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#26
05-26-2010, 12:26 AM
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BIONIC
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Hello Not spend 10.000 E in useless BIONIC. If you are from Germany,i have friends there,they test BIONIC and not satisfied,i can give phone nr to you t contact them. About Zahori is diferent,becouse Esteban say it works as LRL,just need some alterations,possible in the antenna,lets see what we can do... 
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#27
05-26-2010, 12:39 AM
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Hello Funfinder and others LRL guys ,
It is better for your cerebellum to begin with " more serious" work on ion chambers , electrostatic ....etc...AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND what you did not discover the world of electricity!!!!! see link for beginning academic work: http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html see all this site full off true electronic INFO .....not mineoro o okm style infos  !!!!HAVE FUN Alexis. 
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#29
05-26-2010, 12:47 AM
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To Alex
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We are rediscovering what others(Alonso&Damasio) have discover many years ago. About MINEORO,i not say more than what i have found already, a few objects with model DC 2008,but i hope to find a treasure,and i will say that this devices realy work,but for now Ã* stay quiet... Thanks for your work opening one MINEORO,the ionic chamber is very interesting... Regards
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#30
05-26-2010, 03:23 AM
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This design above is used to detect ions in the chamber. The FET measures very small currents due to the discharge of ions inside the can. These ions can enter the can from outside if it is open to the air, or they can come from the inside if there is an ionizing radiation that causes the gasses to ionize inside.
The Mineoro Ion chamber is said to be different in that it is claimed to "classify the ions" so they can be determined to be ions from gold. According to the scientific theories of the inventors, their ionic chambers are designed to detect just gold, and nothing else. They also manufacture other ionic chambers to detect other materials. The inventors of the Mineoro ion chamber once explained how it works to identify the presence of gold: Quote:
Of course, at this stage I see people simply trying to measure ions with sensitive FET amplifiers. And I wonder how a treasure hunter with these FET ion sensors will know the difference between ions in the air near a copper coin, a tin can, or a gold ingot. How will they know the ions they are sensing are not caused by gamma radiation from a nearby source, or by a tree that has a static charge? Or maybe a damp spot on the ground has reduced the static charge in the air at a certain location? Wouldn't all the tiny pulses of current through the FET look the same to the amplifier? Wouldn't they all look like the same collections of tiny pulses of current that come each time an air molecule discharges against the electrode, regardless of what caused the discharges?  Best wishes, J_P
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#31
05-26-2010, 08:37 AM
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Puzzling all the new info together we have now will get really interresting or better: exciting!
 I have no doubt the OKM Bionic detects gold from a distance - also these videos can be taken as some kind of indices: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e7WODpaHMY&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/user/Detectio.../2/eMaIyGS36Gw The questions are: What and how much "thick substance" (as example ground or 10cm wall of lead) the ions can go through? How small is the detection angle? An example: if you find a 2cm golden ring at 5m distance, you cand find a 3cm gold medaillon at 10m or a gold bar at 50m. In other words: How many degrees of the 360° get recognised. Can we built a "poor mans" gold ion detector, how many hours work and how much costs in material stuff? Practical testing - with short and long time ago buried gold. @ Morgan Thank you for the info about your german friends who already have such OKM Bionic and your warning about better saving the money! Always better to be careful with LRL claims companies and their resellers offer but this doesn't save us from serious testing and sorting out truth from lies. 1. Do your friends use the Bionic Alpha or the 01? 2. Why they are unsatisified? 3. If the device is so bad, they shure like to sell it for just 1000 Euro, getting at least some money back?! 4. Did they have searched at really good locations? 5. Will they open their Bionic and mail us some pix? 6. If Esteban is right that the "Zahori" alias (any) Electrostatic-Receiver works with some electrosmog filters and the right antenna (perhaps located in some alu-tube for better "pinpointing" and avoiding overloading or erratic signals) should we work in this direction, too? Next thank you about the "PASSIVE RECEIVER" hint. I thought already that it is this you are talking about. So you had the best searching results so far with your "PR BFO PD LRL?" or in other words 'cause sometimes I hate all those shorts: "Passive Receiver Beat Frequency Oscillator Pistol Detector Long Range Locator". What is the "big secret" about that passive receiver? Every receiver is passive, as long it is no transceiver like a walkie-talkie. Please can you post here or pm me a simple circuit so i can make some tests the same like with electrostatic. Hung or who it was wrote that even a little bit modified FM-Radio will work. The question is just: how good and effective.... And what is the "wave principle" behind? That the buried treasure works like an antenna and absorbes the sourrounding radio waves, so your highly sensitive passive receiver will get a weaker signal of the whole wave-mixture around, like it is if some other antenna is near your own antenna? btw. I also found this posting here: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15985 and if already at the first post someone writes that the "Golden King" is crap how I can take such chit-chat for serious? Some people seems to be really wrong informed or unable to make their own good fundamented subjective. Is it really that complicated with electronical devices? Understanding on what working priniciple they're based and testing if they work? Is it so hard for a person who can't see EM waves with his own eyes taking some electronic-device(s) with the own hands and try 'em out? Are we are women who like to discuss for weeks if Britney Spears had sex with his ex-boyfriend or not??? So please let's stay at least in this thread stricly technical ontopic, fair and only concentrated on a real good working electronical device! Thank you all. 
