Carl's phony LRL report

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Carl-NC

Mike, can you use an LRL? Can you show me? I'm absolutely sure you can't, and that you will refuse. All that are left are the alibis, let's hear 'em.

Carl, if I may offer a friendly amendment to what you said.

Mike, can you successfully use an LRL?

Anybody can use one, wave it around, walk with it, .... Finding precious metals with it is something else.

[Mike(Mont)]

This thread is not about me. I will answer this one question, but first I want to say it is a loaded question in this sub-tabloid scenario.

"MAN RISKS LIFE! WALKS ACROSS BROADWAY ON TIGHTWIRE!!!" reads the headlines of a small newspaper here. When you turn the page to the story there is a photo of a guy walking across the street and a wire is laying on the road under his feet. Was he risking his life? Of course anytime a person jaywalks on a busy street. Was the headlines truthful? Yes. Honest? Not by my way of thinking. That's the same mentality here. How to you define "successfully"? Am I rich? No. I'm not rich from using my top-of-the-line metal detector either (I won't name the brand and it doesn't really matter anyway.) Can I pass Carl's trumped up test? I woudn't bet on it. Would I take his test? Yes if he paid me enough for my time but my rates are going to be steeper that one certain LRL manufacturer. Can I find gold with my LRL better than random chance? Yes, by a long ways. Can I do so every time without fail as in 100%? Probably not, but I did hit 100% in my test area over the course of one week. What does all this prove? Nothing. Would I go treasure hunting or even metal detecting without an LRL? No way.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

This thread is not about me. I will answer this one question, but first I want to say it is a loaded question in this sub-tabloid scenario.

"MAN RISKS LIFE! WALKS ACROSS BROADWAY ON TIGHTWIRE!!!" reads the headlines of a small newspaper here. When you turn the page to the story there is a photo of a guy walking across the street and a wire is laying on the road under his feet. Was he risking his life? Of course anytime a person jaywalks on a busy street. Was the headlines truthful? Yes. Honest? Not by my way of thinking. That's the same mentality here. How to you define "successfully"? Am I rich? No. I'm not rich from using my top-of-the-line metal detector either (I won't name the brand and it doesn't really matter anyway.) Can I pass Carl's trumped up test? I woudn't bet on it. Would I take his test? Yes if he paid me enough for my time but my rates are going to be steeper that one certain LRL manufacturer. Can I find gold with my LRL better than random chance? Yes, by a long ways. Can I do so every time without fail as in 100%? Probably not, but I did hit 100% in my test area over the course of one week. What does all this prove? Nothing. Would I go treasure hunting or even metal detecting without an LRL? No way.

Hi Mike,
I can think of a test that you can't do which does prove something.

I believe you can't pass a test to find items other people hide in a field you have never seen before even 50% of the time. I am talking about a grassy field 200 feet square where strangers who you never met before bury an object such as a coin or a ring 1 inch deep. 50% is no where near 100%, but it should be enough to demonstrate that you have some success with your LRL. Of course you would find good success if nobody else was watching, but I bet you can't get 50% or better if other people who you don't know are watching. I think you cannot do it because we never saw any real evidence you can do it even one time -- only a bunch of talk.

On the other hand, I think a metal detector can locate the hidden coin or ring every time. I have watched this happen for total strangers many times with different metal detectors.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

I spent countless hours developing the Revelation Locator Rod and hundreds of dollars on parts and tools. Each rod takes a few hours to build. Add in parts running, postage, etc. and it's a good bet you won't get it right on the first few attempts even if you steal my design. If that's not enough, this rod is for professionals. I have taken it to a couple dowsing conventions and most people--even some with L-rod experience--were unable to even keep it balanced. But yes, it is in a class all it's own. As I say it transcends smoothness. If you want the smoothest action rod in the world, this is it.

Mike, besides being smooth, can you tell me exactly what your Revelation Locator Rod can do? What did you design it to do, and what does it actually do?

