Testing

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Morgan

Hello MASTER p00p

you understand me wrongly. I dont say that...

I agree with Esteban,but phenomenon regenerate in the next minutes or hours.
As you can read in my other thread,first i use PD to locate the target,and then scan&check the place with NEXUS,NO SIGNALS,then i take out 20cm of ground(in the place PD give the continuous beeps),et voilá,my NEXUS detect old silver coin at 30cm. It was at 50 cm before,and PD detect from 3m away.

Kind regards

Is better don't use MD in your test area for pistol because the oscillations consumes the phenomenon. We leave a MD in on 1 hour in the site used for try pistol. This consume totally and the "charge" was restarted in many days due the detector was put by 1 hour. Also rays in the nearby consumes it.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Esteban,
Thank you for your dissertation on detection disappearing when you remove the target. This is interesting information. But it does not answer my question.

My main question was:
"How does this prove that there are emissions, rather than absorption? Isn't it possible that it is responding to something that is neither an emission or absorption"? What I am trying to find out is "how do you know this machine is absorbing emissions"?

From what you have posted, it appears that your machine is only showing different "beeping responses" when the target is removed, which has convinced you that your machine is absorbing emissions. However, I am not convinced. I do not believe there are any emissions from the "phenomenon" area except an increase in radionuclides for long time buried metals. And it also seems that your machine is not capable of counting radionuclides. Therefore, I speculate that you are detecting an anomaly of some sort, -- not emissions.

In the case of metal at the surface, the primary anomalies that come to mind are centered around radio reception, passive antenna elements, and possible voltage anomalies, not emissions.

Have you seen some evidence to convince you that your machine is absorbing emissions that you have not posted about yet?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P

I use "emission" because some very sensitive instrument that enlarge a short pulse 100,000,000 times show the target in wide angle, so is difficult to centrate due the anomaly. But the anomaly only is detectable or better detectable when target is buried for many years and near surface, 10-30 cm. When small target is very deeply maybe you obtain few detection or only a beep, except if the mass is a treasure.

I use "absorption" because I consider that a loop with a toroid can absorb some magnetic-electric anomaly around such targets.

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Hi J_P

I use "emission" because some very sensitive instrument that enlarge a short pulse 100,000,000 times show the target in wide angle, so is difficult to centrate due the anomaly. But the anomaly only is detectable or better detectable when target is buried for many years and near surface, 10-30 cm. When small target is very deeply maybe you obtain few detection or only a beep, except if the mass is a treasure.

I use "absorption" because I consider that a loop with a toroid can absorb some magnetic-electric anomaly around such targets.

Regards

Esteban

Now I don't understand a word... sorry.

I think this LRL is something black magic maybe... need some shimano stuff... or something cause I don't have a clue of how that stuff will detect any target.

What does it mean you think the toroid catch signal by absorption ???

It's not the meaning of JP words: he asked why you're so sure there's emission and not absorpption BUT at target... not at detector.

It's self-explaining that e.g. a receiver... magnetic receiver (like your toroid stuff) will get part of energy of supposed signal (a magnetic signal in that case) cause it's how a magnetic receiver is supposed to work...

I really don't understand why don't you answer about questions but other issues...

Do you have any dubt that e.g. a tape recorder head emits energy ???

From when ? Usually tape heads are passive receivers...inductive sensors... the magnetic dipoles "stored" on the tape and moving when tape moves make dphi/dt... then you have a dphi/dt (the flux variation vs time) related voltage signal at tape head due to the magnetic induction at coil there.

What the hell you mean the toroid absorpiton ??? Dang... it's impossible talking of serious stuff here...

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Is better don't use MD in your test area for pistol because the oscillations consumes the phenomenon. We leave a MD in on 1 hour in the site used for try pistol. This consume totally and the "charge" was restarted in many days due the detector was put by 1 hour. Also rays in the nearby consumes it.

