Solve the circuit...

[Carl-NC]

Below is a real, honest-to-God circuit used in a commercial LRL. Let's see who can figure out what this circuit does, and what LRL company sold it?

I don't make this stuff up... don't have to.

[Dell Winders]

Carl, if you already know, what's the point, unless you are trying to run a game show here?

If the circuit works, what's the point?

These childish question games you try to play on your viewers appears you are trying to save face and getting desperate for credibility. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

Below is a real, honest-to-God circuit used in a commercial LRL. Let's see who can figure out what this circuit does, and what LRL company sold it?

I don't make this stuff up... don't have to.

Nice.....
It's a battery discharging circuit!!

Let's see if I'm correct - you press the switch and the LED turns on, but only for a moment, because the relay then shorts out the battery. Although I am wondering why there's a jack socket across the switch. Is this a remote switch facility?

Looks perfect for long range detection.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Carl, if you already know, what's the point, unless you are trying to run a game show here?

If the circuit works, what's the point?

These childish question games you try to play on your viewers appears you are trying to save face and getting desperate for credibility. Dell

Whoops! Was it one of your's then?

[Dell Winders]

Whoops! Was it one of your's then?

Is that an assumption? Sorry, this is Carl's, question & inference game for intellectual players. I don't qualify. I am not a scientific pretender. So far, looks like you are playing by Carl's rules of presumption & assumption substituting guesses for fact.

But since you choose presumption, here's a clue about me that may help you win the game. I don't know anything about electronics, and I can't draw that good. We will just have to wait for little Carl, to finish playing another of his silly little Skeptic cult games, to learn his answer. Good luck,Qiaozhi! Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Is that an assumption? Sorry, this is Carl's, question & inference game for intellectual players. I don't qualify. I am not a scientific pretender. So far, looks like you are playing by Carl's rules of presumption & assumption substituting guesses for fact.

But since you choose presumption, here's a clue about me that may help you win the game. I don't know anything about electronics, and I can't draw that good. We will just have to wait for little Carl, to finish playing another of his silly little Skeptic cult games, to learn his answer. Good luck,Qiaozhi! Dell

Sorry Dell. I wasn't trying to upset you - but you did appear to take offensive rather quickly. And it wasn't a matter of assumption or presumption - more like implication.
If this is one of your's, then you need to fire your EE.

As we all know, there are many intentional scams to trap the unwary and - as they say - "once bitten, twice shy". Chinese people would say this slightly differently - "The man who has once been bitten by a snake, fears every piece of rope in the roadway." - same meaning.

[Dell Winders]

Qiaozhi, I don't share the Skeptic cult philosophy of "guilty by presumption". I don't have Carl's, ability to look at a photograph, or product, and declare it to be garbage, Dowsing, or prejudicely proclaim the manufacturer as a fraud.

From my perspective and the years of attacks on my honesty, Carl, is trying to maintain favor with his peers and is perpetrating his own fraud as a scientific pretender in support of the amazing lieing Randi, and the skeptic cult agenda.

I personally don't adhere to the Chinese pholosphy you spoke of either. I have been bitten in the head and leg by a seven foot alligator, and twice in the hand & arm by an 8 foot asian crocodile. I have had several altercations with large sharks in open water. This does not make me fear alligators, crocodiles and sharks. On the contrary, it provided me first hand opportunities for learning, and respect for their wonderful abilities.

Do you think Carl's allegations, and question & inference game, is a reaction to his having been scammed, and the once bitten, twice shy philosophy? Is he fearful of folks telling the truth? Dell

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha....!!!!!!!!!!! !

This was ivconic's post some time ago...
"...About LRL....hmmm...in my 20 and more years dealing
with metal detectors and prospecting I have been seen
more LRL lunatics,mountebanks and charlatans than
U can imagine.None of them ever persuade...convince
me ever in that thing called LRL.For example let's
take the "famous" Electroscope series of LRL's...
...Infront of my eyes nobody ever
find anything with that method in last 20 years!
Those devices and methods are pure SF!I am very pissed off
when see advertisments on those devices and their prices
some 600,900....2000$ !!!!!Only idiot can buy that!
Just one story:
Last summer I met an dowsing idiot Who claimed that
he can "fill" a metal in the ground any depth and distance
with a telephone cable rolled on his head!!!Even one very
good constructor(I liked his project till than)beleived
in this story!I also met another dowsing idiot Who used
some plant root(with "magical power")to dowse!!!
************************************************** ***********
* But those two idiots are less idiots than buyers of LRL's,*
* because they saved money, at least!(telephone cable and *
* stupid plant are not expensive). *
************************************************** ***********
I also dowse...with Garret GTI2500,Pulsestar II,Cscope 1220
and my handmade and very magical Classic III !
Regards folks and sorry on my emotional offset....
I guess i have to change a telephone cable
on my head...it leaks!
..........Huh!....."

