rangertell examiner field trials

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

That little venture is in the same stage of progress as I stated in numerous posts above. Currently I am waiting for people to send me a PM to come and try it out with their own hands. But nobody responded. I contacted 4 Geotech forum members in my local area, and found that four of them declined to do any testing on the Examiner, even if I came to where they are located so they could conveniently perform tests.

At present. After trying to locate known targets with the Examiner adjusted at the factory settings, and re-adjusted to different settings, I have concluded that I am a person who is biologically impaired, and cannot perform a scientific test on an Examiner even if it is tuned perfectly. Without a person who has "normal biological signals", I cannot make an accurate adjustment of the trimmer cap.

I have no questions other than to ask if anyone wants to try it out in thie Los Angeles area and see if they can find good response with it after making their best adjustments at the controls. If you have suggestions of how you think I should proceed next, I would be interested in hearing them.

Best wishes,
J_P

I would like to offer something constructive here. Could we start with you explaining to me (and anyone else the could help) exactly what you mean by... and how you determined.... you were biologically impaired? What, exactly are normal biological signals? Can you get a standard L-rod to respond to targets in plain sight? I can, and I've found very few who can't get that kind of response. Maybe that's not the response you are talking about... please enlighten me.

There must have been something in the information you received from R-T that is different from the advertising I've seen. I was under the impression the Examiner was STRICTLY a electronic device, thus any and all reactions had nothing to do with the operator or the characteristics of the operator.

Now obviously I've gotten a wrong impression, so I wish you could refer me to the public information that states it WILL NOT work if the operator has certain characteristics or attributes. And, what about members of your immediate family? A son, a daughter or perhaps your wife? Maybe a sister or brother, aunt or uncle. Have they also been determined to be biologically impaired?

Also, I'm really surprised that forum members in your immediate area would not be willing to give it a try. Unfortunate indeed. If I was that close, you can bet I would have tried it.

Thanks for the update....

[osman]

Originally Posted by Theseus

I would like to offer something constructive here. Could we start with you explaining to me (and anyone else the could help) exactly what you mean by... and how you determined.... you were biologically impaired? What, exactly are normal biological signals? Can you get a standard L-rod to respond to targets in plain sight? I can, and I've found very few who can't get that kind of response. Maybe that's not the response you are talking about... please enlighten me.

There must have been something in the information you received from R-T that is different from the advertising I've seen. I was under the impression the Examiner was STRICTLY a electronic device, thus any and all reactions had nothing to do with the operator or the characteristics of the operator.

Now obviously I've gotten a wrong impression, so I wish you could refer me to the public information that states it WILL NOT work if the operator has certain characteristics or attributes. And, what about members of your immediate family? A son, a daughter or perhaps your wife? Maybe a sister or brother, aunt or uncle. Have they also been determined to be biologically impaired?

Also, I'm really surprised that forum members in your immediate area would not be willing to give it a try. Unfortunate indeed. If I was that close, you can bet I would have tried it.

Thanks for the update....

hi Theseus

a long time, it hangs. I tried yesterday, where a very wet much, I received an incorrect signal.
little thing, turned to the left.
was better, now does not find the stone.
What do you suggest?

good work. osman

[osman]

[quote = Theseus; 107.906] Ben burada yapıcı bir şey sunmak istiyorum. Sizinle benim için (ve herkesten yardımcı olabilir) tam olarak ne demek istediğinizi açıklayan başlayabileceğini ... ve nasıl belirlenir .... were you biyolojik engelli? Ne, tam olarak normal biyolojik sinyaller? Standart bir L alabilir miyim-hedefler düz görme yanıt için çubuk? I can, ve çok az olan tepkisi bu tür can't get bulduk. Belki de bahsediyorsun sen cevap değil ... Beni aydınlatmak edebilirsiniz.

Orada RT o I've seen reklam farklıdır alınan bilgi bir şey olmalıdır. Ben Examiner KESİNLİKLE bir elektronik cihaz, böylece her türlü reaksiyonlar operatörü veya operatörün özellikleri ile ilgisi vardı izlenim altındaydı.