So... one says that the MD has no effect.... the other says that the phenomenon is consumed by the oscillator of MD...

Then what do you all understand by that ???

I understand that even people that say they have working LRLs have a clear idea of influence of e.g. an extrenal oscillator near the target!

In the better scenario... they all have a different view and perspective of LRL beeps... that's what I say.

Kind regards,
Max

[Esteban]

We need two forums: a place in where you post jokes and other more serious.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Max

Do you have any dubt that e.g. a tape recorder head emits energy ???

In "record" mode it does...to erase the tape

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I use "emission" because some very sensitive instrument that enlarge a short pulse 100,000,000 times show the target in wide angle, so is difficult to centrate due the anomaly. But the anomaly only is detectable or better detectable when target is buried for many years and near surface, 10-30 cm. When small target is very deeply maybe you obtain few detection or only a beep, except if the mass is a treasure.

I use "absorption" because I consider that a loop with a toroid can absorb some magnetic-electric anomaly around such targets.

From what you are saying, this machine uses a toroid coil as a sensor in a passive receiver. is this correct? And the pulse stretcher is showing that there is a pulse being sensed in the toroid coil?

If I am correct, then you are saying that long time buried metals near the surface occasionally give a very short electromagnetic pulse that can be sensed with a toroid coil, and these pulses can be seen if you have an amplifier that can stretch the pulse to a viewable width and display it. When the long time buried metal is removed from the ground, then these pulses no longer can be sensed.
Therefore this machine is absorbing emissions from long time buried metals. Is this correct?

Best wishes,
J_P

[detectoman]

hello; i think one treasure have 3 principal fhurter emisions, differents, and 9 low secundary subemision, all diferent, all these can be detected for multiply ways, too for ultrasound, infrared and others
dman.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Detectoman

hello; i think one treasure have 3 principal fhurter emisions, differents, and 9 low secundary subemision, all diferent, all these can be detected for multiply ways, too for ultrasound, infrared and others
dman.

Hi Dman,
Can you list the 3 principle emissions that you think a single treasure has, and the 9 low secondary submissions?

There may be a language difference between the English meaning and the Spanish meaning of the word "emission". When we say the word "emission" in English, we are usually talking about discharging or expelling something that is sent out from the metal. This is not the same as when a metal is causing a deformity in the magnetic field of the earth. ie: When a buried iron plate deforms the field of the earth, and you can detect this with a magnetometer, then this iron plate is not considered to be making an emission. It is only causing a local anomaly in the earth's field.

When we say a metal is making an emission we are usually talking about the metal discharging or expelling something such as listed below:
The metal can emit subatomic particles (gamma emission)
The metal can emit heat (hot metal sending out heat)
The metal can emit light (very hot glowing metal)
The metal can emit a charge (sending out electrons or charged particles that you collect in a drift tube or other charge collector)

Maybe the metal can emit an electronic pulse as in Esteban's description, if that pulse originates in the metal, not from the earth's magnetic field, earth's electric field, from broadcast radio waves, from a lightning storm in the distance, or other naturally occurring signal from outside the buried metal.

Some other properties that can be detected are not emissions. These would include simple anomalies in the earth's magnetic field, the earth's electric field, the earth's space charges, etc. The reason I was asking Esteban, is to try to determine if the long time buried metal is actually sending out a signal that originates in the buried metal and surrounding soil, or if this phenomenon area is only causing some other normally occurring earth signal to be amplified and made detectable when long time buried metal is under the ground nearby.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

Originally Posted by Fred

In "record" mode it does...to erase the tape

Yes sure...

I had to write "player" not recorder!

I put it wrong.... but of course the play-head doesn't emit anything.... just get signals from dphi/dt stuff... magnetic induction.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

From what you are saying, this machine uses a toroid coil as a sensor in a passive receiver. is this correct? And the pulse stretcher is showing that there is a pulse being sensed in the toroid coil?

