Post proof of working LRL

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Fred

That could be one more point to use metallic enclosure, so as long as position of enclosure is fixed batteries boards wires etc don´t matter any more, as they are inside .
About performances,any difference between wodd and metal?
Regards,
Fred.

Metal is better for to reject interference. Also my idea is to put batteries in metal sub-box, and cables of batteries shielded, seems extrange, but maybe interference also filtrates in long batteries lines. So, there are many considerations.

I built the EPE "Magnetic field detector" by Andy Flind. I change the common transformer by spiral coil and both pass electrolitic by ceramic for to stop the very low frequencies. Remember, the capacitors in inputs are the first filter. I put this in metal box, very different if you build in wood box. Metalic box is very better in this circuit.

Don't know why, you obtain strong signals in inland in X type of terrain, not causes by treasures, maybe teluric currents? Is rare, but occurs.

With some modifications this is a medium range MD. If you put many turns, for example, this is a spiral of 15 cm diameter, tends to catch since rifle cartridge. But if you build in toroid core 1.7 or 2 ohms and appropiate aluminium rectangular antenna, this filtrates much the bronze and comes silver, for example.

[Fred]

Robert,
I was referring to this :

Originally Posted by robert

Esteban, stop being smart ***! Papanic is not Me (RObert). I am not Papanic.As far as i know, Papanic is Ioannis Papanikolau from Cyprus,EE, RF. My college.Already met him couple times on seminars! I dont know his intereset about decision to post that schematic here and i dont give a **** about it. (etc...)

then:

Originally Posted by papanic

yes i have and you and antreas dont!
i dont give you nothing!
this schema is not lrl, is something else!
antreas steal but not understand it! ha,ha,ha,ha!
you also not understand it ha,ha,ha,ha!
yeas i am robert, so what!

And don´t worry about what i believe .It is precisely because i am listening to everyone and asking myself where is the truth that i posted this question to you.I am not taking anyone word as truth ,but some are consistent in their claims and others not...

Look at the situation:Esteban says he has built a device that works.He is not telling how he made it or how it works.
You say it is BS. but you dont backup your afirmation either.So i have no reason to believe you,more than anyone else talking about LRL.
Without tecnhical backup it´s just words.
At the beginning i was much more skeptical about this kind of LRL.Then i have observed and learnt.What can i say? i am less skeptical....that´s all.

Fred.

[J_Player]

Originally posted by Esteban
Who is able to dictate these rules?
Originally posted by J_Player
Carl dictated the rules for the remote sensing forum.
Originally posted by Esteban
This is in the case a X person decide to win the prize. Also I'm not electronic LRL seller or dealer.

No, this is not rules for people looking to win the prize or manufacturers. These are rules for all people who want to use the remote sensing forum. You can read here... http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?t=10529

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

The term "remote sensing" is used to describe scientifically viable methods of detecting geophysical anomalies from a distance. It is also used to describe the less scientific method of "long-range locating", which is engulfed in controversy.

This forum is for the open discussion of either method. Because LRL-oriented forums can quickly degrade into personal conflicts, this forum will be strictly controlled. Rules are still simple:

• You must be a registered user to post here. Guests may read.
• Be polite. Name calling will get you banned quickly.
• Be factual. If you make an extraordinary claim, be prepared to get challenged.

In general, try not to take differences of opinions personally.

Postings considered to be inflammatory can be reported to Admin by clicking the little red triangle icon at the top of each post. Please use this only when absolutely necessary... I would like to keep this forum as open as possible, and do not care to mediate every conversation.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I built the EPE "Magnetic field detector" by Andy Flind. I change the common transformer by spiral coil and both pass electrolitic by ceramic for to stop the very low frequencies.

Yes i remember this project, they says it can detect a train several kilometers away.At first i thought it was because of iron mass, but i believe it is because of strong electric field.
You say you detect strong signals "inland", does it mean that you dont have those signals near water?
If i understand well, the problem is that you need a detector sensistive enought to be "long range" and detect small objects, but if you make it too sensitive it detects too much interference and become unusuable, and too dependant of geographical position....
So you try filters and narrowing frequency range just like in good receivers.

Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

No, this is not rules for people looking to win the prize or manufacturers. These are rules for all people who want to use the remote sensing forum. You can read here... http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?t=10529
Best wishes,
J_P

I referring this

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Player
There are only two ways I know to prove a detector will find a target:
1. Watch someone use the detector to find targets and recover them.
2. Build an identical detector and see if it finds a target.

Best wishes,
J_P


The reference was regarding these possibilities, no general rules in Remote Sensing forum.

In reference the possibility # 1, I wacht, I find, I recover... So I fulfilled this part, other history is believe or not believe.

I respect general rules. I can do extraordinary claims, but I don't want the prize, for the moment, no.

Regards

Esteban

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by J_Player
There are only two ways I know to prove a detector will find a target:
1. Watch someone use the detector to find targets and recover them.
2. Build an identical detector and see if it finds a target.

Originally Posted by Esteban
The reference was regarding these possibilities, no general rules in Remote Sensing forum.

In reference the possibility # 1, I wacht, I find, I recover... So I fulfilled this part, other history is believe or not believe.

Yes, you fulfilled method 1 only for yourself and people who were at the location in 1981. Nobody else in this forum can take a ride in a time machine to see what you saw. We can only read posts made here. This leaves us with method 2 to prove the LRL works. But we have no proof from method 2 because nobody is capable of posting a complete schematic with instructions to build an identical detector.

There are many people who believe things they saw. Let's take an example: A small child believes Santa clause rides in a flying sled with reindeers, and climbs down the chimney to bring presents at Christmas time. He has seen the proof when he finds presents in the morning after Santa came. Also, the people he trusts, tell him it happened that way.

If we are to believe this child is correct and Santa really does fly in a sled with reindeers, then we will be stupid for not testing to make a copy of this flying sled and go flying just the same as the child tells us Santa does. The child is not lying to us, he really believes all this is true. But he has not provided proof, only some anecdotal stories that cannot be verified.

This is why I showed a method to submit proof without relying on anecdotal storiies. You choose not to give instructions so we can verify the findings you report. There is another way to prove it works without using the forum. Come and demonstrate it in front of people who know where there is long time buried targets. There are many of these places near where the treasure hunters live in the USA. We have the technology to properly document this today. You can also win the Randi proze for $1 million before returning home.

If you choose not to provide any proof that your detectors work, then people will think you are the same as the child who believes Santa flies in a sled. They will not believe it works until they see it working in their own hands.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Yes, you fulfilled method 1 only for yourself and people who were at the location in 1981. Nobody else in this forum can take a ride in a time machine to see what you saw. We can only read posts made here. This leaves us with method 2 to prove the LRL works. But we have no proof from method 2 because nobody is capable of posting a complete schematic with instructions to build an identical detector.

There are many people who believe things they saw. Let's take an example: A small child believes Santa clause rides in a flying sled with reindeers, and climbs down the chimney to bring presents at Christmas time. He has seen the proof when he finds presents in the morning after Santa came. Also, the people he trusts, tell him it happened that way.

If we are to believe this child is correct and Santa really does fly in a sled with reindeers, then we will be stupid for not testing to make a copy of this flying sled and go flying just the same as the child tells us Santa does. The child is not lying to us, he really believes all this is true. But he has not provided proof, only some anecdotal stories that cannot be verified.

This is why I showed a method to submit proof without relying on anecdotal storiies. You choose not to give instructions so we can verify the findings you report. There is another way to prove it works without using the forum. Come and demonstrate it in front of people who know where there is long time buried targets. There are many of these places near where the treasure hunters live in the USA. We have the technology to properly document this today. You can also win the Randi proze for $1 million before returning home.

If you choose not to provide any proof that your detectors work, then people will think you are the same as the child who believes Santa flies in a sled. They will not want to believe it works until they see it working in their own hands.

Best wishes,
J_P

Ho, ho, ho!!! J_P, yes, you're right. Except the photographic evidence I collect, you can check the negative films for specialist for to comprobe isn't a trick... But, maybe I can post a design called "Treasure sensor", for objects medium and big size, in the "other" forum.

