........ drum roll!!!! a dreaded "skeptic"! This is where the LRL fans come! Strange but true!


* * * * * CAVEAT LECTOR!! * * * * *

There's a reason for this. Every wonder why? Can any non-"skeptics" figure out what that reason is?

* * * * worse yet, CAVEAT COGITATOR! * * * * * * *

When you get it figured out, you discover something about human nature that politicians and churchmen would much prefer that you didn't discover! There are times and places where if you say in public what you've discovered, the "authorities" will take you out of circulation.

You're probably better off not knowing, that's why I issued the warning. For your own safety, stop thinking NOW!

[nelson]

Not a bad idea

Just propose the name of the group and i will join it has i join this forum too
Regards
Nelson

Originally Posted by hung

Nicolas, Nelson and others. Solution is simple.
Create a google discussion group for LRLs and filter the participants.
Creating a google group is easy, it's got much more tools to work with than this forum and the best of all is that you people will get rid of pests like ozzy georgie, wharf, toto, dj, carlie and so on that turns posting in this 'forum' a real annoying experience.

With the creation of google groups you people will exchange schematics, plans, projects and will be in security to avoid any unwanted watcher to steal your projects and later sell them.
It's great. You will never go back to forums again, since you will select your own participants and the discussion will not go public at all.
Think about it.
Good luck.

[Fred]

Funfinder, I begin to wonder why, every time someone begins to post altruist and just technical information about his experiments, someone like you just appear here with a plain destructive post.
This whole forum is just about experiments and discussion about this kind of subject. If you disagree with it, just go to the other (non-lrl) forum, or anywhere else, instead of wasting your (so precious?) time and energy here posting long negative and provocative posts.

And, by the way, making a closed google group, filtering all critics is a nonsense except for the gurus (in the sect sense) that are seeking worship and a sentiment of power, instead of the real technical information and knowledge that they lack.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Fred

And, by the way, making a closed google group, filtering all critics is a nonsense except for the gurus (in the sect sense) that are seeking worship and a sentiment of power, instead of the real technical information and knowledge that they lack.

They could call it the "Hung Science Worship Group", where devotees could pay homage to the great Hung with his deep understanding of gold DNA.

[Nicolas]

Originally Posted by Fred

And, by the way, making a closed google group, filtering all critics is a nonsense except for the gurus (in the sect sense) that are seeking worship and a sentiment of power, instead of the real technical information and knowledge that they lack.

I am against private groups. we are all here to share our experiences and research to LRLs
So say you create a group mean all just selfish and depriving other learning.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

They could call it the "Hung Science Worship Group", where devotees could pay homage to the great Hung with his deep understanding of gold DNA.

Yes, and there is always someone willing to believe in dreams and follow you , even in the most bunkered and unfunded affirmations: In this resides the magic of internet, for some

Originally Posted by Nicolas

I am against private groups. we are all here to share our experiences and research to LRLs
So say you create a group mean all just selfish and depriving other learning.

Absolutely Nicolas, agree.
And if you want to keep your information for yourself, what is the point of creating a group ?

[hung]

Originally Posted by nelson

Not a bad idea

Just propose the name of the group and i will join it has i join this forum too
Regards
Nelson

This is not for me. I don't need it. This is for you and others who want to discuss LRLs, trade schematics and so on.
This without a doubt is the best approach because apart from gathering the same participants who are currently discussing here and filtering out the skeptics and the crap they produce and pollute, many of them just pretend they are skeptics and in reality are only waiting a good project to steal for commercial purposes. And you will never know about it.
Also, this is a public forum and all information on projects are seen by people who you don't even know who they are. Tough this forum became so unpopular these latest years that many good members told me they got tired and vanished . You know who they are.

I know you are a veteran aware of all this. But many new kids here are not, and easily become naive enough to only perceive this when it's too late.
So, in case the idea of discussing your projects in a closed group is not a possibility for many of you, at least consider presenting sensitive information in this private group.

Many years ago, Alonso's PD originated the RS forum requested by Esteban to avoid public view. But a few 'skepthics' here were allowed to participate. You don't imagine how 'cooperative' they became in order to get their hands on it . Fortunately their tentative of building did not work for them as for us and we decided to let this discussion fall in obscurity.

