Bob Fitzgerald LRL Devices

[kaveh]

What do you think about the devices that Bob Fitzgerald made?
These devices try to create a signal line between the device and the intended target, which work based on frequency in the Hertz range for small dimensions, kilohertz for medium dimensions and MHz for large dimensions. The signal line that is created between the device and the target is followed by the seeker to reach the desired target.
Does anyone have practical experience with these devices and how well do they match what Bob Fitzgerald says?

[Pahom]

Originally Posted by kaveh

What do you think about the devices that Bob Fitzgerald made?
These devices try to create a signal line between the device and the intended target, which work based on frequency in the Hertz range for small dimensions, kilohertz for medium dimensions and MHz for large dimensions. The signal line that is created between the device and the target is followed by the seeker to reach the desired target.
Does anyone have practical experience with these devices and how well do they match what Bob Fitzgerald says?

Post a link to your devices. It is not clear what devices we are talking about.

[Mike(Mont)]

I bought a used Mini Eliminator II a while back. Got it cheap. I replaced the frequency adjust control but it still was unstable, especially at low frequencies. I replaced the chip and it still was unstable. It does work and gives a decent signal. It's an old design. I modified it by replacing the chip with a DDS frequency generator. Now it is stable but not sure if it works as original. I even think the TRN works. But I have not used it in the field on real treasure hunt. None of this type of locators will work if you cannot use L-rods. Add to this, the more bells and whistles means it is more complicated and less easy to use. So the weak link is definitely the L-rods. It's easy to psyche yourself out and get all flustered.Honestly, it took me years to learn and I still struggle at times. I would highly recommend you spend as little money as possible until you are sure you can do it. I like the Eliminator e-120 sold by GDI-Detectors for $250 euros. You might find a dealer near your area to avoid the currency conversion issue. And remember Fitzgerald will not accept returns and you chances or reselling it on an auctions site are right about zero. If you can sell it for half price you will be lucky, but I doubt it. Most people who attempt to learn L-rods fail. It's not that it's that difficult, just that most people cannot stop thinking about it when they use the rods and this influences the outcome negatively. Sounds easy but it must be human nature to "cheat". Definitely avoid almost everything on ebay--Chinese garbage not even worth it if you get it for free. BTW, I paid $100 for the Mini Eliminator II used.

[Mike(Mont)]

Also there are times when locators will not work, mainly due to solar magnetic interference. And if you live in an area with high air pollution, may not work until cold front blows in clean air. So this makes learning even more difficult. Sometime the interference only lasts several minutes, other times it may be days. It can be done but most people do not persevere.

As for not thinking about it, do you recall the story about Lott's wife? SHe was told not to look back but she cheated and looked back and turned into a pillar of salt. Easy way is to pick an object or a spot out in front of you and look at it as a distraction to take your mind off the search. I like to examine the object or spot, just try to keep my mind on it. This is how Zen works.

I know somebody who has the Si-Go. He could not get it to work for him. I’m sure it was an L-rod issue.

Hope this helps.

[Mike(Mont)]

I'm not saying his locators don't work, the used one I bought was old and worn out. The price of a new one is way too expensive in my opinion. And you have to learn to use the L-rods. But the same thing holds for any locator that has a swinging rod, no matter what the price. I had been messing with an L-rod for years before I build an MFD (molecular frequency discriminator) I learned the basics without a huge amount of practice. But don't get the idea it is easy. Anybody says that, walk away fast. I have a device that does nt use rods and even it is not all that easy to use.

[kaveh]

Originally Posted by Pahom

Post a link to your devices. It is not clear what devices we are talking about.

The working principles of all his devices are similar. The difference is in the number of frequencies that the device has.

[kaveh]

This is the internal board of the PDF device. A number of oscillators based on the number of frequencies used for exploration. Then a Frequency Divider to change the shape of the output wave in various tests that the device has.
In general, they use frequency with positive Phase for initial exploration of devices and use negative Phase in signal output for tests like TRN. The duty cycle is 50% in all stages.

[kaveh]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

I bought a used Mini Eliminator II a while back. Got it cheap. I replaced the frequency adjust control but it still was unstable, especially at low frequencies. I replaced the chip and it still was unstable. It does work and gives a decent signal. It's an old design. I modified it by replacing the chip with a DDS frequency generator. Now it is stable but not sure if it works as original. I even think the TRN works. But I have not used it in the field on real treasure hunt. None of this type of locators will work if you cannot use L-rods. Add to this, the more bells and whistles means it is more complicated and less easy to use. So the weak link is definitely the L-rods. It's easy to psyche yourself out and get all flustered.Honestly, it took me years to learn and I still struggle at times. I would highly recommend you spend as little money as possible until you are sure you can do it. I like the Eliminator e-120 sold by GDI-Detectors for $250 euros. You might find a dealer near your area to avoid the currency conversion issue. And remember Fitzgerald will not accept returns and you chances or reselling it on an auctions site are right about zero. If you can sell it for half price you will be lucky, but I doubt it. Most people who attempt to learn L-rods fail. It's not that it's that difficult, just that most people cannot stop thinking about it when they use the rods and this influences the outcome negatively. Sounds easy but it must be human nature to "cheat". Definitely avoid almost everything on ebay--Chinese garbage not even worth it if you get it for free. BTW, I paid $100 for the Mini Eliminator II used.

