Simple question

[WM6]

Originally Posted by kt315

spectrum

Yes, wishful spectrum - one more wishful theory.

They put on other side of Electromagnetic spectrum so called SUPER spectrum.

I know what "electromagnetic" mean, but what mean "SUPER"?

According this theory (look at drawings) this Super-spectrum is related wit Possession and Schizophrenia - this can be taken as possible explanation.

[Mike(Mont)]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

This gets it right to the point, doesn't it? Even if your Average Joe LRL user doesn't know the answer to this, an LRL manufacturer should, eh? Can you imagine a metal detector designer who has no idea how a metal detector works?

I've also asked about the nature of signal lines for 13 years and gotten different answers, and no answers. I've also done my own testing and experiments on trying to physically detect the signal and gotten exactly zero results. Now, I agree, and have repeatedly admitted, there is a possibility that the signal line is almost unmeasurable, and that some people might possess a skill that I do not.

That is why I invite experienced "successful" users to show me their results. Most refuse. Many don't even want to talk about it, insisting that any kind of test is faulty. Yet they are more than willing to discuss their techniques and beliefs and the fact that you need to "practice" to get good at it. OK, how do you practice? What do you do?

Mike is a manufacturer, but cannot answer even the most basic question about his device:

Mike, besides being smooth, can you tell me exactly what your Revelation Locator Rod can do? What did you design it to do, and what does it actually do?

If I created a "metal detector" which had a smoother audio sound than any other metal detector, but it didn't actually detect metal, how much would that feature be worth to you? Can your RLR actually do anything useful? Can that usefulness be demonstrated? How would the manufacturer of metal detectors respond? Or cars? Or pianos?

Mike, if you were trying to demonstrate your Revelation Locator Rod to a potential customer, how would you do it? I would assume that you would use a method that demonstrates some reasonable level of success, so can you describe a simple test scenario for your device that you feel you can succeed with, say, 70% of the time?

C'mon Mike, now you're a manufacturer, you no longer have the luxury of dismissing or ignoring these questions! Even if I cannot measure or "feel" these signal lines, can you? Can you show me? No one else can, including a manufacturer, and including the fellow last weekend; all have failed miserably. Not even one single success! Are you so certain of failure that you won't even try?

- Carl

I hardly consider myself an LRL manufacturer and I don't make any profit. I get a small hourly wage for the work I do and I don't expect to ever break even on the development time. I did build about a dozen rods a couple years ago, still have a few. I didn't build anything magical into the rod. It just does not hang up like most rods do. It has what I call a "low start-up torque threshold". I sweep the rod very slowly and that gives more time to catch the signal. So yes, it is very sensitive so much so that most beginners can not hold it still. I don't like to sell them to beginners because I know they will get frustrated. To be honest there are not very many people who have enough rod skills to use one. As I tell buyers, you have to work with it to get the benefits. It takes time to "grow' your right brain and to learn to meditate, to clear the mind.

I never said I am certain of failure. I have no idea what kind of impediments you will throw at me. I've said before I wouldn't blame you if you did. It's your money and why would you want to give it away? I never said you are crazy. Those tests of extreme odds for money are like sucker bait. You get desperate people who will try anything to get the money and they don't have a clue to the amount of difficulty. I'm sure many people on the forums think I have a big ego. That's because they don't have a clue. If you want to dowse or use a locator you have to lose the ego, the veil of awareness. It's a totally different world than what you know when you rely on reason, intellect, the five senses. It's beyond your comprehension.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

.... Those tests of extreme odds for money are like sucker bait. You get desperate people who will try anything to get the money and they don't have a clue to the amount of difficulty.

What?
What are you talking about?

What difficulty?
It is only difficult to find a hidden object from one of ten possible locations if you are trying to guess the location.
You have a ten percent chance of guessing the correct location.

But if dowsing and LRLs work as you say, then there is no problem to locate which of the ten possible locations.
Are you now telling us that dowsing and LRLs are not suitable to determine where the hidden object is located?
Are you now saying the dowsing and LRLs have the same difficulty as guessing to locate a hidden object?


Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

I hardly consider myself an LRL manufacturer and I don't make any profit. I get a small hourly wage for the work I do and I don't expect to ever break even on the development time. I did build about a dozen rods a couple years ago, still have a few. I didn't build anything magical into the rod. It just does not hang up like most rods do. It has what I call a "low start-up torque threshold". I sweep the rod very slowly and that gives more time to catch the signal. So yes, it is very sensitive so much so that most beginners can not hold it still. I don't like to sell them to beginners because I know they will get frustrated. To be honest there are not very many people who have enough rod skills to use one. As I tell buyers, you have to work with it to get the benefits. It takes time to "grow' your right brain and to learn to meditate, to clear the mind.