Originally Posted by Mike(Mont)

Can I pass Carl's trumped up test? I woudn't bet on it. Would I take his test? Yes if he paid me enough for my time but my rates are going to be steeper that one certain LRL manufacturer. Can I find gold with my LRL better than random chance? Yes, by a long ways. Can I do so every time without fail as in 100%? Probably not, but I did hit 100% in my test area over the course of one week. What does all this prove? Nothing. Would I go treasure hunting or even metal detecting without an LRL? No way.

Mike, if you were trying to demonstrate your Revelation Locator Rod to a potential customer, how would you do it? I would assume that you would use a method that demonstrates some reasonable level of success, so can you describe a simple test scenario for your device that you feel you can succeed with, say, 70% of the time?

[g-sani]

Hi to everybody,
Do you sceptics know that human ears in order to hear or receive signals or sounds they have to transmit as well?
In other words, do you know that human ears work on a feedback system?
I believe that you don't.
Lets suppose that this one holds truth, then could one say that a human being comes equiped whith a very sophisticated LRL as a gift from God since the time of his birth?
Could this in turn be a tiny proof that a human being could also train himself to tune to gold so that he will be able to generate resonance?
Well this is what happens and this is dowsing but you have to watch out, because you mustn't be a sceptic to get it in practise.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Hi to everybody,
Do you sceptics know that human ears in order to hear or receive signals or sounds they have to transmit as well?

Yes ... but this transmission goes on deep within the inner workings of the ear.

Originally Posted by g-sani

In other words, do you know that human ears work on a feedback system?
I believe that you don't.

You are twisting the facts to suit your agenda.

Originally Posted by g-sani

Lets suppose that this one holds truth, then could one say that a human being comes equiped whith a very sophisticated LRL as a gift from God since the time of his birth?

Actually, this is a result of evolution, and has nothing to do with any deity. But we are not here to debate religious issues, so please stick with scientific facts.

Originally Posted by g-sani

Could this in turn be a tiny proof that a human being could also train himself to tune to gold so that he will be able to generate resonance?

No chance.

Originally Posted by g-sani

Well this is what happens and this is dowsing but you have to watch out, because you mustn't be a sceptic to get it in practise.

I think you are grasping at straws.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Hi to everybody,
Do you sceptics know that human ears in order to hear or receive signals or sounds they have to transmit as well?
In other words, do you know that human ears work on a feedback system?
I believe that you don't.
Lets suppose that this one holds truth, then could one say that a human being comes equiped whith a very sophisticated LRL as a gift from God since the time of his birth?
Could this in turn be a tiny proof that a human being could also train himself to tune to gold so that he will be able to generate resonance?
Well this is what happens and this is dowsing but you have to watch out, because you mustn't be a sceptic to get it in practise.

Hi G-sani,
I am a believer that your ears must send some tiny signal in order to hear, and they use feedback to work.
I know this proves something, but I am not sure what it proves exactly.

I am not asking for proof that the ear can hear gold.
I only ask to see somebody show their LRL or dowsing to find gold more than 50% of the time when strangers are watching.
So far I have seen no LRL find any gold at any time.

Of course I am an LRL believer...
but I believe LRL works only for times when strangers are not permitted to watch the recoveries.
I only ask to see a demonstration of LRL or dowsing successful to make recoveries 50% of the time when strangers area permitted to watch.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

At Greece a proverb says "what you got my John, what I have ever had"

or "always the same....."

Regards

[Astrodetect]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Mike,
I can think of a test that you can't do which does prove something.

I believe you can't pass a test to find items other people hide in a field you have never seen before even 50% of the time. I am talking about a grassy field 200 feet square where strangers who you never met before bury an object such as a coin or a ring 1 inch deep. 50% is no where near 100%, but it should be enough to demonstrate that you have some success with your LRL. Of course you would find good success if nobody else was watching, but I bet you can't get 50% or better if other people who you don't know are watching. I think you cannot do it because we never saw any real evidence you can do it even one time -- only a bunch of talk.

On the other hand, I think a metal detector can locate the hidden coin or ring every time. I have watched this happen for total strangers many times with different metal detectors.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi JPlayer
You still put the question on the wrong basis, dont forget that the object that the strangers will bury must be LONG TIME buried or else the LRL cannot work.
Regards

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Astrodetect

Hi JPlayer

LONG TIME buried or else the LRL cannot work.

