Simple but brilliant LRL

[Funfinder]

@ Esteban
Yeah, I hope your eye is healthy very soon, too.

And shure 12.000 Euro (ca. 15.000 Dollars) is a huge amount of money, especially if you have already alot good working LRLs.

But I hope you did or will find with them gold treasures worth a few millions so this money would be just peanuts for you...

I really hope at least you will find a way to test some Bionic Alpha or Bionic 01 for us, even without buying.

[Funfinder]

I've found out for the long time ago artefacts the Bionic Alpha uses an "ions count system".

So what is this exactly? Is it comparable with radioactivity-detectors?

If so noble metal like gold has to produce some energetic particles that radiates or got transported with the electrostatic field like Mineoro explains.

This is ion-radiation and not ion-particles that move into nearby ground.

Is Mineoro shure that this 24k gold-foil inside of the FG80 chamber attracts gold-ion-radiation only? I doubt, because it is metal and metal would attract all kind of metal-ions.

btw. OKM has written:

The technology of OKM metal detectors has been certified and well tested

But certified from whom?

Anyway - we'll check out the big secret about the Bionic Alpha and 01 - just a matter of time, money and motivation!

[Funfinder]

Originally Posted by Morgan

JUST ONE SHORT STORY ABOUT OKM


One friend buy the BIONIC 01 and go search in frontier near Austria-Hungria, in special celtic territory where already treasures have ben found.
The place is where the celts buried ofers to their gods.
The owner of this BIONIC 01,search during one week all this place and surounds and said no more treasures,he finds NOTHING !!!
A week latter some of my friend go to the same place with powerful metal detector and dig five medium size treasures !!! Was schulde ich ihnen ? OKM is to deceive people,sorry to tell,i know you are from Germany but this BIONIC´s are useles...
Attachment 12279

First you can not know that "you are from Germany" because I'm from Austria and second what do like to say with "Was schulde ich ihnen?" alias "How much or what do i owe you?"

According to Estebans explaination the strong radiation aka EM-field-oscillation MDs and especially the powerful metal detectors of your fellows create can or will definitive kill the very weak eletectrostatic currents. And if there are also iron objects buried it would also reduce the chance for detection.

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...t=16320&page=3
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=56

3. If you put a small iron object near the object, the distance decreases.

4. If you put a large iron object on the target area may disappear almost completely, except for a treasure or a large object, good conductor.

(...)

6. If you put a MD (on) over the target for 15 minutes or less, the "phenomenon" dissapears. So oscillations consumes the "phenomenon". The "phenomenon" recovers after X time.

And one page before on post #50 Esteban wrote:

I explain millions times. When you put oscillator near item, also you're killed the phenomenon.

Blaming Mineoro or OKM their "expensive" or even worse "scam" devices don't work is easy and cheap, but finding out the true reasons would be much more constructive for all of us if we wanna end up successfully with the whole long range problematic.

And I'm shure the weak electrostatic fields of this celtic-site have been already completly eradicated by hords of detectorists since a very long time!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

Blaming Mineoro or OKM their "expensive" or even worse "scam" devices don't work is easy and cheap, but finding out the true reasons would be much more constructive for all of us if we wanna end up successfully with the whole long range problematic.

And I'm shure the weak electrostatic fields of this celtic-site have been already completly eradicated by hords of detectorists since a very long time!

Ummmm...
Does this mean you are ready to buy the OKM now?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

I've found out for the long time ago artefacts the Bionic Alpha uses an "ions count system".

So what is this exactly? Is it comparable with radioactivity-detectors?

If so noble metal like gold has to produce some energetic particles that radiates or got transported with the electrostatic field like Mineoro explains.

This is ion-radiation and not ion-particles that move into nearby ground.

Is Mineoro shure that this 24k gold-foil inside of the FG80 chamber attracts gold-ion-radiation only? I doubt, because it is metal and metal would attract all kind of metal-ions.

btw. OKM has written:

But certified from whom?

Anyway - we'll check out the big secret about the Bionic Alpha and 01 - just a matter of time, money and motivation!

Just popular expresion, HOW MUCH ATENTION SHOULD I PAY FOR THIS BIONIC 01...