Due to my lack of time and also interest, when I have some spare time, I stop by this forum to have some fun reading posts and making some advices to help people as I am doing now. I use several LRLs in my huntings. Some I bought and some I built. They are all working perfectly and efficiently. My latest LRL is in testing phases. It's a beautiful device and I might show some pictures here later.
Keep the good work and all the best my friend.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

Many years ago, Alonso's PD originated the RS forum requested by Esteban to avoid public view. But a few 'skepthics' here were allowed to participate. You don't imagine how 'cooperative' they became in order to get their hands on it . Fortunately their tentative of building did not work for them as for us and we decided to let this discussion fall in obscurity.

The RS Forum still exists, and there are occasionally a few posts still made there. However, for the reasons gave by Fred, the discussions have stagnated due to lack of new input. You can only rehash the same old tired rhetoric a limited number of times, before everyone becomes disinterested and go off to do something more socially rewarding. That's why it is always preferable to keep the discussions in the open.

The RS Forum was originally created at the request of Esteban, as an area reserved exclusively for back-engineering and technical discussions of the Alonso PD. This request was made because there were a number of trouble makers visiting the site who were intent on high-jacking threads for their own enjoyment and creating a nuisance. At which point, any technical discussions were lost in the bickering. Without the RS Forum, the information derived on the inner workings of the Alonso PD would have been lost. But (of course) that's what you would have wanted. Since the LRL Forums have been moved to a dedicated URL, a lot of the problems have gone away, and posts have become more technical in nature. It has also been particularly useful that the purely electronic LRLs have a dedicated forum away from the dowsing and swinging handle nonsense.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by hung

skeptics in reality are only waiting a good project to steal for commercial purposes.

Yes, this is the main reason why skeptics are here.

They're just waiting for the technical details of how to install calculator on a plastic box of shoe polish.

You're right, LRL-competition of skeptics can you destroy all your fraudulent business.

[Nicolas]

Originally Posted by hung

Due to my lack of time and also interest, when I have some spare time, I stop by this forum to have some fun reading posts and making some advices to help people as I am doing now. I use several LRLs in my huntings. Some I bought and some I built. They are all working perfectly and efficiently. My latest LRL is in testing phases. It's a beautiful device and I might show some pictures here later.
Keep the good work and all the best my friend.

Thanks Hung and we are waiting your news finds and your practical device

[Funfinder]

Very good, at least some interesting discussion has started.

But its so childish and stupid always deviding the opinions regarding LRL into pro and contra
or as it is here into believers and skeptics.

There are no absolute positions involved in this case - the whole thing is just about true or false informations.

And the culprit of course are those who wanna "protect" or "bunker" any kind of needed informations.
In terms of law those already would get punishment because they are hindering the law-enforcements
to discover the truth and/or they are destroying evidence and spam this forum with false leads.

Of course seen under the real conditions what we have here this is just a bad "joke" or a childsplay!

But it can learn people how to fool others by creating wannabe random signal circuits
and sell them for a high price to naive or newbie treasure-hunters and this has to
be stopped!


If all those pseudo-detector-circuits hide and seek game players would play with
open cards the whole problem would have been solved since a long time!

Or call it the "technical details".

But no, they must cover and prohibit the information they have because of their
"special" interests. Like robbers who must run away through the chimney they
think nobody would see whats really going on, but of course analytical thinking
persons can see their "black noses", full of pseudo-scientific illusions!

We can see our eager "LRL-believers" as a punishment sent from god:
They are here to rob the money of the evil and greedy tomb-raiders!
Therefore of course they must keep their fraud-technology kept as a big secret,
otherwise those cheating-tricks wouldn't work no longer or just for the half time.


Some of course are totally innocent, they play in the liga of the betrayed betrayers,
comparable with disciples of the huge master of some sort of sect who tells all the time
that the community is on the perfect mission - to save the world or whatever.
Cheated sheeps which are following the big bad wolve without knowing it.


Infact the whole topic is so ridiculous simple:

"Look, here I have a stone and it can float in the air like a ballon!"

This is what they wanna tell us about their LRLs.

Nice and funny if it was a stone, but because it's some kind of "wired" electronic device
they think they can find all kind of holes and excuses so they must not prove how their
stone really is able to float!

Honestly seen those wannabe LRL circuits are only working and giving provable results
at some close range of "border distance region".

At good conditions it may be possible to detect a coin from 1,5m. Repeatable.

But only just because this device is tuned to the absolute critical maximum (completly
unusable under real treasure-hunting because of its instability) and the circuit is
totally built for detecting coins.

With a 50cm ferrite-coil and a high sensitive circuit the same result could be reached.


Just take a look at those "primitive" coils those hombrew LRLs are using!
Starting from this single point every expert will tell you that it can't work.

