rangertell examiner field trials

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Theseus

After that, the sucker may as well use a bent coat hanger, or random digging; they'll find just as much treasure.

Actually the coat hanger has the advantage over random digging in that it helps the user´s subconscious to point over a "probable" target location.
Thus the persistence of LRL´s and dowsing business.
IMHO

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Fred

Actually the coat hanger has the advantage over random digging in that it helps the user´s subconscious to point over a "probable" target location.
Thus the persistence of LRL´s and dowsing business.
IMHO

I don't have any actual statistics, but probably there's been about as much treasure found by accident as with a dowsing contraption. Seems like there is always the odd article about somebody digging in their garden and coming up with a little fruit jar cache, secreted by a previous owner.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Fred

Actually the coat hanger has the advantage over random digging in that it helps the user´s subconscious to point over a "probable" target location.
Thus the persistence of LRL´s and dowsing business.
IMHO

I agree, and I've long said that dowsing rods are nothing but an "intuition indicator."

[Mike(Mont)]

In case you don't know, I own an old model Examiner. I have found gold with it. One time in a city park I found a gold stick pin from about 75 yards had it dug up in about five minutes. The pinpoint was off about 15 inches. Other times I have dug junk metals. I did some modifications, removed the handle, just use the bare metal rod squeezed between my finger tips to feel the torque. It's sensitive. You want to watch out if you adjust the variable cap screw. You don't want to turn it more than about one-third turn. I haven't used it in the field for several years.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

In case you don't know, I own an old model Examiner. I have found gold with it. One time in a city park I found a gold stick pin from about 75 yards had it dug up in about five minutes. The pinpoint was off about 15 inches. Other times I have dug junk metals. I did some modifications, removed the handle, just use the bare metal rod squeezed between my finger tips to feel the torque. It's sensitive. You want to watch out if you adjust the variable cap screw. You don't want to turn it more than about one-third turn. I haven't used it in the field for several years.

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Now we just need to wait for RangerTell, Hung, Dell, .....

..... and (of course) Mike Mont .....

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

..... etc., to tell you that you either have a faulty unit (seems to be a lot of these around) , you're left-handed, not concentrating / meditating / breathing properly, there is interference from micro-gold, or a multitude of other excuses.

In other words - the usual purveyors of useless LRL / dowsing equipment ... and their customer.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

You want to watch out if you adjust the variable cap screw. You don't want to turn it more than about one-third turn. I haven't used it in the field for several years.

Why? What will happen if you adjust the cap screw, say a whole turn?

Gullible, technically-challenged and apparently brainwashed as well.

Mike, do you have any idea what you sound like?

[Mike(Mont)]

My Examiner looks different than the one Carl has. It's not that you will damage the unit if you turn the cap too much, but you risk "losing your place" and anything much more that a third of a turn is going to give you near zero value anyway--at least on the one I have. Of course this won't matter if you can't use the locator in the first place, but it's not a good feeling when you forget which way you turned it.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

My Examiner looks different than the one Carl has. It's not that you will damage the unit if you turn the cap too much, but you risk "losing your place" and anything much more that a third of a turn is going to give you near zero value anyway--at least on the one I have. Of course this won't matter if you can't use the locator in the first place, but it's not a good feeling when you forget which way you turned it.

"...give you near zero value..." ???

It's a little hard to understand how an ideomotor-driven device can have any value at all, zero or not.

Hopefully, J_Player understands what you are referring to, and it will be beneficial information for him.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

My Examiner looks different than the one Carl has. It's not that you will damage the unit if you turn the cap too much, but you risk "losing your place" and anything much more that a third of a turn is going to give you near zero value anyway--at least on the one I have. Of course this won't matter if you can't use the locator in the first place, but it's not a good feeling when you forget which way you turned it.

"...won't matter if you can't use the locator in the first place..." ???

That's interesting; I was under the impression that the locator functioned and worked regardless of who the operator was, or what their mindset was because it worked completely as a function of the internal circuitry and the keycodes plugged into the calculator.

