Magnacast 5000

[fenixdigger]

I forgot to mention this. The codes for the Examiner on gold are for nugget type gold. I can find electroplated gold easy if it's 22ct or up. Coins being a mixture seems to cause the problems with all the lrl units. I hear of a lot more bars found than coins. a little tweaking will end this problem. Here again it's like the bandwidth problem. The last trip out I missed 30 lbs of gold by 75 ft. I got sidetracked by a signal from a much larger target. I took the size to 500,000 grams and still had the signal. I figured I was screwing up and left. Came back in a week and found a nice empty hole. Going back next week, the other signal is still there. LT

[Jim]

Originally Posted by fenixdigger

They will locate treasure. They will also locate brass and very old iron while on the gold freq. A lot of my sites have both.

These units you have appear to be defective, as they are not discriminating the molecules properly. The frequency for gold is not shared by/with brass and very old iron.

[Mike(Mont)]

The Examiner is not in the same class as MFD/HID units. I see this has turned into another thread highjacking. Please have a little courtesy and take it to another thread.

[fenixdigger]

Good point Mike. As I am looking at the magnacast due to the pick up gun. Not a wind affected type reaction. I understand why you added the pot, to the circuit, finer control. One of my function generators has that. I wonder if that gun would work with one of my units? That would be fun to try with the 300 watt amp hooked up.
I have a rife generator that will put out up to 5 freqs. at the same time. Have had some interesting results with it. Never ran it with the amp. May try that this weekend. LT

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by WM6

Very well explained J_P. And probably the only real working method for (reasonable) remote searching.

All other methods are for todays MD reality only out of planetary theoretising, dreams or delusions. If they are sold it is about scam.

If a person is interested in learning how to really find metals under the ground using VLF, it might be good to listen to people who can demonstrate success with this method.
Here is a page that shows a summary of VLF surveying for metal, published by a reputable earth sciences university. Take note of the technical details they mention.
These are the same principles that geologists and technicians use when locating metal under the ground: http://www.eos.ubc.ca/ubcgif/iag/fou.../vlf-notes.htm


Best wishes,
J_P

[Mike(Mont)]

Originally Posted by fenixdigger

Good point Mike. As I am looking at the magnacast due to the pick up gun. Not a wind affected type reaction. I understand why you added the pot, to the circuit, finer control. One of my function generators has that. I wonder if that gun would work with one of my units? That would be fun to try with the 300 watt amp hooked up.
I have a rife generator that will put out up to 5 freqs. at the same time. Have had some interesting results with it. Never ran it with the amp. May try that this weekend. LT

The scan gun is a directional receiver antenna. I hold it pointed down at the ground and walk across the signal line sort of like using an L-rod. If you want to hook up an antenna to your Rife machine, I don't know what would work with five frequencies. The transmitting coil appears to be wire wrapped around a rectangular frame. Remember a coil antenna is basically a capacitor.You could try some fine magnet wire and try to get a quarter wave length assuming you have a high enough frequency. I've read the Magnacast runs in the 400 MHz range but can't say for sure. I don't have a frequency counter that goes high enough to register. 300 watts seems like you might be violating some FCC laws. Like I said, most MFD type units run a very small amounts of power and I assume this is for some reason. I've heard the signal line will sort of burn into the ground and not dissapate for days if too much power is used. Don't know this for a fact, but I have experienced a residual effect on some days. The instructions on the Magnacst say to turn off the transmitter for fifteen minutes before moving to a new position. My experience has shown this to be true. The signal line will not be on target.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

Remember a coil antenna is basically a capacitor.

Is it really?
Please explain...

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Is it really?
Please explain...

I expect you've heard of "the new math".

Perhaps this is Mike's push for "the new theory of antennas and wave propagation".

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

The Examiner is not in the same class as MFD/HID units. I see this has turned into another thread highjacking. Please have a little courtesy and take it to another thread.

It is not? Which MFD/HID class is the Examiner in?

I don't see how talking about LRLs in a LRL thread is hijacking

[Mike(Mont)]

fenixdigger, if you get one let me know. I have a couple techniques that I really like.

