MINERO

[michael]

Originally Posted by michael

yes, we oblige you for these information and datas.

Excuse me dell I correct; we have been obliged to you....

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

I read these posts, and I agree that maybe these LRL detectors can work. Also, Robert has made statements that do not add anything of value to this thread except one thing. He says he does not believe the LRL will work and it is a fraud. I see no proof behind what Robert says. It sounds like he is speaking from his own personal experience that he did not find treasure with a LRL machine.

But I have to say one thing in defense of the position that Robert established. So far, I have found NOBODY on this earth who is willing to demonstrate a Mineoro machine locating treasure, or any other LRL machine finding treasure. NOBODY on earth! If Mineoro can find treasure, then why won't anybody demonstrate it working? All I hear is stories of how it found treasure in the past. Why not show it find treasure NOW so the non-believers can see with their own eyes? Are the non-believers are right? Is it true that nobody on earth will show the Mineoro find treasure because the Mineoro does not really work and is a fraud? Is anybody willing to show us a Mineoro machine work so we can see?

If the detector I post detect a coin, sure can detect a treasure. What kind of proof do you want? The only proof that this detect is the photographic evidence. See this cup with 9 gold plate inside we found in 1979. Or do you want to send the targets or treasure on the forum? No in defense of Mineoro, in defense of the fact that this kind of machine exist since 1959.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Mr. John Baldwin, British, sustain a coin. Miguel MontanÃ*a Grinok (my cousin) has in the hand a radiofrequency long range metal detector. This never detect bronze or copper in longitudinal form, only if this copper or bronze object is round like coin!!! Of course, yes very big copper or bronze objects, any form. Near for bronze and copper round forms, long distance for silver and gold, any form. Silver or gold round form, better!


In the corner, in red circle, the year. The car plate is of Texas.



Sorry for the unbelievers, no Cheeta, no Tarzan here, no "ugly persons", no Martians, no spirits, no ghost, no ancient echoes, no halo, no "Oye cómo va" (Santana's song), no pseudo-science, only science and "blondie persons" who celebrates one of the more 1,000 finds in the few days in USA.


Salute!!!

Esteban - what is the make of the detector that Miguel MontanÃ*a Grinok (your cousin) is holding in the photo? Or is it homemade?

[Esteban]

I post in another thread, yesterday, the parts of the radiofrequency gold-silver detector under the title: "Exactly as conventional MD". The search head is a coil, all the detector is homemade, the plastic search head like "air styler" was used for photographic laboratory. Is a good housing because was easy to build in it, but the variations in models is big.

Consist in two parts: the search head, this is a coil with oscillator, linked by a shielded cable, and a aluminium box with antenna sustained by the neck, in this model. Transmitter-receiver like a radar.

I have impressive quantities of photos, my idea is to put in a book.

If can found a gold chain, can found a treasure. You need an only experience for to convert in phanatic!

Here you can see better:

:confused:
MIchael...i already said to you good bye!? Didn't I???
Your tone is provoking me more and more.......
But i am not gonna answer to your nonsences any more...
All i had to tell you i already said.Nothing more.
Just give up of mentioning my name any more here or
anywhere else.
Otherwise do not appeal on my style of talking or
naming....
All right...i didn't contribute here with my posts...
what is your contribution here !? Provoking me and
other non-beleivers !?
Why i just had to peak you to argue with!?
Why i did not peak Dell or Esteban or somebody else?
Compare your style of talking here with their style
and you'll see a big difference.
All started with that unfortunate picture i posted.
It was a joke..."unsalted" joke on Mineoro's account
but not on your account. Who are you? Mineoro's
advocate? I did not judge you and your attitude from
the begining of my posts.You started to judge me and
provoked me to answer....But now is time to stop.
If you continue, you'll get no answer any more.
Best regards to Dell,Esteban and J Player.Even if i
do not agree with you people, i am respecting your
opinions and attitude....