Mike, you make it sound like it is akin to an ordinary dowsing rod, which is driven by and influenced by the operator's mind (conscious and subconscious).

Again, I'm sure J_Player will eventually get to the bottom of this matter.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Theseus

"...give you near zero value..." ???

It's a little hard to understand how an ideomotor-driven device can have any value at all, zero or not.

Hopefully, J_Player understands what you are referring to, and it will be beneficial information for him.

Hi Theseus,
I understand what Mike(Mont) is saying. The rep from the factory warned in an email not to use the setscrew on bottom except as a last resort. He said if I turn it more than a hair at a time, I may lose my place and not be able to restore the setting that I had originally. This is part of the reason why I expect it will take some time to make an adjustment. Before making any adjustments on this setscrew, I will first need to try several different "gold frequency" calculator values while trying all the settings I can make on the top dial. Then if that doesn't work, I can make some very tiny adjustments on the bottom setscrew and repeat the adjustments with the top dial and different "gold calculator values".

The rain here has stopped. I expect I will be able to make these adjustments outdoors in a couple of days when the mud dries. While I have been waiting, I did open the calculator to see the back where the batteries are changed. It is definitely not the same as my Casio fx-300ES. The circuit board is different, and it has a 2-cell supply that supplies 3 VDC to the processor, where my Casio has only one cell and a solar panel that supply 1.5 VDC to the processor. Just looking at the backs of these two calculators, I can see there are a few extra components on my Casio which probably have to do with the lower voltage supply. My Casio also has more conductors running toward the display than the one sent with the Examiner. The Casio can display up to 15 digits in the top line, while the other only displays 12. I am thinking the two calculators probably don't use the same processor, but they both seem to provide the same functions at the display while showing fewer of the digits.

What does it all mean?
To start with, different processors use different routines to drive dedicated displays that are different sizes. This means the pulse train that occurs in each of these calculators will not be the same, even though the numbers displayed have the same mathematical value. If we consider the Examiner uses the signals that are derived from the pulse trains inside the calculator, then there are two significant differences:

1. The pulse trains are different. Thus, any signal that is inductively coupled to the Examiner will be small a small pulse that can be detected inductively when a calculator clock edge rises or falls. The Casio cannot have the same pulse train regardless what number or function is entered, because part of it's routine is to drive three more digits than the other calculator.

2. The Casio is running at 1/2 the voltage as the other calculator. This means any Casio clock edges have less voltage to send out a signal that can be inductively detected. Picking up an induced signal from clock edges depends on the rise or fall time of the pulses inside the calculator, as well as the amount of current, (which is driven by the voltage). In essence, you pick up induced clock noise strongest when there is a fast movement of current through a conductor that momentarily moves to discharge a from a stored location. And this generally happens strongest and fastest when the voltage is higher. If this is the usual Cmos technology used in low-voltage calculators, the two-cell calculator will have significantly faster clock edges which should produce clock noise that can be detected inductively at a farther distance.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

In case you don't know, I own an old model Examiner. I have found gold with it.

I haven't used it in the field for several years.

Why not? Your big mistake, Mike. Can you imagine how many gold finding you missing during this "several years"?

Or maybe gold you found are not genuine? There are many virtual findings between LRL worshipers.

[Mike(Mont)]

J_P, I suggest you practice outdoors away from electrical lines. One of the problems learning to use a locator is it is easy to fixate on the rod when you should be using a soft focus and putting your awareness on the search area. Some people who think they are so intelligent cannot understand this. They want to be in control. When you stare at the rod and use intense concentration, you are overpowering it. Like I said, there is a fine line between gold fever and skepticism. You have to learn to let the rod work without trying to interfere with your mind or your body. Some people might do better with two hands or stabilizing the elbow or forearm with the opposite hand so your arm is somewhat relaxed. Or maybe just support your elbow with you hip. And remember to keep your arm and upper body all as one unit, don't try to freehand it. Go slow, some say move the rod tip three inches per second, no more. Be smooth, don't let the rod bounce more than about a quarter inch. This isn't easy to do and still stay relaxed and not fixate on it.