Now back to Dell's latest "bijou" !
I can cleary see what happened infact:
That crocodile,aligator and snake were hungry,but when tried to
have proper lunch, realized that it was not tastefull at all!?
Magic,miracled LRL energy irradiated you Dell, so many times in
the past, so your taste became awful for those animals!!!!
Lucky for you - empty belly for them !
If not else, at least LRL can save your life somewhen in the
future!
"....I personally don't adhere to the Chinese pholosphy ...."
Very bad for you! With that kind of attitude you are devoided of
great deal of human wisdom! But that already showed here on this forum,
in your posts....

[Dell Winders]

Robert, it sounds like you are probably far above everyone elses intellectual level for participation in Carl's, Question & Inference game. Participants must feel humbled by your intellectual wisdom. I am in awe. Dell

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Carl, if you already know, what's the point, unless you are trying to run a game show here?

If the circuit works, what's the point?

These childish question games you try to play on your viewers appears you are trying to save face and getting desperate for credibility. Dell

I know that electronics is not your forte, but perhaps you could take a shot at what the circuit does*, and who sold it.

- Carl

* "If the circuit works" is relative to what the circuit was supposed to do in the first place... I never stated what it was supposed to do--namely, because I don't know what it was supposed to do--I only asked what it does. If you know what it was supposed to do, then you are free to reply with that information as well, or instead.

[Dell Winders]

Carl, it's just a silly looking drawing with some squiggles and lines.I am not a mind reader, and I have no idea what it means to you, but since this is coming from you,I really don't care. The logical solution would be for you to ask whoever made it what it is for? I can't speak for other people.

I have already voiced my complaint about your repeated questioning in the thread you designated for that purpose, but to no avail. My option will now
be to reply to those who are open minded and unprejudiced, or not reply at all.

There doesn't seem to be much interest among the intellectuals to play your guessing game either, so it looks like you will be left to play with yourself. Enjoy! Dell

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

The logical solution would be for you to ask whoever made it what it is for? I can't speak for other people.

OK, Dell... what is it for?

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I personally don't adhere to the Chinese pholosphy you spoke of either. I have been bitten in the head and leg by a seven foot alligator, and twice in the hand & arm by an 8 foot asian crocodile. I have had several altercations with large sharks in open water. This does not make me fear alligators, crocodiles and sharks. On the contrary, it provided me first hand opportunities for learning, and respect for their wonderful abilities.

Do you think Carl's allegations, and question & inference game, is a reaction to his having been scammed, and the once bitten, twice shy philosophy? Is he fearful of folks telling the truth? Dell

My intention was only to point out that people usually learn from their mistakes. So, if you get bitten in the head by a crocodile, then you think twice about doing it again. The same is true for LRLs. There are several people on this forum who've had a bad firsthand experience with an LRL. Nothing as dangerous as a crocodile (of course) but not too good for the wallet. In this case they feel scammed, and quite rightly so. As you are well aware, I believe that dowsing and LRLs are complete nonsense, and you believe otherwise. That's fine, and I'm ok with that. It really doesn't bother me in the slightest if someone thinks that a telephone cable wrapped around their head can help them to detect treasure, and good luck to them. As they say - "Even a blind monkey will occassionally find a nut".

All Carl is asking is whether you know what the circuit is supposed to do. As you are not an electronics engineer then you are at a disadvantage in not being able to understand a schematic diagram. As an EE, I can see that this circuit does nothing except flash an LED before shorting out the battery. If it is indeed an LRL device (an this is the implication here) then the only thing this circuit can detect is a lot of dead batteries.

If it's not one of your's, then you do not need to get upset with Carl.

[Dell Winders]

All Carl is asking is whether you know what the circuit is supposed to do. As you are not an electronics engineer then you are at a disadvantage in not being able to understand a schematic diagram.

Qiaozhi, Obviously Carl, is the person who started this guess the drawing game to prove something to fellow EE's to gain support for his judgemental prejudice. Only two people so far have allowed themselves to be suckered in. Now it appears that this implication by inference game you are playing is directed toward Dell, and I have no idea what Carl, or you, are talking about. So, don't even bother trying to con me into to answering questions about a drawing I didn't make, and know nothing about in a game that Carl, created. Direct your lame advice to Carl, not to me.

Carl, claims he owns two products built by me, which he claims publicly as "Garbage". So, according to your rationale,

There are several people on this forum who've had a bad firsthand experience with an LRL.

So, has Carl, had a bad first hand exxperience with any products he has purchased from me? Is that his reason for making derrogatory inferences and allegations against me, or could there be a more sinister personal agenda?

His rationale for his claims against me is that none of my products have ever passed his, or Randi's, so called challenge test. Although I have repeatedly admitted that me, or the products I build cannot pass his or Randi's test. Yet he persists that I or anyone using my products must pass their test in order to prove to the world they work as I claim, other wise they are free to publicly brand Dell, and his products as a fraud, and his customers as being niave, or liars. I do not accept lightly this form of blackmail, and cover up that is being practiced.

I accept the fact that there are people who share Carl's mentality, and that I am here among some of them, but members of this kangaroo court will eventually have to accept the fact my customers have provided me with absolutely no complaints about the products I have built for them, and that they are made fully aware of the limitations, BEFORE they purchase from me. There is no fraud, or deception on my part, and never has been. Just honesty based on my own field experience.