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

I've found out for the long time ago artefacts the Bionic Alpha uses an "ions count system".

So what is this exactly? Is it comparable with radioactivity-detectors?

If so noble metal like gold has to produce some energetic particles that radiates or got transported with the electrostatic field like Mineoro explains.

This is ion-radiation and not ion-particles that move into nearby ground.

Is Mineoro shure that this 24k gold-foil inside of the FG80 chamber attracts gold-ion-radiation only? I doubt, because it is metal and metal would attract all kind of metal-ions.

btw. OKM has written:

But certified from whom?

Anyway - we'll check out the big secret about the Bionic Alpha and 01 - just a matter of time, money and motivation!

The celtic place,maybe is searched,but not so often that all the electromagnetic fields are destroyed,this consist in several treasures hide in the most strange places and circunstances around one large lake surouded by mountains. I´m waiting for some spare time to search there with my LRL´s...

[Funfinder]

I can tell you what:
How to finally built this detector really was a hard nut to crack. But now I'm really happy.

I decided to use the case of a wiresearcher because it is light-weight, has already place for a 9v block plus electronic and a practical handle.

I don't care if the case is out of plastic because I recognised those small electrical charges from that vanish very fast.

Into the front side is melted a female chinch jack so I can check out all kind of different antennas. The 3,5mm stereo jack is on the top side for active speaker or even ear-phones.
Nearby is a small switch that is connected to a variable capacitor. If it's off, the JFETs antenna will got the full power, but sometimes the electrostatic field or signals are too strong so I can put it on and tune it to the best level. The knob of that capacitor is located on the side.

Soon I will update the schematics so you know where it's connected and I really recommend to add such a variable capacitor, too.

On the front side is the battery-case, the ultrabright LED and an on/off switch.

All in all is the size only 15 x 8 x 3cm and with active box 20cm. Of course without the antenna, but because the JFETs gate wire inside of the detector is ca. 5cm there is already a pretty good detection of electrostratic fields or nearby electricity!

Have fun and good luck if you built the same cool device.

PS.: If hold this detector near the plasma-ball the LED starts to shine even if the device is switched off!

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

Have you already visited www.nuggets.at in Klagenfurt to test the Jeohunter on your own??? For shure not, because you are much too lazy, ignorant, incopetend and incapable to do this!

Wrong conclusion, the only reason is that Jeohunter is only good for vampire hunting in combination with Bionic 01 laser.

[Funfinder]

Here are the final and complete schematics:

[WM6]

Far better tha this stollen "by Funfinder" versions is this D. Mohan Kumar version, which can distinkt between negative an positive ions:

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

Here are the final and complete schematics:

Looks to work very good.
When you have time can test in field and inform results.

Regards

[Funfinder]

@ WM6

Far better tha this stollen "by Funfinder"...

Stop telling us sociopathic nonsens here, you evil liar! I did invented this schematic completly on my own!

And your posted circuit for shure is not better, look at all these resistors, those make everything completly unsensitive!
Made out of hard to get and expensive parts. btw. I miss the very important audio output, too.


@ Morgan
I've made the first test yesterday but it was raining - I used a 10cm spiral radio antenna. No problems with the plastic housing at all. Next I will try a 20cm diam. tin-cover of cookie-box as directional "electrode-antenna". Like the sat-receiver cover it will has much more gain.

> The celtic place,maybe is searched,but not so often that all the electromagnetic fields are destroyed,

OK, I understand. A second question would be: Is there just only gold to find on this site? And a third one: Did your friends from Germany found already at least anything, how many lucrative places they have visited so far and what is their actual opinion about the Bionic 01?


@ J_Player
For shure I won't buy some OKM Bionic that fast, but I'm seriously motivated finding out how and how good those works. There is also a Detector-Forum meeting in south germany in a few weeks, perhaps I go there and somebody can take his Bionic there so we can test it.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

And your posted circuit for shure is not better, look at all these resistors, those make everything completly unsensitive!

.

Unsensitive? You even do not understand how electrostatic sensor work.