Finding treasure-caches from 100m distance with some 50 or 100 windings
and 5cm radius - this CAN'T WORK!

And the design:
Those circuits have no possibility for filtering real directionally the good and
important "anomalies" from the whole surrounding "soup" of unwanted noise!

Those pdk circuits are comparable with primitive compasses if it comes to
how sophisticated is the whole thing, just the compass really works reliable
as long as their are no huge distortions while the PDK not even works if their
almost zero distortions at all!


As long as this whole "PDK project" don't get newly started from scratch incl.
useful and logical correct information which is needed to built something working up
this kind of stuff is only lucrative to fraudsters, betrayers or betrayed treasure-dreamers!



btw. I would have no problem if the "LRL-Gurus" keep all of their secrets, IF!!!
they would have something real proven working.

I don't need to know exactly how a TV works only just to built it on my own.
Almost no people will do this, because we have mass-production which create
real working TVs for a reasonable price.

Instead of having real working products they're acting like voodoo-priests who
must seal away the secrets of the universe to the outside world!

Just like criminals they destroy the whole "information-line" so the victims
doesn't get the needed warnings beforewards and so they can be tricked easily!



Answer me one simple question:
Why those "LRL-secret-keepers, freaks or believers" wan't to keep away any useful
electronical info from a device that proven does not work?!

Of course they don't have to lose important patent-invention-creativity sources or
potential because therefore they first would need something technically acceptable!

If you go to the patent-pending-lawyer with your PDK circuit stuff he will laugh!
He will think: Yeah, another stupid one who created some sort of crap, but I don't
care as long as I get enough fee from this kind of dreamers.
And of course he knows that there never will be any mass-production or otherwise
with the patent-proof documents (sketches, circuits etc.) in his hand those guy
would get really big problems if he get's accussed for selling fraud-products.


Wake up, from your LRL-dreams. If you are not a true criminal who wanna make
the huge business with this kind of "random access signal detectors", just stop it.

Only criminals hide the secrets of notworking products from others!
So stop it if you are not a criminal!
Bag-thieves also don't cry out loud how tricky they are pick-pocking!

Or invent a real working LRL for your own until it is really of use and don't play
the big secret-chandling inventor here, just for making people curious for nothing!


Finding treasures with the already known PDK-circuits is the same effective
than pinning a map to the wall, throwing a darts-arrow on it and dig at that place!
Pure random coincidence - which of course "works", because at many places you
can find every few steps some kind of crap! And then the self-delusions starts,
because the PDK-user thinks it would have been some sort of "real signal". No.


The real problem is not that the "LRL-believers" should create their own forum or
google-group, it is they are seeking the public and wanna sell their stuff as some
sort of "real working" and "real serious" electronic device!

That's why they are seeking and looking for a playground which "could attract"
potential victims. The serious forum is needed as camouflage!

If their fourm would be clearly recognizable as one of those lunatic, esoterical, magical,
extraterrestric, ghostbelieving etc. hideouts of some sort of freaks no serious
treasure-hunter would go or buy from there.

Just imagine if the Mineoro-Website would be full of esoterical nonsens:
Nobody would be so stupid to give away thousands of bucks for creators of a product
where the website looks like as some kind of Harry Potter wonderland!


btw. it is not clever to brag with notworking LRLs on the internet!
Its like writing every day on facebook: "Shame on me, yesterday again I've got no Sex!!"

If you are a real man who has pride please don't look like a loser who desperatly is
trying to achieve something and all the time the result is just "nada".


You can proudly introduce the visitors and members of the LRLs forum here to your new LRL -
but AFTER if it is really working - not BEFORE.



The solution for peace and understanding would be so simple:
Providing real useful information in the area of LRL-detection instead of all kind of absurd fairy-tales...

[nelson]

BLA BLA BLA COMMETS WITH NO SENSE AT ALL.
I RECOMEND NOT TO ANSWER TO THIS COMMENTS
I PASS

DEAR LRL INVESTIGATORS AND EXPERIMENTERS, JUST CONTINUE YOUR JOB AND DON´T ANSWER TO NO SENSE COMMENTS, CAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO LET IT PASS

SORRY FUNFINDER OR MAY BE SADFINDER

Originally Posted by Funfinder

Very good, at least some interesting discussion has started.

But its so childish and stupid always deviding the opinions regarding LRL into pro and contra
or as it is here into believers and skeptics.

There are no absolute positions involved in this case - the whole thing is just about true or false informations.

And the culprit of course are those who wanna "protect" or "bunker" any kind of needed informations.
In terms of law those already would get punishment because they are hindering the law-enforcements
to discover the truth and/or they are destroying evidence and spam this forum with false leads.