[Fred]

Mike(Mont), since you have acquired such a high level of knowledge, did you try to dowse without a rod?
I mean, you could concentrate enough to mentally visualise a non-existing L-rod.
That way you could make the perfect instrument, no impaired by any mechanical issues, and you could be a pioneer in "virtual instrument dowsing".

I am thinking about patenting the idea, before Hung steals it...

[Mike(Mont)]

I can find a signal line without rods. I hold my arms out from my sides and relax my wrists so my hands point down somewhat. I call it the scarecrow stance. Then I walk around the transmitter (arms parallel to signal line) until I feel the psychic electricity. I can't pinpoint the target with this method, just the signal line. I use the Revelation Locator Rod. There is no other rod that has as low stiction. It has an extremely low start-up torque threshold that borders on the infinite. Of course it's not, but it's imperceptible.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

J_P, I suggest you practice outdoors away from electrical lines. One of the problems learning to use a locator is it is easy to fixate on the rod when you should be using a soft focus and putting your awareness on the search area. Some people who think they are so intelligent cannot understand this. They want to be in control. When you stare at the rod and use intense concentration, you are overpowering it. Like I said, there is a fine line between gold fever and skepticism. You have to learn to let the rod work without trying to interfere with your mind or your body. Some people might do better with two hands or stabilizing the elbow or forearm with the opposite hand so your arm is somewhat relaxed. Or maybe just support your elbow with you hip. And remember to keep your arm and upper body all as one unit, don't try to freehand it. Go slow, some say move the rod tip three inches per second, no more. Be smooth, don't let the rod bounce more than about a quarter inch. This isn't easy to do and still stay relaxed and not fixate on it.

Holy Molly... Mike, you are making it sound like the Examiner is powered by the error-prone ideomotor effect;

intense concentration
skepticism
interfere with your mind or body
stabilizing the elbow
support your elbow

Isn't the whole intent of the Examiner that it contains special inductive circuitry and special key-codes entered into the calculator for discrimination properties? That way, it works without the need for an ideomotor effect, and works regardless of what the operator is concentrating on, is left-handed, they are skeptical, or any of those other things you mentioned above?

If J_P needs to be informed about all the stuff you mentioned above (in order to insure success), I suppose those same admonishments are in the Manual of Operation, and he will read them there. If he does not find them in the Manual, I guess he really needn't concern himself with them.

Unless of course..... the Examiner he is testing is just another dowsing contraption.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Fred

Mike(Mont), since you have acquired such a high level of knowledge, did you try to dowse without a rod?
I mean, you could concentrate enough to mentally visualise a non-existing L-rod.
That way you could make the perfect instrument, no impaired by any mechanical issues, and you could be a pioneer in "virtual instrument dowsing".

I am thinking about patenting the idea, before Hung steals it...

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

I can find a signal line without rods. I hold my arms out from my sides and relax my wrists so my hands point down somewhat. I call it the scarecrow stance. Then I walk around the transmitter (arms parallel to signal line) until I feel the psychic electricity. I can't pinpoint the target with this method, just the signal line. I use the Revelation Locator Rod. There is no other rod that has as low stiction. It has an extremely low start-up torque threshold that borders on the infinite. Of course it's not, but it's imperceptible.

Clearly you are unable to detect sarcasm when you read it.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Fred

Mike(Mont), since you have acquired such a high level of knowledge, did you try to dowse without a rod?
I mean, you could concentrate enough to mentally visualise a non-existing L-rod.
That way you could make the perfect instrument, no impaired by any mechanical issues, and you could be a pioneer in "virtual instrument dowsing".

I am thinking about patenting the idea, before Hung steals it...