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Fred

Yes i remember this project, they says it can detect a train several kilometers away.At first i thought it was because of iron mass, but i believe it is because of strong electric field.
You say you detect strong signals "inland", does it mean that you dont have those signals near water?
If i understand well, the problem is that you need a detector sensistive enought to be "long range" and detect small objects, but if you make it too sensitive it detects too much interference and become unusuable, and too dependant of geographical position....
So you try filters and narrowing frequency range just like in good receivers.

Regards,
Fred.

Just because is very sensitive to magnetic interferences, you can't use iron transformer, so if you modificate properly, is another history. Don't know what causes the strong signals in very apparted terrain, very apparted of electrical lines, industries, airports, buildings, etc.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Ho, ho, ho!!! J_P, yes, you're right. Except the photographic evidence I collect, you can check the negative films for specialist for to comprobe isn't a trick... But, maybe I can post a design called "Treasure sensor", for objects medium and big size, in the "other" forum.

OF course the photos show authentic treasures. But they don't prove these treasures were found with the pistol detector. They only show pictures of people with detectors in hand and treasures in hand. I can make similar photos without using any long range treasure machines. Maybe I can make a photo to show a coin in hand, and Robertoro detector in other hand, but Minelabs GPX-4000 metal detector is not shown in photo. Photo does not prove the performance of a metal detector. It only proves that somebody took a picture of the things we see in the image.

If you post a design called "Treasure sensor" that will find treasure farther than a metal detector, then people will be more likely to believe what you say is true and can be verified in their own hands.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

OF course the photos show authentic treasures. But they don't prove these treasures were found with the pistol detector. They only show pictures of people with detectors in hand and treasures in hand. I can make similar photos without using any long range treasure machines. Maybe I can make a photo to show a coin in hand, and Robertoro detector in other hand, but Minelabs GPX-4000 metal detector is not shown in photo. Photo does not prove the performance of a metal detector. It only proves that somebody took a picture of the things we see in the image.

If you post a design called "Treasure sensor" that will find treasure farther than a metal detector, then people will be more likely to believe what you say is true and can be verified in their own hands.

Best wishes,
J_P

So, if more people build similar to the "Treasure sensor" and found items, post the pics, etc., automatically will be true...

Also I use and build regular detector for to contrast the detection and for to find the item in the revolved sand. This is not indicative that the medium or long range detector doesn't work. One of the important utility of this kind of detector is: show you the places where items is obstaculized by vegetation, so you "clean" the area for to find the target.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Esteban

So, if more people build similar to the "Treasure sensor" and found items, post the pics, etc., automatically will be true...

No! they will be suspected and made many questions to see if it is truth.But if a few says the same,some will begin to believe.This is exactly what happened with Morgan.
regards,
Fred.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

So, if more people build similar to the "Treasure sensor" and found items, post the pics, etc., automatically will be true...

If people who read the forum today can build a treasure sensor that will find targets at a greater distance than a metal detector (coin at 2 meters), then they will believe. The real proof is if anyone can build a detector according to the plans and find treasure at a greater distance than a metal detector. If all people who build this detector have success, then this is proof that it works to find treasure at long range.

Originally Posted by Fred

No! they will be suspected and made many questions to see if it is truth.But if a few says the same,some will begin to believe.This is exactly what happened with Morgan.

In Morgan's case, nobody built a copy because the details of the coils are not known. So there is no proof from a working detector in our hands.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Originally Posted by J_Player

In Morgan's case, nobody built a copy because the details of the coils are not known. So there is no proof from a working detector in our hands.

Yes, but one more person said it work,so more people tend to believe...
Fred.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Fred

Yes, but one more person said it work,so more people tend to believe...
Fred.

Some people tend to believe and some people tend to not believe. The fact is there is no proof that we can see in our hands to verify if it is true or not. We must believe the same as the small child believes Santa clause flies in a sled because more than one person tells us it is true.

Best wishes,
J_P

[putrechigi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

OF course the photos show authentic treasures. But they don't prove these treasures were found with the pistol detector. They only show pictures of people with detectors in hand and treasures in hand. I can make similar photos without using any long range treasure machines. Maybe I can make a photo to show a coin in hand, and Robertoro detector in other hand, but Minelabs GPX-4000 metal detector is not shown in photo. Photo does not prove the performance of a metal detector. It only proves that somebody took a picture of the things we see in the image.