If any one is running a scam here, it is Carl, not me. It is his game you are playing, not mine. Dell

Sorry, this is Carl's, question & inference game for intellectual players. I don't qualify. I am not a scientific pretender. So far, looks like you are playing by Carl's rules of presumption & assumption substituting guesses for fact.

But since you choose presumption, here's a clue about me that may help you win the game. I don't know anything about electronics, and I can't draw that good. We will just have to wait for little Carl, to finish playing another of his silly little Skeptic cult games, to learn his answer. Good luck,Qiaozhi! Dell

Qiaozhi, I don't share the Skeptic cult philosophy of "guilty by presumption". I don't have Carl's, ability to look at a photograph, or product, and declare it to be garbage, Dowsing, or prejudicely proclaim the manufacturer as a fraud.

From my perspective and the years of attacks on my honesty, Carl, is trying to maintain favor with his peers and is perpetrating his own fraud as a scientific pretender in support of the amazing lieing Randi, and the skeptic cult agenda.]

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Dell,

As far as I recall, no-one has called you a liar or a cheat, or anything similar, although Carl has expressed some personal opinions on your products. Likewise I have read some people slagging off the more (shall we say) traditional detectors from Garrett, Tesoro, Whites, etc., but non of these manufacturers have become irate with these postings. If the circuit has no connection with yourself then I fail to understand why you are so upset. :confused:
You've said youself that you didn't make the drawing and know nothing about it. So I'm confused by your outburst...

[Marv]

It is a head phone tester. Ha Ha

[Tim Williams]

Carl I have to say you have my attention!

Tim

[Carl-NC]

Well, time to pull back the curtain...

Qiaozhi nailed the first question... I call this a "Rapid Discharge Oscillator." When the pushbutton is pressed, the coil is energized, which puts a dead short across the battery. Due to the internal resistance of the battery and the near-zero resistance of everything else, the battery voltage will drop to zero, releasing the relay, and repeating the cycle.

So the relay will oscillate, and quickly discharge the battery. I measured a couple of 9v alkalines, and the short-circuit current was about 3 amps, so this circuit will discharge one probably in 15-20 minutes. No doubt there is significant arcing on the relay contacts, so this circuit has a real risk of getting welded stuck in the shorted position, and causing a dangerous meltdown of the whole thing.

The headphone jack is where the dowsing rods plug in, so if you simply touch them together, the Rapid Discharge Oscillator is activated.

And Qiaozhi nailed the second question... with a little help from Dell. Yes, this is the little accessory box that was sold by Dell along with one of his LRLs. It was sent to me on loan.

Now, the real question...

"What is the purpose of this circuit?"

That is, of course, a question for Dell. Now I'm sure that when Dell sold this device, he didn't say, "Here's a little black box that makes a cool buzzing sound when you press this button." Instead, it might have been, "Here is a device you plug the dowsing rods into, and when you touch them together, it does such-and-such."

It is the such-and-such I'm interested in.

Dell, is this device garbage, or does it serve a Useful Purpose?

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

When you field tested the unit, did you experience a mild shock, or tingling in your hands when you walked through the "field" of the signal line leading to the target? Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

When you field tested the unit, did you experience a mild shock, or tingling in your hands when you walked through the "field" of the signal line leading to the target? Dell

Ah! Now I see what plugs into the jack socket, it begins to make some "sense".
It provides the dowser with a kinaesthetic response when the rods cross over and touch. I suppose it does enable you to look where your going instead of staring at the rods. Saves accidently walking into a crocodile (sorry - couldn't resist it!)

[Jim]

I guess the loser in this “game” is the poor bloke who gave up his hard earned cash for this gizmo

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

When you field tested the unit, did you experience a mild shock, or tingling in your hands when you walked through the "field" of the signal line leading to the target? Dell

No, not at all.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Ah! Now I see what plugs into the jack socket, it begins to make some "sense".
It provides the dowser with a kinaesthetic response when the rods cross over and touch. I suppose it does enable you to look where your going instead of staring at the rods. Saves accidently walking into a crocodile (sorry - couldn't resist it!)

Could be the purpose, but a later incarnation of this circuit, the "Magnetic Wave Guide Receiver" (see the VR800 report), has no buzzer. An LED lights up when you touch the rods together. I guess you could strap it over one eye...

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders
The logical solution would be for you to ask whoever made it what it is for? I can't speak for other people.

OK, Dell... what is it for?

Carl, according to your description of the device, I am not the manufacturer. It would be dishonest of me to accept credit.

But, for you to intentionally infer that I am the manufacturer is to lie.

I see by the mocking that a few others share your mentality for promoting deceptions to keep you from having to apologize. Dell

[ivconic]

* But those two i..... are less i..... than buyers of LRL's,*
* because they saved money, at least!(telephone cable and *
* stupid plant are not expensive). *
The main point is not to waste money on frauds!
Dell i'll be very sorry if you understand me wrong....I am not claiming that you
are fraud.....at all! We all trying to survive these hard times, earn some money....If we all closer i'll call all of you to some pub and have beer with you!
rergards