Sorry, Fred. Both you and Hung are a little late with the idea of "virtual instrument dowsing".

It is already explained right here....
http://sites.google.com/site/dowsing...e-less-dowsing

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Sorry, Fred. Both you and Hung are a little late with the idea of "virtual instrument dowsing".

It is already explained right here....
http://sites.google.com/site/dowsing...e-less-dowsing

I´m so sad.
It´s amazing how the wildest ideas have already been seriously presented.
Anyway thanks Thesus, i will dedicate my life to it.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

J_P, I suggest you practice outdoors away from electrical lines. One of the problems learning to use a locator is it is easy to fixate on the rod when you should be using a soft focus and putting your awareness on the search area. Some people who think they are so intelligent cannot understand this. They want to be in control. When you stare at the rod and use intense concentration, you are overpowering it. Like I said, there is a fine line between gold fever and skepticism. You have to learn to let the rod work without trying to interfere with your mind or your body. Some people might do better with two hands or stabilizing the elbow or forearm with the opposite hand so your arm is somewhat relaxed. Or maybe just support your elbow with you hip. And remember to keep your arm and upper body all as one unit, don't try to freehand it. Go slow, some say move the rod tip three inches per second, no more. Be smooth, don't let the rod bounce more than about a quarter inch. This isn't easy to do and still stay relaxed and not fixate on it.

Hi Mike(Mont),
I don't know where you get the idea it will be easy to fixate on the rod or put my awareness on the search area. Maybe you are thinking of your habits from your skeptic days?

I have never fixated on the rod or any other thoughts while holding the Examiner in my hand. If it helps you understand, I start by placing a target in an area where I will try a test. Then I look at the area and determine some good places to walk that will take me past the target. Then I put the Examiner in my right hand and hold it steady so it is not swinging, and I walk in the areas I had in mind to walk. During the walking stage, I am not fixating or thinking about anything in particular. Not the rod or the target or the area where I am walking. There is nothing intelligent or controlling in this process. The part of a person's mind that calculates things and controls things is not in use while walking in an area and noticing if a rod swings.

After walking awhile, if I don't notice the Examiner swinging in a manner that makes me feel like it is connecting with the target, I stop walking and start thinking about what to do next. I then think of things like turn the tuning dial a little. Or try a different gold calculator code, or read some more instructions to see if I missed something important. After making adjustments, I stop thinking and go back to walking in the area where the target is.

If you recall, I told you in a previous post there is nothing difficult about this as long as I don't have to remember a lot of stuff while I am operating the Examiner. If I try to do all the stuff you mentioned in your post, then I would be thinking and trying to control the test, just as you cautioned not to do. It makes me wonder how you can find any targets when you are doing all these things. Doesn't it take a lot of precision and a conscious effort to control a rod in the manner you described while you are walking? On top of that you must consciously control your thoughts as you described while making the ground survey. I doubt I could do all that without exercising control instead of just walking and observing without thinking. I wouldn't want to introduce some un-needed controls when trying the Examiner. The kind of control you are suggesting might cause me to unwittingly fixate on things that seem un-natural to me... maybe even fixate on all the stuff I should be doing and not doing, which could be distracting enough to make it hard to do the field testing in an un-biased manner.

The instructions say nothing about taking the measures you suggested. But if all else fails, I will try the things you say I should keep in mind when using the examiner. In fact, I will try all your suggestions at the end of the test program regardless, even if I find success without them.

Because of the recent rains, most of my preliminary testing was indoors. I doubt this is the best condition, considering it is claimed your body acts to complete a ground circuit. Completing a ground circuit can be difficult when you are walking on a wood framed floor raised from the ground. But the ground will be dry enough soon to do some outdoor tests, which I will be doing away from electrical lines.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

Yes, learning to use a rod is similar to learning a golf swing--many things to remember but not think about. Anybody really think they can learn to swing a golf club in twenty minutes? That's why you need to practice until you can do it without thinking about it. That's also why I think many people are not able to learn--they think they are superior and don't need practice. Well, they are wrong on both counts. If you practice, it will come to you. If you listen to the skeptics, it won't. That's my new motto.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

Yes, learning to use a rod is similar to learning a golf swing--many things to remember but not think about. Anybody really think they can learn to swing a golf club in twenty minutes? That's why you need to practice until you can do it without thinking about it. That's also why I think many people are not able to learn--they think they are superior and don't need practice. Well, they are wrong on both counts. If you practice, it will come to you. If you listen to the skeptics, it won't. That's my new motto.