I never said I am certain of failure. I have no idea what kind of impediments you will throw at me. I've said before I wouldn't blame you if you did. It's your money and why would you want to give it away? I never said you are crazy. Those tests of extreme odds for money are like sucker bait. You get desperate people who will try anything to get the money and they don't have a clue to the amount of difficulty. I'm sure many people on the forums think I have a big ego. That's because they don't have a clue. If you want to dowse or use a locator you have to lose the ego, the veil of awareness. It's a totally different world than what you know when you rely on reason, intellect, the five senses. It's beyond your comprehension.

Mike, I read and re-read your response, and I can see absolutely no attempt to answer the questions I asked. So I'll try again.

Can you tell me exactly what your Revelation Locator Rod can do? What did you design it to do, and what does it actually do?

Can your RLR actually do anything useful? Can that usefulness be demonstrated? If you were trying to demonstrate your Revelation Locator Rod to a potential customer, how would you do it?

You've stated many times the need to "practice" to get good at it. OK, how do you practice? What do you do?

These are not scandalous questions. I could easily apply all of them to metal detectors, and then answer them in detail.

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by goldfinder

Yes - the signal type is a longitudinal wave. You either missed this or ignored this answer to your question for some reason.

Figure out longitudinal wave generation and detection and you will have your perfect detector.

Goldfinder

Are you sure?
Are you really really sure?!
If you are than please reconsider what have you just answered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitudinal_wave

Please read this and reconsider.
Try to understand the definition of longitudinal waves.
In addition see this link:

http://www.edinformatics.com/math_sc...inal_waves.htm

[ivconic]

I just wanted to point on this:
http://www.crystalinks.com/grids.html

But than i saw this:
"...Planetary Energetic Grid Theory falls under the heading of pseudoscience..."

Aren't those all?

[Max]

Originally Posted by hung

Happened about two months ago.

Sitting by the beach I spotted a dowser at distance. When he suddenly marked a spot I aproached. He tried the regular bishop's method to check the depth and the target apperared relatively shallow.

Some guy with a MD also aproached. I saw 'whites' written. He passed the thing over the spot and nodded his head to the dowser. The dowser insisted that was the spot. The MD guy again recalibrated the device, swept the space around much like a floor polisher and nothing.
Then another detectorist aproached with a minelab. I think an explorer or something like that. He swept the same spot but not getting also a response, he started to move the coil quikly and he got a faint signal, real weak. He started to dig, signal slowly getting stronger. Then a coin popped up.

Humm... Did this prove that the whites MD is a piece of crap? Yes? No? Could it be that the whites operator was not competent enough to succeed? Yes? No?

Interesting... really interesting...

By the way, does somebody know how the minelab lawsuit against whites is going? Updates?

Carl?...

your story prove nothing apart that at the beach things can get covered by sand very easy and so can be found at depth and a conventional MD may miss them... and that some white's models have less sens at the beach than minelab ones... no big news I say

then... put another way: your story doesn't mean that the guy with LRL detected something apart noise or his self-deception, but just that if you go in any visited beaches in the world and start sweeping an MD in some few square meters you'll get some signal , sooner or later, if the MD has enough detection range to detect something buried deep

obviously if both MDs found nothing in that case the LRL guy could always say that the target is 10 meters deep and their MDs sucks...



this last remember me the other story you told of a sunk boat in the sea or something with tons of gold you detected from the beach at several Kms distance...



regards,
Max

[Mike(Mont)]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

Mike, I read and re-read your response, and I can see absolutely no attempt to answer the questions I asked. So I'll try again.

Can you tell me exactly what your Revelation Locator Rod can do? What did you design it to do, and what does it actually do?

Can your RLR actually do anything useful? Can that usefulness be demonstrated? If you were trying to demonstrate your Revelation Locator Rod to a potential customer, how would you do it?

You've stated many times the need to "practice" to get good at it. OK, how do you practice? What do you do?

These are not scandalous questions. I could easily apply all of them to metal detectors, and then answer them in detail.

I don't make any claims and I'm not really interested in telling you what I think. Besides, everyone uses it as they see fit. I use it to detect the signal line from an MFD. I don't try to sell them. If you want to do a test it will cost you the $2500 and I will throw in some lessons and a rod. If I win I will wave the fee. I will have a few requirements like you will not be allowed within fifty yards of the test area in case you decide to "throw a wrench into the gears" (sprinkle some powder over the area to contaminate things). Also I will require the gold to be washed so there is no sealant on it. I don't recall reading your conditions, but I assume they are like randi's and you will only pay if you feel like it. As you can see I don't even care if I win.

[Qiaozhi]

What do you mean by this? ->

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

I don't make any claims and I'm not really interested in telling you what I think.

