US Department of Justice Identifies MFD and HID as Worthless Dowsing Gadgets

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by WM6

Except Anti-devil Onion Trans-natural Bio-LRL .

This one is only needed in the final days of the tribulations when minds are most susceptible to control?

Maybe good to stay away from LRLs, but fun to laugh in the LRL forum ...

Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

You should read more on dowsing history. Many priests were dowsers. Some even say that Jesus was a dowser. Many of his miracles are very similar to dowsing.

I recall a young math genius who thought Christ was the Devil. He went into a church with a sledge hammer and a gun, killed the caretaker smashed many marble artworks and shot a couple of ROTC guys, then tried to burn down the church before the cops killed him.

Dowsing is also referred to as "divining". Now when you get into the Black Magic your dealing with evil intent. Dowsing for personal gain does not seem to fit that category.

[Kev]

Lets just say, LRL, diving, dowsing whatever you want to call it, is a miracle....because its principles of operation are beyond all physical reason.
But beware rationalisations because if you do, you have fallen into the deception...their power is ultimately from the darkside, and not even priests are immune if they dabble.

Cheers
Kev.

[Mike(Mont)]

I posted what I did to explain that dowsing is not demonic. It's bogus to make some generalization to the contrary.

[Mike(Mont)]

This thread is not about dowsing. It's also a mistake to equate MFD/HID with dowsing. Some people refuse to ackmowledge that the original units did not use L-rods--they had electronic receivers. Now I admit these are not anywhere near 100% reliable (they are highly suseptable to interference and it takes a longer time afterwards for the signal line to develop enough for the receiver to detect it) but just try and use the receiver without the transmitter. It won't work and it's not dowsing.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Kev

...The demons aren't interested in finding Explosives, they want to screw with peoples minds and incite grandiose visions of wealth and power, and LRL dowsing is a good way to do it, because it opens the channel of mind submission and control....

My advice is stay well away from LRL it's as bad as ouija

Regards
Kev.

Hi Kev,
I really like your technical posts in other forums. You are one of the best. And now you got me interested in this explanation of dowsing. It appears there are two mechanisms at work here: 1. Opening a channel of mind submission, and 2. inciting visions of wealth and power. I can see how the idea of dowsing to find treasure can be motivated by finding wealth, and it is done in a manner where the mind may be manipulated to become submissive to unknown influences.

We also see some semi-electronic devices that might fall into this category too. But somewhere there is a dividing line between metal detectors and dowsing gear. I mean, it is hard for me to imagine an average coin shooter out digging coins with his VLF detector as being in a "submissive" state of mind. It seems he is just out doing some recreational scavenging. Yet there is other electronic gear that looks like dowsing, but is claimed not to be dowsing, and works on some different principle. I was wondering your opinion if the kind of equipment shown below can be considered safe, or is it best to avoid?

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

This thread is not about dowsing. It's also a mistake to equate MFD/HID with dowsing.

Why is that a mistake?

A receiver rod used with an MFD device still requires an ideomotor response from the operator before it will move (indicate).

A receiver rod used without an MFD device also requires an ideomotor response from the operator before it will move (indicate).

If you think/claim there is a difference, please post a simple experiment, that any of us can do to demonstrate this difference.

receiver rod, being any of a variety of L-shaped bent rods or wires.

[Dell Winders]

I know how all these LRLs work.....spiritism...the Bible gives the answer, near the end of human rulership of the world this occurs.

Revelation 12:9 "The huge serpent was thrown down. That ancient snake, named Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world, was thrown down to earth. Its angels were thrown down with it."

I know the demons are there, I've seen some really weird things during my 50 years. The demons aren't interested in finding Explosives, they want to screw with peoples minds and incite grandiose visions of wealth and power, and LRL dowsing is a good way to do it, because it opens the channel of mind submission and control....

I know this sounds really weird and your probably writing me off as just as nutty as the LRL people, but considering what I've seen and experienced it certainly explains why sometimes in the right hands LRL does seem to work, but hell there's no way I'm going to sell my soul to Satan, not even for all the gold in China!

My advice is stay well away from LRL it's as bad as ouija

Regards
Kev.

It appears that Kev, and Theseus, speak from personal experience, or from some sense of cosmic awareness that the rest of us do not posses. Living in modern times, perhaps they believe Edgar Cayce, was an evil man? Or that television, or computers, are the work of the devil? Or, even believe James Randi, the Skeptic's guru, is an honest and Godly man?