If I am correct, then you are saying that long time buried metals near the surface occasionally give a very short electromagnetic pulse that can be sensed with a toroid coil, and these pulses can be seen if you have an amplifier that can stretch the pulse to a viewable width and display it. When the long time buried metal is removed from the ground, then these pulses no longer can be sensed.
Therefore this machine is absorbing emissions from long time buried metals. Is this correct?

Best wishes,
J_P

I think too he wrote that things... at least I understud like you... then there will be something at target... or target itself that will generate that short EM pulses the toroid coil will "see".

But an ultrashort pulse ???

That seems fiction... I can understand if he wrote e.g. electric potential or magnetic anomaly... but a pulse ??? ultrashort also ??? picoseconds ???

We heard of picoseconds before... with e.g. Iconos faked leCroy screenshot... do you remember ?

Ok... I try to be more serious... and try to suppose what can generate an ultrashort (in duration) EM pulse...

I see just one possible explaination: nuclear particles... if a nuclear particle will e.g. "stimulate" a back emission of an EM quantum the Esteban's theory of ultrashort EM pulse could have a physics explaination...

Suppose e.g. the gold target is sorrounded by e.g. some gold ions (we know that's possible somehow in very small quantities over very long time buried stuff... in ideal environment for that): a gold ion or dispersed atom could absorb some incident particle energy and scatter back some short EM pulse... why not ?

The problem is that the supposes device MUST catch that scattering... and this couldn't be so simple in reality... unless using e.g. some photomultiplier tube or similar stuff... I don't see in simple PD pistols and the like...

So what ?

I don't know... maybe is just a big PILE required for such scattering...

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Max

But an ultrashort pulse ???

That seems fiction... I can understand if he wrote e.g. electric potential or magnetic anomaly... but a pulse ??? ultrashort also ??? picoseconds ???

We heard of picoseconds before... with e.g. Iconos faked leCroy screenshot... do you remember ?

Hi Max,
I remember the picoseconds and the fake oscilloscope screen from paint shop editing shown by Iconos. This pulse sounds similar to what Esteban is describing. Also I recall a discussion between Geo and Esteban where words were said about Esteban's connections with Iconos, that Esteban denied. But this tells us nothing about the mystery pulse, whether it is emitted from gold and soil, or only amplified by the anomaly.

Originally Posted by Max

I see just one possible explaination: nuclear particles... if a nuclear particle will e.g. "stimulate" a back emission of an EM quantum the Esteban's theory of ultrashort EM pulse could have a physics explaination...

Suppose e.g. the gold target is sorrounded by e.g. some gold ions (we know that's possible somehow in very small quantities over very long time buried stuff... in ideal environment for that): a gold ion or dispersed atom could absorb some incident particle energy and scatter back some short EM pulse... why not ?

The problem is that the supposes device MUST catch that scattering... and this couldn't be so simple in reality... unless using e.g. some photomultiplier tube or similar stuff... I don't see in simple PD pistols and the like...

Yes, it is true that long time buried gold usually does release ions into the soil which can emit gamma radiation due to the interaction of other incident subatomic particles. Long time buried gold has been detected by sensing this exact radionuclide emission for several decades using a photomultiplier tube as you described. The rocket scientists who built this sensing equipment were never successful in sensing and stretching a very short EM pulse from a coil coinciding with the gamma capture, and displaying the pulse on an oscilloscope,.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Aparently the effect works with any metal, not only gold. Aluminium in particular seem to be a good metal for LRL...

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

Aparently the effect works with any metal, not only gold. Aluminium in particular seem to be a good metal for LRL...

Hi Fred,
Large deposits of gold, copper, silver, aluminum, tin, lead, and even petroleum have been found by counting the radionuclide emissions from long time buried ores in survey studies.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

The amplifier I use is for to capture short 20 ns pulses that can be enlarged 100,000,000 times. This simple circuit exists. In general, I use an antenna here.