Şimdi açıkça ben de size genel bilgiler eğer operatör bazı özellikleri veya özniteliklerine devletlerin o değil iş OLACAKTIR beni bakın isterdim yanlış bir izlenim gotten ettik. Ve sizin yakın aile üyeleri ne olacak? Bir oğlu, bir kızı ya da belki senin karın? Belki bir kız veya erkek kardeşi, halası veya amcası. Onlar da belirlenmiştir biyolojik engelli mi?

Ayrıca, ben gerçekten sizin yakın bölgede forum üyeleri bunu denemeye istekli olmayacağını şaşırttı. Gerçekten Unfortunate. Eğer bu yakın olduğunu, bunu denedim olurdu bahse girebilirsiniz.

Güncelleme için teşekkürler ....[/ quote]

[quote = osman; 107.908]hi Theseus

uzun bir süre, duruyor. Dün, burada çok fazla ıslak, ben yanlış bir sinyal aldı çalıştı.
küçük şey, sola döndü.
daha iyi, şimdi taş bulamaz oldu.
Ne tavsiye edersiniz?

iyi iş. osman[/ quote]


merhaba resim eklemek değil thesus.
bahsediyorum.lütfen yardımdan goldbeam

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Theseus

I would like to offer something constructive here. Could we start with you explaining to me (and anyone else the could help) exactly what you mean by... and how you determined.... you were biologically impaired? What, exactly are normal biological signals? Can you get a standard L-rod to respond to targets in plain sight? I can, and I've found very few who can't get that kind of response. Maybe that's not the response you are talking about... please enlighten me.

How I determined I am biologically impaired?
Well, that's a long story, starting back in the days when I worked with high voltage, and was accidentally electrohuted due to a careless person who did not connect the grounding straps before we went in to service the power equipment. Luckily, I survived, but I had nerve damage to my right arm, which was first to touch the high voltage conductor. My right arm is working ok now, but the nerves in that arm are not the same as they were before this accident. It is only my speculated opinion that there is some biological impairment due to the nerve damage that occurred in the right arm. The doctor only diagnosed nerve damage, not biological impairment. If there is a licensed biologist or medical doctor in Geotech, then maybe they could contribute some insight into whether this injury could constitute "biological impairment".

The second way I can explain how I concluded I am biologically impared, came from an observation I made when an aquaintance tried the examiner to see if it would point to a sample placed where he could see it. After over an hour of trying it out, we discovered that when he set the sensitivity to a certain setting, then he observed it pointing toward the treasure nearly every time when he walked past it, but when I tried it at the exact same setting, it seldom pointed toward the target. The difference I noted are historical facts, but the method was subjective. So There is no scientific basis to prove anything based on what we observed, unless a large amount of other people were also to perform the same routine as we did to provide a meaningful statistical basis.

In answer to your question, I have never gotten any response whatsoever from standard L-rod, other than a coat hanger wire L-rod tends to swing toward the direction of a magnet that is held in close proximity.

Finally, there are countless hours of making adjustments and more adjustments, without seeing any notable changes in performance when I tried to locate a known target. Of course, the nerve damage to my right arm, and observing a significant difference in response between me and another preson who has no nerve damage does not prove I am biologically impaired. But it is the conclusion I arrived at for the purposes of testsing. So I am relying on others to come try it and see if it works, because I can't be able to insure valid tests on my own. This also works out well because I really need to be holding a camera to show exactly what is seen during the tests. I am probably more proficient than most people operating a camera, and I know what the forum members want to see in a video.

Originally Posted by Theseus

Also, I'm really surprised that forum members in your immediate area would not be willing to give it a try. Unfortunate indeed. If I was that close, you can bet I would have tried it.

I am surprised too.
I would have thought everyone would be anxious to get a shot at it without needing to send in their cash first. But all declined. Hopefully, g-sani will keep his Examiner to let other Greek treasure hunters try it out regardless of what kind of response he finds. (Maybe nobody in Greece besides Geo will want to try it out, same as happened here)

Originally Posted by Theseus

There must have been something in the information you received from R-T that is different from the advertising I've seen. I was under the impression the Examiner was STRICTLY a electronic device, thus any and all reactions had nothing to do with the operator or the characteristics of the operator.
Now obviously I've gotten a wrong impression, so I wish you could refer me to the public information that states it WILL NOT work if the operator has certain characteristics or attributes. And, what about members of your immediate family? A son, a daughter or perhaps your wife? Maybe a sister or brother, aunt or uncle. Have they also been determined to be biologically impaired?

