PD Discussions

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Fred

Personally i would simply put a garage door opener in my shoe

But honestly in those videos i don´t think anyone that appears on the images is doing this.

That was my initial thought, except you only need to put the switch in your shoe.

Originally Posted by Morgan

In the picture ,note Alonso holding the camera.
This was the first time those buyers found something with mineoro. After buy and take LRL´s to their country they not have again this performance.This happens very often,this happens to me.
what i´m saying is just my imagination,i dont know nothing,but i found both videos suspicious.I´m wondering,Maybe i´m wrong???

The idea of putting the transmitter inside the video camera would be a clever trick, as no-one would be suspicious of the camera man. To make the demonstration convincing, you would need to have all the Mineoro employees working together. The camera man triggers the beeping, Alonso (in conjunction with the potential customer) operates the FG90, and the assistant does the sleight of hand by dropping the small target into the hole. They've obviously had plenty of practice.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Morgan

MY CONCLUSION

I HAVE CONFIRMATION THAT SOME MINEORO MODELS WORK AS LRL ONLY WITH LARGE AMOUNT OF PRECIOUS METALS,THIS INCLUDES SOME APRECIATED PINPOINT ABILITY.

ALL THE OBJECTS I HAVE FOUND WAS ONLY WITH MODEL DC2008,ALLWAYS WITH SPARZED SIGNALS IN THE AREA NEAR THE OBJECTS;AND NEED ALL THE TIME CONVENTIONAL MD TO PINPOINT THE TARGETS.

FINAL CONCLUSION:
MINEORO MAYBE USE SOME TRICK TO CONVINCE POTENTIAL BUYERS TO MAKE BUSINESS WITH THEM.
WHEN I LEFT BRAZIL WITH MY MINEORO I WAS CONVINCED THAT I BOUGT A REAL LRL;BUT AFTER EXTENSIVE SEARCHING OF POTENTIAL GOLD AREAS AND MOST OF THE BEST BEACH (THE MORE PRODUTIVE IN GOLD RINGS)I CANT GET GOOD RESULTS, I CONCLUDE MINEORO USE SOME KIND OF A TRICK TO DECEIVE.
OF COURSE SOME OF THE MINEORO MODELS WORK AS LRL,BUT NEVER WITH THE PERFORMANCE THEY SHOW IN THE FIELD TEST, IN GAROPABA:
I SENT EMAILS FOR MINEORO USERS IN MINEORO SITE,AND NEVER RECEIVE ANSWER.

I CHALLENGE ALL MINEORO USERS(EXCEPT HUNG) TO POST HERE THEIR EXPERIENCES AND TELL ME IF I`M WRONG.

Hi Morgan,

A lot of users of Mineoro already posted their experiences here. You can read them in the forum here:

Here is what you and Geo reported from Portugal to be convinced Mineoro LRLs are not detecting long range:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=78
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=111

Here is Carl-NCs report of how he could not detect anyting with his Mineoro LRL including the gold plate that came with the locator or his 10 oz gold bar:
http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost....8&postcount=32

Here is one of neronc's posts saying he bought a Mineoro LRL that never detected anything at all, not even the gold plate they sent with the locator, and the factory never answered his emails... http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=119

Here is where Connie said she really had a brain wash from Brazil when she bought a Mineoro LRL. Maybe she wonders if the Mineoro LRLs only work when they are being demonstrated at the factory...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=86

Here is what vcrb posted. He said his Mineoro LRL does not work in any weather condition on any day...
http://geotech1.com/forums/showpost....1&postcount=49

Here is one of Michael's reports of how he found no detection at all with Mineoro LRLs after one year of trying...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=90

Here is where we finally learn the real reason why Gibon sold his Mineoro LRL...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=107

Here is what Alexismex wrote about his experience with Mineoro LRLs before he made photos of what is really inside...
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12061
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12165



Maybe these people can come back and give us newer updates to tell if they found any good detection with Mineoro LRLs recently.
Or maybe they can see if their Mineoro will beep when they push the button on their keychain to unlock the door for their car.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

That was my initial thought, except you only need to put the switch in your shoe.

Thank you to be so kind when telling me how i lack imagination

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The idea of putting the transmitter inside the video camera would be a clever trick, as no-one would be suspicious of the camera man. (...)