And dont be funny, MD web forums (geotech too) are full of schematic like yours. What you do is only camouflage very known schematics into funny symbols.

There is no problem to build high sensitivity static (or ionic) sensor, problem is to biuld high directivity sensor. Hic Rhodos - hic salta!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by WM6

Unsensitive? You even do not understand how electrostatic sensor work.

And dont be funny, MD web forums (geotech too) are full of schematic like yours. What you do is only camouflage very known schematics into funny symbols.

There is no problem to build high sensitivity static (or ionic) sensor, problem is to biuld high directivity sensor. Hic Rhodos - hic salta!

This looks like maybe a good circuit for detecting charges in the air. I wonder how well it works for locating buried metal at a distance?

Best wishes,
J_P

[WM6]

Originally Posted by J_Player

I wonder how well it works for locating buried metal at a distance?

If you are born dowser it can be so easy as by dowsing rod. For others it is only simple static charge detector.

[Infamy]

I can't decide if this is tripe or spam, lets make it easy, its crap, a swamp full of crap. Better still a swamp full of LRL crap. Have your defective brains managed to kill anyone this year?

Why don't you **** off and do something useful for a change.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Infamy

I can't decide if this is tripe or spam, lets make it easy, its crap, a swamp full of crap. Better still a swamp full of LRL crap. Have your defective brains managed to kill anyone this year?

Why don't you **** off and do something useful for a change.

Hi infamy

I dont understand you. Are you PRO or CONS LRL?

[Funfinder]

Originally Posted by WM6

Hi infamy

I dont understand you. Are you PRO or CONS LRL?

Sorry if I answer, but what a stupid question!!

We all shouldn't be pro or con LRLs but pro understanding and pro technical details! Open minded to try and test new electronic inventions or discoveries!
And critical enough to sort out truth from lies!

As we know already from Morgan, Geo and others here there are working and not working LRLs out there. Of course we want a 100% working one so we have to understand why it works and under which circumstances it will not work! Comparable topic: If it is snowing some sat-dishes also don't work...

Are we in kindergarten or is this so complicated to understand?


> problem is to biuld high directivity sensor

I would say the problem is that the electrostatic field looks more like a distorted cloud or balloon and the voltage/strengh of the field raises proportional to the distance and gets overpropotional stronger the more you came near. So a high directive sensor is simple not possible - only a high sensitive one, so we can sense already the weaker edges of the energie-field.

It's comparable if the flash strikes the tip of the highest tree and not the roof out ouf metal which is just 3m below and much larger.

If we think about the behaviour of high-voltages you know that for every 1000volts the spark can jump ca. 1mm - (10kV = 1cm spark etc.) no matter how many milli-/amperes.

If you came near enough to the electrostatic field, you can sense it, but you also will unload/decharge it, if it isn't connected to some energy source. I could test this very good with my new detector. Comparable with shortcutting a battery. However the sparks alias electrons are very small and the most time invisible.

Enough theory:
Here are some first indoor testresults so we can compare the sensitivity of our electrostatic-detectors:

Detection of the 220V cable of my powered on LCD-monitor:
with inbuilt 5cm antenna: 5cm
with 20cm dish-antenna: 50cm

50cm distance if the flat side (front) looks to the cable, 35cm if the edge looks to the cable. So it works pretty good directional.

But perhaps 20cm are not enough...

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

As we know ...

Open minded to try and test new electronic inventions or discoveries!

.

Who are "we"?

Now you are open minded to LRL inventors? And this was writing by your brother not by you?:


............. So for the justice it's very easy to hunt them down and take those "fantasy-inventors" out once and for all if their stuff doesn't hold what it promises for often a huge amount of money!

........... Pseudowaves and bionic-stuff. The human body can't even recognise very strong waves of an emitting radio-antenna nearby, so how it should detect stuff that is 100m away?! By magic, by demonic help, by "bionic sensitivity"??? Absolutly ridiculous.

If some elements really should radiate at a special frequency or can be brought to interference to special rays this is provable, if an electronic device claims it can find the right location. Because such device doesn't move by magic but by measurable forces.