How do you know this? From mineoro fraudulance excuse tale story?

How many LONG TIME buried treasure did you (or anyone else) found by LRL?

Where are those "fact" evidenced, published? For now we have evidenced and published only a lot of proven findings done with regular metal detector, and not one alone found by LRL.

Except in promo tale stories given from LRL scam producer, reseller and promotor like mineoro, rangertell, dr. Hung, Mike_Mont, OKM etc.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Astrodetect

Hi JPlayer
You still put the question on the wrong basis, dont forget that the object that the strangers will bury must be LONG TIME buried or else the LRL cannot work.
Regards

Hi Astrodetect,
The requirement for long time buried is only claimed for Brazilian LRLs and Middle East and some Mediterranean country LRLs.

In the USA long time buried is not necessary for LRL and dowsing.
There are dowsers and LRL users like Mike(Mont) all over the USA who say they find new things that are hidden.
Dell Winders shows on his web page people say they find hidden paper dollars using his LRL http://www.omnitron.net/del_prod.htm
And we see video of USA LRL user finding a fresh coin he put on the ground here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoKbjsC5oy8

You can see science in the USA does not work the same as science in Brazil and Greece.
This is because we see video and read stories to teach us short-time buried and never-buried treasures will work for LRL in the USA.
The problem is it will not work if strangers are watching when the LRL user tries to recover things that he does not know the location of (more new science from the USA).


Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Originally Posted by J_Player

The problem is it will not work if strangers are watching when the LRL user tries to recover things that he does not know the location of (more new science from the USA).

J_P

Of course, very naive strangers are not treated as strangers, so they can watch such hocus-pocus.

[g-sani]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi G-sani,
I am a believer that your ears must send some tiny signal in order to hear, and they use feedback to work.
I know this proves something, but I am not sure what it proves exactly.

I am not asking for proof that the ear can hear gold.
I only ask to see somebody show their LRL or dowsing to find gold more than 50% of the time when strangers are watching.
So far I have seen no LRL find any gold at any time.
Of course I am an LRL believer...
but I believe LRL works only for times when strangers are not permitted to watch the recoveries.
I only ask to see a demonstration of LRL or dowsing successful to make recoveries 50% of the time when strangers area permitted to watch.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P, I know that deeply inside you there is something saying that may be some LRL works and may be dowsing works but I haven't seen them.
I was in the same situation before until I saw it whith my eyes happening many times.I have to admit that it was more times whith dowsing instead whith LRLs.
I see up to now that you are a very educated person and I believe that you read a lot about many different subjects.
So if you ever see dowsing happening there is very good possibility for you after that to become a good dowser.I am sure it is going to happen because you will be interesting to learn more about it and try it in practise but in a more methological way taking your time as somebody should do.
Nobody from those that 'don't believe' ever realised that dowsing is something that takes quite some time for somebody to see results.There are special cases when somebody can dowse straight away successfully but then we don't talk for the majority of the people.
You have to train yourself in that.It is like a racing driver that day by day becomes better.But even in this case there will be a driver that wins the races most of the times.
My point is that there is no sceptic that tried dowsing for some time.All of them want it to happen straight away otherwise they swear that it doesn't work.
So here is the question.Did anyone of them ride a two wheel bicycle from the very first time he got on it?
No chance.Does that also mean that nobody can learn? Of course not.
So how are you sure people that dowsing doesn't work?

Originally Posted by Geo

At Greece a proverb says "what you got my John, what I have ever had"

or "always the same....."

Regards

I remembered another one
You can knock as much as you like on a deafs door.

Originally Posted by Astrodetect

Hi JPlayer
You still put the question on the wrong basis, dont forget that the object that the strangers will bury must be LONG TIME buried or else the LRL cannot work.
Regards

Exactly!

[Geo]

Originally Posted by WM6

How do you know this? From mineoro fraudulance excuse tale story?