[fenixdigger]

Hi guys; Just got back from a quick hunt. Went to get permission to look and the guy said , I'll open the gate and you can drive back there. A line of trees was blocking the 20 mph wind there, so I went. The Examiner locked and I pinpointed a spot. Got the Minelab and it yelled and the number for gold came up on the meter. Dug down about 10 inches and saw gold. It was a piece of metal with gold leaf on it. Well I'm happy but not a lot. That's how it works. you find gold. Wasn't what I wanted, but it was gold.
Now I'm hoping that with a magnacast, I might be able to knock this out. Is that a possibility or would it lock on this also? Thanks,LT

[Mike(Mont)]

If you are lookng for small items, you are going to get some gold plated stuff, too. I don't know any way around that. The AQC can be set AFTER you locate a signal line for 0 - 4 ounces or 0 - 4 pounds. These numbers are not exact. Things like magnetic soil, sulfides, etc. are going to reduce the efficiency. I have found that surface targets also have an effect of about twice what the dial is set at. Example: a one-half ounce gold target on the surface is going to be picked up even when the AQC dial is set at about one ounce -- at least in the soil I work in. This is also exaggerated when you are working at a long distance. It's going to be more accurate if you are working within fifty feet.

You bring up a good point. The MFD/HID units are not guaranteed to find treasure. Some people want to believe otherwise. They get their mind made up that a treasure is nearby and if they don't find it the device is to blame. Over optimism is as bad as skepticism. When a person gets unrealistic ideas it is like a manic depressant --the let-down is too much to handle. I don't know if you remember the story about the guy who had a two-box metal detector. He dug down about fifty feet before the neighbors called the police. Best to do your research first.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by fenixdigger

Hi guys; Just got back from a quick hunt. Went to get permission to look and the guy said , I'll open the gate and you can drive back there. A line of trees was blocking the 20 mph wind there, so I went. The Examiner locked and I pinpointed a spot. Got the Minelab and it yelled and the number for gold came up on the meter. Dug down about 10 inches and saw gold. It was a piece of metal with gold leaf on it. Well I'm happy but not a lot. That's how it works. you find gold. Wasn't what I wanted, but it was gold.
Now I'm hoping that with a magnacast, I might be able to knock this out. Is that a possibility or would it lock on this also? Thanks,LT

Why don't you just continue using the Minelab? That appears to be working perfectly.

[fenixdigger]

Hi; Make no mistake, every time I go out, the Minelab goes. It will get a drink can @ 4 ft. The field I was in was around 10 acres. Took less than 15 min. to find the spot to put the Minelab. There are 2 words that are the best reason to use a locator like a magnacast or Examiner,,,STACK'S AUCTION. LT

Here's a picture of the field, the located spot, and the Minelab/w battery bag

[hung]

Originally Posted by fenixdigger

Well I'm happy but not a lot. That's how it works. you find gold. Wasn't what I wanted, but it was gold.

Why not? Did you set the examiner for another frequency other than gold and ended up finding gold instead of the seeked metal?

I think you don't need the Minelab at all. Specially for small targets deeper than 6 inches. The examiner can perfectly pinpoint the location, however some people feel more confortable using one of these toy MDs for final pinpointing. This is only a psychological factor.

Art, for instance is an expert pinpointer with the Examiner and already has taught his MD to swim as he said.
I, for my part have taught my Minelab to skyjump since he already knew how to swim. Unfortunately that was not a good lesson and today he is half ruined... oh well..

[fenixdigger]

Hi again; I was set on gold, but I was wide open on the other settings. I'm looking at the magnacast to bypass the wind BS that I have with hand held swingers. Sometimes I find OLD brass and very old iron( must have black electrolysis on it) when set on gold. I'm sure tweaking the settings will overcome this, but not the wind. Wind is also a problem out on the water.
Oh yes; Thank God for Art. He helped me a lot. I must not speak Australian, cause R/T was confusing as hell.
Some of my areas of interest, I have no idea of what is there, and I just want to see what I can find. In a historic area I was in, a man stopped to tell me that the local detector club used this park for staged hunts and training and that I would find very little. I thanked him, turned the disc. down and started. In 2 hrs. both pockets were FULL of coins and jewelry. Guess nobody had a tweaked Minelab. A LRL would have been useless there.
I want to break from the issue to say that this is one of the best forums I have been on. Hats off to the administrator !!!!! LT

[Mike(Mont)]

In my years of locating, NOTHING compares to a signal line when it comes to discriminating. Even with an MFD/HID, if you just use the sweep technique instead of crossing/tracing the signal line, you are not getting the physical discrimination, just mental discrimination. That may or may not get you to the target. The signal line IS the discrimination. Yes, I own an Examiner and I don't use it any more, not even with an MFD. Not saying it can't work ,just that it is not that consistent. Even a signal line is not always going to be accurate. Sorry Hung, this thread is about the Magnacast. I repeat, please start a new thread.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

In my years of locating, NOTHING compares to a signal line when it comes to discriminating. Even with an MFD/HID, if you just use the sweep technique instead of crossing/tracing the signal line, you are not getting the physical discrimination, just mental discrimination. That may or may not get you to the target. The signal line IS the discrimination. Yes, I own an Examiner and I don't use it any more, not even with an MFD. Not saying it can't work ,just that it is not that consistent. Even a signal line is not always going to be accurate. Sorry Hung, this thread is about the Magnacast. I repeat, please start a new thread.