Put the device on a table and a goldring behind it and look if it turns on its own in this direction. If not, throw it away and sue the sellers *ss off! If you don't do this, you indirectly support such types for betraying further and further more people!

I really have no idea how it is possible such "not working devices" can be sold at all, but even kellyco offers "Anderson Rods" for a high price. What about those people dreaming at night who buy such stuff? That they are now become a great fortune-teller or what? That their hands will become magic? Stupidity to the hilt!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

As we know already from Morgan, Geo and others here there are working and not working LRLs out there.

This is not even true. We don't know this at all!

There are many people who choose to believe this because it is what they were told and because they saw a videotape. But nobody can possibly know this is true except Geo or Morgan, who actually experienced it rather than taking someone else's word and believing what they were told. If "we already know from Morgan, Geo and others", then we would also "already know from the LRL salesman in some distant country, or the Nigerian diplomat who wants to deposit large sums of money in your bank account.

To know and to believe are two different things. One constitutes truth, the other constitutes faith.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

I believe that the operation of a lrl is different between day to day or hour to hour or Country to Country.
I saw some lrls that work but only one was stable. Only one of them work every time every day if the temperature is more than 5...10 degrees of celcium. The other lrls especially here at Greece don't work every time, every day at every grounds.
At Greece there are a lot of iron oxides in the ground so it is more difficult to construct a more stable lrl, in oposite to Portugal or Brazil or Paraguay.
I believe that this is the reason who some people that constructed a lot of lrls can't give then to the shops for selling (see Alonso, Esteban etc).

Regards

ps..
I apologize from Esteban because I used his name in my above hypothetical thought

[Funfinder]

There is a really huge information-vaccuum we have to fill with pressured-air alias serious knowledge!


Geo, it is the right direction guessing what could be the reason why your LRLs in Greece have problems, but even this just only can be the first step. We need to know for shure which kind of interferences, ground-behaviour and negative-factors interact with the LRL or make it "worthless". Because it has to do a good job and should work reliable and versatile.


J_Player, we shouldn't use "faith categories" here at all.
Shure, a higher rate of trustworthy persons that will swear that their LRLs work would suggest a higher chance of truth, but this would be still just "hearsay".

What we need is proofable info and repeatable test-results. And not another whole 5 years of some discussion without any useful results.

J_Player, what do you think about this posting:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=498

Must be a lie, sounds unbelievable, those tests are faked etc.? Well, the US reseller of OKM is in Florida - some 1000miles away from you. I don't know if you will go there, after all your negative experiences with LRLs.

But what we have to do is to fill up those damned information-vaccuum and stop all those worthless speculations. Or the LRL-train could start in direction "El Dorado" without us on board.

We have to make alot technical experiments and get in contact with some chief-producers so those can assure us that their products work and why.

I won't discuss here as long as we haven't got really good and new useful information. All this guessing and "believing yes or not" is absolutly useless - a waste of precious time.

btw. there is another important argument worth thinking about:

If I would sell Hitec-LRLs for 10.000 bucks - what people would buy them? Poor, stupid and powerless or strong, mighty, rich, intelligent and powerful people?! Think about it. If I would sell useless crap to such persons with alot influence, good lawyers and psychological skill I would not survive very long - that's for shure! And if Mineoro or OKM (at the moment I don't care about the rest) would just sell worthless sh*t, they could not go on to do such a dirty job for even one year! Mineoro would have been killed by the brazil maffia and the OKM engineers would detect "iron bars" in jail.

There is a massive gap between some geotech-forum members and LRL-engineeers that has to be filled very fast. Because alot here would be potential customers, supporters and users of LRL equipment - but of course only if it is working! Me too.


btw. there is a complete other important topic with LRLs:
The "resolution" - the target-angle!

Large coils of conventional MDs doesn't find very small coins or gold nuggets very well!
Because of the resolution!
But scanning the horizon with some LRL is the same stuff:
If the LRL has an opening angle of only 2° you could find single coins at 50m distance, but you also would have to scan very accurate the whole area - this could take hours!

If the LRL has a detection angle of 30° you just could sweep a few times around and the whole area is covered, but for shure on cost of sensitivity!