Yes , but I rejected it after seeing the detector beeping while Patricia was looking elsewhere and talking with someone.That would let only the guy shooting the video to be the culprit ...

Originally Posted by J_Player

Or maybe they can see if their Mineoro will beep when they push the button on their keychain to unlock the door for their car.
Best wishes,J_P

Personaly i am more interested i knowing why it does beep in those videos.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Fred

Thank you to be so kind when telling me how i lack imagination

I was only thinking of your well being. It would be very uncomfortable to walk around with a garage door opener in your shoe.

Originally Posted by Fred

Yes , but I rejected it after seeing the detector beeping while Patricia was looking elsewhere and talking with someone. That would let only the guy shooting the video to be the culprit ...

Yes - that would make him the beeping culprit.
But the others are there to enhance the illusion, such as surreptitiously planting the "treasure" in the hole and helping with the search.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

...Personaly i am more interested i knowing why it does beep in those videos.

Hi Fred,

If you remember the circuit Geo posted for the FG79 had a VLF loop tuned at about 260 KHz feeding to the first stage transistor. Then when this signal reached the collector of the next stage, there is what looks like a 60 KHz collpitts oscillator. Any noise coming in to the first stage can set this thing off.
But what noise?
Ion chamber?
Doubtful.... it can only respond to radiation, not a distant ion neutralizing. And if it did respond to radiation, the impedance is not right to pass a signal to Q1.
So what's left?

The big loop tuned to 260 KHz can collect noise, and the conductors around the base of Q1 might be able to. ---- and the positive feedback and the oscillator at the next stage which feed back.
But what would cause this kind of stray noise?
Maybe a VLF transmitter used to open a garage door?
Or a transmitter used to unlock a car door from the key ring?

Or maybe airborne electrical noise in the vicinity?

The FG79 has this odd VLF receiver with a lower frequency VLF oscillator, but other Mineoro designs have actual modified metal detector circuits in them. It begins to seem similar to the Alonso pistol detector, except with an ion chamber to reduce the performance. Could it be that whatever caused the Alonso PD to beep at Morgan's gold medal from 2 meters also caused the FG90 to beep at a nearby ear ring?

And what would that be?
An unshielded metal detector that picks up more sensitive signals at a farther range, at the expense of picking up a lot of faint noise signals? And we also see how it begins to beep more when they hold a metal antenna pointed down at the location where the treasure is buried. Could it be there is some VLF broadcast interference that is being picked up as an electric signal which is normally shielded on a normal metal detector?
Possibly a distant thunder storm, hundreds or thousands of miles away which is detected as small spikes in the RF? Then the nearby metal helps to boost the signal up enough to register a beep?

So far, all of the Mineoro detectors I have seen work on VLF frequencies. It seems they all have a VLF oscillator inside, and a VLF receiver, which appears to be responsive to broadband noise. But this is simply how it seems to me. It could actually be some rocket science we are looking at behind those BC548 transistors.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Morgan

I SENT EMAILS FOR MINEORO USERS IN MINEORO SITE,AND NEVER RECEIVE ANSWER.

I CHALLENGE ALL MINEORO USERS(EXCEPT HUNG) TO POST HERE THEIR EXPERIENCES AND TELL ME IF I`M WRONG.

[J_Player]

[Qiaozhi]

[J_Player]

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by J_Player

I try to make MINEORO sounds with many device(car locked dors device) and this not make the MINEORO beep...
One metal detector switched ON,can make MINEORO sounds but not more than 1m distance.
The mobile the same,but only when is receiving.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Morgan

I try to make MINEORO sounds with many device(car locked dors device) and this not make the MINEORO beep...
One metal detector switched ON,can make MINEORO sounds but not more than 1m distance.
The mobile the same,but only when is receiving.

Hi Morgan,

This is interesting. I think Geo reported his Mineoro will beep when he pushes the transmitter button to make a garage door open. When we check the garage door button transmitters, we find they are made to work at frequencies from 300 MHz to 400 MHz, and can be different in different countries. Even in the same country we can see a lot of different transmitters that can be used. For example, in the USA, the Genie garage door opener company will sell you any of these frequencies:
290, 295, 300, 305, 310, 315, 320, 325 or 390 MHz
http://www.geniedoor.com/faq.htm#f

And there are a lot more frequencies for garage door transmitters used in this range. If Geo sees his Mineoro locator beeping at a garage door transmitter, then maybe it is sensitive to short bursts in the 300-400MHz range. Or maybe it is picking up some modulation from this burst. Maybe it depends on the digital code that is programmed to open the door.