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#32
05-26-2010, 08:58 AM
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Just my opinion...of course
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#33
05-26-2010, 09:06 AM
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__________________
Global capital is ruining your life? You have right to self-defence!
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#34
05-26-2010, 09:16 AM
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PS: check out this site if you think all OKM stuff is crap:
http://kts-electronic.com/index.php?lang=en KTS Electronic also built deep search devices - I visited Mr. Yazdani 15 years ago personally and bought a used Fisher 1266-X from him which still works! I can assure you that he self developes / sells real working hitec detectors and that he's a very skilled and kind engineer!  Look here if you want a very good PI detector with discrimination and 4 different coils for 1999,-Euro: http://kts-electronic.com/content/view/29/79/lang,en/
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#35
05-26-2010, 09:40 AM
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@ WM6
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Dr. Faustus at least had scientific interrest and didn't interrupt everything with silly provocative comments. You've been already completly unable to bring up "technical data" in the Jeohunter thread so please don't interfere and disturb here any longer, too.  Have you already visited www.nuggets.at in Klagenfurt to test the Jeohunter on your own??? For shure not, because you are much too lazy, ignorant, incopetend and incapable to do this! Just making stupid jokes, insulting statements and intersecting technical threads for you is much more fun and easier... If you like nontechnical but emotional discussion please register in some love-forum. Or are you some sort of entertainer, enfant terrible and mr. provocateur/provo-acteur here?
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#36
05-26-2010, 11:16 AM
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The poor mans gold ion locator
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I agree to build the POOR MANS GOLD ION LOCATOR.One LRL project for everybody,no secrets. Hope Esteban can help ??? Or maybe no need
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#37
05-26-2010, 11:22 AM
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LRL
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Even the skeptics can help us with simple Dr,Best ideias ,i think we can build some working and simple LRL,i´m sure this is possible if we all work together in the project THE POOR MANS GOLD ION LOCATOR.
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#38
05-26-2010, 12:25 PM
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Morgan, well said!
 After I studied through Alexismex's link (thanx to him )http://www.techlib.com/science/ion.html I can imagine we will built the antenna much more easily as it looks for the moment. It has to be some tube or tin-can but not completly closed. This will reduce the electrostatic and may give us the chance to analyse the incoming ionic rays / pulse-ratings. At least we will built some radioactive-metal detector... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_scrap_metal Quote:
And now we know why the Mineoro DC 2008 needs 12 x 1,5v batteries (18v) - because of the (b)ionic-chamber.
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#39
05-26-2010, 12:50 PM
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LRL
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Yes,its interesting to build the most eficient ANTENNA or IONIC CHAMBER with gold sample for resonant .ANY IDEIAS ???,everybody can give opinions,or just say its impossible. For now i´m interested to know the working FREQUENCY OF THE ZAHORI ,if someone know,please tell me.
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#40
05-26-2010, 01:46 PM
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With the exception of the people who are intrested in selling these locators, most people find they do not help to locate buried gold. Nobody who has opened an OKM detector has found evidence of any ion chambers, but they have found the fluxgate magnetic sensors. Here is the sensor they found: The appearance is the OKM detectors are demonstrated to show variations in the magnetic gradient, and are manipulated in a manner to fool the observers into thinking they are tracking gold rather than measuring small changes in the magnetic field. This is confirmed by the fact that the OKM detectors must be moved to scan only in a vertical direction after they are calibrated for a given compass direction. If they are rotated toward a different compass direction, the earth's magnetic field will throw them out of calibration so they must be recalibrated for the new direction. (This seems reasonable since the fluxgate sensors are positioned laterally to the side of each other, allowing vertical rotation only). The text display on the detector also helps to convince a lot of people that there are secret circuits inside that lock onto gold. But the real proof is in the field where treasure hunters try it out and find out how well it works to locate buried gold. Nearly everyone who has tried an OKM product in the field on thier own has concluded it is a piece of junk that does not locate gold. But it can be used as a fairly good gradiometer. The problem is the cost is about the same as you pay for a used Mercedes Benz. Instead of buying an OKM detector, you could build a more sensitive gradiometer for about $200 or less. Before you conclude the OKM detectos are finding gold, read these threads from the Geophysics forum from people who have actually used them and looked to see what is inside them: http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15985 http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14775 http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13747 My opinion about how the OKM detectors locate gold: I think anyone who believes the OKM will locate treasure for them while they are treasure hunting will be disappointed the same as the people who posted in the Geophysics forum. I would suggest you try out the OKM in your own hands in a location where you hide the gold away from other metal objects to see how well it works for you. Also try locating the shovel with the gold placed below it to see what you find. Then try it with the gold only, and no shovel. If you are then convinced it is really finding treasure for you, you should buy it. But if you think it is performing like a cheap gradiometer, then maybe you would prefer to build your own gradiometer for a couple of hundred dollars. Best wishes, J_P
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#41
05-26-2010, 02:11 PM
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[quote=Funfinder;112271
Dr. Faustus at least had scientific interrest and didn't interrupt everything with silly provocative comments. [/quote] Not dr Faustus, but dr. Falst --> dr. Falsificatus.