Of course seen under the real conditions what we have here this is just a bad "joke" or a childsplay!

But it can learn people how to fool others by creating wannabe random signal circuits
and sell them for a high price to naive or newbie treasure-hunters and this has to
be stopped!


If all those pseudo-detector-circuits hide and seek game players would play with
open cards the whole problem would have been solved since a long time!

Or call it the "technical details".

But no, they must cover and prohibit the information they have because of their
"special" interests. Like robbers who must run away through the chimney they
think nobody would see whats really going on, but of course analytical thinking
persons can see their "black noses", full of pseudo-scientific illusions!

We can see our eager "LRL-believers" as a punishment sent from god:
They are here to rob the money of the evil and greedy tomb-raiders!
Therefore of course they must keep their fraud-technology kept as a big secret,
otherwise those cheating-tricks wouldn't work no longer or just for the half time.


Some of course are totally innocent, they play in the liga of the betrayed betrayers,
comparable with disciples of the huge master of some sort of sect who tells all the time
that the community is on the perfect mission - to save the world or whatever.
Cheated sheeps which are following the big bad wolve without knowing it.


Infact the whole topic is so ridiculous simple:

"Look, here I have a stone and it can float in the air like a ballon!"

This is what they wanna tell us about their LRLs.

Nice and funny if it was a stone, but because it's some kind of "wired" electronic device
they think they can find all kind of holes and excuses so they must not prove how their
stone really is able to float!

Honestly seen those wannabe LRL circuits are only working and giving provable results
at some close range of "border distance region".

At good conditions it may be possible to detect a coin from 1,5m. Repeatable.

But only just because this device is tuned to the absolute critical maximum (completly
unusable under real treasure-hunting because of its instability) and the circuit is
totally built for detecting coins.

With a 50cm ferrite-coil and a high sensitive circuit the same result could be reached.


Just take a look at those "primitive" coils those hombrew LRLs are using!
Starting from this single point every expert will tell you that it can't work.

Finding treasure-caches from 100m distance with some 50 or 100 windings
and 5cm radius - this CAN'T WORK!

And the design:
Those circuits have no possibility for filtering real directionally the good and
important "anomalies" from the whole surrounding "soup" of unwanted noise!

Those pdk circuits are comparable with primitive compasses if it comes to
how sophisticated is the whole thing, just the compass really works reliable
as long as their are no huge distortions while the PDK not even works if their
almost zero distortions at all!


As long as this whole "PDK project" don't get newly started from scratch incl.
useful and logical correct information which is needed to built something working up
this kind of stuff is only lucrative to fraudsters, betrayers or betrayed treasure-dreamers!



btw. I would have no problem if the "LRL-Gurus" keep all of their secrets, IF!!!
they would have something real proven working.

I don't need to know exactly how a TV works only just to built it on my own.
Almost no people will do this, because we have mass-production which create
real working TVs for a reasonable price.

Instead of having real working products they're acting like voodoo-priests who
must seal away the secrets of the universe to the outside world!

Just like criminals they destroy the whole "information-line" so the victims
doesn't get the needed warnings beforewards and so they can be tricked easily!



Answer me one simple question:
Why those "LRL-secret-keepers, freaks or believers" wan't to keep away any useful
electronical info from a device that proven does not work?!

Of course they don't have to lose important patent-invention-creativity sources or
potential because therefore they first would need something technically acceptable!

If you go to the patent-pending-lawyer with your PDK circuit stuff he will laugh!
He will think: Yeah, another stupid one who created some sort of crap, but I don't
care as long as I get enough fee from this kind of dreamers.
And of course he knows that there never will be any mass-production or otherwise
with the patent-proof documents (sketches, circuits etc.) in his hand those guy
would get really big problems if he get's accussed for selling fraud-products.


Wake up, from your LRL-dreams. If you are not a true criminal who wanna make
the huge business with this kind of "random access signal detectors", just stop it.

Only criminals hide the secrets of notworking products from others!
So stop it if you are not a criminal!
Bag-thieves also don't cry out loud how tricky they are pick-pocking!

Or invent a real working LRL for your own until it is really of use and don't play
the big secret-chandling inventor here, just for making people curious for nothing!


Finding treasures with the already known PDK-circuits is the same effective
than pinning a map to the wall, throwing a darts-arrow on it and dig at that place!
Pure random coincidence - which of course "works", because at many places you
can find every few steps some kind of crap! And then the self-delusions starts,
because the PDK-user thinks it would have been some sort of "real signal". No.