If you post a design called "Treasure sensor" that will find treasure farther than a metal detector, then people will be more likely to believe what you say is true and can be verified in their own hands.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hello to everyone ESTEBAN, J.PLAYER ecc... I thought something like this for the prove

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZhUNbF9RY

[roberts]

Originally Posted by Fred

Yes, but one more person said it work,so more people tend to believe...

Originally Posted by Fred

Fred.

I can bet there are even more people; Hung,Dell, Esteban, Morgan, Michael.....probably much,much more.
This is not really important.Same as not important if i dont beleive or not.
Proves nothing - number of beleivers or sceptics.
What is important is to provide here any material proofs.In this case (forum), only "material" would be possibillty to any other (except proponents) have chance to experience himself simillar experiences like ...Esteban in this case.
Only way to do that is Esteban to post here complete design, so others can make it and test it and finally see is it workable or not.
I really do not understand Estebans reason not doing that?
If he want to protect his intelectual achievements - aint no better way but to come here and be the first one ti post complete project. We have here very serious people, later can be very important witness that Esteban was the ONE who started and posted certain project.
Other way to protect it would be patenting in official patent organisation.
Why not doing that?
If it was working device for real, Esteban could earn much more money by selling project to some big company instead keeping it in secret.
He can come here and claim that money is not important or he is not interested in money,bussiness...OK than that should be even bigger argument to post it here and share with other members.
That way Esteban can get rid of any criticism,scepticism and finally make HUGE WIN upon us - sceptics.
I live in Serbia some 5-6 000 kms away from Paraguay. I am not presenting neither smallest threat to his eventual bussines plans.
Most of us the same. So there is not even theoretical reason to keep any project hidden from public, especially here, where supposed to members share knowledge and projects.
So...respecting all of this, especially having this subject on mind,keeping on mind also simillar things in the past, here, man can pull out only one conclusion - device is not workable,bogus,non existing,fairy tale, sweet dream.etc.etc.
Posting tons of photos, claiming funny claims,constantly reversing thesis,attacking every opsed opinion....doesnt look good at all to me.
Rather look simillar to many previous attempts to make break thorugh in public and earn some attention, eventually some money for nothing.
I also noticed one more thing. Except few very rare cases, huge percent of simillar designs mostly came from very same countries located in south America??? How come?
90% of simillar came from that region? Is it coincidence?
I dont think so..!
Saying this i really do not say that something special is going on there, respecting nature phenomenons or simillar.
That region has its own preferences like any other on planet earth, but not so different to special.
I would rather said this must be somehow related to people's minds there.
Culture,religion, habbits, educational pleads etc.etc.
I live in region where people are usually very restive and pugnacious and sceptics
Among this especiall preference all other preferences are usuall like on any other place on earth.
So dont guess me wrong..i just exposed my observations, collected in time.
I dont think Esteban will change his attitude upon this.
29 years of doing same thing (his words) are not for underestimation, at all.
No matter if he did right thing or wrong..
Only way he can get softer is to give him a time to decide, if he is gonna conintue being member here or maybe is time to left this place and find some better for him..

[Fred]

This is a good example of why a video is no good for proof:This is an excellent example of fake finding, the hole was obviously dig before.
He could have wait one or two days, then it would become impossible to know someone had dig here before.
It looks to me they are well paid to mention the name of the detector.
Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by J_Player

OF course the photos show authentic treasures. But they don't prove these treasures were found with the pistol detector. They only show pictures of people with detectors in hand and treasures in hand. I can make similar photos without using any long range treasure machines. Maybe I can make a photo to show a coin in hand, and Robertoro detector in other hand, but Minelabs GPX-4000 metal detector is not shown in photo. Photo does not prove the performance of a metal detector. It only proves that somebody took a picture of the things we see in the image.

If you post a design called "Treasure sensor" that will find treasure farther than a metal detector, then people will be more likely to believe what you say is true and can be verified in their own hands.

Best wishes,
J_P

Except, I can't auto-lying myself during eons of time and collect the photographic evidence for to lie in the internet in prevention the existence this method of communication and this forum... and main if I'm not seller and I'm don't commerce with it in any manner...

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Except, I can't auto-lying myself during eons of time and collect the photographic evidence for to lie in the internet in prevention the existence this method of communication and this forum... and main if I'm not seller and I'm don't commerce with it in any manner...

