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#51
07-10-2007, 10:00 AM
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Afterwards the course, end publication of drawings. Complete drawings has only Esteban, also complete manufacture gift, I will only take one my friend Geo. When they are published drawings, without authorisation .....
 You lose and you will wait for hope of finding something good. CONCLUSION.. Robert or Papanic (same person) will can helps you. They is very good and.....has...  complete drawings
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#53
07-10-2007, 03:08 PM
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Hi Geo, thanks for the explaination. Seems really easy to use. Now we have to discover how it works to define what's the operating principle behind this. lets guess... HERE ARE JUST MY GUESSES : I'm sure there are problems with noise due to power lines etc like other lrl suffer from. I guess could be extremely unstable in presence of E fields. Think that tx stage sends sharp step function bursts at 800KHz carrier frequency by a tuned antenna to minimize losses due to impedence asymm between osc section and radiating element(s) and think it need a gnd plane too. I guess that it has a broadband amplifier in rx stage and then some kind of filtering system to get just only wanted variations on received signal. I guess too that device could be made by a kind of off-resonance detector where target signal unbalance normal cancellation thus resulting in audio signal. Resonance point would be located, for me, at normal signal feedback response from clean "ground" - this is done in preliminary setup (putting sens at middle...). Then after a short 800khz burst, signal is detected and then filtered. Must be some correlation between metal object and rx freq. variation (just few Hz or decade of Hz). At the end, if guesses are right, I would consider it as an enhanced kind of TR/off-resonance metal detector, based on same idea of original off-resonance detectors with coils, but in the hi part of long waves spectrum, without search coils and with antenna(s). Probably some ELF generation is due to burst function (generates infinite set of harmonics at various freq.) and what's detected is an interference due to sum or sub of main rx freq (due to soil matrix) and signal from object skin effects due to eddy currents flowing in surface of target. To find out if this is true a simple test could be made using a 2x2'' piece of foil, buried say at 10'' underground from say 2 meters away. AS I SAID BEFORE, JUST MY GUESSES  don't take for rock-solid-solution...IS USEFUL ? CAN DETECT STUFF UNDERGROUND ? WHAT KIND OF STUFF ? AT HOW DEEP? THERE ARE FALSE SIGNALS ? CAN DISC ? I don't know can just guess - I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars to test myself one of these (and not even less).  Best regards, Max
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#54
07-10-2007, 06:21 PM
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equal
As i said before....
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#55
07-10-2007, 08:41 PM
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#56
07-11-2007, 12:57 AM
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Hallo to everyone
 !I guess that only the real owner of this machine knows if it works and up to which level, and as it seems, this is Andreas Even if it works or not, the fact that a mindless gave the drawings without permission,... was immoral! To test something and criticize if it works or not, needs first to build it. During the last thousands of years, if we became what we are, is thanks to the free spirit researchers, who tried to solve the world's mysteries, without limitations and taboos! Today in 2007 it supposed that we learned at least... to saw some respect for claims, that we can't distinguish! 
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#57
07-11-2007, 05:38 AM
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Sorry but i never tried Zahori, so i dont know. The only thing that i know is that i tried the LRL by Andreas and it works. I never said that i found gold with it (i had it for short time) but it worked with iron, rust iron... and coper. Now how it works....... i think that only Andreas and Esteban knows. I would like to see the schematic diagram but Andreas dont give it to me (Why Andreas....). If i had the schematic maybe to had modidied it..... maybe. My regards
__________________
Geo
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#58
07-11-2007, 12:33 PM
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?