None of my relatives touched a high voltage conductor that caused nerve damage in their right arm, nor did I have occasion to send them to a doctor to determine whether there is nerve damage to thier right arm or whether they are biologically impaired.

You are mistaken. All of what is in the instruction manual is posted for all the public to see except for some proprietary key code sequences.

The Examiner is not a strictly electronic device. According to what is published, it is an electronic device that operates in conjuction with electromagnatic signals originating at the target, electromagnetic signals originating at the calculator, and biological signals originating from the body of the user. Furthermore, the user must be standing on the ground (earth ground) in order to complete the circuit that allows detection of a target. Of course you know this if you read the public literature. Here are some public references that you can read to this effect, as well as some little known facts from a "Geotech expert" on the Rangertell Examiner:

Examiner facts posted by the Rangertell factory:
"Your body is a major component in the use of these instruments. It literally becomes part of the receiving component due to that fact that your body has an electrical charge which in turn emits an electromagnetic field or flux around it. The polarities around the body were determined by R-T using an Examiner tuned to the body frequency (between 6 and 7Hz)..."
http://www.rangertell.com/fieldfx.htm

"The left side of the body and thus hand is much weaker electromagnetically than the right. You can also prove this by holding the electrodes of a multimeter and measuring the millivolts holding the electrodes one way then the other.There is a marked difference as you have reversed the polarities and can now see the flow of electricity in millivolts through both sides of the body".
http://www.rangertell.com/booster.htm

"the Examiner makes use of resonance techniques and longitudinal wave coupling to boost the energy to a level necessary for long range detection. The human component is also an essential part of the design". http://www.rangertell.com/frequently...uestions-a.htm

"...Out of about 1000 units sold very few users have returned it and received a refund due to anything but mechanical reasons. Health and difficult left-handedness have been the only factors". http://www.rangertell.com/faq.html

Geotech forum member contribution to a Rangertell website:
"...The human component is also an essential part of the design. Just as a tuning fork..."
http://www.rangertell.com/to_the_skeptic.htm

Advanced Rangertell facts from Mike(Mont):
...you want to be several feet away from the target. If you are too close, your energy field will interact with the target's field and you won't feel it...
...Typically the beginner is going to have mental interference. This might be more than you can overcome, so you are going to have to work hard at eliminating negative thoughts and doubts. If you can get the meditation down, your mind will be still and it won't be "your own worst enemy".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=144

Advanced Rangetell facts from Dr. hung:
"This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
http://geotech1.com/forums/showthrea...1226#post41226

"The Examiner is clearly a radionic device".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=64567

The final clue is where Dr. hung accidentally tells us his secret discovery of a substance produced by gold DNA:
This anti-oxidation substance that coats gold metal is important to those who theorize the new calculator key codes Dr. hung uses are actually detecting the genetic makeup of this DNA-produced substance, not the gold metal that is hidden beneath the coating.
"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'"
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058

With your constructive motive in mind, how do you think I should proceed?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

How I determined I am biologically impaired?
Well, that's a long story, starting back in the days when I worked with high voltage, and was accidentally electrohuted due to a careless person who did not connect the grounding straps before we went in to service the power equipment. Luckily, I survived, but I had nerve damage to my right arm, which was first to touch the high voltage conductor. My right arm is working ok now, but the nerves in that arm are not the same as they were before this accident. It is only my speculated opinion that there is some biological impairment due to the nerve damage that occurred in the right arm. The doctor only diagnosed nerve damage, not biological impairment. If there is a licensed biologist or medical doctor in Geotech, then maybe they could contribute some insight into whether this injury could constitute "biological impairment".

The second way I can explain how I concluded I am biologically impared, came from an observation I made when an aquaintance tried the examiner to see if it would point to a sample placed where he could see it. After over an hour of trying it out, we discovered that when he set the sensitivity to a certain setting, then he observed it pointing toward the treasure nearly every time when he walked past it, but when I tried it at the exact same setting, it seldom pointed toward the target. The difference I noted are historical facts, but the method was subjective. So There is no scientific basis to prove anything based on what we observed, unless a large amount of other people were also to perform the same routine as we did to provide a meaningful statistical basis.