I agree. What does an Examiner have to do with forward gauss? There are plenty of threads in this forum for Examiner posts. Take your pick and post there.
But, since when has anyone thought twice about hijacking threads at Geotech?
Maybe this is why it takes a few hours to track down the fragments of information about any particular topic in Remote Sensing forum.

Getting back to the Magnacast 5000, a new thought is emerging that helps to explain LRL theory in general. From what I gather in Mike(Mont)'s last few posts, the signal generator in the Magnacast 5000 as well other Vernell Electronics signal generators do not discriminate metals or broadcast RF for any measurable distance. In theory, the small square wave signal is so weak it is barely detectable unless there is some metal that also has some very weak mechanical (molecular level) vibration with electrical artifacts. As the theory goes, the weak electronic square wave signal and weaker electronic artifacts from the metal are both undetectable alone when using ordinary electronic receivers. But when a piece of metal has minute electronic artifacts oscillating at the same frequency or a harmonic in near proximity of a signal generator (near = defined as a few inches to a few miles), a line in the air between the metal and signal generator becomes more detectable above the general electronic noise in the air. Thus, the term "signal line". So the theory is a small signal becomes more detectable above the noise levels when moving a detector along this line between the signal generator and metal. At least this is the theory I gather from what I read.

But this theory opens some questions:
1. According to Mike(Mont), the signal generator does not perform any metal discriminating. This is done biologically through human sensory and mental methods.
However, we see there are adjustments on the Vernell signal generators to select which kind of metal the signal generator is searching for.
Why does this adjustment exist if the electronic equipment does not physically discriminate metals?

2. We see a possible explanation to how the term "signal line" evolved. But is there any information that could explain what "forward gauss" is?
Can it be explained if we reject the Maxwell heaviside equations, or is it easily explained by conventional electronic theory?
Maybe it means the detection is done only on the forward side of the antenna, not the rear where the signal generator gets in the way...

3. From what we see in the Vernell Electronics locators that were studied and dissected by electronic engineers, they operate at VLF/ELF frequencies. Mike(Mont) thinks the Magnacast 5000 operates around 400 MHz, but can't be sure because his frequency counter does not go that high. A suggestion for Mike(Mont) is to connect a test probe between the antenna and ground, and check for frequencies between 10 and 10,000 Hz while switching through the 6 frequency adjustments on the Magnacast 5000. From what we know about the Vernell designs, this is where the frequency is likely to be found.

Best wishes,
J_P

[fenixdigger]

I think the term forward gauss came about from the info that came out in 1990 from Larry Williams of Treasure hunter mag. He put out a report that said the mfd will develop a heart shaped field with the ground probe 30 ft behind the machine and the pos. probe in front. A lot of good info in those 19 pages. LT

[Carl-NC]

Early on Larry was fascinated with LRLs, but as time went on and no one could ever locate his big pile of buried silver, he became more and more skeptical about them. By the time he gave up THC, he had pretty much dismissed LRLs as a bunch of nonsense. Of course, Steve Ryland, who took over THC from Larry, was a geophysicist and dismissed LRLs from the start.

[Mike(Mont)]

Carl has a VR2000. He has electronic measuring equipment and a lot more knowledge about using it than I do. My instructions say to not touch the outputs as it is dangerous. It said do not connect or disconnect with power on. Wait ten minutes. I guess I am curious what info he measures.

[goldfinder]

Originally Posted by J_Player

I agree. What does an Examiner have to do with forward gauss? There are plenty of threads in this forum for Examiner posts. Take your pick and post there.
But, since when has anyone thought twice about hijacking threads at Geotech?
Maybe this is why it takes a few hours to track down the fragments of information about any particular topic in Remote Sensing forum.

Getting back to the Magnacast 5000, a new thought is emerging that helps to explain LRL theory in general. From what I gather in Mike(Mont)'s last few posts, the signal generator in the Magnacast 5000 as well other Vernell Electronics signal generators do not discriminate metals or broadcast RF for any measurable distance. In theory, the small square wave signal is so weak it is barely detectable unless there is some metal that also has some very weak mechanical (molecular level) vibration with electrical artifacts. As the theory goes, the weak electronic square wave signal and weaker electronic artifacts from the metal are both undetectable alone when using ordinary electronic receivers. But when a piece of metal has minute electronic artifacts oscillating at the same frequency or a harmonic in near proximity of a signal generator (near = defined as a few inches to a few miles), a line in the air between the metal and signal generator becomes more detectable above the general electronic noise in the air. Thus, the term "signal line". So the theory is a small signal becomes more detectable above the noise levels when moving a detector along this line between the signal generator and metal. At least this is the theory I gather from what I read.