We must keep this in mind! The more the LRL works like a directional antenna, the smaller the angle and the more complex the search of the near and distant search-field!

If the Bionic 01 just has a 2 degree-efficience (and I guess it is that small because if the Laser pin-pointer is just some 10-30cm away from the target, there is no longer a recognition!) it would be no wonder if someone doesn't find anything if he just "waves" a bit around with this devices. Because with such inefficent "scanning the area"-technic he or she would only covers 5-10% of the whole area. Especially while walking and detecting.



Finally a question about the electrostatic sensitivity:

Can someone here who has a Mineoro or some electrost. receiver test from what distance it detects a usual household electricity wire (that is active) and also tell us the antenna-size?

This is important so we know the approx. sensitivity range the receiver must have at least for detecting the field of buried metal objects.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

... J_Player, we shouldn't use "faith categories" here at all.
Shure, a higher rate of trustworthy persons that will swear that their LRLs work would suggest a higher chance of truth, but this would be still just "hearsay".

Yes, everything you read is hearsay. The only thing you know is what you experience for yourself. The world runs on faith. We have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow, and that the laws for our country will be the same tomorrow, and that the money we put in a bank will be there to retrieve when we want it. We have faith that people tell us the truth and the news reports we watch on TV are accurate so we have good information. But we see that sometimes the things we have faith in turn out to be a disappointment. So we make assessments of the source that we place our faith in, so we will not be surprised by the agony of misplaced expectations. When it comes to spending 10.000 EU, maybe it is wise to find out as much real information as possible before believing. If your expectations are not met, then it is doubtful you will get your 10.000 returned.

Originally Posted by Funfinder

What we need is proofable info and repeatable test-results. And not another whole 5 years of some discussion without any useful results.

J_Player, what do you think about this posting:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=498

Must be a lie, sounds unbelievable, those tests are faked etc.? Well, the US reseller of OKM is in Florida - some 1000miles away from you. I don't know if you will go there, after all your negative experiences with LRLs.

I think I am reading another report about a machine which I know consists of cheap magnetometers and a processor that can be built for about $300 or less. I have no reason to believe any OKM detector can detect gold at this point. I would believe it is detecting gold after I ran my own experiments and could watch it locate gold that I know has been buried in a field for over 10,000 years. To be more specific, I have no use for a detector that is claimed to find a piece of gold after I calibrate it to beep at the gold, then hide the gold and find it again. The gold I want to find has not been dug up before, and we cannot calibrate the machine against it when I go on a treasure hunt. I want a machine that will show me where to find new treasure in a field so I can dig it up and put it in my museum of cool stuff I found. Not a machine that will tell me where I am hiding something.

Second, I have heard other similar reports to this one, and even watched videos like he describes which indicate to me the detector is sensing only a magnetic signature for the position and azimuth it is calibrated for. The nature of the sensors prevents it from working at other compass direction after it has been calibrated. Of course I could change my mind if I had some personal experience watching any OKM product responding as if it is not relying soley on magnetic signatures to perform the locating function...
Or I could become convinced if I could see any OKM detector consistently show me where to place my shovel to dig some metal that has never been dug before, just like a metal detector does. But I read only hearsay stories and watch videos of non-gold detecting performance from sources which WM6 intimates are people who want to promote the OKM. If we are expected to believe reports from people who have actual experience with OKM detectors, then why should I listen only to the reports that say it is an amazing gold detector, when there are many more actual experience reports from treasure hunters who say they cannot find gold with it, and is complete junk in a fancy box?

I can put my faith in the videos and reports that say OKM is a fantastic gold-finding machine and spend 10.000 EU, or I can wait until someone demonstrates it working in live experience to find gold in the manner a treasure hunter would use it, and keep my 10.000 EU. Which would you rather do?

Originally Posted by Funfinder

But what we have to do is to fill up those damned information-vaccuum and stop all those worthless speculations. Or the LRL-train could start in direction "El Dorado" without us on board.

We have to make alot technical experiments and get in contact with some chief-producers so those can assure us that their products work and why.

I won't discuss here as long as we haven't got really good and new useful information. All this guessing and "believing yes or not" is absolutly useless - a waste of precious time.