How many LONG TIME buried treasure did you (or anyone else) found by LRL?

Where are those "fact" evidenced, published? For now we have evidenced and published only a lot of proven findings done with regular metal detector, and not one alone found by LRL.

Except in promo tale stories given from LRL scam producer, reseller and promotor like mineoro, rangertell, dr. Hung, Mike_Mont, OKM etc.

You forgot Morgan and me at Portugal when he located with PD the silver ring and the silver paper. All was many many years buried.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Astrodetect,
The requirement for long time buried is only claimed for Brazilian LRLs and Middle East and some Mediterranean country LRLs.

In the USA long time buried is not necessary for LRL and dowsing.
There are dowsers and LRL users like Mike(Mont) all over the USA who say they find new things that are hidden.
Dell Winders shows on his web page people say they find hidden paper dollars using his LRL http://www.omnitron.net/del_prod.htm
And we see video of USA LRL user finding a fresh coin he put on the ground here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoKbjsC5oy8

You can see science in the USA does not work the same as science in Brazil and Greece.
This is because we see video and read stories to teach us short-time buried and never-buried treasures will work for LRL in the USA.
The problem is it will not work if strangers are watching when the LRL user tries to recover things that he does not know the location of (more new science from the USA).


Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.

Now remembered Mike and Dell.....


Regards

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Hi J_P, I know that deeply inside you there is something saying that may be some LRL works and may be dowsing works but I haven't seen them.
I was in the same situation before until I saw it whith my eyes happening many times.I have to admit that it was more times whith dowsing instead whith LRLs.
I see up to now that you are a very educated person and I believe that you read a lot about many different subjects.
So if you ever see dowsing happening there is very good possibility for you after that to become a good dowser.I am sure it is going to happen because you will be interesting to learn more about it and try it in practise but in a more methological way taking your time as somebody should do.
Nobody from those that 'don't believe' ever realised that dowsing is something that takes quite some time for somebody to see results.There are special cases when somebody can dowse straight away successfully but then we don't talk for the majority of the people.
You have to train yourself in that.It is like a racing driver that day by day becomes better.But even in this case there will be a driver that wins the races most of the times.

My point is that there is no skeptic that tried dowsing for some time. All of them want it to happen straight away otherwise they swear that it doesn't work.
So here is the question. Did anyone of them ride a two wheel bicycle from the very first time he got on it?
No chance. Does that also mean that nobody can learn? Of course not.
So how are you sure people that dowsing doesn't work?


I remembered another one
You can knock as much as you like on a deafs door.

Hi g-sani,
You did not read my reply correctly.
I said I am a believer that LRLs work.
You don't need to convince me there are swiveling LRLs that work or people who dowse. I already know it.
The problem is they only work when strangers are not permitted to watch the recoveries of things that they don't know the location of.

Also, you do not understand... I am not asking for instructions to teach me how to dowse.
I have no need to learn how to dowse.
I am asking for someone who says they can dowse proficiently to demonstrate in front of strangers how they can find things that they do not know the location of.
Or someone who has an LRL that will swivel and point to the treasure to demonstrate in front of strangers how they can find things that they do not know the location of.
I believe even a good dowser cannot proficiently locate things that other people hide.
Not even half the time. I think he can find them only when he is lucky, same as a person who is not a dowser.
I believe this is true because I never saw it happen or heard a credible report that it ever happened consistently for an object is hidden in a place where the dowser does not know.
I also watched everyone fail who tried to locate things that they did not know the location of with a swiveling LRL which is claimed to point to the hidden treasure.
If I am wrong, and many dowsers can do this, then why have we never seen one them do it in front of strangers when they do not know the location of the object?

But I have seen a real dowser find gold which he knew the location of.
I watched with my own eyes the rods cross when he stepped past the gold nugget he placed on the ground.
So I know it works because I already saw it.
You can see the same kind of proof that I saw if you watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoKbjsC5oy8
You can see it proves the LRL rod swings when he walks past the object he places on the ground.

What I have not seen is to watch the dowser's rods cross (or LRL point) when they step over a gold ring that I hide so they don't know the location.
This is what I would like to see.