I consider that the targets buried for long time produces spontaneous potential:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_potential

Max, never I said that the target emmits nanosecond pulses. Just refer need a rapid system for to "assure" the detection: Stretcher in this case.

Max, you made false interpretation. Max, you're very confussed.

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

If is possible monitoring such variation of voltage and "see" differences between 1 milivolt to 1 volt along 1 km ("infinite"), so I can detect few meters with my detectors.

[Esteban]

"Battery" into the Earth by metal and ores, etc. Of course, I think that this is the motive why solid good conductive metalic body buried for long time causes MORE REMARCABLE effects.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...gnetic-methods

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

From what you are saying, this machine uses a toroid coil as a sensor in a passive receiver. is this correct? And the pulse stretcher is showing that there is a pulse being sensed in the toroid coil?

If I am correct, then you are saying that long time buried metals near the surface occasionally give a very short electromagnetic pulse that can be sensed with a toroid coil, and these pulses can be seen if you have an amplifier that can stretch the pulse to a viewable width and display it. When the long time buried metal is removed from the ground, then these pulses no longer can be sensed.
Therefore this machine is absorbing emissions from long time buried metals. Is this correct?

Best wishes,
J_P

Various methods into this category.

1. Toroidal with loop as antenna, only for electromagnetic variations.

2. Toroidal with stretcher.

3. Stretcher with antenna. This shows "high" electrical "activity" due open base stretcher amplify millions times and can shows weak variation as a great "signal".

Respond the red part. If the circuit is the enough sensitive, when you remove the target and plant it immediately, few detections occurs, but go in degradation. Now, and this is the incredivel part (this can be discovered because whe investigate, not only recover the target), if you remove the target, the detection occurs in the empty place by short time. And dissapears. We call this effect "remanence". So, we conclude that the target affects the place. In 30 seconds or less, dissapears the "phenomenon". We made this experiment when found a good silver XIX century buckle buried at 15 cm.

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Max,
I remember the picoseconds and the fake oscilloscope screen from paint shop editing shown by Iconos. This pulse sounds similar to what Esteban is describing. Also I recall a discussion between Geo and Esteban where words were said about Esteban's connections with Iconos, that Esteban denied. But this tells us nothing about the mystery pulse, whether it is emitted from gold and soil, or only amplified by the anomaly.
Yes, it is true that long time buried gold usually does release ions into the soil which can emit gamma radiation due to the interaction of other incident subatomic particles. Long time buried gold has been detected by sensing this exact radionuclide emission for several decades using a photomultiplier tube as you described. The rocket scientists who built this sensing equipment were never successful in sensing and stretching a very short EM pulse from a coil coinciding with the gamma capture, and displaying the pulse on an oscilloscope,.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi JP,
thanks for remember to me that facts , I remember also you had discussions with the scientist (german rocket scientist if I remember well) about all that stuff.

Sure, I also belive in e.g. ore sensing by gamma rays... I do belive that all that technology is far more actractive than simple devices like e.g. rf receivers we see posted here.

It's a big challenge detecting such small gamma emission from gold or other material , but possible and fully explained by particles physics... so I do strongly belive in that technology.

I had experiences working for a while for a big oil/gas company (developing software mostly) but then I saw also, on teh field, the real cool stuff... gamma well logging sensors!

So I know very well the effectiveness of such kind of sensors...and technologies... and not only for the use in boreholes. Some are passive only but some are like gamma camera, there's a source of radiations then a sensor collects scattered emissions from rocks.

And... what to say... they was Shlumberger stuff... and they really rocks!

I think LRL guys will never spot which technology level we are talking about...

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Fred,
Large deposits of gold, copper, silver, aluminum, tin, lead, and even petroleum have been found by counting the radionuclide emissions from long time buried ores in survey studies.

Best wishes,
J_P

holy words.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Max

Hi JP,
thanks for remember to me that facts , I remember also you had discussions with the scientist (german rocket scientist if I remember well) about all that stuff.