Also true: A small child does not auto-lying when he takes pictures of Christmas presents 3 consecutive years to prove Santa Claus rides in a flying sled full of presents. Small child is not seller and does not commerce in Christmas presents. But still there are many skeptics who want to see real proof in their hands of this flying sled with presents. Same as forum readers want to see real proof in their hands of LRL finding treasure from longer distance than a metal detector. Not just photographs that do not prove Santa Clause flying sled or LRL finding long distance.

Best wishes,
J_P

[roberts]

It is obvious that you lying everybody else here. It is absolutelly clear.
This saga continues in same old manner.
Just see old threads with simillar subject.
Blah,blah,blah....are all benefits from your posts, nothing else.
So you are photos collector. So what?
You like taking photos from your adventures. You collected huge pile of photos.Ok.Nice.
Doesnt mean we have to be tortured here with your photos. So far as i saw, nobody really gave a s.it about your photos. You are posting your photos here and later enjoy watching them.Funny!
Looks like you intend to post milion more simillar posts with million more funny photos here. Ok, your right to do that (since administrator allowed that kind of uncontrolled behavior), but at least stop telling fairy tles here any more.
I dont need to prove yor lies. I havent started this thread, i havent opened any subject here. You must prove a lot of things cose you started all.

[roberts]

J Player let it be. Just ignore and disregard him from now on.
He survived so far cose we payed some attention on his nonsences.
Once we start to ignore and disregard him, he will disapear very quick.
I give him few days, not more.

OK esteban, enjoy your "working" device, be happy. Keep it for your self.
I said many times and many times broke my word, but now is real end. I will never post neither one word refering you and your nonsences any more.
Of course i will ignore everything from you, no matter what you start in future. You will be disregarded permanently. I am the first one to do that, but not the last one.You will see. Goodbye forever. You dont exist any more.

[J_Player]

If we have a schematic with instructions to build a working LRL then everyone who builds it will see proof in their hands that the LRL works to find treasures at long range. If we see this LRL working like Esteban says to find long range targets, then everyone will believe Esteban is right and Robert is wrong.

If we find treasures from long distance with a LRL in our own hands then we will believe Esteban if he says Robert is not a good radio engineer, and we will believe all stories of Esteban's treasures found with LRLs.

But if we see that there is never a LRL we can use in our own hands to find long range treasures, then we cannot say Robert is a bad engineer of radio. We can only say Esteban wants us to believe from photos, same as children with photos of Christmas presents want us to believe Santa travels in a flying sled.

Does this sound right to you?

Best wishes,
J_P

[roberts]

Roberts is a real doctor of Physics. Roberts did more than a half of his life as professional...
But this is not important any more.
We argued about radio,455kHz,bfo...blah,blah,blah...
I will give you a hint;
watch this...

http://www.diylife.com/2007/11/29/ra...etal-detector/

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Roberts

I will give you a hint;
watch this...

Dang... It's a RF metal detector! But wait... it does not detect as far as a conventional metal detector. I guess this is not a LRL. Maybe we should call it SRL for short range locating.

Are you the famous radio engineer who designed the AM radio in this SRL? Did you also design the calculator?
I think Ranger Tell stole your idea to sell hundreds of calculators for $799.00

Best wishes,
J_P

[roberts]

...BFO ( beat frequency oscillator ) principle used in metal detectors could be explained as use of two oscillators, each of which produces a radio frequency. One of these oscillators uses a coil of wire that we call the search loop. The second oscillator uses a much smaller coil of wire, and is usually inside the control box and is called the reference oscillator. By adjusting the oscillators so their frequencies are very nearly the same, the difference between them is made audible as a beat note, this beat note changes slightly when the search loop is moved over or near to a piece of metal. It has been found in practice best to make the search oscillator fixed say at 100khz and to arrange for the reference oscillator to be adjustable 100khz plus or minus 250hz. This gives a beat note of 250hz to 0 to 250hz. The beat note disappears or nulls when the two oscillators are about equal. This type of detector is most sensitive when the beat note is close to zero, about 5hz any slight change being noticeable.Do you find any connection here?
Noe please, return to very begining of this thread, at 1. page, and read all i've being talking about...
Regards!