It's true, and provable, that the earlier Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination instruments were totally electronic, and the signals were electronically metered. But, it was also proven over and over again that under the same field conditions that allowed the electronics to respond, the signals could also be metered with the reactions of a pair of handheld L-Rods. When the electronic instruments didn't respond under some Magnetic conditions, neither did the Rods. This prompted years of open minded field studies to understand this correlation.

No one was mindful that these studies were under the influence of Demonic possession?

According to most religions, Satan's powers of deception are far beyond the recognition and comprehension of mortal man. Like most, I probably don't recognize when intelligent, notable, trustful, and seemingly nice people are unmindful, or intentionally doing the will of Satan.

Belief is not a determining factor for me. Facts are. It either works in accordance to the physics of nature, or it won't work, and belief will not make it work, nor will belief, or unfounded presumption make it not work.

Considering their CLOSED MINDED, PREJUDICED BELIEFS, My advice would be to stay far away from Kev, and Theseus.

In light of truth and provable fact, their presumptions are as accurate as advice from a proclaimed Skeptics Ouija board. Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

In light of truth and provable fact, their presumptions are as accurate as advice from a proclaimed Skeptics Ouija board. Dell

Isn't that an oxymoron?

[Max]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

It appears that Kev, and Theseus, speak from personal experience, or from some sense of cosmic awareness that the rest of us do not posses. Living in modern times, perhaps they believe Edgar Cayce, was an evil man? Or that television, or computers, are the work of the devil? Or, even believe James Randi, the Skeptic's guru, is an honest and Godly man?

It's true, and provable, that the earlier Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination instruments were totally electronic, and the signals were electronically metered. But, it was also proven over and over again that under the same field conditions that allowed the electronics to respond, the signals could also be metered with the reactions of a pair of handheld L-Rods. When the electronic instruments didn't respond under some Magnetic conditions, neither did the Rods. This prompted years of open minded field studies to understand this correlation.

No one was mindful that these studies were under the influence of Demonic possession?

According to most religions, Satan's powers of deception are far beyond the recognition and comprehension of mortal man. Like most, I probably don't recognize when intelligent, notable, trustful, and seemingly nice people are unmindful, or intentionally doing the will of Satan.

Belief is not a determining factor for me. Facts are. It either works in accordance to the physics of nature, or it won't work, and belief will not make it work, nor will belief, or unfounded presumption make it not work.

Considering their CLOSED MINDED, PREJUDICED BELIEFS, My advice would be to stay far away from Kev, and Theseus.

In light of truth and provable fact, their presumptions are as accurate as advice from a proclaimed Skeptics Ouija board. Dell

You don't need the Satan's cookbook for to make your crappy paintrollers and omnif$ck detectors!

Or maybe the hot melt glue was suggested by Satan ???

And if so... can we consider that as an ectoplasm!

BTW Dell how are you ! Hope you well...

Kind regards,
Max

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

It's true, and provable, that the earlier Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination instruments were totally electronic, and the signals were electronically metered. Dell

That Is A Bold-faced Lie!

If the (imaginary) signals were measurable with electronic instrumentation, there would never have been a reason to employ a set of ordinary dowsing rods with each of your do-nothing MFD units.

The L-rods are required because they will respond to the ideomotor effect. The ideomotor effect is required because the idea of signal lines was concocted to fool the gullible and technically-challenged (ie. Mike) and to make it easier to market bogus LRL products.

[Dell Winders]

BTW Dell how are you ! Hope you well...

Kind regards,
Max

Thanks for asking. Certainly, I wish I was more physically capable, but other than that I am surviving.

The economic situation got a boost this month with the probably of participation in major projects in Utah, and the Bahamas.

Apparently, my paint roller services precede me and were recommended by two separate Archaeologist, and a Geologist. They may even know more about Earth Science physics, than the Scientific pretenders that post on this forum. I don't see why they would put their reputations on the line to recommend me if they didn't feel their confidence in my knowledge, and ability with what you call, "paint rollers" was justified.

I suspect the financiers of these projects will be well pleased with the results. We will have to wait to see how petty skeptics, and the Governments respond. Dell

[Dell Winders]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dell Winders
It's true, and provable, that the earlier Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination instruments were totally electronic, and the signals were electronically metered. Dell


That Is A Bold-faced Lie!