But this theory opens some questions:
1. According to Mike(Mont), the signal generator does not perform any metal discriminating. This is done biologically through human sensory and mental methods.
However, we see there are adjustments on the Vernell signal generators to select which kind of metal the signal generator is searching for.
Why does this adjustment exist if the electronic equipment does not physically discriminate metals?

2. We see a possible explanation to how the term "signal line" evolved. But is there any information that could explain what "forward gauss" is?
Can it be explained if we reject the Maxwell heaviside equations, or is it easily explained by conventional electronic theory?
Maybe it means the detection is done only on the forward side of the antenna, not the rear where the signal generator gets in the way...

3. From what we see in the Vernell Electronics locators that were studied and dissected by electronic engineers, they operate at VLF/ELF frequencies. Mike(Mont) thinks the Magnacast 5000 operates around 400 MHz, but can't be sure because his frequency counter does not go that high. A suggestion for Mike(Mont) is to connect a test probe between the antenna and ground, and check for frequencies between 10 and 10,000 Hz while switching through the 6 frequency adjustments on the Magnacast 5000. From what we know about the Vernell designs, this is where the frequency is likely to be found.

Best wishes,
J_P

When I was doing research with MFDs and LRL about 15 years ago I was skeptical of any signal lines. I had a friend of mine who could see energies on higher levels (a true clairvoyant as I had tested person extensively) observe on the higher planes any energies when I turned on the MFD. The friend could see a fuzzy white light energy line from the transmitter to a metal target. When I walked through the line with or without the dowsing rods the line would get broken and it took at least a minute for the line to re-establish. I could sense the line but not see it. The MFD would transmit to various metals depending on the frequency. Another discovery was that when the sun came up much more than 9 am the energies from the sun would dissolve the energy lines. Later in the afternoon the sun would get low enough on the horizon for the line phenomena to work. Lots of this type of discoveries coincided with old downing books like Abby Mermet.

Goldfinder

[hung]

Originally Posted by goldfinder

When I was doing research with MFDs and LRL about 15 years ago I was skeptical of any signal lines. I had a friend of mine who could see energies on higher levels (a true clairvoyant as I had tested person extensively) observe on the higher planes any energies when I turned on the MFD. The friend could see a fuzzy white light energy line from the transmitter to a metal target. When I walked through the line with or without the dowsing rods the line would get broken and it took at least a minute for the line to re-establish. I could sense the line but not see it. The MFD would transmit to various metals depending on the frequency. Another discovery was that when the sun came up much more than 9 am the energies from the sun would dissolve the energy lines. Later in the afternoon the sun would get low enough on the horizon for the line phenomena to work. Lots of this type of discoveries coincided with old downing books like Abby Mermet.

Goldfinder

...Be careful with what you say here, otherwise you may cause a serious short circuit in Carl&gang's neurons.

[Mike(Mont)]

Here's a technique I use. As I said, I point the scan gun at the ground and walk in an arc in front of the transmitter antenna about 13.5 feet away (radius). Now when I get directly in front of the antenna the tone and clicking will be the loudest, so I look for any variance. In other words, if the tone starts to decrease instead of the usual increase I check it out. So when I am pointing the scan gun at the ground the handle is in the horizontal position. I twist it back and forth like turning a key in a lock. I watch the meter and normally when there is a tone the meter will stay up high, or no tone the meter stays low, but right near the signal line the meter will deflect almost the full scale with each twist of the scan gun back and forth. I don't know how well this will work with the VR2000 because the receiver antenna is quite a bit larger and not too easy to twist quickly. I don't twist it all that much, probably less than forty-five degrees each direction (towards the transmitter and towards the target area).

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

Here's a technique I use. As I said, I point the scan gun at the ground and walk in an arc in front of the transmitter antenna about 13.5 feet away (radius). Now when I get directly in front of the antenna the tone and clicking will be the loudest, so I look for any variance. In other words, if the tone starts to decrease instead of the usual increase I check it out. So when I am pointing the scan gun at the ground the handle is in the horizontal position. I twist it back and forth like turning a key in a lock. I watch the meter and normally when there is a tone the meter will stay up high, or no tone the meter stays low, but right near the signal line the meter will deflect almost the full scale with each twist of the scan gun back and forth. I don't know how well this will work with the VR2000 because the receiver antenna is quite a bit larger and not too easy to twist quickly. I don't twist it all that much, probably less than forty-five degrees each direction (towards the transmitter and towards the target area).

Signal lines are just a trick of the mind.
Try re-reading your posts quoted above. It's just a load of pseudo-babble.