The real problem is not that the "LRL-believers" should create their own forum or
google-group, it is they are seeking the public and wanna sell their stuff as some
sort of "real working" and "real serious" electronic device!

That's why they are seeking and looking for a playground which "could attract"
potential victims. The serious forum is needed as camouflage!

If their fourm would be clearly recognizable as one of those lunatic, esoterical, magical,
extraterrestric, ghostbelieving etc. hideouts of some sort of freaks no serious
treasure-hunter would go or buy from there.

Just imagine if the Mineoro-Website would be full of esoterical nonsens:
Nobody would be so stupid to give away thousands of bucks for creators of a product
where the website looks like as some kind of Harry Potter wonderland!


btw. it is not clever to brag with notworking LRLs on the internet!
Its like writing every day on facebook: "Shame on me, yesterday again I've got no Sex!!"

If you are a real man who has pride please don't look like a loser who desperatly is
trying to achieve something and all the time the result is just "nada".


You can proudly introduce the visitors and members of the LRLs forum here to your new LRL -
but AFTER if it is really working - not BEFORE.



The solution for peace and understanding would be so simple:
Providing real useful information in the area of LRL-detection instead of all kind of absurd fairy-tales...

[Fred]

Originally Posted by hung

(...) the same participants who are currently discussing here and filtering out the skeptics and the crap they produce and pollute,(...)

How do you know that? Is the universal Truth in you ? Are you a supreme judge ? Or did you develop a unilateral skeptic mind at some time to it ?

Originally Posted by hung

many of them just pretend they are skeptics and in reality are only waiting a good project to steal for commercial purposes.

Well, even considering it true, what is your problem with that ? Is it bad for YOUR business? Personally i don´t care, as long as we all learn something, so why do you ?

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Fred

- [question posed to Hung] - Well, even considering it true, what is your problem with that ? Is it bad for YOUR business? Personally i don´t care, as long as we all learn something, so why do you ?

Over the years, Hung has contributed absolutely zero input to the technical discussions here. Even in the RS Forum (where he was briefly a member) his presence was devoted to spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt), and maliciously muddying the waters with false information, such as that related to the switch wiring on the Alonso PD. Not to mention a faked video of a home-made LRL, that was recorded in his bedroom, despite repeatedly telling Carl that LRL testing indoors was a complete no-no, and all tests should be done in the field.

His problem is clearly one of self-interest, and concern that his house of cards may someday collapse.

[Dell Winders]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

Very good, at least some interesting discussion has started.

But its so childish and stupid always deviding the opinions regarding LRL into pro and contra
or as it is here into believers and skeptics.

There are no absolute positions involved in this case - the whole thing is just about true or false informations.

And the culprit of course are those who wanna "protect" or "bunker" any kind of needed informations.
In terms of law those already would get punishment because they are hindering the law-enforcements
to discover the truth and/or they are destroying evidence and spam this forum with false leads.

Of course seen under the real conditions what we have here this is just a bad "joke" or a childsplay!

But it can learn people how to fool others by creating wannabe random signal circuits
and sell them for a high price to naive or newbie treasure-hunters and this has to
be stopped!


If all those pseudo-detector-circuits hide and seek game players would play with
open cards the whole problem would have been solved since a long time!

Or call it the "technical details".

But no, they must cover and prohibit the information they have because of their
"special" interests. Like robbers who must run away through the chimney they
think nobody would see whats really going on, but of course analytical thinking
persons can see their "black noses", full of pseudo-scientific illusions!

We can see our eager "LRL-believers" as a punishment sent from god:
They are here to rob the money of the evil and greedy tomb-raiders!
Therefore of course they must keep their fraud-technology kept as a big secret,
otherwise those cheating-tricks wouldn't work no longer or just for the half time.


Some of course are totally innocent, they play in the liga of the betrayed betrayers,
comparable with disciples of the huge master of some sort of sect who tells all the time
that the community is on the perfect mission - to save the world or whatever.
Cheated sheeps which are following the big bad wolve without knowing it.


Infact the whole topic is so ridiculous simple:

"Look, here I have a stone and it can float in the air like a ballon!"

This is what they wanna tell us about their LRLs.

Nice and funny if it was a stone, but because it's some kind of "wired" electronic device
they think they can find all kind of holes and excuses so they must not prove how their
stone really is able to float!

Honestly seen those wannabe LRL circuits are only working and giving provable results
at some close range of "border distance region".