If the (imaginary) signals were measurable with electronic instrumentation, there would never have been a reason to employ a set of ordinary dowsing rods with each of your do-nothing MFD units.

The L-rods are required because they will respond to the ideomotor effect. The ideomotor effect is required because the idea of signal lines was concocted to fool the gullible and technically-challenged (ie. Mike) and to make it easier to market bogus LRL products

Theseus, and your many other aliases, with your constant demonstrations of Stupidity and Ignorance on this subject, it's really not wise to call me a Liar, unless you can back up your allegations with proof, and a substantial financial risk? Dell

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Theseus, and your many other aliases, with your constant demonstrations of Stupidity and Ignorance on this subject, it's really not wise to call me a Liar, unless you can back up your allegations with proof, and a substantial financial risk? Dell

You've been asked thousands of times over many decades to demonstrate electronic metering of your imaginary signal lines. To this date, you've not come forth with even a single spec of evidence, or supporting documentation.

In the words of a now famous Congressman; You Lie!

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Apparently, my paint roller services precede me and were recommended by two separate Archaeologist, and a Geologist.

At least you have a sense of humor.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

...Apparently, my paint roller services precede me and were recommended by two separate Archaeologist, and a Geologist. They may even know more about Earth Science physics, than the Scientific pretenders that post on this forum. I don't see why they would put their reputations on the line to recommend me if they didn't feel their confidence in my knowledge, and ability with what you call, "paint rollers" was justified.

Hi Dell,
It's good to hear the economic situation got a boost this month. Will you be traveling soon in connection with your services for these major projects in Utah, and the Bahamas?

Archaeologists and especially Geologists are known to have some knowledge of earth sciences because of their credentials. So if your services were recommended by these three people, these are impressive recommendations. Can you tell us more about the two archaeologists and the geologist who recommended your services? Who are they?

Best Wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

You've been asked thousands of times over many decades to demonstrate electronic metering of your imaginary signal lines. To this date, you've not come forth with even a single spec of evidence, or supporting documentation.

Theseus, To establish your own credibility, can you be more specific? Who is it that has asked me thousands of times over decades? Apparently, it's not you. The name Theseus, is relativity new to this forum, and represented here as an apparently fictitious name with no credibility what so ever.

The only other complainant I am aware of is a certifiable Nut case Whacko, named Sam Scafferi, who has been kicked off of every Treasure forum he ever posted his real name on.

Again, show your proof that totally electronically metered Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination (MFD), that I used for 8 years, does not exist, and that I am lieing about it Please Go ahead, show any such factual proof to the viewers here that I am lieing about what I say.

I am fully aware that you are unable to back your words with truth, or evidence because you know as well as I, that your allegations are libel, false, and you are trying to deceive trusting viewers by pretending you know what you are talking about. Stupid is, as Stupid does.

Theseus, I challenge you show you have credibility, and back up your venomous allegations with substance, so viewers can clearly see the truthfulness of your comments. Otherwise, you are just another egotistical skeptic mental case seeking attention for your self at some one else's expense. Dell

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

your allegations are libel.... Dell

Guess you need to brush up some on legalities; among other things.

...adverse public statements about legal citizens presented as fact must be proven false to be defamatory or slanderous/libel.

In order for you to prove my statement false you will have to:

1. Show proof of the existence of something you call Signal Lines.
2. Show said Signal Lines being measured with electronic measuring devices (does not include L-rods or dowsing tools).
3. Demonstrate both 1. and 2. above to a panel of qualified dis-interested third-parties who can judge if you achieved both constraints 1. and 2. fairly and to their satisfaction.

Good luck....

[Seden]

Kev,

Map Dowsing could be along the lines of a ouija board where in the field using a dowsing rod for locating water is strictly a matter of detecting the electrostatic voltage generated by running water. That aspect has been documented and can be easily demonstrated by laying water hose in a straight line and turning the water on and walking with a metallic dowsing rod across it. In Junior High science class they would demonstrate a simple electroscope by turning on the water facet and placing the gold leafs in between the flow of water and the leafs react to the flow of water's electrostatic energy. Beyond that example I can not speak for dowsing. Lot's of theories that have been beaten to death on this and other forums ad nausium.