[michael]

Robert!
With complete respect and courtesy;
I wrote before I never knew mineoros nor know them nor gotten acquainted and I am not their proponent I am really in Middle East.
why should I have provoked or defied you??!! I am not mad.
I said I am only searching for facts and really respect to logical skeptics.
but you first started ridiculing, sophisticating and riling the situation and at last humiliating others.
Maybe my english is not good, but I respect to all of the people
and love them, in case all are one god creatures.
I am not claimant or a theorisian , just ask you let here be a smooth place for exchanging information at least user people like as me benefit.
I beleive in one thing; questioning is not hideous, to be ignorant is hideous.
Up to now based on experiences (in Middle East) not only me, but also other treasure searchers, powerful MDs and LRLs are necessary for treasure hunting. here are so many guys have succeeded by combination LRLs + MDs, but because of some limitations we look for better instruments. from this can't conclude LRLs don't work or are junk.
At last I will be as well as glad this jejune dispute be stopped.


Dear Esteban. Thank you thank you for these encouraging enclosures.
Please write a little about detection details; distance, depth, mass of objects.
the ecxact device (if have model).
Please continue more documents enclosure. If you publish the book I’m the First one to order it.

[J_Player]

Esteban...You ask "what kind proof do I want? I have been telling you, but you don't hear. Here is what I want:

I want to see Mineoro machine find gold in front of my eyes, same as all other metal detectors do. simple, easy.

I do NOT want photo from 1959 that somebody says is gold from Mineoro. I do not want story about Mineoro finding gold some long time ago. I want to see with my eyes Mineoro find gold NOW. Simple, easy.

Here is my challenge to you: You tell me time and place in California area where you live to come and meet with you. Then you show me area 1 hector where I will bury 1-oz gold coin. Then you use Mineoro machine to find gold coin that I buried. Simple, easy. I come to you, you do no traveling and you do no work except to take out Mineoro machine and find gold coin in 1 hector.

Story about Mineoro find gold 20 years ago is no good. Watch Mineoro find gold today is good. Simple, easy. For my part, I will show real gold coin 1 oz troy weight (see picture below taken today, not 1979 story about gold coin). I will bring same gold coin for u to see and test for real gold. Then I bury this coin for you to find with Mineoro machine of your favorite choice. This will be absolute proof whether Mineoro is real machine for finding gold , or is fake fraud to steal money form buyer of LRL.

Remeber: I will come to you. You do not need to leave home except to show me 1 hector area to bury coin. Can you prove that Mineoro will find gold same as my White's Surfmaster PI Pro can find coin? Or is this just more "talk about fake LRL" that cannot find gold, and is only good for 1979 stories?

[Carl-NC]

JP,

The US rep for Mineoro, Kurt Kluey, lives in Vista, CA, between LA & San Diego. Why not contact him for a demo? Try your gold-coin-in-a-field test, or just go to the local beaches and see how many gold rings you can dig up in a couple of hours. Should be a cinch...

- Carl

[Dell Winders]

Contrary to the other suggestions, I would suggest that you save your time & gas money unless you are prepared to stay and devote a week of your time testing the Mineoro.

Unfortunately, the Mineoro, will only work when there is a suffecient Strength of Field of the target. The operator instructions say the Mineoro does not work when the Sun is in it's position between 11 AM and 1 PM.
That is not necessarily true. Interference can happen at any time night or day, and last for any length of time. I don't know of any way of predicting in advance when, or where this will occur. This is also true of all MFD, LRL, and Physical Dowsing.

The expense of travelling long distances for a weekend Treasure hunt with over expectations of recovery, using any of these methods of locating is neither practical, or logical thinking. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I post in another thread, yesterday, the parts of the radiofrequency gold-silver detector under the title: "Exactly as conventional MD". The search head is a coil, all the detector is homemade, the plastic search head like "air styler" was used for photographic laboratory. Is a good housing because was easy to build in it, but the variations in models is big.

Consist in two parts: the search head, this is a coil with oscillator, linked by a shielded cable, and a aluminium box with antenna sustained by the neck, in this model. Transmitter-receiver like a radar.