In answer to your question, I have never gotten any response whatsoever from standard L-rod, other than a coat hanger wire L-rod tends to swing toward the direction of a magnet that is held in close proximity.

Finally, there are countless hours of making adjustments and more adjustments, without seeing any notable changes in performance when I tried to locate a known target. Of course, the nerve damage to my right arm, and observing a significant difference in response between me and another preson who has no nerve damage does not prove I am biologically impaired. But it is the conclusion I arrived at for the purposes of testsing. So I am relying on others to come try it and see if it works, because I can't be able to insure valid tests on my own. This also works out well because I really need to be holding a camera to show exactly what is seen during the tests. I am probably more proficient than most people operating a camera, and I know what the forum members want to see in a video.

I am surprised too.
I would have thought everyone would be anxious to get a shot at it without needing to send in their cash first. But all declined. Hopefully, g-sani will keep his Examiner to let other Greek treasure hunters try it out regardless of what kind of response he finds. (Maybe nobody in Greece besides Geo will want to try it out, same as happened here)
None of my relatives touched a high voltage conductor that caused nerve damage in their right arm, nor did I have occasion to send them to a doctor to determine whether there is nerve damage to thier right arm or whether they are biologically impaired.

You are mistaken. All of what is in the instruction manual is posted for all the public to see except for some proprietary key code sequences.

The Examiner is not a strictly electronic device. According to what is published, it is an electronic device that operates in conjuction with electromagnatic signals originating at the target, electromagnetic signals originating at the calculator, and biological signals originating from the body of the user. Furthermore, the user must be standing on the ground (earth ground) in order to complete the circuit that allows detection of a target. Of course you know this if you read the public literature. Here are some public references that you can read to this effect, as well as some little known facts from a "Geotech expert" on the Rangertell Examiner:

Examiner facts posted by the Rangertell factory:
"Your body is a major component in the use of these instruments. It literally becomes part of the receiving component due to that fact that your body has an electrical charge which in turn emits an electromagnetic field or flux around it. The polarities around the body were determined by R-T using an Examiner tuned to the body frequency (between 6 and 7Hz)..."
http://www.rangertell.com/fieldfx.htm

"The left side of the body and thus hand is much weaker electromagnetically than the right. You can also prove this by holding the electrodes of a multimeter and measuring the millivolts holding the electrodes one way then the other.There is a marked difference as you have reversed the polarities and can now see the flow of electricity in millivolts through both sides of the body".
http://www.rangertell.com/booster.htm

"the Examiner makes use of resonance techniques and longitudinal wave coupling to boost the energy to a level necessary for long range detection. The human component is also an essential part of the design". http://www.rangertell.com/frequently...uestions-a.htm

"...Out of about 1000 units sold very few users have returned it and received a refund due to anything but mechanical reasons. Health and difficult left-handedness have been the only factors". http://www.rangertell.com/faq.html

Geotech forum member contribution to a Rangertell website:
"...The human component is also an essential part of the design. Just as a tuning fork..."
http://www.rangertell.com/to_the_skeptic.htm

Advanced Rangertell facts from Mike(Mont):
...you want to be several feet away from the target. If you are too close, your energy field will interact with the target's field and you won't feel it...
...Typically the beginner is going to have mental interference. This might be more than you can overcome, so you are going to have to work hard at eliminating negative thoughts and doubts. If you can get the meditation down, your mind will be still and it won't be "your own worst enemy".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showp...&postcount=144

Advanced Rangetell facts from Dr. hung:
"This is the principle in which the Rangertell Examiner works. Resonance to the elements subatomic levels when a carrier signal line is shot and returned".
http://geotech1.com/forums/showthrea...1226#post41226

"The Examiner is clearly a radionic device".
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=64567

The final clue is where Dr. hung accidentally tells us his secret discovery of a substance produced by gold DNA:
This anti-oxidation substance that coats gold metal is important to those who theorize the new calculator key codes Dr. hung uses are actually detecting the genetic makeup of this DNA-produced substance, not the gold metal that is hidden beneath the coating.
"Gold is the most powerful 'self defensive' metal when it comes to avoid any harm to its structure, such as rust, oxidation, etc. Its DNA produces a substance which coats the metal to fight against those 'threats'"
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?p=84058

With your constructive motive in mind, how do you think I should proceed?