Here is another experiment to try:
Get a piezoelectric cigarette lighter that makes a spark when you light it. Let's see how far the Mineoro can detect this spark.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

In Europe they all are working at 433.92 mhz, and more recently in the 800mhz band.
Anyway looking at the video i could not find any evidence of someone using such a transmitter.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

In Europe they all are working at 433.92 mhz, and more recently in the 800mhz band.
Anyway looking at the video i could not find any evidence of someone using such a transmitter.

Hi Fred,

If we think about it, Alonso and other factory workers know how to build a small VLF transmitter that sends a signal at the same frequency as the Mineoro locator loop is tuned to.
And I am sure they know how to make this transmitter as small as a garage door opener transmitter that they can hide in thier shoe or pocket.
The question is whether this is what they did.
Did they do this to make Mineoro locators beep for demonstration videos?
Did they do it to help sell Mineoro locators?
Did they do it in the videos we are watching?

I couldn't find any evidence of someone using such a transmitter either.
Could it be that Qiaozhi is right?
Maybe the guy holding the camera is operating the transmitter?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Could it be that Qiaozhi is right?
Maybe the guy holding the camera is operating the transmitter?

I'm not saying that this is actually what's happening in the video. It was just one possible method that could be used to trick a potential customer into thinking the device was able to detect treasure at long range.

The problem is that no-one else seems to be able to duplicate what happens in the videos when the Mineoro people are not present. Perhaps it's just the difference between a demo and real life?

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I'm not saying that this is actually what's happening in the video. It was just one possible method that could be used to trick a potential customer into thinking the device was able to detect treasure at long range.

The problem is that no-one else seems to be able to duplicate what happens in the videos when the Mineoro people are not present. Perhaps it's just the difference between a demo and real life?

Hmmm...

Connie said she really got a brain wash from Brazil...
She went to the factory and saw a demonstration in real life, and then she went home with a Mineoro LRL in real life.
Then she was not able to see the performance she saw at the demonstration in real life.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Hi JP,
Yes technically it is very easy, and you can find super small TX modules everywhere on ebay for example and on different frequencies.
But that doesn´t explain why the detector beeps in those particular videos, and it is what i would like to understand , like i said.
In fact it can pinpoint very well, but we can reject the fact that it works on a regular MD principle, because when wandering over watches, rings, cellphones and cameras, it doesn´t beep at all. This is why i observed that it only beeps when one gives attention to it and expect it to do so.
There are more strange behaviors i remarked, but details only.

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Fred,
If we think about it, Alonso and other factory workers know how to build a small VLF transmitter that sends a signal at the same frequency as the Mineoro locator loop is tuned to. J_P

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hmmm...

Connie said she really got a brain wash from Brazil...
She went to the factory and saw a demonstration in real life, and then she went home with a Mineoro LRL in real life.
Then she was not able to see the performance she saw at the demonstration in real life.


Best wishes,
J_P

I was in Garopaba at the same time as Connie. She was with Damasio and write all the informations about Mineoro in the notebook. She was very persistent at the point to ask all the informations about LRL distance,umidity conditions etc etc,i was near and laugh,i said we dont need all this instruments to measure umidity,just go out for TH in a suny day,but she said what Damasio tell is very IMPORTANT for a sucessful treasure find with MINEORO.
After all ,she only get a brain wash from Brazil and heavy sun in her red hair and withe skin...

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Fred

Hi JP,
Yes technically it is very easy, and you can find super small TX modules everywhere on ebay for example and on different frequencies.
But that doesn´t explain why the detector beeps in those particular videos, and it is what i would like to understand , like i said.
In fact it can pinpoint very well, but we can reject the fact that it works on a regular MD principle, because when wandering over watches, rings, cellphones and cameras, it doesn´t beep at all. This is why i observed that it only beeps when one gives attention to it and expect it to do so.
There are more strange behaviors i remarked, but details only.

Hi Fred

If you want i can give to you the contact for you to speak with the french man,this one from the LRL videos,and maybe you can learn more about what hapens there in the forest.
He is a metal detector dealer,he ask Alonso for demonstrate his LRL products in Europe. I dont know if they make a deal or not.
Also see the thread from Gibon.