I have impressive quantities of photos, my idea is to put in a book.

If can found a gold chain, can found a treasure. You need an only experience for to convert in phanatic!

Here you can see better:

Hi Esteban,
I have seen the photo of the detector you posted on another thread, but it only shows the external features and controls. Also, I thought the housing looked like a hair dryer. Now I know why.

Can you post the schematic? I am sure many people here would like to build this detector to see if it can find treasure for them, as well as for you and your cousin. At least this is a homemade design that you claim works ok, and not a (not to be named here) company that is trying to make money and charging many thousands of dollars.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Contrary to the other suggestions, I would suggest that you save your time & gas money unless you are prepared to stay and devote a week of your time testing the Mineoro.

Unfortunately, the Mineoro, will only work when there is a suffecient Strength of Field of the target. The operator instructions say the Mineoro does not work when the Sun is in it's position between 11 AM and 1 PM.
That is not necessarily true. Interference can happen at any time night or day, and last for any length of time. I don't know of any way of predicting in advance when, or where this will occur. This is also true of all MFD, LRL, and Physical Dowsing.

The expense of travelling long distances for a weekend Treasure hunt with over expectations of recovery, using any of these methods of locating is neither practical, or logical thinking. Dell

Regardless of whether you (like me) are a skeptic, where LRLs and dowsing are concerned, or a firm believer (like Dell), the sheer unpredictability of these devices must make them very difficult and frustrating to use in practise. How can you trust the results of a device that fails to work between 11 AM and 1 PM (perhaps stop for a long lunch break? ), and is unreliable at other (unknown) times of the day. In fact, according to Dell, it could quite likely be a complete waste of a weekend, and may even require as long as one week to get good results. Quite often I've seen regular metal detectorists go home after only two or three hours of searching if they haven't found anything worth finding. These are (of course) the impatient ones, and very often silver and gold coins have been unearthed many hours after they left the site. How could these people possibly cope with the unpredictability of an LRL?
Carl has dismembered many of these so-called LRLs and found them to be dubious in nature, and many may even be intentionally fraudulent.
This is why I'm interested in seeing the schematic of Esteban's device, as this is homemade and is not for commercial gain. Ivconic's negative ion detector is interesting, but he has never claimed that it can detect gold - just that "it does something".

[Esteban]

Hi, with all the possible fair-play!

J.Player: Justly the pics I post are no part of Mineoro history, nothing to do with technical aspects of Mineoro. I repeat: There are another kind of detector. Only I'm defending another kind of principle for MD.

But I know two models of Mineoro detects, the PDC 205 and the PDC 210. Charged clouds -possible rain- make impossible to use the both. Another little deffect is the difficulty to find the exact point where is buried the target. Now, I'm trying the 2006, this is very stable.

Michael: thanks very much. Need more photos, in special the pics with Mr. John Baldwin, who enjoy this history since 1963-64 to 1986 and collect thousands pieces of gold and silver.

Robert: thanks. We want your participation in this tournament. Respect the FG, I think you must adjust no in very high sensibility, the necessary for to obtain stability. Adjust quiet and move the machine slowly to earth and sky. If you obtain falses in sky or earth positions, retouch the adjustments. All the adjustments make slowly at the exact workable point you find. So, walk with it and search. If you found a point where are insistent the beeps, then you sure you find a target. Search in shinny days, low humidty in air.

Carl: ear that Mineoro only detect targets long time buried, several years. Do the Mineoro's dealer collected testimonials?

Qiaozhi: I'm not the constructor. The person who built it MAYBE design one for my personal use. He dissambled all the models to prevent copy. But during the "Gold Age" (for us) we found many items. I assure you: we collect items like rice! Only precious things and coins.

Dell: yes, is Mr. Williams. Williams and many persons was involved in two trips to USA. No treasures found, yes infinity items. There are many persons in Texas who remember this amazing adventure. They are the witnesses. Ask the witnesses about the accuracy of this radiofrequency - type radar machine.