Best wishes,
J_P

Thanks for all that.... it's late and I been busy with other projects all evening. Let me cogitate on what you said; and I'll try to get back to you with something positive.

Later....

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by g-sani

The only thing I can say is that whenever gave us a target we found it and proved right using our rods to follow the signal to the target.

This is the point we are unable agree on. You cannot "prove" that a target was found by using rods, particularly since there is no such thing as a signal line.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

"the Examiner makes use of resonance techniques and longitudinal wave coupling to boost the energy to a level necessary for long range detection. The human component is also an essential part of the design". http://www.rangertell.com/frequently...uestions-a.htm

Geotech forum member contribution to a Rangertell website:
"...The human component is also an essential part of the design. Just as a tuning fork..."
http://www.rangertell.com/to_the_skeptic.htm

I see they are still quoting from my spoof article on the RT Scaminer!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

I see they are still quoting from my spoof article on the RT Scaminer!

Actually, I was not aware you were so knowledgeable in the principle of operation for this circuit until I discovered you wrote that detailed description. Of course, you realise the new model has a different circuit, but it interacts with the same forces of magnetism and frequency as the older circuits.

What is interesting is I don't see you make any reference to the carrier signal line being shot and returned. Maybe this principle only applies to the diodes model and is not actually put into practice in the current model. I suspect you have held back a couple of key technical secrets so the average experimenter would not be able to produce a working model, which is a wise thing to do. But even if all the technical details were given, the circuit would not work unless the user was able to enter the proprietary calculator key sequences.

I am thinking the codes to detect the substance that gold DNA produces are probably the most valuable of all the codes. If you think about it, every person who hoarded gold must have had some of this substance rub off the gold surface on their hands and become embedded in the ground where they were digging to bury their treasure. And even non-buried gold that is hidden from sight will have telltale traces of this substance everywhere the gold touched. Can you imagine the implications?

At present, I am re-reading Mike(Mont)'s posts to refresh my understanding of the basics of meditation. The "scarecrow position" could be tiring and cause undue strain to the arm muscles after awhile, but his other suggestions seem less rigourous.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

J_Player,

Well, I've had a chance to think some about helping you with how to proceed, with the Examiner testing.

First, I'm very sorry to hear about your nerve damage from a previous accident. Of course if you cannot get a typical dowsing response from a bent L-shaped wire, over a target in plain sight, then I would not expect you to get a typical response from an Examiner either. In all my years of testing and observing various dowsers, I've not run across a single individual who, after being shown what the typical response should look like over a garden hose or a known underground pipe, or a coin thrown on the ground; could not themselves get a similar or like response.

Of course, if the nerve connections between the brain and the hand (or arm) are damaged, then the ideomotor response could fire in the brain, but be blocked from getting to the hand.

I have but one single suggestion for you to try. Realizing that "apparently" using the device in your left hand, there will be a reduction "supposedly" in the the response; is it possible for you to try it several times in your left hand, and just see what you might get. Perhaps over the course of several tries you might be surprised at what you could train your left hand to do.

Now, to get down to some "brass tacks", so to speak. I have decided there is probably nothing that I can offer you in the way of constructive suggestions for how to proceed from this point. And, here is why I can't offer anything:

From your recent posting and several others in the past, concerning the RT Examiner; YOU seem to be "buying into and entertaining all of the RT marketing BS as IF it were True and Valid". Whether this is how you truly think or not, I cannot tell for sure. I can't believe you do, in your heart, but I can't tell at this point.

I, on the other hand, will not and cannot buy into a single iota of the RT marketing BS concerning the operation of the Examiner, the stated theory of operation, or any of the other nonsense perpetrated simply to snow the gullible and technically-challenged. I'm sorry, but I can't do that. Neither could I "make-out" like I believe it, just so it would appear that I am trying to give the device every opportunity for it to work and do what it is supposed to be able to do.

I know how the device operates. It is nothing more than a plastic box mounted atop a swivel handle, which responds to simple ideomotor responses from the operator. And, certainly, it WILL operate that way whether you hold it in your right hand or your left hand, it does not make a difference. The calculator and the "secret" codes to be plugged into it have not a single input or influence as to how the device will respond. There are NO signal lines traveling out to a target and back to the device or to the operator.

