Zahori

[Esteban]

Zahori means the person with ability to find water with a rod.

Remember Carlos post only the schematic because three pages is heavy for the forum.

I repost in thread Confused on detecting noble metals at great distances...

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ghlight=ZAHORI

Read all the thread.

This schematic I have in Spanish, and always claim for the version in English. Maybe, nobody has here. This device was designed for to find water. In this German article (the original is the German magazine Elektor) assume that water in movement below the surface produce ionic interchanging. There are a Russian version about another title, a copy of original Elektor magazine of 1987 in the thread Remote Sensing Diagram:

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ghlight=ZAHORI

Original web page http://radiotech.by.ru/Shematic_PCB.../biolokator.htm
(doesn't work?)

Compare the both schematics, are the same! But the Russian has the title "Biolokator".

For to control a pronunciate arrives of ions, the 555 discharge the antenna. The article said that at major oscillation in 555, more sensitive is the device. The 15 nF cap is a kind of "memory", good quality requires here.

No synthetic clothes, no build in plastic.

At the end, the article saids that is possible to detect another type o field, include radiactivity (in theory).

I has done many modification for to convert simple and usable device.

Later modifications.

You can download complete Zahori article (include the Russian article) from:

http://www.mytempdir.com/686740

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Estaban

This schematic I have in Spanish, and always claim for the version in English. Maybe, nobody has here.

I have translated about half the Spanish version of the Zahori article into English. When it is finished I will post it here.

[Esteban]

Mods. and photo of the device, in wood, no plastic, maybe metal.

The rest is your job...

[Esteban]

Qiaozhi, thanks a lot. Post mods and pic of kind of device.

[Esteban]

Sorry, forgot erase pin 9 to -

[Esteban]

But in 1988 publish for positive and negative ions, looks that the zahori. Article in Spanish. You can replace the plate by antenna.

[Esteban]

Variation: output via cap.

[Qiaozhi]

As promised, I've translated the Spanish Zahori article into English.
I tried to put the scanned pictures and text into one document, but it's too big a file to upload to this forum.

At the moment I am busy on another project, but I'd like to build this sometime in the future.

As Chinese people say: Zou ma kan hua (ride horse look flower)
In other words: Gain a superficial understanding.

The only way to gain an understanding of these "so-called" LRLs is to build one yourself. It's a certain way to conclude whether there is any truth here or just fraud and self-delusion. Maybe we should get off our horses and take a closer look. There's been a lot of discussion on this forum about posting schematics and building one yourself. So here's your chance. If there's even the slightest possibility that ionic detection is a way of finding gold or silver, then this circuit should do it.

Enjoy!

[Esteban]

Quiaozhi, thanks, great job. Now, many persons will understand how operates this electronic rod via ionization.

In this same thread, the modifications.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Sorry, forgot erase pin 9 to -

My comments on your modifications:

1. Replacing the 2M2 + 100K resistor on the timing circuit with a single 2M2.
This is claimed to increase the sensitivity. However, according to the article, the greatest sensitivity is achieved with the lowest pulse rate. In the original circuit there are two ranges (selected by S1) for either a range of approximately 10Hz-100Hz or 100Hz-1kHz.
10Hz is supposed to be the most sensitive.

2. The 10k pot connected to ES3 determines both the voltage potential and polarity of the antenna plate. In this way the plate is charged either positively or negatively to attract negative or positive ions accordingly.
I thought this was already on the outside panel.

3. Three telescopic antennas?
I'm not sure what this is supposed to achieve. Is this supposed to guide ions onto the antenna, or something?

4. Works bad with 5V regulators.
There should be no difference in using regulators with this design, except perhaps some increased stability. Perhaps we should investigate this further.

[hunterq3]

Qiaozhi:thanks ! great ! As Chinese people say: ding ,ni de youxiang shi ?
wo de shi hunterq3@163.com

[Esteban]

1. Yes, I use 100 hZ fix freq.

2. The 10 k provides as a threshold, and works as a sensibility control, no only in the way to attract positive or negative ions, mainly for to equalize the voltage.