Where are drawing preamp antenna? Where are drawing dumy load? Where are drawing of antenna. I don't personaly interest itself for what has been published (they is useless for me), But I am very distressed for publication without personal authorisation. And one last.... THEY IS NOT LRL, BUT, CLEAN ELECTRONIC APPLIANCE
Robert or Papanic YOU ARE LOST also you and all really amateur, we are only to blaim you. I took good course. They is time to take also you. regards
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#60
07-11-2007, 03:54 PM
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origami
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just tried to figure out what's inside that "new" pistol... takes only 5 minutes...not much time. Kind of relax, like making ORIGAMI or paper-planes. Also some secret principles seems a bit digged out from a H.G.Wells' book ...and that's funny too.  I think (too) is nonsence device cause too low power is involved and there are too noise/false sources, too less directive "beam" etc and with that kind of S/N ratios is almost impossible make something "working" or "useful" , but just a semi-random beep generator. Kind regards, Max
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#62
07-11-2007, 06:47 PM
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Keep going
Hi to all and you Robert, I was busy hard, of course read all posts always, but have no nerve to consume for taking issue with somebody for nothing. it's not only me, but also so many of people all around the world are interesting to LRL affair. why? cos conventional detectors are highly limited and defective. mostly (nearly in all treasure finding cases) we seriously need toa good LRL. I accept all of these devices have limitations and problems, but they do some things are not all useless. I have told before some things seen myself which you never believe.
about FG80 still can't tell a conclusive result it's not useless and as another side is not what the producers claim, at all. of course I have detected one place and made a very carefully scan by Rover C and a complementary software designed by my genius compatriot (who is a member in this forum believes in LRLing strongly and may not satisfy to write his name) for OKM products even OKM guys are ignorant about this software which gives a very clear graph and shows some bad hidden targets at great depths as some people could find big treasury in 9-10 meters depth with its' help. it somehow confirmed target existence there, but I will put the decisive conclusions only when excavate the place and see with my eyes. Robert, I remember well you never believed OKM products, but working with it is much hard and need to observe many punctiliousness as about FG80, but about FG80 I think we still haven't accessed these punctiliousness. All people in world are waiting for a good LRL and we send our best hails and complements to those people like Andreas and Esteban who are seriously working on it. we kiss their hands. keep going good people , it seems other scientists not interested to this case as they regard only to things with billion of customers not thousands of customers. of course I and my professional EE friend are making one good transmitter which works with 40 V and the amplitude never collapses during transmission. it transmits one very stable wave. will see what happens, maybe never works. I will put only conclusive personnaly experienced results. Regards.
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#63
07-11-2007, 09:00 PM
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O.K. I am not sure that can follow your ideas.
What makes you think that radiated energy from TX will deflect from ...let's say burried coin in the ground??? Even if deflect, what makes you sure that you will receive it from long distance, also what makes you think that you'll be awared about received signal and its origin?? I am trying to say that whole principle here is wrong! Not gonna work! Never worked and it never will work.....ever never! Trust me on that! O.K. you can detect coin with this method from ...let's say few mm..and nothing more! Whole idea is nonsence! Forget that! Wasted time! If you still want to try....who's stoping you? Me? Of course not! Good luck wasting your time!
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#64
07-11-2007, 10:25 PM
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My opinion about ANDREAS!
Hello,
I don't know ANDREAS personally,but i listen from a good friend that he is very serious person and that he try alot and he do good experiments about metal detecting!!! So,i propose you to listen him and his ideas!!! I wish to have ANDREAS friend of mine,then i could learn alot I believe that little persons in the world do experiments like ADREAS!!! This is my opinion!!!(robert don't take angry....cooooolllll....  ..) With my regards to all the members of the Forum: Christos-Greece ----------------------------------------------------
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#65
07-11-2007, 10:58 PM
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 So far none of the LRL proponents have managed to come up with even the minutest scrap of technical evidence in support of their claims. Surely there must be a simple experiment that proves the viability of the technology, if it's for real. Unfortunately all we ever see are dubious photographs of treasure supposedly discovered with an LRL. This is not objective evidence. Sorry guys - but you'll need to do better than this.
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#66
07-12-2007, 09:10 AM
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yes
"..robert don't take angry....cooooolllll.."