The both extremes _LRL rod users and classical detectorist_ only the first day the team arrived dissapoint the machine. So, Miguel present a challenge: Under the charge of the looser a complete barbecue. Miguel found a target in the patio of one of them, and at the night the non-believers cooking the meat and various kinds of chorizos and another anti-health foods!

Salute populi, detectoturi te salutant!

[Esteban]

Found with electronic LRL. Include eyes lenses (gold platted).

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Unfortunately, the Mineoro, will only work when there is a suffecient Strength of Field of the target. The operator instructions say the Mineoro does not work when the Sun is in it's position between 11 AM and 1 PM.

From the Mineoro web site:

1. They detect during the day and at night. 24 hours.
2. Atmospheric discharge does not interfere with the detection (nor rays).
3. Electric discharge , EMI (electro magnetic impulse) do not interfere.
4. They detect at night and during the day with humidity up to 80%.
5. Model FG78 - with humiditiy similar or less than 55% - detects gold outside the earth.
6. All models FG78 and DC2007 detect with, from 10% to 80% humidity.
7. They detect with ionic/electrostatic fields similar or bigger than > 25%.
8. Ionic/electrostatic field less than < 25%, charge the classifier with electrostatic energy.

Also, the FG78 is advertised as being gold-only, with the ability to locate fresh gold. Sounds like testing this device should be simple and quick, not much room left for excuses.

Interference can happen at any time night or day, and last for any length of time. This is also true of all MFD, LRL, and Physical Dowsing.

Hmmmm.... almost sounds like LRL results are... completely random!

- Carl

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I'm not the constructor. The person who built it MAYBE design one for my personal use. He dissambled all the models to prevent copy. But during the "Gold Age" (for us) we found many items. I assure you: we collect items like rice! Only precious things and coins.

Does this mean that you do not have this detector any more?
If so, why did you dispose of a device that can detect so many interesting and valuable items?
It is a pity that you do not have the schematic.

[Dell Winders]

Regardless of whether you (like me) are a skeptic, where LRLs and dowsing are concerned, or a firm believer (like Dell), the sheer unpredictability of these devices must make them very difficult and frustrating to use in practise.

You are right. When LRL & Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination are affected by intereference and I am trying to conduct an accurate survey it can be extremely frustrating. On the other hand when operating conditions are optimum the results astonish even hardened skeptics, including myself. (I still find it difficult to believe the multiple discrimination I'm experiencing with X-Scan, yet I can't deny that it is happening) It's not a matter of being a believer. They either work, or they don't work. Believing has nothing to do with it.

I don't use my products, or sell them for the purpose of locating near surface coins & Jewelry, and you may have some reason to be skeptical when they are advertised within that that scenario. That is not their intended use and metal detectors fill the hobbyist requirements quite well.

I use LRL's, Dowsing, & Frequency Discrimination as preliminary information gathering tools to help me isolate and evaluate deep, unknown, possible Treasure Troves that are beyond the depth penetration of conventional Metal detectors. If you aren't familiar with the problems and costs of Treasure Hunting for Deep buried Treasures then you have no reason to be Skeptical, or critical, or even dislike a concept that has made this possible.

Unless you can show a better, faster, more economical method to accompolish this, your skepticism, or criticism has no significance.

If my explaining the limitations and problems assosciated with these methods of locating offends you, then you are offended by honesty. I do build, use and sell my products and I can be proud of the fact that I have not received a single complaint from the customers I have built instruments for. They know and understand the products limitations, before they purchase.

You will find my URL listed in an article by James Randi, and photo's by Carl Moreland, in Vol.12, No.2, of Skeptic Magazine. If only Mr.Randi, would be as honest. (sigh) Dell

[Esteban]

Qiaozhi:

Through the years, only interference on air sum, now celular phones and anothers. As this was a delicate radiofrequency devices, the interference of today make impossible to use it. But a new redesign is in the way.

This is the reason why I'm trying Mineoro today, since is not a radiofrequency device.

Please, I'm in your situation! Waiting the redesigned model!