Regards

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hi Fred

If you want i can give to you the contact for you to speak with the french man,this one from the LRL videos,and maybe you can learn more about what hapens there in the forest.
He is a metal detector dealer,he ask Alonso for demonstrate his LRL products in Europe. I dont know if they make a deal or not.
Also see the thread from Gibon.

Regards

Hi Mprgan,

When you test the best Mineoro locators that you have used in Europe, for an average sunny day of treasure hunting, did you find the same detection performance as you see in the French videos?

Do you see better performance than you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding?
Do you see worse performance as you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding?
Do you see the same performance as you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding?

Which of the Mineoro locators you used with your own hands in Europe finds the best performance?
Which of the Mineoro locators you used with your own hands in Europe finds the worst performance?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi.

I'll tell you an experience with my Mineoro PDC210 Super. There is a point on the roadside in a village where there are many ancient tombs. In one of these points i took a mark with Iconos. Depending on the temperature and humidity could find the point by a distance of 3 .... 80 meters. Tried two different days to locate the point with the Mineoro but not succeeded even above the point. Although for me they are both electrostatic detectors do not understand why Iconos locates the point while the Mineoro not.

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Mprgan,

When you test the best Mineoro locators that you have used in Europe, for an average sunny day of treasure hunting, did you find the same detection performance as you see in the French videos?

Do you see better performance than you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding? No
Do you see worse performance as you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding? Yes
Do you see the same performance as you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding? No

Which of the Mineoro locators you used with your own hands in Europe finds the best performance?
Which of the Mineoro locators you used with your own hands in Europe finds the worst performance?



Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.
Red letters are my answer from my experience.

Regards

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Mprgan,

When you test the best Mineoro locators that you have used in Europe, for an average sunny day of treasure hunting, did you find the same detection performance as you see in the French videos?

Do you see better performance than you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding?
Do you see worse performance as you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding?
Do you see the same performance as you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding?

Which of the Mineoro locators you used with your own hands in Europe finds the best performance?
Which of the Mineoro locators you used with your own hands in Europe finds the worst performance?


Best wishes,
J_P

Here is the list of MINEORO MODELS i try in Europe in good sunny day:

PDC210

DCH85

DC2006

DC2008

FG80


No one detect target like we see in the Mineoro video,and with DC2006 model i never find any signals,is a quiet LRL.
FG80 belongs to Connie,and she did not find any targets...

This is why i find the FG90 with some tricky transmiter operating somewere.

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Mprgan,

When you test the best Mineoro locators that you have used in Europe, for an average sunny day of treasure hunting, did you find the same detection performance as you see in the French videos?

Do you see better performance than you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding?
Do you see worse performance as you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding?
Do you see the same performance as you see Alonso and the French treasure hunters finding?

Which of the Mineoro locators you used with your own hands in Europe finds the best performance?
Which of the Mineoro locators you used with your own hands in Europe finds the worst performance?


Best wishes,
J_P

Same performance NO,but the small gold earing i can locate with PD not more than 2 meter,is very small object.With FG90 i see maybe 5 m ?

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi J_P.
Red letters are my answer from my experience.

Regards

Hello

And do you think the ICONOS is locating the ancient tombs or maybe some powerline???

I see big diference between PDC210 Super and the later Mineoro models,the first one is much more sensitive to power lines,this is why we not try this model when you was in my country. If i turn ON the PDC start beeps imediatly,to test this LRL i need more than 100m away from any electrical source.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hello

And do you think the ICONOS is locating the ancient tombs or maybe some powerline???

I see big diference between PDC210 Super and the later Mineoro models,the first one is much more sensitive to power lines,this is why we not try this model when you was in my country. If i turn ON the PDC start beeps imediatly,to test this LRL i need more than 100m away from any electrical source.

I see videos of good Mineoro performance only when Alonso and other people from the factory are in the video.

Maybe it is better to use dowsing rods.
With dowsing rods you can also watch them point to the direction of power lines and empty holes.
But at least the dowsing rod does not give you a wallet washing.

When you hunt for treasure the idea is to look at your wallet at the end of the year and see how your wallet has more money, not less.



Best wishes,
J_P