Cool! Why should I "take angry"??? You are mostly right! I agree with you. Andreas could be very good man, why not? I already know Esteban is good man! Although weird a bit... Also i do respect their effort too! Trust me! What i DO NOT LIKE and aprove here are nonsenced claims, made by anybody not only Esteban and Andreas! Problem started when they acused me that i am papanic, which i am NOT! My good old friend Ivconic send me damn schematic via e-mail. I took a "short" look on it and reply to Ivconic that i think it is nonsence (if we talking about LRL). That is all! I never intended to post it anywhere, simply i am not interested. Later Papanic e-mailed me so i discovered that he is my old acquaintance! Man i do meet occassionaly, RF expert also. He is claiming that schematic is his own, although a bit changed...few components...So? Think; i do know papanic - i dont know andreas! Who is "closer" to me? To whom i should beleive here? That is all! I still respect and aprove good will,efforts....but i will fight against funny claims about detecting coin on....xxx meters and simillar, which is not possible and WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE EVER!!! regards!
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#67
07-12-2007, 12:43 PM
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of course I respect experimenters. Esteban and Andreas and many others here are folks that experiment on LRL and that's ok, I have no problem with that , it's their time, they can do whatever they want...of their time. Absolutely ok. I consider everyone here as my friend, even without a PhD or diploma or whatever. Problems are claims of LRL manifacturers. Some things are not scientific or are real scientific falses they made just to sell stuff to entusiast THs that have poor knowledge of electronics and science in general... that's the point. "we kiss their hands" ehm well I'm not Tony Soprano... I don't kiss someone hands (with few exceptions) and kissing hands is often a kind of mafia' rule I don't want to follow and expecially if the hands are of some exotic manifacturer of fake devices... I'll consider all folks here TH entusiasts first of all...and just no offended by their researches, experiments, schematics...never. But claims must be enforced by proofs...and, as I Know, no one won the famous LRL Challenge here till now. If that LRLs really work WHY NOT someone would partecipate, win and got the jackpot ??? Why there aren't patents ? Why you must spend thousand of dollars to test by yourself just if one of these is a working device or just a piece of crappy electronics ? Why opening the case of some you could find just some PVC pipe, brass...not thousand dollars of components ...? Why big manifacturer of metal detectors (Whites, Tesoro, Garrett, Minelab, etc) , that have state of the art equippment and technicians, don't want enter this market of LRL ? Are they worried about legal actions from consumers ? Are they scared of losing their fame and good name? I can continue for long... POINT IS: I think one could also buy an LRL from Brazil or any other country if he want, but first of all one should ask himself (and to others) all those questions before dealing with such an expense, without any warranty of what bought really do what's supposed to. Just my point of view Best regards, Max
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#68
07-12-2007, 09:34 PM
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Vintage
Clondike Klad,
I thought it was more? I had over 1000 tubes in the past. Friends took them all!? But i found those. Most of them are used, 90% are in very good shape. Those marked as "brand new" are mostly very old, in original package...some of them dated from 193x...! Very interesting is one with socket, from Wermacht, war tube! Dont have idea of its purpose? It seems that it is made with socket to easy pull out if needed (in hurry) sort of "key" tube!? Also there is brand new and very small - micro tube, i guess mostly used for car radios...at the time. The rest you can see yourself, no need for comments. Many of them doesnt have any label, i guess wiped out in time. Some of them: 2E22,CF3,AK1,TACH1,UY1N,UM11,UF9,1T6,EBF2,AZ1,SC40 2,6C5,EM4,Z1, UM4,6H6,EK2,EL2,UCH11,3A4,IL4,IR5,DL93,IS5,PL36,OD 3,ECH21,PL500A, PCL84,EZ80,ECH83,PCL82,PY88,PC900,EF89,ECH81,PCH20 0,ECC40,ECF83, ECH81,ECC83,PCF80,EBF89,PCF200,UCH81,PCF201,E180F, EAA91,EL41.... Also i have SW Radio CW 109/GRC 9 (ANGRC), brand new,never used!!! I saw simillar in american war movies, usually attached on jeep... It is with tubes, 2-12 MHz, 15 watts . Require special voltage generator,also huge box but i dont have it now. Think i can obtain it. This radio is from military reserves, was in some abandoned storehouse so long that became obsolete, never used, new and shiny!!! Wow! Vintage for sure, good specimen for some collector! I am ready to exchange all those for one metal detector, not expensive, modest, analogue.....let's say some 1266 or simillar, maybe some other Fisher or White's, maybe other....I dont mind as long as it can be useablle....Problem would be shiping out of Serbia....Since weight it may cost a lot...Best way should be to meet here...if close.. Damn! Still have same problem! Serbia is not member of EU and all costs are much higher than it should be! Regards!