At good conditions it may be possible to detect a coin from 1,5m. Repeatable.

But only just because this device is tuned to the absolute critical maximum (completly
unusable under real treasure-hunting because of its instability) and the circuit is
totally built for detecting coins.

With a 50cm ferrite-coil and a high sensitive circuit the same result could be reached.


Just take a look at those "primitive" coils those hombrew LRLs are using!
Starting from this single point every expert will tell you that it can't work.

Finding treasure-caches from 100m distance with some 50 or 100 windings
and 5cm radius - this CAN'T WORK!

And the design:
Those circuits have no possibility for filtering real directionally the good and
important "anomalies" from the whole surrounding "soup" of unwanted noise!

Those pdk circuits are comparable with primitive compasses if it comes to
how sophisticated is the whole thing, just the compass really works reliable
as long as their are no huge distortions while the PDK not even works if their
almost zero distortions at all!


As long as this whole "PDK project" don't get newly started from scratch incl.
useful and logical correct information which is needed to built something working up
this kind of stuff is only lucrative to fraudsters, betrayers or betrayed treasure-dreamers!



btw. I would have no problem if the "LRL-Gurus" keep all of their secrets, IF!!!
they would have something real proven working.

I don't need to know exactly how a TV works only just to built it on my own.
Almost no people will do this, because we have mass-production which create
real working TVs for a reasonable price.

Instead of having real working products they're acting like voodoo-priests who
must seal away the secrets of the universe to the outside world!

Just like criminals they destroy the whole "information-line" so the victims
doesn't get the needed warnings beforewards and so they can be tricked easily!



Answer me one simple question:
Why those "LRL-secret-keepers, freaks or believers" wan't to keep away any useful
electronical info from a device that proven does not work?!

Of course they don't have to lose important patent-invention-creativity sources or
potential because therefore they first would need something technically acceptable!

If you go to the patent-pending-lawyer with your PDK circuit stuff he will laugh!
He will think: Yeah, another stupid one who created some sort of crap, but I don't
care as long as I get enough fee from this kind of dreamers.
And of course he knows that there never will be any mass-production or otherwise
with the patent-proof documents (sketches, circuits etc.) in his hand those guy
would get really big problems if he get's accussed for selling fraud-products.


Wake up, from your LRL-dreams. If you are not a true criminal who wanna make
the huge business with this kind of "random access signal detectors", just stop it.

Only criminals hide the secrets of notworking products from others!
So stop it if you are not a criminal!
Bag-thieves also don't cry out loud how tricky they are pick-pocking!

Or invent a real working LRL for your own until it is really of use and don't play
the big secret-chandling inventor here, just for making people curious for nothing!


Finding treasures with the already known PDK-circuits is the same effective
than pinning a map to the wall, throwing a darts-arrow on it and dig at that place!
Pure random coincidence - which of course "works", because at many places you
can find every few steps some kind of crap! And then the self-delusions starts,
because the PDK-user thinks it would have been some sort of "real signal". No.


The real problem is not that the "LRL-believers" should create their own forum or
google-group, it is they are seeking the public and wanna sell their stuff as some
sort of "real working" and "real serious" electronic device!

That's why they are seeking and looking for a playground which "could attract"
potential victims. The serious forum is needed as camouflage!

If their fourm would be clearly recognizable as one of those lunatic, esoterical, magical,
extraterrestric, ghostbelieving etc. hideouts of some sort of freaks no serious
treasure-hunter would go or buy from there.

Just imagine if the Mineoro-Website would be full of esoterical nonsens:
Nobody would be so stupid to give away thousands of bucks for creators of a product
where the website looks like as some kind of Harry Potter wonderland!


btw. it is not clever to brag with notworking LRLs on the internet!
Its like writing every day on facebook: "Shame on me, yesterday again I've got no Sex!!"

If you are a real man who has pride please don't look like a loser who desperatly is
trying to achieve something and all the time the result is just "nada".


You can proudly introduce the visitors and members of the LRLs forum here to your new LRL -
but AFTER if it is really working - not BEFORE.



The solution for peace and understanding would be so simple:
Providing real useful information in the area of LRL-detection instead of all kind of absurd fairy-tales...

Being a Professional Treasure Hunter/Salvor, I can only afford to use tools that prove to work, regardless of the manufacturer. I've field tested, or used most of the Geophysical, and Treasure hunting tools that have been on the market. 40 years of field experience does not qualify me as an electronic expert, but it does qualify me to know what works in the field, and what does not.

My motto of, "What has already been done, can be done" continues to prove true regardless of Ego's, or Beliefs.