[Dell Winders]

Guess you need to brush up some on legalities; among other things.

...adverse public statements about legal citizens presented as fact must be proven false to be defamatory or slanderous/libel.

In order for you to prove my statement false you will have to:
Show proof of the existence of something you call Signal Lines.
Show said Signal Lines being measured with electronic measuring devices (does not include L-rods or dowsing tools).
Demonstrate both 1. and 2. above to a panel of qualified dis-interested third-parties who can judge if you achieved both constraints 1. and 2. fairly and to their satisfaction.
Good luck....

And what does this wiggle dance have to do with proof of your truthfullness, and credibility. So, again I challenge you to demonstrate your credibility and truthfulness by showing the viewers tangible proof of your venom mouthed allegations that I am lieing about my use of totally electronic metering of Remote Sensing Frequency Discrimination (MFD) signals for a period of 8 years.

Come on Theseus, here is your chance, and perfect opportunity to prove your truthfullness and credibility to those here that trust and support you, and to all the viewers. Surely, a person of your credentials wouldn't propagate lies about me and try to deceive the folks here, would you?

Any body here think that Theseus, is credible and are willing to support his word without his showing any tangible evidence whatsoever to prove his allegation?

Stupid is, as Stupid does! Dell

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,
I never saw any proof by anybody about signal lines existing, only a lot of claims. Nor did I ever see anyone prove a location for those alleged "signal lines" location with any standard electronic instruments or dowsing instruments or other instruments. And I never saw any proof of any equipment working that you have listed for sale on your web page.

But for the question of electronics inside your instruments, I am pretty well convinced you have a good stable frequency generator inside your X-scan. From what I read in the forum, it is a modern and well designed circuit. I guess that doesn't say anything to prove signal lines exist or not, but the frequency generator is not a fake generator. It's good quality in my opinion.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Map Dowsing could be along the lines of a ouija board where in the field using a dowsing rod for locating water is strictly a matter of detecting the electrostatic voltage generated by running water. That aspect has been documented and can be easily demonstrated by laying water hose in a straight line and turning the water on and walking with a metallic dowsing rod across it. In Junior High science class they would demonstrate a simple electroscope by turning on the water facet and placing the gold leafs in between the flow of water and the leafs react to the flow of water's electrostatic energy. Beyond that example I can not speak for dowsing. Lot's of theories that have been beaten to death on this and other forums ad nausium.

Seden, it's refreshing to see that you are one of the few people here who doesn't argue against the simple application of L-Rods to elementary physics.

As a second example, an electrical cord with electricity running through it to a light bulb, or appliance will also generate a detectable "field', that can be metered with hand held L-Rods.

Stupidity, and ignorance, prevails among those here that disregard these two examples as being strictly a sub conscious, ideomotor controlled muscle movement of the L-rods. I suspect there will be denial, and argument that it is impossible for physics to be involved in a hand held L-Rod's reaction to a target "Field".

Thanks for speaking honestly from your own experience. Dell

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Stupidity, and ignorance, prevails among those here that disregard these two examples as being strictly a sub conscious, ideomotor controlled muscle movement of the L-rods. I suspect there will be denial, and argument that it is impossible for physics to be involved in a hand held L-Rod's reaction to a target "Field".

Why all the so-called "inventors" believe that the science began with them, although answers regarding their "inventions" were given by the real science long before they were born?

They prefer the other accused of ignorance and stupidity, but do not want to learn and read, for example this book from way back in 1952 (first published):


Illusions and delusions of the supernatural and the occult (The psychology of the occult) (Author) D. H. Rawcliffe

from Table of contents:

[Qiaozhi]

There is also this one ->

http://www.amazon.com/Skeptics-Dicti...3177164&sr=1-1

[Theseus]

Bum... diddty... do... da.... doing the Dell Winders Two-Step.

Dance and dance, but when you get all done dancing and running your mouth off; you still have to:

In order for you to prove my statement false you will have to:

1. Show proof of the existence of something you call Signal Lines.
2. Show said Signal Lines being measured with electronic measuring devices (does not include L-rods or dowsing tools).
3. Demonstrate both 1. and 2. above to a panel of qualified dis-interested third-parties who can judge if you achieved both constraints 1. and 2. fairly and to their satisfaction.