Whether i am gonna talk polite here,choose every word, or be rude as i am,in my private life
too, makes no differences in the main point and idea.Stuff like Mineoros products and other
LRL(very wrong choice of terms here)devices simply do not work the job supposed to do!
Dell's last post(with respect to Dell) shows very clear that mineoro device acts like
some "tribal quack"...You just have to fulfill neverending list of conditions to make it
work !? With any conventional type of md, whether Pi or IB or even BFO you always know
what to expect!I usually go on the location, switch it on, ground balance it, adjust maybe
some more "knobs" and start prospecting. If the location is good i am starting to dig and
collect items...in a few hours i do have full pockets with arrows,coins,rings etc.etc.
Simply as that! I repeated this procedure for over the 20 years with a great number of
conventional devices and always the same,easy,sweet hobby! Occasionally i collect some
rare item and gain a very good money on market for it. That's how i survived some years,
that's how i collected money to buy newer and better devices.But when tried something
simillar with rods,odds,UG12,Voyager 2005,FG78,Electroscope....and a few more disputable
products i founded nothing...zero...empty pockets....no money....wasted time,wasted nervs,
wasted fuel........everything wasted!!!
Somebody may post here even 10 ooo pics with coins,rings,gold items etc. but it means no
proofs at all to me. I do have to much finds here,at home.I can post here million pics with
my finds and claim that i founded them with a couple of rods or mineoro or with something
else.No point at all.
Esteban,do not undestand me wrong(like somebody else did).I am not "attacking" you....
No,not at all! I just want to explain to you that there is no such radio frequency in this
life, that it can penetrate in the ground !!!No such thing! I am electronic engineer, also
radio-amateur on some bands for over the 25 years.Trust me, i do know much about radio and
radio frequencies.NO RADIO FREQUENCY THAT PENETRATE IN TO GROUND !!! Remember that.
Frequencies bellow aprox.50 kHz can peneterate through some type of materials, but weak,
very weak. Famuous EMFAD UG12 is designed to collect some signals from remoted TX's and
according to that shifted,rephazed results to "make some picture" of situation in the
nearby ground.All works perfect in theory.But in practice,in real life, it is unusable
almost in 90% of cases....it shows just as a good intention and sweet dream, nothing else!
You mentioned some device and "radio freq" etc.etc. If that device works at least enything,
than, trust me, it does not use any radio frequency or any simillar concept....
WHen you hear somebody mentioned some frequency, linked to some metal detector,it is just
a frequency of output oscillator...it is frequency of electromagnetic field around search
coil.That frequency does not penetrate anywhere. You have electrmagnetic field and as far
it outspread, it is "zone of detection". Of course, as far as you go out, toward the end of
that zone, sensibillity became more weak.Density of electrmagnetic field is quite proportional
of levity of finding some item around... This was very prune explanation of eventual
conection between "radio frequency" and detection generally....More "technical" aproach you
may find on the other threads here. This thread is about mineoro.So far nobody impart any
proof that mineoro devices worth something. On the other hand, there are a number of people
who tested mineoro devices(myself too) and reported absolute "bust" of it !!!
So at the begining of my posts here i was not able to argue to much about it.I used rude
way to deal with awared or unawared proponents of that nonsence devices like mineoro.
Now i see that it is a better aproach to try to talk more with peoples here who has good
will to talk, without any prejudices and if that does not help than, simply to give up!
And i am giving up slowly....This was just "blank" during my spare time, nothing else.
But still, i do have "reserve" in my mind, still you are looking to honest to lie about, so
i can even beleive you that you have found those finds with some lrl...and i can explain
to myself, and to you how? Here is how: you are borned with "extra sence" skills, you are
not awared of those skills.Your mind is "accepting" any apparatus you choose by case, and
when holding that apparatus in your hands,on the field, than your "skills" start to do a job!
The same thing with rods and odds....
My point was from the begining, why wasting money on expensive nonsence devices, while you
can do same thing with much cheaper apparatus, for example rods...
If you have "borned with" sences and skills, the result is gonna be same as with moneoro!
Dell, that's why your mineoro acts like "quack", Some day you are tired,other day you are
sick,another day you are just fine...and that day your mineoro is locating burried items
very easy....at the end of a day you are very happy man!
Who's gonna convince you and Esteban and others that mineoro sucks? Nobody!
Concerning this, i am very ready to beleive you people,that those finds you are posting
here,are real and that you are not frauds.That's why i never,and NEVER,claimed that any of you
are fraud at all. I only claimed, and i am gonna claim again,that major LRL manufacturers
are FRAUDS forever!Using already,very well known,phenomena of beautifull human mind, to earn
a lot of money and became rich!And this is not metaphysics! This is antrophology.
regards to all