Hi Mike(Mont),

The person who appears to think his way is superior is you. I was sent an Examiner from the manufacturer that came with some very specific instructions. I am wondering why I should decide to ignore the factory instructions and follow yours instead. From what I have read in this forum, there are 1300 satisfied customers who used the instructions from the Rangertell factory, and you are the only one who insists your way must be used. And I look at your results... You found a silver target some time ago. This does not seem to compare to the performance Rangertell wrote about his 1300 clients attaining without making modifications or practicing your techniques. Perhaps you can see why I tend to prefer the instructions given by the manufacturer. What would you do if you had to decide which is the correct method? Would you choose the factory method used by 1300 satisfied customers, or the more difficult method by a person who says his way is the right way, yet only found a treasure with it some time ago?

I am not listening to the skeptics. I am listening to the Rangertell factory instructions and doing what they say. I doubt the 1300 satisfied Rangertell clients ever listened to your instructions. I believe they saw the same instructions that I read directly from the Rangertell factory CD. This makes me wonder how 1300 people got it right without doing all the things you say must be done.

Of course, If I listened to skeptics instead of the Rangertell instructions, I wouldn't even try. I would probably throw it in the trash like Clondike-Clad did. Right?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

Well, they are wrong on both counts. If you practice, it will come to you. If you listen to the skeptics, it won't. That's my new motto.

What's your old motto?

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Holy Molly... Mike, you are making it sound like the Examiner is powered by the error-prone ideomotor effect;

intense concentration
skepticism
interfere with your mind or body
stabilizing the elbow
support your elbow

Isn't the whole intent of the Examiner that it contains special inductive circuitry and special key-codes entered into the calculator for discrimination properties? That way, it works without the need for an ideomotor effect, and works regardless of what the operator is concentrating on, is left-handed, they are skeptical, or any of those other things you mentioned above?

If J_P needs to be informed about all the stuff you mentioned above (in order to insure success), I suppose those same admonishments are in the Manual of Operation, and he will read them there. If he does not find them in the Manual, I guess he really needn't concern himself with them.

Unless of course..... the Examiner he is testing is just another dowsing contraption.

Hi Theseus,
It is my understanding that the Examiner is powered by electronics that discriminate targets. It seems to me that what you say is correct. It operates as an electronic detector, not a dowsing rod. But as an electronic detector, part of the circuit is completed by the operator. From what I read about the operation of the Examiner, the connection to ground is completed by a capacitive coupling through the operator's body. However, the polarity of the operator is important in order for the current to flow correctly. According to the information I saw published, left-handed people have different polarity than right-handed. This causes an electronic problem with the locator circuitry. I don't fully understand how this works, but it is a test we can perform to see if it works as was published. I know some left-handed people who can try it to see what happens.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

Hi Theseus,
There seems to be a lot of confusion about the Rangertell Examiner. We have Mike(Mont)'s idea of how it should be used, and we have the skeptical viewpoint, and the LRL proponent viewpoint with a lot of different ideas mixing together here. I will try to clear up the confusion by separating the manufacturers concept from all the other ideas we are reading here.

I studied the manual to find exactly how the manufacturer says this LRL works. I find the inventors publish definite descriptions of how it works, as well as definite methods that should be used when operating the Examiner.