Also note: I have watched people fail to find a gold ring every time when I hide it in a place they don't know, while they are using a new swiveling LRL.

Best wishes,
J_P

[g-sani]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi g-sani,
You did not read my reply correctly.
I said I am a believer that LRLs work.
You don't need to convince me there are swiveling LRLs that work or people who dowse. I already know it.
The problem is they only work when strangers are not permitted to watch the recoveries of things that they don't know the location of.

Also, you do not understand... I am not asking for instructions to teach me how to dowse.
I have no need to learn how to dowse.
I am asking for someone who says they can dowse proficiently to demonstrate in front of strangers how they can find things that they do not know the location of.
Or someone who has an LRL that will swivel and point to the treasure to demonstrate in front of strangers how they can find things that they do not know the location of.
I believe even a good dowser cannot proficiently locate things that other people hide.
Not even half the time. I think he can find them only when he is lucky, same as a person who is not a dowser.
I believe this is true because I never saw it happen or heard a credible report that it ever happened consistently for an object is hidden in a place where the dowser does not know.
I also watched everyone fail who tried to locate things that they did not know the location of with a swiveling LRL which is claimed to point to the hidden treasure.
If I am wrong, and many dowsers can do this, then why have we never seen one them do it in front of strangers when they do not know the location of the object?

But I have seen a real dowser find gold which he knew the location of.
I watched with my own eyes the rods cross when he stepped past the gold nugget he placed on the ground.
So I know it works because I already saw it.
You can see the same kind of proof that I saw if you watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoKbjsC5oy8
You can see it proves the LRL rod swings when he walks past the object he places on the ground.

What I have not seen is to watch the dowser's rods cross (or LRL point) when they step over a gold ring that I hide so they don't know the location.
This is what I would like to see.

Also note: I have watched people fail to find a gold ring every time when I hide it in a place they don't know, while they are using a new swiveling LRL.

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P, there are many people around advertising themselves as dowsers when they are not.Beter to say that they are not accomplished yet.Which one is accomplished?
Difficult question but I will try to answer it.
The dowser that goes out in a place by chance whithout knowing what types of metal might be hidden there and he spots some and he verifies them by bringing them up from the ground is an accomplished dowser.Of course it has to be happen many times and much more than 50% of the times.I have been out dowsing whith a guy that can always dowse in a place and find what he has said that it is bellow the surface or the place he spotted.
So why you don't ask somebody to hide some gold in a big place whithout anybody knowing him or the place he put it and ask the dowser to go there alone and try and find it whithout the strangers arround him?
Wouldn't be a fair test? I believe it would.
Strangers arround can make a whole of a difference even to good dowsers but I assure you that they are some that they don't really care if it is somebody arround them or not.These ones proved to themselves many times what they can do and they will never try to convince others about that because it is like admitting that they don't trust their act any more.So how can they do it then? They fail because you ask them again and again something they allready know and that they have answered many times. It is like putting preasure to someone to forget what he knows up to that time asking him in other words to admitt that he goes nuts.Asking somebody a question taking his answer and asking the same thing again and again is madness.
When was that time when they have showed what they can do?
When me and some others saw it happening whith our eyes or tried it on ourselves.
It might happen for you as well one day but it might not.We are here offering you our experience as you are doing whith yours.
Believe us to believe you!
As simple as that.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by g-sani