[Dell Winders]

Carl, I have only tested the Mineoro, under the operating conditions experienced here in Central Florida.

The same negative operating conditions may not have existed, experienced, or recognized, by the manufacturer in his part of the world. I don't know. I'm speaking from my own experience of using the Mineoro, in Central Florida conditions ONLY.

Hmmmm.... almost sounds like LRL results are... completely random!

By recognizing the fact that there are limitations makes it possible to conduct a field survey accordingly, or the manufacturer to build a better product with less limitations.

But, in reality, the results are no more random,or out of line with the amount of depth penetration that was lost by Whites, Garrett and Fisher metal detectors we tested in 1992 under fluxuating LRL operating conditions. Of course, I never saw you, the manufacturers, or engineers informing consumers of that problem? Dell

[Dell Winders]

Hi Robert, I don't defend the advertising claims for the Mineoro, but I am at a loss as to how you believe it can be controlled with the mind. If that is true then it means I was mentally controlling the beeps made by the Mineoro with my mind while it was being operated by another party. I don't think I'm capable of that, but it would be nice if I could.

In the tests I conducted and in most of it's usage, I was not the operator. I purposely served as an observer so I could understand the problems a newbie might have in using the instrument. The owner wasn't having any results with the Mineoro when he got it. It beeped everywhere. Now that he understands the problem which I have explained here he tunes and uses it accordingly. I am going to see about getting him a magnetic "field" meter so he can check the meter to know when the Mineoro, will work, and when it won't.

I don't know anything about electronics, but years of trial and error has helped me recognize some of the field problems encountered in the use of electronic applications to the physicsof earth science. If you still have your locators, I'll be happy to help you understand their limitations and perhaps you can salvage some benefit from your investments. Dell

[Esteban]

Use the terminology radiofrequency for to separate the oscillation frequency from a coil (and his harmonics) to the pure audio in a speaker. Also use the terminology radiofrequency for to designate the radio apparatus inside the box (yes, radio, can be AM, 25 Mhz or FM).

About radiofrequencies, how works GPR at high frequencies?

[Esteban]

Troglograph is a apparatus for communications in caves.

[detectoman]