More hearsay and assurances from producers of OKM? More hearsay experiments?
Why not spare yourself the time of endless talk and more experiments and simply get someone with an OKM to show you it finding a treasure that they don't know the location of.
You know... find a treasure in the field like you find with a metal detector, without holding the treasure in front of your detector and burying it first. Isn't personal experience the only real test?
Who cares about what parlor tricks you can get the OKM to do if it can't help you find a treasure?

Originally Posted by Funfinder

btw. there is another important argument worth thinking about:

If I would sell Hitec-LRLs for 10.000 bucks - what people would buy them? Poor, stupid and powerless or strong, mighty, rich, intelligent and powerful people?! Think about it. If I would sell useless crap to such persons with alot influence, good lawyers and psychological skill I would not survive very long - that's for shure! And if Mineoro or OKM (at the moment I don't care about the rest) would just sell worthless sh*t, they could not go on to do such a dirty job for even one year! Mineoro would have been killed by the brazil maffia and the OKM engineers would detect "iron bars" in jail.

Not true. Nobody takes much action against LRL producers. Most LRLs are made small scale for a small market of people who usually give up trying to get their money back. You can ask Carl-NC about this. He acquired many of his LRLs for pennies on the dollar from people who paid full price and found they don't work, then gave up on trying to get their money back. The LRL companies seldom go to jail because nobody chases them down and demands it. The larger producers are making fortunes selling their wares to the governments of many countries as security detectors that will locate bombs or contraband. These producers don't spend much time in jail, if any. But the money they earn is enormous... well into the millions. Take a look at this page: http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com/
Do you think Jim Mcormick is very saddened by his short visit to the local authorities, who only decided to make him stop exporting to a specified list of places? It looks like he lives in a very nice home today. Don't you think so?

Originally Posted by Funfinder

There is a massive gap between some geotech-forum members and LRL-engineeers that has to be filled very fast. Because alot here would be potential customers, supporters and users of LRL equipment - but of course only if it is working! Me too.

This gap is very easy to eliminate. Simply let the people with these working LRLs demonstrate them working to find treasure that they don't know where is buried. If they can do this consistently instead of making talk, then maybe someone would believe them.

Originally Posted by Funfinder

btw. there is a complete other important topic with LRLs:
The "resolution" - the target-angle!

Large coils of conventional MDs doesn't find very small coins or gold nuggets very well!
Because of the resolution!
But scanning the horizon with some LRL is the same stuff:
If the LRL has an opening angle of only 2° you could find single coins at 50m distance, but you also would have to scan very accurate the whole area - this could take hours!

If the LRL has a detection angle of 30° you just could sweep a few times around and the whole area is covered, but for shure on cost of sensitivity!

We must keep this in mind! The more the LRL works like a directional antenna, the smaller the angle and the more complex the search of the near and distant search-field!

If the Bionic 01 just has a 2 degree-efficience (and I guess it is that small because if the Laser pin-pointer is just some 10-30cm away from the target, there is no longer a recognition!) it would be no wonder if someone doesn't find anything if he just "waves" a bit around with this devices. Because with such inefficent "scanning the area"-technic he or she would only covers 5-10% of the whole area. Especially while walking and detecting.

... Or could it be the two fluxgate sensors cannot be moved to a different compass angle after they are set for a specific direction?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Funfinder

Finally a question about the electrostatic sensitivity:

Can someone here who has a Mineoro or some electrost. receiver test from what distance it detects a usual household electricity wire (that is active) and also tell us the antenna-size?

This is important so we know the approx. sensitivity range the receiver must have at least for detecting the field of buried metal objects.

Hi.
Outside of my Lab i have a refrigerator.
When the "motor-compresor" works, i locate the wire from 3m far. If it don't work i locate it from 20...30 cm. This is electromagnetic field and not electrostatic. As antenna i use a round coil 20cm diameter.

[Infamy]

I have a long wave radio, it picks up power lines from over 100m away, anyone interested, only 1000 Euros.

Here's a new prefix, lrl-s h i t.

How many hoards can you name that have been found with lrl-s h i t?