The TRN test takes the signal completely to the negative phase. I measured the output of the circuit with an oscilloscope, the peak-to-peak is -0.251v to -5v.

This is the Mini Eliminator II schematic:



But it seems that the schematic is not complete and has defects.

If I want to use the generator signal, do I need to use the ground probe? Or is it enough to connect the signal output of the generator to an aerial antenna?



In the picture above, the negative of the circuit is connected to the ground by a probe, and the positive output is connected to an antenna.

[kaveh]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

I'm not saying his locators don't work, the used one I bought was old and worn out. The price of a new one is way too expensive in my opinion. And you have to learn to use the L-rods. But the same thing holds for any locator that has a swinging rod, no matter what the price. I had been messing with an L-rod for years before I build an MFD (molecular frequency discriminator) I learned the basics without a huge amount of practice. But don't get the idea it is easy. Anybody says that, walk away fast. I have a device that does nt use rods and even it is not all that easy to use.

I will be thankful if explaining more about the MFD you build. What is the success rate of your MFD? If possible, send a photo of it.

[Pahom]

Originally Posted by kaveh

The working principles of all his devices are similar. The difference is in the number of frequencies that the device has.

Thank you! Now it became clear what the conversation was about. I have never tried to work with these types of devices.

[kaveh]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

I bought a used Mini Eliminator II a while back. Got it cheap. I replaced the frequency adjust control but it still was unstable, especially at low frequencies. I replaced the chip and it still was unstable. It does work and gives a decent signal. It's an old design. I modified it by replacing the chip with a DDS frequency generator. Now it is stable but not sure if it works as original.

Mini Eliminator II uses an old IC 8038 to generate the frequency and the output is not very accurate.

[Mike(Mont)]

The first one was simply a frequency generator with aground probe that had a coil on it. Somebody said that it cuts off the signal, but really you don?t want too much power or you get more false signals. It was only one wire. Learning the rods is a big subject I will have to prepare before I start on this. But mainly pick a spot out I front of you and look at it and do not look at the rods because it is easy to fixate on them. You want to be aware of your body response? like maybe a tingle feeling in the palm of you hand. If using one rod the opposite hand acts like a receiver, sort of like a satellite dish to pick up the signal. Gotta stay very loose in the shoulders. I call the feeling the “ionic buzz” sort of like a flickering neon light that is malfunctioning.

[Mike(Mont)]

I jumped ahead of myself already. Two rods, don't look at the rods. If you are using only one rod, and doing a sweep, you need to watch the rod. You can still use only one rod when circling the transmitter searching for the signal line. Remember the signal line IS the discrimination. You don't get that good discrimination when doing a sweep, even with an a hand-held electronc box. It takes a few minutes for the signal line to develop. It doesn't work the same with the electronic hand-held box and there is no way to cross the signal line even if one develops. That's why I don't like the hand-helds.

One you find a signal line, stand there with the rods crossed and wait to see how long they stay crossed. If it's only thirty seconds, it's something small and insignificant. When holding two rods and circling the Tx keep them angled down slightly and turn your wrists into each other a tiny amount. You can even keep the rod tips a little bit closer than exactly parallel with each other. It’s a lot like learning how to swing a golf club. You have to practice until you can do it without thinking.When you pick a spot out in front of your to look at in front of you, keep all your awareness on your body response. One day it will all fall into place. Also, it's much better to wear natural clothing. SYnthetics will lower the ion count surrounding you. And don't forget to breathe. Some people get even more tensed up with the rods. You have to evaluate your situation. It's all too easy to get negative. I suspect narcissists will have an extremely difficult time learning. ANd when you get one success, don't go patting yourself on the back and think you are some kind of genius. Soon you will fall,and it's easier to fall from a lower height. Don't work too long at it--twenty minute max in one session. If you happen to be standing on the signal line when you start to walk, the rods with give an immediate response the moment you lift your foot off the ground. It might even be better to use a visible test target and learn to get the rods to swing closed when you cross the signal line. Remeber, don't think about anything except maybe the spot you are looking at and the body response. Typically people hold the rods back and don't realize it. As one guy says, just let the rods exist in your hands. As much as I an say this over and over, peopole will still fixate on the rods. This is like puttung glue on them. Don't practice when you are upset. SOunds funny but people who think highly of themselves are the poorest rod users. They think they are better than others and should be able to learn in twenty minutes. So be humble and don’t make unreasonable expectations. Just like a boxer spends five weeks preparing for the next fight, allow at least three weeks before you venture out into the field. And that's assuming you are hitting your test target three out of four times.Try to learn to enjoy the practice sessions instead of being miserable beause you can develop bad habits that are going to be hard to correct.