Previously you said, "It just does not hang up like most rods do." ... that sounds like a claim to me.
And, "It has what I call a "low start-up torque threshold"." ... another claim.
And, "So yes, it is very sensitive so much so that most beginners can not hold it still." ... yet another claim
And the final [big] claim. "But I have never found anything better for the money than a good frequency generator (Ramsey digital w/12v battery) and my Revelation Locator Rod (RLR)."

Personally, I think you're very very interested in telling us what you think. But not so interested in giving a direct answer to Carl's questions. Why is that?

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Are you sure?
Are you really really sure?!
If you are than please reconsider what have you just answered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitudinal_wave

One of the problems with asking "What is an LRL signal?" is that the answer can be (and usually is) based entirely within pseudoscience. There is literally no limit to the amount of junk science LRL proponents can toss into the discussions. And how can you possibly discuss the issue when they're so far out of touch with reality?

That's why I prefer a simple "Show Me." That gets 'em every time. All those theories are worth exactly squat when they fail to make the durn thing work, every single time.

[goldfinder]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Are you sure?
Are you really really sure?!
If you are than please reconsider what have you just answered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitudinal_wave

Please read this and reconsider.
Try to understand the definition of longitudinal waves.
In addition see this link:

http://www.edinformatics.com/math_sc...inal_waves.htm

Yes - read:
http://spiritualscience.net.au/resou...ntin-meyl.html

http://www.meyl.eu/go/index.php?dir=...e=1&sublevel=0

There is a lot more. Tom Bearden discussed scalar waves and mentioned briefly in one of his talks that using scalar waves which are longitudinal waves can be used to detect at long distances. He also mentioned some of his associates had such detectors.

I also know a person who has such a detector. He is located in western Texas and does surveys with his equipment. Unfortunately, he is not interested in any notoriety.

I am giving you folks some hints so you can research this if you have the inclination. I am not interested in discussing this subject as none on this website have ever indicated any knowledge of new advanced technology nor do any of you seem to have the background. so you can chew away on me an make any fun of this you want but this is new technology coming down that is quite groundbreaking.

Goldfinder

[WM6]

Originally Posted by goldfinder

... new advanced technology nor do any of you seem to have the background.

Agree one need a huge of blackground for such "new advanced technology".

Originally Posted by goldfinder

..... this is new technology coming down....

Agree again, this new technology is really coming very very down.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

I don't make any claims and I'm not really interested in telling you what I think. Besides, everyone uses it as they see fit. I use it to detect the signal line from an MFD. I don't try to sell them. If you want to do a test it will cost you the $2500 and I will throw in some lessons and a rod. If I win I will wave the fee. I will have a few requirements like you will not be allowed within fifty yards of the test area in case you decide to "throw a wrench into the gears" (sprinkle some powder over the area to contaminate things). Also I will require the gold to be washed so there is no sealant on it. I don't recall reading your conditions, but I assume they are like randi's and you will only pay if you feel like it. As you can see I don't even care if I win.

I am shocked, once again you completely avoided the questions. Why are these questions so easy for a metal detector but so difficult for an LRL?

I personally saw your devices at the Texas Treasure Show a couple of years ago, where you were trying to sell them through a vendor (you even said so). So what does the durn thing do? Anything? Nothing? Whatever the buyer wants to believe it does?

Mike, I don't think you can do jack squat. I believe you are blowing smoke, nothing but a blustering bombastic braggart. The statements you've made over the years concerning your abilities are misleading, deceptive, and downright fabricated. You can't even dowse!

And now you want me to pay you to watch you fail? Why in the world would I do that? Arch on TNet also wanted me to pay to watch him fail. Is that the New Standard for LRL proponents? This tells me more than ever that not only can you not do it, but you yourself are 100% convinced that you cannot do it! And everyone else knows it, too.

You make and sell a device that does nothing useful, you want me to pay you $2500 to see it fail, and you call me unethical? Do you see an h-bomb in any of this?

[Jim]

I would pay to watch Mike fail.

Humor such as this is priceless.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Jim

I would pay to watch Mike fail.

Humor such as this is priceless.

Not me...
I can see hundreds of strangers fail every time at the local beach.
It is easy.
Take whatever LRL you can get your hands on and go to the beach where people hunt for lost jewelry.
Then walk around with the LRL as if to search for something buried.
People will ask what the heck you think you are doing.

This is your chance.
You tell them this is a treasure machine... Here, try it out...
And watch them fail to find anything, at no cost to you.

Better idea is to go metal detecting at the beach.
Then you get a chance to find lost jewelry instead of watching LRL failures.


Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

I won't pay a dime for failure, but would pay dearly to see success. Requirement #1 is someone who believes they can actually do the dirty deed. Mike doesn't even meet this threshold, and the funny part is, he said so!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

I won't pay a dime for failure, but would pay dearly to see success. Requirement #1 is someone who believes they can actually do the dirty deed. Mike doesn't even meet this threshold, and the funny part is, he said so!