Here Sir, is a simple, working, (subject to favorable operating conditions) discriminating LRL, that I and others have used. It works according to Harmonic Induction principles, or as qiaozhi, mistakenly refers to as "Dowsing" Dell

[Nicolas]

Renato ROMERO

Str. Luisetti 12
CUMIANA (ITALY)

I was born in 1965 and live in a little city, CUMIANA, of 6'000 peoples;
position 44° 57' 24" north / 7° 25' 11" east, in N-W Italy, 35 km SW from TURIN.
I live in the middle of the country, far from industrial sites. It is a quiet site to listen to natural radio signals.
I begun listening to VLF radio some years ago, in 1993, with the NASA-INSPIRE project. I continue doing different radio activities, all in frequencies below 22 kHz. I'm LWCA member too.
This web site has been written in english (at least in my intentions and with big difficulty) to reach the greatest number of interested people; sorry in advance for the mistakes.
WHY THIS WEB SITE?
Listening the natural origin radio signals is a very suggestive experience with its particular charm.
As you point a binnacle in a star night observing huge quantities of shining stars lost in the infinity of the space. Its true: it's just burning gas, but it can make us dream and think.
Here we are not talking about esotherism: the adjectives suggestive mysterious and unknown are used in the scientific use only, in order to comment real phenomena: by mysterious is meant for instance a signal emitted by a physical phenomena we donut know yet.
In RBW22 we don't call nor spirits nor aliens: even if we respect every idea about the matter is apparently notorious that VLF would be a terrible way for communicating with spirits or aliens.
Maybe is easier to have betters result in the research of alien signals with a TV UHF antenna rather then with a dipole di terra of 150 m. This don't mean VLF are not suggestive.
Matters treated in this site are not developed in cathedratic way, nor this site want to do school, we leave to scientists and teachers their jobs. HTML structure is very easy and from principal menu is possible to have a complete vision of everything is contained in the site in order to make the web surfing as easier as possible.
In the site you could find several little mistakes: formulas, circuits, frequencies and language mistakes I have done all over this document. The Open Lab experience consists on the possibility of experience and work condivision, without the fear of who writes a book or with the fear of being judged by some experts.
Even without big technological supplies, as the laboratory very expensive devices during expensive researches, is possible to realize very interesting radio scientific experiences to share and to comparate with the field experts. One year life of RBW22 showed.
Thanks for cooperation.




http://www.longrangelocators.com/forums/showthread.php?p=148419#post148419

[Funfinder]

@ Nicolas

Of course this is still cooperation, Nicolas, for technical interested people like you -
otherwise I wouldn't write here at all.

But it is also punishment and huge critizism to all who wanna play false games here
and rob innocent naive people precious ressources, be it money, time or whatever.
Instead of writing here I could enjoy my life but I wanna show some engagement -
this is also for the benefit of the treasure-hunting community itself which can't
afford to waste his hard earned money for "illusional things".

And I wanna support Carls basic intention who brought already enough light into
sinister LRL-pandora boxes - for our all sake, don't forget this.


@ Nelson

It is sad that you are so deep into your LRL thing that you won't accept the opinions
of others anymore. Is it so hard to understand that the public wants something
reasonable, working and technical understandable instead any "mystical tales"?

Your comment was just a proof of ignorance. Someone also can't discuss with fanatic believers
of some sort of "religions" - in fact many just consisting of 1000 year old fairy-tales, too.



@ Dell Winders

You may be a really good person seen from the heart with honest intentions and a true
will for working technical things out but seems something goes wrong big time - I have no idea what.

So please try to explain to us where do you see the difference in your work compared
to Garrett or other "real working MD producers"?

Now you have the "solar-wind"-excuse and before you may had others.

Please Dell, ask yourself:
Until what point you can provide any serious proof? Does your detector(s) find something
at least from 1meter under provable conditions? And what arguments do you have if you
have to explain that it will work under good conditions at much better distance?

What I wanna say to you and to all:



@ all

Give us a starting point! A STARTING POINT, like where you start a race!

If you LRL-convinced people don't even have such a "minimal requirements needed detection
possibility" how you can assume we would accept your stories of much larger distances?!

If I can't move a wheel which is fixed on some axes not just 1mm because everything
is completly rusted how should I assume it will be able turning around like hell?



And by the way - just as a warning to everyone here:

If people wanna rip off others there are 2 very simple choices:

1) Declaring sh*t as gold
2) "receiving" (better: exploiting) actual ressources for a so called better future!