hola esteban y demas
yo no soy esceptico a nada, y estoy seguro de que muchas estrategias hay para lograr diferentes propositos, y es que en efecto la electronica es una ciencia muy extensa, y que puede ser aplicada de muchas maneras, y estoy seguro de que pueden aun descubrirse muchos diferentes aparatos para detectar de mejor forma, y se que a veces el uso de diferentes detectores en conjunto se necesitan para ser usados para poder encontrar muy escondidas cosas en diferentes terrenos, yo he andado en compañia de muy diversos amigos detectores, ellos usan tegnicas por demas extrañas, pero ellos creen en ellas, y yo se que pudieran ser eficaces y que tienen amplios margenes de error, la solucion es ser experto en eso, y eso no es facil, cada terreno es especial, y diferentes estrategias pueden usarse, en el caso de los mineoro aunque nunca los he usado se que estan en camino de ser eficientes, y creo que deben tener tambien muchas limitaciones, y creo que es necesario un experto con experiencia en ellos para poder usarlos correctamente, creo que estos detectores mineoro , tambien precisan de ayuda en conjunto con otros detectores, y entiendo que estos detectores pudieran no funcionar en especiales condiciones de terreno o de clima, y que precisan de condiciones que los favorezcan, y creo que son artefactos que aun estan en proceso de eficacia, y que solo los que han tenido ya alguna experiencia en sus diseños anteriores pudieran obtener bastante utilidad de ellos, en verdad mi opinion no tiene mucha importancia pues nunca he usado un lrl o un mineoro pero estoy muy abierto a los logros de la invesigacion, creo que solo alguien con extrema paciencia puede usar eficazmente estos detectores, eso lo digo desde un punto de experiencia de alguien como yo que le gusta mucho la dinamica increible de la electronica
yo creo que se hace necesario un detector liviano que cumpla todas las ventajas de todos los detectores juntos, ya que es muy engorroso cargar en las expediciones con todo un arsenal de distintos detectores, y seria mejor solo llevar un versatil y compacto detector todo terreno del tamaño o forma del mineoro o aun mas pequeño, un detector que pueda ser usado aun entre la maleza o entre los riscos en parajes montañosos, se necesita un detector que resista a todo clima, y que no le afecte la lluvia y resista los golpes y el fuerte calentamiento del sol, yo opino que es necesario un detector que pueda ser enfocado a mediana distancia y que tambien pueda precisar el punto exacto enfocandolo hacia abajo, he visto que el mineoro precisa de una brujula y que es necesaria la orientacion de los polos de la tierra, para que este pueda ser influenciado en toda su capacidad, y esto es engorroso, y he oido de esteban que precisa de estarlo moviendo de arriba a abajo constantemente, esto tambien es dificultoso, imaginen como terminara la muñeca de la mano con ese proceso constante, yo creo que los que defienden al mineoro deben de dar una pruba indudable de su eficacia, y ya que ellos conocen las condiciones ambientales para que este funcione a toda capacidad, que escogan tambien esta condicion neceasaria, y es que es necesaria la demostracion cierta, si el detector es eficiente puede facilmente ser demostrado , si no es que es aun un detector en proceso de perfeccionamiento y con muchas fallas, en el caso de que fueron encontradas estatuas de serpientes en egipto, a gran profundidad, esto solo es creible porque en egipto solo hay arena y es muy estable la estatica ambiental, y no hay intercepciones de electromagnetismos de minerales o metales o corrientes de agua ,como en un terreno de montaña o ciudad , creo que el mineoro precisa de muy especiales condiciones para su correcto funcionamiento, precisa de que haya especial estabilidad atsmosferica, yo creo que aun pudiera inventarse un mejor detector y que este no fuera tan impractico como uno que precisa de una computadora colgada al cuello para scaner, yo creo que un versatil detector que se maneje como una liviana pistola" seria lo optimo , este detector deberia ser muy resistente y eficiente, y creo que es posible su diseñacion, y creo que el camino son las estrategias de la captacion de radiofrecuencias o bandas, de trasmisor y recepcion , algo parecido al sonar, creo que ese detector resolveria todas las dificultades que nos incomodan, creo que los detectores de platillo terminaran por quedar casi obsoletos,y solo aplicables en especiales usos , como dentro de un recobeco o cueva, y creo que solo se necesita un pequeño detector que detecte la frecuencia especial que emite un metal solido en desorden de acomodos humanos, y confinado a una hubicacion extraña, creo que tambien los metales pudieran ser encontrados con unas simples varillas en las manos, pero que eso precisaria de una enorme experiencia de parte del manipulador, y que esa estrategia tambien precisa de condiciones tanto del operador como de que no hay vientos que muevan esas rusticas varillas las cuales deberian de ser de especial aleacion, en ese caso se usa el efecto de palanca aplicado a los extremos de esas varillas, y las bandas de las corrientes magneticas, nada mas potente que las fuerzas de las facultades humanas, pero la electricidad o la electronica es una maravilla que puede ser manipulada en artefactos especiales muy estables en todas las condiciones de alli la importancia del avance de invencion de los aparatos detectores inmejorables