Yup, he did.



Best wishes,
J_P

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

One of the problems with asking "What is an LRL signal?" is that the answer can be (and usually is) based entirely within pseudoscience. There is literally no limit to the amount of junk science LRL proponents can toss into the discussions. And how can you possibly discuss the issue when they're so far out of touch with reality?

That's why I prefer a simple "Show Me." That gets 'em every time. All those theories are worth exactly squat when they fail to make the durn thing work, every single time.

It is a fact, neither than i; never actually saw neither one case which can support nor prove any of such claims.
Ok, those devices simply are not working, but what is most funny is the fact that all those people actually can't explain nor
understand the "working" principles (maybe because there aren't any at all! ) of those devices they are usually using!?
That's the most funniest fact in whole story!
I am using conventional VLF I/B and PI and i can understand how those are working , also i can explain that to someone who might ask me,
but LRL proponents ;those - can not do the same with their devices!
I purposely started this topic and asked such simple question just to show that fact.
"..There is literally no limit to the amount of junk science LRL proponents can toss into the discussions. .."
That's also fact and we were and are witness of it on these forums.
So far we saw rich variety of most unbelievable explanations, theories, "facts".... sheeesh!
Again, i wanted all those people to return to the beginning of a story and just to try to answer on very simple question.
So far i get only "longitudinal waves" as answer!? Not true! Of course!
Not only that answer was wrong - but also is most nonsense answer that i could imagine!
I don't need to debate this, it is so trivial and absurd, that's why i only gave link to Wiki definitions of lwaves...
You (Carl) already debunked pretty successfully another theory - "ionic...whatever it was" , in the past.
So; answer is NOT "lwaves" and answer is not "ions or whatever similar"...
Ok.. let's wait to hear something new!

[ivconic]

Originally Posted by goldfinder

Yes - read:
http://spiritualscience.net.au/resou...ntin-meyl.html

http://www.meyl.eu/go/index.php?dir=...e=1&sublevel=0

There is a lot more. Tom Bearden discussed scalar waves and mentioned briefly in one of his talks that using scalar waves which are longitudinal waves can be used to detect at long distances. He also mentioned some of his associates had such detectors.

I also know a person who has such a detector. He is located in western Texas and does surveys with his equipment. Unfortunately, he is not interested in any notoriety.

I am giving you folks some hints so you can research this if you have the inclination. I am not interested in discussing this subject as none on this website have ever indicated any knowledge of new advanced technology nor do any of you seem to have the background. so you can chew away on me an make any fun of this you want but this is new technology coming down that is quite groundbreaking.

Goldfinder

Ok, i wanted to respect your attitude and visited that link, although to tell you the truth;
usually i wouldn't do such thing because anything that starts like "spiritual..." is already having very negative contest in my mind.
And word "spiritual..." in the headline of that page is already telling us much!
Like Carl previously noticed; there is a lot of "sense" taken from regular science and mixed up with pseudo science, offered in such and similar articles.
That's why such articles are usually perfect "catch up" and decoy for most of naive and common sensed people that are about to enter the "LRL world".
OK, just pay attention on this sentence:
"...The missing experimental pieces in Meyl's theory eventually came from the work of Tesla.." !!
It's been said "eventually" !
And that puts the end on the rest of a story.
As Nikola Tesla compatriot and the one who is pretty interested in his work;
i simply don't like to see how various people tends so easy to mix his name and work with something which usually has nothing to do with.
Who the heck is Tom Bearden!?
Retired Lieutenant Colonel U.S. Army!
So?
Do i have to take him serious?
We here are also having one Retired Lieutenant Colonel named Zvonimir Jankovic, the inventor of Radijan 97 and Radijan 2001.
Already mentioned here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12112

So?
Just another charlatan as all those retired army people!

[ivconic]

Scalar Waves: Theory and Experiments
KONSTANTIN MEYL

http://www.scientificexploration.org..._15_2_meyl.pdf

[ivconic]

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=238709


Wikipedia.org labels Scalar Wave theory as pseudoscience.


".....We do not permit crackpot theories here on the PF....."

See? Now you also can see why Carl is most democratic forum owner ever!

[ivconic]

"...It's that time again - yes, we have yet another wacko reinvention of physics that pretends to have math on its side...."

[ivconic]

Actually; whole story is turning all the time around this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb_potential

Which also has nothing to do with LRL!

[ivconic]

Sheeeesh!
I made HUGE mistake now by posting these links!
Because now it can provoke bedlam of new LRL designs!
I bet majority will be based on Coulomb's torsion balance!!!
Carl get ready for the incoming LRL tsunami here!

[satdaveuk]

Very interesting stuff but none of it makes sense to me at all can anyone here actually explain how this system works in engineering terms or is it a science beyond human realms