Paying church-taxes per instance: Work now hard and give the earned money away for a
paradisic afterlife!

Or pumping up usual ground-water and declare it as luxury mineral water!
...too bad, you have been tricked... but as a rich millionaire you have enough cash anyway...


Similar methods too many wanna-be scoundrels apply to sell their LRLs:

"Pay thousands of bucks NOW for this super real working detector and earn LATER the
huge treasures with it!"
Yeah, absolutly for shure.... Who wants to be the victim?


Before one single LRL should get the permission for being sold the user should have
2 weeks of "try before you buy" and if he is not happy with it, no matter why,
the full money must given back! This is the only method to stop all those dirty
developments in the LRL scene once and for all.

Nobody needs a stove pipe where only the owner itself can see through it the moon
like with a huge telescope!

Can't you understand this, dear LRL convinced?

Is this too much for you?
Do you know the fairy-tale:

The Emperor's New Clothes
(Hans Christian Andersen)

http://www.maerchen.net/classic/a-k_kleider.htm

eng translated link:
http://translate.google.com/translat...-k_kleider.htm


Where only the weavers and the betrayed emperor could see the shiny fantastic clothes?
Read it, its a perfect analogy to the nonsens that we are facing here since many years!



And the most guilty culprit of course are persons like hung who pretend to sit directly
on the source of "special information" and provide nothing than bullsh*t here.




@ All you others LRL convinced electronical interested persons

Don't you understand that for shure it will be very hard for anyone to believe what
you wanna tell us if even already the "main LRL specialists" like hung create such a mess?



I ask again:
Where is your real provable starting point?
Where are your LRL-basics?
Something ultra-simple like the lamp circuit (inbetween of a battery).


Or described even better:
Where do you think is your fundament if it comes to real working LRL-circuits ?? ? ? ?? ?



By Alonso? By hung? At South-America somewhere deep in the jungle?


by the way: All those rain-forest destroyers there should face a second bloody
conquistadores invasion - would be the best solution to them....




What makes you better than those mentioned "LRL experts" who told already nothing
than "invincible clothes stories" here?!


If you are working serious and scientific and even if you got just basic but real provable
results everything is fine.


And how can you think that Alonso himself couldn't improve his own 20 years old circuit
much better (or has tried it already) than all you guy now wanna do?


See it simple: Something that doesn't work can't get improved!


So better focus your eyes on something real useful.
If you remain fixed to this infamous Alonso circuit (because it costed already enough people
a fortune! ) all you do is like trying to create 1 meter sparks with a piezo-lighter - it also can't work!
(ok, maybe it works with a huge additional coil, but you wouldn't see the ultra-thin flash anymore)



Where is your small but at least really working technological LRL starting point ?!


I ask it again and again... ask it yourself, if you can...


This is the minimum we have to know.

[Nicolas]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

@ Nicolas

Of course this is still cooperation, Nicolas, for technical interested people like you -
otherwise I wouldn't write here at all.

But it is also punishment and huge critizism to all who wanna play false games here
and rob innocent naive people precious ressources, be it money, time or whatever.
Instead of writing here I could enjoy my life but I wanna show some engagement -
this is also for the benefit of the treasure-hunting community itself which can't
afford to waste his hard earned money for "illusional things".

And I wanna support Carls basic intention who brought already enough light into
sinister LRL-pandora boxes - for our all sake, don't forget this.

Thanks Funfinder for your advice for me

Originally Posted by Funfinder

@ all

Before one single LRL should get the permission for being sold the user should have
2 weeks of "try before you buy" and if he is not happy with it, no matter why,
the full money must given back! This is the only method to stop all those dirty
developments in the LRL scene once and for all.

Nobody needs a stove pipe where only the owner itself can see through it the moon
like with a huge telescope!

Can't you understand this, dear LRL convinced?

I m agree with this Proposal .... I sell by this way

[nelson]

I accept opinions but not people that claims to have the reason about LRL and trying to stop others from build and experiment with LRL. That is my problem and i m shure others have the same opinions, so don´t waste your time trying to stop others to keep experimenting. You are just destroying what others bealive to be tru. So far experimentation will continue what ever your comments will be

@ Nelson

It is sad that you are so deep into your LRL thing that you won't accept the opinions
of others anymore. Is it so hard to understand that the public wants something
reasonable, working and technical understandable instead any "mystical tales"?

Your comment was just a proof of ignorance. Someone also can't discuss with fanatic believers
of some sort of "religions" - in fact many just consisting of 1000 year old fairy-tales, too.