3. The both laterals at 0 V and the center antenna collects the voltage from the buried metals. Remember: always I work via the electric field around the good conductive buried metals. So, I collect the voltage with the three antennas. The laterals actuates as a guide, or so, you can use a aluminium dish as Ivconic's project.

4. Yes, I have low sensitivity with regulators, or in other words, at more low voltage works better. Hope 3 volts is better?

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

4. Yes, I have low sensitivity with regulators, or in other words, at more low voltage works better. Hope 3 volts is better?

I wonder if this has something to do with the 4066 bilateral switches. It seems that the propagation delay depends on the supply voltage. Since the 555 timer toggles these switches, there may be some critical timing path here that reduces sensitivity of the sample and hold circuit.

[Esteban]

Another important detail: the 4066 must be good quality, good level audio output. There are some low quality, no recommended.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hunterq3

Qiaozhi:thanks ! great ! As Chinese people say: ding ,ni de youxiang shi ?
wo de shi hunterq3@163.com

Jintian wanshang wo gei ni dianzi youjian. Ni kan kan.
Zaijian.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Another important detail: the 4066 must be good quality, good level audio output. There are some low quality, no recommended.

Looks like this may be the source of the power supply problem then?

[Esteban]

No, put socket and try, and some Korean brands don't work well at the epoch I start with it, 10 years ago, so decide use Toshiba or any other Japanese brand as Hitachi, the both works fine, good level audio in the 3130 output.

Use Japanese because at the epoch I start found it in my market, no USA 4066 found, but now yes.

3130 is very obsolete, but is very sensitive and also very delicate, solder must be to ground.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

No, put socket and try, and some Korean brands don't work well at the epoch I start with it, 10 years ago, so decide use Toshiba or any other Japanese brand as Hitachi, the both works fine, good level audio in the 3130 output.

Use Japanese because at the epoch I start found it in my market, no USA 4066 found, but now yes.

3130 is very obsolete, but is very sensitive and also very delicate, solder must be to ground.

The CA3130E is a mosfet input, CMOS output opamp. You should be able to replace this with a CA3140E which is a mosfet input, bipolar output device.
I would also think that either an LF353N, OPA2604AP, TL072CN or TL082CN would be ok. The one with the lowest noise figure is the OPA2604AP at 10nV/Hz.

[Esteban]

Yes... but suspect the 3130 is more sensitive. If not, why they has been designed the Zahori at the time there are many more modern ICs, with less problem of offset?

Redesign the Zahori with low noise figure demands also film resistor resistance 1%.

[detectoman]

esteban, hola me puedes decir las aplicaciones de ese detector ionico su alcance sus limitaciones su estabilidad etc y tus experiencias con el

un saludo y hasta pronto

detectoman mexico

:confused:
Zahori is ment to be a ionic detection device, very old german project....
Already been seen some years ago in Elektor......What the hell is it usable in
metal detecting subject for!? Already known the fact that burried items do not
product any ions at all!

How many posts on such obsolete subject !?
Is that all man can find here on that subject!?

[Esteban]

Robert: I'm curious what version do you have, English, German, French? Evident, no as Zahori, this is a Spanish word. Or maybe you saw the first time here...

Elektor CD from 1997/98....
German issue, i always purchase german issuess already....
Also there are editions on French,English and i guess Spanish (if you say so)...
regards

[Esteban]

What the hell is it usable in
metal detecting subject for!? Already known the fact that burried items do not product any ions at all!

Hard head, RObert! Always I show you the path... electric field around conductive metals! And the electric field can be detecable by the Zahori, with the corrects modifications. Also, Qiaozhi translate the text of the Zahori. As I see, nobody saw nothing in this thread. Read this part:

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Yes... but suspect the 3130 is more sensitive. If not, why they has been designed the Zahori at the time there are many more modern ICs, with less problem of offset?

Redesign the Zahori with low noise figure demands also film resistor resistance 1%.

The main difference I can see between the CA3130 and the CA3140 is the input current and the equivalent input noise voltage.
CA3130 has Ii = 5pA @ 15V and 2pA @ 5V, and en = 23uV.
CA3140 has Ii = 10pA, and en = 48uV.
Not sure whether this would make a significant difference in this application. When you're talking about pA, there are plenty of other sources of interference to swamp these minute values of current.