Hi J_P, there are many people around advertising themselves as dowsers when they are not.Beter to say that they are not accomplished yet.Which one is accomplished?
Difficult question but I will try to answer it.
The dowser that goes out in a place by chance whithout knowing what types of metal might be hidden there and he spots some and he verifies them by bringing them up from the ground is an accomplished dowser.Of course it has to be happen many times and much more than 50% of the times.I have been out dowsing whith a guy that can always dowse in a place and find what he has said that it is bellow the surface or the place he spotted.
So why you don't ask somebody to hide some gold in a big place whithout anybody knowing him or the place he put it and ask the dowser to go there alone and try and find it whithout the strangers arround him?
Wouldn't be a fair test? I believe it would.
Strangers arround can make a whole of a difference even to good dowsers but I assure you that they are some that they don't really care if it is somebody arround them or not.These ones proved to themselves many times what they can do and they will never try to convince others about that because it is like admitting that they don't trust their act any more.So how can they do it then? They fail because you ask them again and again something they allready know and that they have answered many times. It is like putting preasure to someone to forget what he knows up to that time asking him in other words to admitt that he goes nuts.Asking somebody a question taking his answer and asking the same thing again and again is madness.
When was that time when they have showed what they can do?
When me and some others saw it happening whith our eyes or tried it on ourselves.
It might happen for you as well one day but it might not.We are here offering you our experience as you are doing whith yours.
Believe us to believe you!
As simple as that.

Hi g-sani,

I believe... I believe

So we can make the test your way.
I will hide a gold ring every day in a large grassy field 200 feet square at 10:00 am.
Then I will set a video camera at the edge of the field to show everything that happens in the field before I leave.
At noon, the dowser can come when the field is empty and nobody watching. He will have from noon until 2:00pm to hunt for the ring I hide.
We will not tell him there is a video camera watching, so he will not worry about watching.
We only ask him to see if he can find the lost ring in the field, and we send a car to bring him home at 2:00pm.
Then we repeat this test every day for 10 days.
We can then see if he brings back the ring 5 times or more for 50% success.
When the 10 days are done, we can look at the videos to make sure he is using his dowsing and LRL to find the ring....
not metal detectors... (we already know metal detector can find the ring every time).

If he is not successful to find the ring 50% of the time, then we can go fishing...
Fishing also is not the best for success, but is more fun than to hunt for a lost ring.


best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Hi J_P

Things are more simple.
You go out with the dowsing man for treasure hunting. Sure he will locate some coins or other objects and he will take out of the ground with your presence

Regards

[g-sani]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi g-sani,

I believe... I believe

So we can make the test your way.
I will hide a gold ring every day in a large grassy field 200 feet square at 10:00 am.
Then I will set a video camera at the edge of the field to show everything that happens in the field before I leave.
At noon, the dowser can come when the field is empty and nobody watching. He will have from noon until 2:00pm to hunt for the ring I hide.
We will not tell him there is a video camera watching, so he will not worry about watching.
We only ask him to see if he can find the lost ring in the field, and we send a car to bring him home at 2:00pm.
Then we repeat this test every day for 10 days.
We can then see if he brings back the ring 5 times or more for 50% success.
When the 10 days are done, we can look at the videos to make sure he is using his dowsing and LRL to find the ring....
not metal detectors... (we already know metal detector can find the ring every time).

If he is not successful to find the ring 50% of the time, then we can go fishing...
Fishing also is not the best for success, but is more fun than to hunt for a lost ring.


best wishes,
J_P

Yes this is very good test but you don't need to do it for 10 days.Two or three different times will be enough.
The ring is so small in a very big place compared to its size.
It will be one in a million shot for somebody to find it by luck.So imaging this happening twice.
Have a look here somebody demonstrating his skills out in a beach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k69fIFEwQWk
You see somebody from the people there gives him his wedding ring and he is trying finding a ring or as he says he might find something similar to it.
If you say that this guy was his friend and they planned this to fool people then is nothing else we can talk.
As you see the ring he discovered from the dowser is plastic and the people arround ask him how can he find something plastic?
He did it because he programmed himself to find anything similar so the metal target was not a must for him.
If this video is also a fake then lets go fishing.

[Qiaozhi]

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Geo

You go out with the dowsing man for treasure hunting. Sure he will locate some coins or other objects and he will take out of the ground with your presence

Originally Posted by g-sani

Yes this is very good test but you don't need to do it for 10 days.Two or three different times will be enough.
The ring is so small in a very big place compared to its size.
It will be one in a million shot for somebody to find it by luck.So imaging this happening twice.

This is because you think this way that you are convinced dowsing works, and the we have never seen a real proof of it.

[hung]

.

[hung]

[Max]

nothing new about LRLs... just big claims and jokes I see