To start with, it is not possible to follow the methods the manufacturer specifies if I am using the methods Mike(Mont) says are required. I can use one method or the other, but not both at the same time. I will perform Mike(Mont)'s method after I have completed the manufacturer's techniques in the interest of making a fair test for the manufacturer.

Paraphrasing what I read in the manual, I can explain how the Rangertell factory says it works:
The manual describes the Examiner as an electronic device, not a dowsing device. From what they say it is basically a kind of MFD that is much more precise than other MFDs on the market. The manual states that the target materials you are searching for have their own specific frequencies, and the coil antenna within the Examiner can amplify this frequency once it detects it. The coil antenna within the examiner will detect the target frequency because you set this frequency by entering a number in the calculator. The calculator frequency is then coupled to the antenna within the Examiner by magnetic induction, which transfers this frequency to the antenna circuitry.

The manual goes on to explain how the coils inside the Examiner are sensitive to similar vibrations as the target material, and will resonate when you have the correct numbers for the target entered into the calculator. They also explain the importance of adjusting the tuning dial and setting the antenna length when tuning the Examiner. They caution to not change anything such as removing or adding jewelry, coins, or mobile phones in your pocket after the Examiner has been tuned, because this can degrade the tuning you had arrived at and will require you to tune it again. (I suppose you are best to remove loose change and jewelry before tuning the examiner if you don't want to deal with this problem). Once the Examiner is tuned, magnetic laws govern the disposition of the Examiner to align with the target.

The manual says that a dowser may be able to locate treasures using bent wires, but not nearly as well as with the Examiner. The reason is because the bent wires are not tuned. They pick up all frequencies, similar to an un-tuned broadband receiver that picks up all RF at the same time, while the Examiner is more similar to a finely tuned radio that picks up only one signal and amplifies it. The result is the Examiner will find the target when a dowser cannot. I can quote: "The frequency that the Examiner processes is so fine you cannot possibly go wrong, even if standard L rods refuse to move for you which is a way".

Another thing that should be mentioned is this is not the average MFD according to the manual. The adjustment dial on top can be adjusted to be responsive to different size targets. That is to say, you can tune it to find jewelry stores while ignoring a ring on the ground. Or you can tune it to ignore Jewelry stores and only see ring-sized gold. The buttons pressed on the calculator are also used for selecting sizes and shapes of targets in conjunction with the dial on top. These are the ways the examiner can ignore micro gold that can confuse other MFD users.

Having said all that, I have hopefully given you and others a clearer idea what the Rangertell factory manual says about the Examiner. From what I have discerned they are describing it as an electronic locator which uses magnetic induction to transfer electronic pulses from the calculator to circuitry inside the Examiner. Then the circuitry will begin resonating at an exact frequency as a target you have adjusted it for, and magnetic laws cause the antenna to swing toward the target.

As you can see, the manual describes the Examiner as an electronic machine, not a dowsing machine. The Rangertell manual makes the distinction to show how the electronics will locate treasures that dowsers can miss. But it does seem to use the same kind of "signals" that dowsers claim to use. What is different is they use electronic means to tune these signals. And the operator's body is part of this electronic circuit along with the calculator on top. The manual also makes mention that solar interference can be annoying, but usually does not stop the Examiner from locating a target.


When I am able to make some field tests, we can check to see how well all this works. So far I have made a test to see if I can find any inductive signals coming from the calculator. I found I could pick up a series of pulses when placing a small coil at the back side of the calculator. These pulses could be measured until I moved the coil about 3 cm away from the calculator. I am sure I could detect the pulses farther if I used a more sensitive instrument, but detecting the pulses with a coil confirmed it is possible to send a pulse signal from the calculator inductively into the enclosure of the Examiner. I don't know about any of the other things like resonant frequencies or magnetic laws causing the antenna to swing, but inductive coupling is possible.

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Originally Posted by J_Player

(I suppose you are best to remove loose change and jewelry before tuning the examiner if you don't want to deal with this problem).

J_P

Dont forget gold prosthesis too.

Thanks for the very clear manual presentation.