[Mike(Mont)]

geotech1.com click on LRL's, click on Reports, Dell Winders VR-800 has a schematic.Be careful as this has enough power to kill you. To increase your sensitivity, rub the palms of your hands together for 60 seconds. Then start about a foot (20cm) apart and move them towards each other and try to feel something there in between your palms. Maybe pressure or a tingle feeling. If you are good you can feel the signal line by just holding your hand over it. I like to stand in line with the signal line and hold my arms out. Sometimes i do better than with the rods.Another one is to turn the water faucet on and surround the flow with your palms, do not touch the water. Maybe a minute or two. Another only works for a short time, get your hands wet or have a jar of saltwater and pumice. Use a cloth to rub into the palms of your hands.

All this is worthless if you can't keep your mind out of the way. And I don’t mean to harp on this, but negativity is the real killer. It is essential to overcome any negativity. I know how difficult it is because there are times when the locator will not work, NO equipment will work. Use a visible test target to see if you get a signal line. Even this is difficult to do without wishful thinking (You must quiet the mind). I can testify it is hard to learn on your own, but it can be done. For me, the hardest thing was to use a visible target. I always wanted to "get a response" and many times I would force the rods to close, no matter what. Well, that's enough to get you started. Too much info is hard to digest,like learning a golf swing--so many things to consider.

BTW, you will be tested to see if you succumb to the gross negativity in the VR-800 article. LOL Or you can buy a cheap DDS frequency generator and attach an amplifier. This link gives you a bit of the principles how LRL's seem to be able to do the impossible. http://amasci.com/tesla/tmistk.html#google_vignette Hope this helps.

[Mike(Mont)]

Originally Posted by kaveh

The TRN test takes the signal completely to the negative phase. I measured the output of the circuit with an oscilloscope, the peak-to-peak is -0.251v to -5v.

This is the Mini Eliminator II schematic:
Attachment 21072
Attachment 21073

But it seems that the schematic is not complete and has defects.

If I want to use the generator signal, do I need to use the ground probe? Or is it enough to connect the signal output of the generator to an aerial antenna?

Attachment 21074

In the picture above, the negative of the circuit is connected to the ground by a probe, and the positive output is connected to an antenna.

You said you tested the output. Do you own the MIni Eliminator II? I asked Bob about the stability issue. He said the frequency does not have to be perfectly stable. I did measure the target size ohms and it was about 10Mohms at the "Small" setting, 20 at the medium setting and 30 at the large setting. ALthough I have not done much with this device, I was in my yard and my dog could sense the signal line. He lay down on it. I turned on the TRN and after a few minutes he got up and moved over to where the actual target was. No joke!!! I think dog can hear the signal. One time I had one of those bird listening dish amplifier. I turned it to a transmitter and I could plainly hear the signal. Strange! And speaking about the signal line, the flux lines coming off the transmitter bundle up (gather together) right on the line to the target. When walking across the target line it is like the Lenz effect (where a magnet moving across a conductor produces an opposing magnetic field). This is how the rods move, I think. When crossing the signal line I feel like I am being squeezed though a small opening, and when I get through, it's like it pushes me. As for the sensation, I can feel it in my pulse. I can't explain it any better than that.

[Mike(Mont)]

You can use the M.E. II without ground probe and just one L-rod. But the target size and TRN need a ground probe.

[kaveh]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

You said you tested the output. Do you own the MIni Eliminator II? I asked Bob about the stability issue. He said the frequency does not have to be perfectly stable. I did measure the target size ohms and it was about 10Mohms at the "Small" setting, 20 at the medium setting and 30 at the large setting. ALthough I have not done much with this device, I was in my yard and my dog could sense the signal line. He lay down on it. I turned on the TRN and after a few minutes he got up and moved over to where the actual target was. No joke!!! I think dog can hear the signal. One time I had one of those bird listening dish amplifier. I turned it to a transmitter and I could plainly hear the signal. Strange! And speaking about the signal line, the flux lines coming off the transmitter bundle up (gather together) right on the line to the target. When walking across the target line it is like the Lenz effect (where a magnet moving across a conductor produces an opposing magnetic field). This is how the rods move, I think. When crossing the signal line I feel like I am being squeezed though a small opening, and when I get through, it's like it pushes me. As for the sensation, I can feel it in my pulse. I can't explain it any better than that.