Since these are my opinions and understanding, I really cannot offer you anything constructive, especially in light of the "apparent" understanding and approach you are taking to the device. If you want to believe that a box full of do-nothing components with an Asian calculator stuck to it is somehow doing something constructive in terms of enhancing your own biological dowsing response, that is YOUR business. Frankly, I'm shocked that a man of your "seeming" intelligence would present yourself as harboring this kind of belief or understanding about such an obvious ruse. I still suspect it is an "act", but I can't prove it... I can only suspect it, since I never thought you qualified as a "gullible or technically-challenged".

I will consider the once bally-whoed testing of the Examiner as permanently closed, and will promise to quit "bugging" you about getting on with it. I was really looking forward to some meaningful conclusions to come out of your testing, as I'm sure many others were.... sorry it has to be shelved this way.

I suppose you will be sending it back to RT, in the not too distant future.

[Fred]

Thanks to JP, what is now clear to me is that RangerTell adverts are lies, that it is NOT simple and straightforward to use their device, and that NOT everyone can use it.

So i will NOT buy this LRL.
Thanks JP for helping us making our choice.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Theseus

J_Player,

Well, I've had a chance to think some about helping you with how to proceed, with the Examiner testing.

First, I'm very sorry to hear about your nerve damage from a previous accident. Of course if you cannot get a typical dowsing response from a bent L-shaped wire, over a target in plain sight, then I would not expect you to get a typical response from an Examiner either. In all my years of testing and observing various dowsers, I've not run across a single individual who, after being shown what the typical response should look like over a garden hose or a known underground pipe, or a coin thrown on the ground; could not themselves get a similar or like response.

Of course, if the nerve connections between the brain and the hand (or arm) are damaged, then the ideomotor response could fire in the brain, but be blocked from getting to the hand.

I have but one single suggestion for you to try. Realizing that "apparently" using the device in your left hand, there will be a reduction "supposedly" in the the response; is it possible for you to try it several times in your left hand, and just see what you might get. Perhaps over the course of several tries you might be surprised at what you could train your left hand to do.

Now, to get down to some "brass tacks", so to speak. I have decided there is probably nothing that I can offer you in the way of constructive suggestions for how to proceed from this point. And, here is why I can't offer anything:

From your recent posting and several others in the past, concerning the RT Examiner; YOU seem to be "buying into and entertaining all of the RT marketing BS as IF it were True and Valid". Whether this is how you truly think or not, I cannot tell for sure. I can't believe you do, in your heart, but I can't tell at this point.

I, on the other hand, will not and cannot buy into a single iota of the RT marketing BS concerning the operation of the Examiner, the stated theory of operation, or any of the other nonsense perpetrated simply to snow the gullible and technically-challenged. I'm sorry, but I can't do that. Neither could I "make-out" like I believe it, just so it would appear that I am trying to give the device every opportunity for it to work and do what it is supposed to be able to do.

I know how the device operates. It is nothing more than a plastic box mounted atop a swivel handle, which responds to simple ideomotor responses from the operator. And, certainly, it WILL operate that way whether you hold it in your right hand or your left hand, it does not make a difference. The calculator and the "secret" codes to be plugged into it have not a single input or influence as to how the device will respond. There are NO signal lines traveling out to a target and back to the device or to the operator.

Since these are my opinions and understanding, I really cannot offer you anything constructive, especially in light of the "apparent" understanding and approach you are taking to the device. If you want to believe that a box full of do-nothing components with an Asian calculator stuck to it is somehow doing something constructive in terms of enhancing your own biological dowsing response, that is YOUR business. Frankly, I'm shocked that a man of your "seeming" intelligence would present yourself as harboring this kind of belief or understanding about such an obvious ruse. I still suspect it is an "act", but I can't prove it... I can only suspect it, since I never thought you qualified as a "gullible or technically-challenged".

I will consider the once bally-whoed testing of the Examiner as permanently closed, and will promise to quit "bugging" you about getting on with it. I was really looking forward to some meaningful conclusions to come out of your testing, as I'm sure many others were.... sorry it has to be shelved this way.

I suppose you will be sending it back to RT, in the not too distant future.