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#72
07-13-2007, 09:39 AM
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what a collection! There are really ancient tubes ! German ones I think could came from tactic-sensitive-machines ...I'm not sure cause I never saw any of these but the fast-socket shape you described seems could fit with the idea of rapidly making unuseful a tactic device (unplugging the tube...) or from plane operated equippment, where the on-board technician could change them to overcome during-flying failures of circuits. If it is so...maybe they could reach a good collector' value. If you can't sell to collectors here maybe you could using ebay, really easy. Best regards, Max
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#73
07-13-2007, 01:24 PM
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Hi Max, I agree with some of your comments and respect to you and your knowledge.
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BUT:. Quote:
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these make conditions different for test to get a constant pattern. but about state of the art; Minelab yes, Lorenze and DTI Genesis yes, Tesoro so-so(god bless the makers), but Whites and Garret oooofff , what a shame on manufacturers; full time-wasting junk toys, of course workable for coin shooting at surface in beaches.(regardless of many false signals for any mineral concentration). Max pardon me for this opposition, but all are based on personally or others experiences and observations.
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#74
07-13-2007, 06:10 PM
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that's fine. Your opinions and I respect. "Or can interpret it as a modestly sincerity towards them. huuummm? "No, the mafia' rule I mean that some secrecy behaviour (cospiracy of silence)all around that world of LRL seems (at least) suspect. I've explained I respect other points of view, ideas, designs, theories , experiments but we must rely on facts when we are talking about selling stuff to customers... you know. Also OKM seems have too much claims to be considered a totally safe manifacturer of TH devices... as I remember you had direct experience with OKM, so first hand impressions. I mean that customer need to know what's going to buy (expecially if price is of many thousand dollars) and should have a full set of rights first of all (but not only) INFORMATION. I mean you don't have to dismantle your OKM to know that's a fluxgate inside...I don't like some manifacturers behaviour , as signaled in this forum too, to take the money and then leaving the customer in troubles... FULL INFORMATIONS MUST BE PROVIDED BEFORE BUY About Whites and Garrett , well, some models are like you described, I agree. Toys... or the like. But others are good machines too and you can do good searches using them. Of course also these aren't like Minelab's! Anyway, even if they are toys or just abit above toys they works ! I mean they all could detect e.g. a coin at 1inch in air! Some LRL are proof can't do even this... Best regards, Max
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#75
07-13-2007, 08:53 PM
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Max,You're right again and tell exact the same what I say always and am grieved for; defective manual or information, exaggeration and other things just to make much more money.
But when one detector works and is good help, regardless of cost of electronic components, it worthies. like OKM products, admittedly are not real GPRs and are only EM determiner, but do their jobs as the best on condition that you know all details and points that the producer never give a hint on them or perhaps are ignorant of those hints!!!!! why do so?? A: cos to show them as a very simple and fantastic device.( exaggeration) this is also in Whites, Garret, or any other producer; unrealistic claims. I've written in this forum before that knew a team were really successful, who found 6 big treasures with Omnitron + PI + Future 2005 mostly at great depths 6 and even 9 meters depth and after that all disappeared, but some guys ridiculed me. whereas never experienced or seen or heard one man has found good thing at great depth by those MD toys, never
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Do i need to repeat constantly here..??? Are you iliterate that much??
Linear Mode