Sure, I also belive in e.g. ore sensing by gamma rays... I do belive that all that technology is far more actractive than simple devices like e.g. rf receivers we see posted here.

It's a big challenge detecting such small gamma emission from gold or other material , but possible and fully explained by particles physics... so I do strongly belive in that technology.

I had experiences working for a while for a big oil/gas company (developing software mostly) but then I saw also, on teh field, the real cool stuff... gamma well logging sensors!

So I know very well the effectiveness of such kind of sensors...and technologies... and not only for the use in boreholes. Some are passive only but some are like gamma camera, there's a source of radiations then a sensor collects scattered emissions from rocks.

And... what to say... they was Shlumberger stuff... and they really rocks!

I think LRL guys will never spot which technology level we are talking about...

Kind regards,
Max

Only talking... Maybe you can't put all this big apparatus into a handle pistol, so is not practical here. If you work in oil company, don't know why you don't know about this spontaneous potential occurs in Earth causes by ores and oxidized metals...

Regards

Esteban

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

If is possible monitoring such variation of voltage and "see" differences between 1 milivolt to 1 volt along 1 km ("infinite"), so I can detect few meters with my detectors.

Hi,
no... I'm not so confused...

But you are when talk of 1Km far away detection...

In SP measures there's a ground electrode that is connected to ground far from the actual electrode-probe you use to take measures.

The fact is that one electrode (the static one) is put into the ground at a very great distance from the place where you take readings.

Then the other probe will be in the place where need to read the voltage.

Just that. It's not remote , 1Km away detection, the probe you use for reading voltage in a point is just in contact with that point over the soil (or in the borehole in the case of logging).

The measure of SP this way have nothing to do with remote sensing.

If you mean instead that you can read small potential changes by electrometer, so not touching the soil, but by e.g. electrostatic induction I say it's possible with a sensitive electrometer... I think this is the idea of using zahori circuits: spotting electrostatic anomalies... like a small drop in the potential at a fixed height.

Now it's clear ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Only talking... Maybe you can't put all this big apparatus into a handle pistol, so is not practical here. If you work in oil company, don't know why you don't know about this spontaneous potential occurs in Earth causes by ores and oxidized metals...

Regards

Esteban

Hi,
indeed I know that from many years... but the way I know is different from proposed remote sensing... you have to place electrodes , one fixed in the groudn, the other into the well... that touch where to measure...

indeed there are multiple logging sensors on same "head" fro that and SP electrode is just one

BTW I do not work at now for any oil/gas company and I'm not a geologist... so even if I know some of these stuff don't mean I have a crystal clear picture of e.g. reactions involved... but remember one friend there at geo-department of that ...company had maybe hundreds of books on that topic! Must ask him!

Kind regards,
Max

[detectoman]

i cant say exackly what emisions, i know these for law of analogies, may be, energy elecricity and micro particulas ( ions ) in the subemisions, may be radiation, gas, field, magnetic electostatic static and others, all these can be detect for ideonus apropiate s detector
so need very power rx, ics are inahabilited due to nearby of components, these derivate the interaccions in hig gain, may be, i m only teorically and study fenomens in general, not in minucious specifications
may be too these anyone energy of treasure can be detect for human hig sensitivity and concentration
jajaja or whit ideomotor, and wires in hands clear in optimes circumstances
one man of mexico detect only whit palm of hands and discriminate gold or silver jajaja i not see these i look the report in page of hunters in internet buscadores de tesoros, but msn go out these group
bye apologies for my bad english
i am of new shoes whit my new pc congratulations me hahaha jajaja

[detectoman]

apologies, 3 principal emissions, electricity waves, frecuence oscilation, and 3 principal rx , in form absortive, rf heat etc the idea is these
not alone one emission, or radiation, but very much, one short distance other hig distance but major quest to internet jajajaj