Hi Theseus,
Apparently you are forming conclusions based on an impoverished view of the facts around you.

First, the nerve damage was diagnosed in my lower right arm. The damaged nerves have mostly healed, but they are not the same as nerves that never needed to heal. I know this because there still remains some loss of feeling in that arm. But this is not the issue with making a valid test with the Examiner. If you had read their literature, you would have seen the manufacturer states the right arm has a different millivolt signal than the left arm, and for this reason, left-handed people cannot expect good results when using the examiner. In my case, I did happen to check the millivolt signal in both hands, and I found they were nearly the same at both sides within 5% when measuring AC or DC millivolts. This, in combination with the observed response became a strong indicator to me, especially after seeing someone else find much better response. But I did try the Examiner with my left hand on quite a number of ocasions. I did not notice any substantial difference in response from the right or left hand.

As far as the Rangertell marketing claims, of course I take them seriously. These are what I am interested in testing. If I were to start out before making a test and state that I already know all of the claims are false, and that there is absolutely nothing happening in the electronics, then any testing would be predjudiced. Further there would not be a purpose to conduct a test if I had already concluded all the tests would fail. However, my puprpose is not to predjudice a test. I am interested in making observations to see if the claims are true or not. In order to do so, I must first read what the claims are then find a way to conduct a test that will give reasonable evidence that any particular claim is true or not. It simply cannot be done if the conclusion is arrived at before a test is performed.

It does not matter what opinion I may have about the performance of the Examiner, of Esteban's LRLs, of a White's PI detector, or a NASA satellite. My opinion means nothing in a test routine unless I use it to decide what the performance is before completing a test. In that cases it would mean the test was tainted by a predjudiced person influencing the results by interjecting conclusions tainted with his own bias rather than observations.

As an example, the Examiner literature does not make claims about ideamotor, so there is no basis to test that non-claim. But they did make a claim about a charge and a frequency passing from the user to the Examiner. This is something I can test on a subject who is holding the Examiner in his right hand to see if it is true or not. I can also test to see if the claim that the millivolt signal passing from the right hand is stronger than the left hand, as well as making observations of field trials. And I can perform tests to observe if any "signal lines" are established in the air between a target and the antenna, which diminish when the claimed signal source removed from the Examiner.

Apparently you don't consider it necessary to read the claims before concluding what claims are true or false. This is your prerogative. Your purpose is apparenly not to find a way to test an Examiner, but to form conclusions without even bothering to read what the claims are you conclude are wrong. It is not surprising to me that you have no constructive suggestions of how you think I should proceed.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Theseus,
Apparently you are forming conclusions based on an impoverished view of the facts around you.

However, you want to verbalize my opinion is certainly your option.

If testing a device requires that I completely throw out ALL of what I have experienced, researched and learned over a great many years; AS WELL AS completely discounting my rational education in science, physics and electronics - then, unlike you; I CANNOT do that and would not make a good subject to test the Examiner. You make it sound like the only fair way to conduct the test would be with the intelligence quotient of a new-born babe who had just exited the womb.

Now probably between YOUR line of thinking and MY line of thinking there is some neutral ground where a fair test could be formulated and conducted. In locating that neutral ground, I guess I would like to see how the investigators at Sandia Labs would approach the testing of the Examiner.

They already have experience in testing things of this variety and I have the distinct feeling their approach would be more like mine than yours.

What would be nice.... would be to get the testing of the device OFF dead center. I'm not sure with the "apparent" thought processes and "blocks" you have introduced, that will ever be possible. Unfortunate... indeed.

[WesP]

J_P,
I live in Fullerton and I would like to volunteer my services to assist int the testing of the RangerTell Examiner. Please email me with info on when and where we can set up a test. I will bring my video camera to record the testing. I can assure everyone that any testing I am involved with will done in a non biases and scientific manner.

Wes Pearson
rwpilot@roadrunner.com

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by WesP

J_P,
I live in Fullerton and I would like to volunteer my services to assist int the testing of the RangerTell Examiner. Please email me with info on when and where we can set up a test. I will bring my video camera to record the testing. I can assure everyone that any testing I am involved with will done in a non biases and scientific manner.

Wes Pearson
rwpilot@roadrunner.com

Go for it, Wes. And, thanks for coming forward.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by WesP

I live in Fullerton and I would like to volunteer my services to assist int the testing of the RangerTell Examiner.