muchas maneras hay de llegar a un logro, pero no todas son las mejores
aplicar la mejor estrategia del momento es la solucion
el mejor detector de metales aun no esta inventado, siempre habra uno mejor.
todos tienen sus desventajas
el mejor detector es el que va acompañado de la inteligencia

detectoman

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by robert

...and i can explain
to myself, and to you how? Here is how: you are borned with "extra sence" skills, you are
not awared of those skills.Your mind is "accepting" any apparatus you choose by case, and
when holding that apparatus in your hands,on the field, than your "skills" start to do a job!
The same thing with rods and odds....
My point was from the begining, why wasting money on expensive nonsence devices, while you
can do same thing with much cheaper apparatus, for example rods...
If you have "borned with" sences and skills, the result is gonna be same as with moneoro!

Personally I do not believe in ESP (extrasensory perception) either.
You just have to watch Derren Brown to understand how easily the human mind can be fooled and controlled by others - or even by yourself!
http://www.channel4.com/entertainmen...rol/index.html
In particular, watch the Magic Doll - under Trick of the Mind.
Enjoy

[hung]

Wow.

So much posts since the last time I visited. Some very interesting and informative, some so amusing that made me laugh a lot..

However for me, it's quite impressive how the LRL skeptics keep insisting they don't work. I promised I wouldn't lose my time in that argument anymore. Just one thing to add. I do beleive there may be other working LRLs besides the Mineoros. But as far as conception and effectiveness, they are the best for me.

Esteban: Thanks for your info.Really nice to learn about the details of the Pat Garret's case. I already knew about this when Damasio told me upon the last time I visited him.
He said Alonso detected the watch with the prototype of the DCH 85. After the exact spot was pinpointed by the prototype detector, Garret (the detectorist) ran his best model Garret over it. As expected, no beep at all. Then by the time that about 2 foot of ground had been dug, the Garret detector started to emit weak beeps. The watch was about 3 to 4 foot deep if memory does not fail me. Garret then grabbed the watch and started to run around his property yelling and laughing exactly as a child at Alonso and the others' amusement.
I also was told that Mel Fisher knew about the detector (not sure if he was present at that occasion) and invited Alonso and his group to participate the search for the so called 'Atocha's mother lode' the following week. Well , simply put he did locate the area where the treasure was. Fisher dismissed the group that day and a week later returned to the spot where he recovered the treasure. Not a single word to anybody about who truly had in fact locate the treasure! And not a single object was handed to Alonso and his group! Not even thanks was said! This was DISGUSTING!!
So disgusting that the british gentleman Mr. John Baldwin had a nervous breakdown and died!

***************
Relevant things to consider here.
The DCH 85 worked with almost 100% of ionic field intensity. Those days in US really had the right conditions for it to work luckily and fortunately.
The 'center & deep' acessory did not exist at that time. Thus he pinpointed the spot using triangulation.

Also Esteban, the pinpointing of target with the PDC 210 can actually be achieved for small objects. You simply use the center&deep. Have someone hold it in front of the PDC's antenna and when you move it on the ground the PDC will beep indicating the exact location.

JPlayer: In one of the last times I phoned Damasio, he told me that after the lauching of the FG78 which is taking all of his time, he plans to go personally to US for a public demonstration. If this does happen I will see if I could go with him to act as interpreter too.
I believe Mr. Kurt Kluey does not have the new models yet (DC 2007 and FG7 as they are on the verge of shipping.

Closing.
The PDC 205 and PDC 210 were great at their times and many treasures were found with it. Check the Iran's case which I reported here some time ago.
I said they 'were' because they are now far surpassed by the new DC and FG in terms of accuracy and detecting power.

I have a site already detected by the PDC 210 which is truly a jesuit valuable. I won't coment here how we got to this conclusion. The PDC 210 beeps continuously as if it was in front of a power transformer. We are setting up plans of recovery right now. The only reason I did not go yet is because I am waiting for the FG to come out just to check how it behaves there.

Curiosity killed the cat!