I tested the trasure navigator output. It does not have a very high output. Millivolt is enough. About 0.2 to 0.5 volts.
It is a good dog. I have never used animals to find metals underground. But I've heard a lot of talk about training animals to find metals underground.

[Mike(Mont)]

I never trained my dog--he just learned on his own. He would hang out with me in the yard and I noticed that he was always in the way. Then I realized he was on the signal line. I think it must feel good for them. I've heard cats are just the opposite--they go to spot with bad energy. LOL Yes, powerful signal causes problems. You see on the M.E.II the target size grounds out the antenna signal through the ground probe and the TRN. Add in that weird "Christmas Tree" inductors and it looks like a RC high pass filter. Maybe it filters out some harmonics? One phrase/term they use "Advanced harmonics distribution". What I think is the signal comes out the antenna and that Christmas tree catches that signal pulse and produces a magnetic field. The info on the M.E.II say New circuitry to eliminate hot spots and mineralization, but that is the same as on the PDF 1000 which came out later, so they had time to come up with that phrase AHD. But is obviously the same circuit.

[Mike(Mont)]

Bob said he had a Labrador Retriever that would immediatly run to the spot he had something buried, the instant he turned on the transmitter.

[Mike(Mont)]

I got this wrong--at least target size works without ground probe, I didn't check TRN. Instructions say grouns probe is recommended but you can carry the unit in your pocket or backpack. I just tested it and Med. cuts out a 10k gold ring, even from short distance.

[Mike(Mont)]

As I said I have not spent much time with the Mini Eliminator II. I did modify it bypassing the 8038 chip at pin #9 with a cheap DDS frequency generator. I pulled the chip out. For the DDS power supply I used one of those power banks for charging cellphone, but I realize I could have just come off the 7805 power supply, maybe. I still have the two nine volt batteries installed. I've been messing with this unit in my yard the past few days and I have to say I am starting to fall in love with it. LOL I compared it to the Eliminator e-120 and as much as I like it, I have to admit the M.E.II has a much better signal. I have a pair of the gold-plated L-rods From GDI-Detectors and even without the belt-mounted power supply, I get a tingle in both hands all along the rod handles. I made some posts quite while back about the modifications I made and then I said I don't think it is correct, but it seems to work great! Yeah, it's a lot of money for a new one, nearly $2000. I don't know if I would pay that much but it probably is worth it. Even without a ground probe it works pretty good. It's possible Fitzgerald has some used units, or maybe he knows someone looking to sell. Probably easier to learn the rods, too.

[Mike(Mont)]

It's possible the "Si-Go" might be able to be modified with DDS generator. I don't know, but I think so. It cost about half as much as the Mini Eliminator II, and maybe again you can find a used one. It doesn't have as much power. As I said, I know a guy who has/had? one and he counldn't get it to work, so I don't know much about it. A lot of money and you need to be able to use the L-rods. Anyway, just my thoughts for this morning.

[Mike(Mont)]

Originally Posted by kaveh

I tested the trasure navigator output. It does not have a very high output. Millivolt is enough. About 0.2 to 0.5 volts.
It is a good dog. I have never used animals to find metals underground. But I've heard a lot of talk about training animals to find metals underground.

I've seen the dog rub his face on the ground right over the signal line. It must feel good to them. Of course I've seen dogs rub their face in horse manure, too. LOL Usually they drop their shoulder down and rub in the "perfume". But this was the side of his face.

[Mike(Mont)]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

It's possible the "Si-Go" might be able to be modified with DDS generator. I don't know, but I think so. It cost about half as much as the Mini Eliminator II, and maybe again you can find a used one. It doesn't have as much power. As I said, I know a guy who has/had? one and he counldn't get it to work, so I don't know much about it. A lot of money and you need to be able to use the L-rods. Anyway, just my thoughts for this morning.

On second thought I don't think the Si-Go is the same circuitry. M.E.II says "New circuitry to eliminate hot spots and mineralization" so pretty sure it is not the same.

[kaveh]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

On second thought I don't think the Si-Go is the same circuitry. M.E.II says "New circuitry to eliminate hot spots and mineralization" so pretty sure it is not the same.

All Fitzgerald products work the same way. It has made changes in the products only because of selling products and diversifying.
In my experience they work, but not flawlessly and we expect every point we track to be on target without fail.
Compared to other detectors that have been made, it has a higher percentage of success and their error is also less, and they can be used as a reliable exploration tool.