Too late, J_Ps Examiner expired shelf-life.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Now probably between YOUR line of thinking and MY line of thinking there is some neutral ground where a fair test could be formulated and conducted. In locating that neutral ground, I guess I would like to see how the investigators at Sandia Labs would approach the testing of the Examiner.

The only way to test the RT Scaminer is in a scientifically controlled double-blind test. This procedure is designed to eliminate any prejudice by the person(s) performing the tests. In this way, even the most biased person can be assured of a correct result.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The only way to test the RT Scaminer is in a scientifically controlled double-blind test. This procedure is designed to eliminate any prejudice by the person(s) performing the tests. In this way, even the most biased person can be assured of a correct result.

I would agree completely, and that is exactly how I would've recommended proceeding. However, all the other stuff that it seemed J_P was trying to include, or allow for... I personally would not know what to tell him.... other than just what you said.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The only way to test the RT Scaminer is in a scientifically controlled double-blind test. This procedure is designed to eliminate any prejudice by the person(s) performing the tests. In this way, even the most biased person can be assured of a correct result.

Excellent suggestion.
Can you tell me the specific protocol to use in a field test with the Examiner, and what attribute exactly is your test protocol designed to test?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Should i hold on with my money ?

[g-sani]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

This is the point we are unable agree on. You cannot "prove" that a target was found by using rods, particularly since there is no such thing as a signal line.

May be that 'signal line' is not the corect name given and may be plain 'line' is better but I use it as well for comunicating purposes.
I can pick something up from a distance using the freq.gen. and the rods and also i can feel the finds whith my fingers when I hold them.
Dear Qiaozhi, you suggest that this is an illusion?

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by g-sani

May be that 'signal line' is not the corect name given and may be plain 'line' is better but I use it as well for comunicating purposes.
I can pick something up from a distance using the freq.gen. and the rods and also i can feel the finds whith my fingers when I hold them.
Dear Qiaozhi, you suggest that this is an illusion?

Again, you are talking about rods (i.e. dowsing).
Yes - the signal line is an illusion.

[g-sani]

Thats a nice illusion for one to experience then.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Excellent suggestion.
Can you tell me the specific protocol to use in a field test with the Examiner, and what attribute exactly is your test protocol designed to test?

Best wishes,
J_P

May I suggest that you ask the man himself - James Randi ->
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ask all those who wish to claim the prize based upon their dowsing skills to first try a double-blind test of their abilities. We at the JREF can advise you how to design such a test protocol. You will find, I assure you, that the description above of the ideomotor effect will be proven valid.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above quote was taken from here -> http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/

[Qiaozhi]

If you do not want to contact JR, then you can devise your own test procedure from here -> http://www.skepdic.com/control.html

[hung]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

If you do not want to contact JR, then you can devise your own test procedure from here -> http://www.skepdic.com/control.html

Away for sometime and when I come back I face this...
It's more than clear that one of the reasons this RS forum in Carlland is of really bad quality can be blamed direct to Carl's choice to promote Qiaozhi as a moderator.
He is completely ignorant on this subject and now he comes with the above pathetic post.

The skeptic dictionary which is at best a joke, and Randi, the GREATEST FRAUD all over internet!

Qiaozhi has given already enough evidence he is totally biased against LRL and dowsing subjects, again, through his complete ignorance on those matters.

If serious and minimally competent as moderator, the least expected from his moderating attitude would be an isent one and not biased as he is.
He is doing a terrible job. As dowsing ignorant, we all know of this already.
At least he could let the ones like g-sani express himself. And not try to interfere with his posts. Moderating is not try influencing others posts in favor of a particular belief.

I think he should either quit as moderator and restart his member only status when he is allowed to say all the mambo he is used to or assume another posture as a true moderator.

This is very bad to newbies who happen to land here and see his mentionings in his posts as source of reliable. This is grotesque.

Well, this is my opinion and Carl do what he wants in Ozzy's case... Tough I don't post here often anymore, might this one work to prevent newbies and unadvised people who happen to visit this forum.

Here some thread about Randi. Let people take their conclusions. Sorry for Geotech in the old days... Today is trully Geoskepth...
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,235008.0.html