__________________
Global capital is ruining your life? You have right to self-defence!
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#42
05-27-2010, 09:01 AM
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@ Morgan
We shouldn't call it: "POOR MANS GOLD ION LOCATOR" but "SMART MANS GOLD ION LOCATOR" - poor are those after buying such devices for thousands of dollars. About the "gold resonance factor": The best way would be to put some piece of goldprobe into an peanuts-can sized ion-chamber and anayze the results like with radioactive probe. This wouldn't require extremly high sensitivity and could show us the right way. But the big question is: What makes the gold-ions different from the huge rest and how much "go through solid material"-power they have. Afaik the Zahori has no frequency at all, especially not the Mini-Zahori, because it measures the voltage field and it could became really complex for instance to measure just the electrostatic field between 1000-10000Volts. @ WM6 Quote:
 @ J_Player Thx for the links, I will read them. (edit: they are don't giving much or reliable information) Nice work you've done here in illustrating the possible "fake show" - we just won't come any further by pure speculations. The shovel also could have been used to mark the gold ring for finding it again if the Bionic not will work or so the viewer knows that the goldring really is at this special location. Not to forget he uses the Bionic 01 and I'm speaking about the Alpha, which already claims it does NOT works for really far distances, but instead also can detect other metals, too. The price is a topic on its own. A small 10ct emerald also could cost ya 10.000 dollars! Same with very rare collection objects or hitec prototype stuff. If you have the money get your darling a ring for 10.000 bucks - but it's nothing essential (ok, under some circumstances it might be...) The big question is: it is worth the high price or not! Yes it is, but only if you will find valuable stuff for shure and not just for holding on to a dream that never comes true. But I think such a high price is a pretty good justification that the expensive LRL HAS TO WORK as described otherwise the unsatisfied customer has a very good reason for going immediatly to court or getting his money back! The more it costs the more money would be lost or "stolen" if it doesn't work and therefore the higher the "punishment" for a fraud-company has to be - this can tell you any lawyer. Before buying a LRL always ask your lawyer how you can stay on the safe side... Anyway, if this discussion will go on further that highly controvers without clear and secured facts the only way out would be testing this device on my own - and believe me, I don't let deceive myself, I know how to test such stuff "foolproved". I also wouldn't buy some Mineoro if it claims to detect "fresh gold" (sorry, but "fresh" usually is vegetable or fruits but no gold! ) and it just beeps randomly.btw. OKM tells on its website that the Bionic Alpha uses three different detection methods you can select, if those don't work alltogether. It may have been my fault to post the links to the Bionic 01 clips but from now on we should focus on the Alpha and after we know exactly how and if it works we can proceed to the Bionic 01. btw. "DetectionServices" also shows some "BabyFinder" test and it does not look like he wants to deceive any persons in this video: http://www.youtube.com/user/Detectio.../1/zKzqKl2A5CM Other topic: Yesterday I made some outdoor test with my fruitbox-detector (of course this is just a prototype for experimenting, the final device will look totally different) - but now connected with a 1-100 pF variable capacitor. The large electricity line made a noise like a helicopter! Tuning the capacitor (connected between +9V, an 1k resistor and the base alias gate of the FET) brought alot but not enough to eliminate such highpower signals completly. But it works and now the next step is finding the best "directional antenna" and balance of the circuit so it really can detect conductive or static-field-distorting metal below the ground. If this is done at least we will know for shure if an electrostatic or Zahori detector works, how good and what kind of antenna-improvements have to be made. Anyone here already has some field reports how his electrostatic-detector worked out in the field or what kind of problems did occure?! If I remember right ivconic built one but wasn't very satisfied with the detection results. btw. detecting the static or the ions uses almost or the same circuit, so it could be possible adding just two different antennas (the ion-tube also is one) to the same device! We will find out.
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#43
05-27-2010, 10:38 AM
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At the end you will rediscover deep frozen tap water bottled by Funfinder.
__________________
Global capital is ruining your life? You have right to self-defence!
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#44
05-28-2010, 12:29 AM
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BIONIC
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So,it was this man Manolo´s friend,who want to convince people that OKM lrl works... This is realy BIG SCAM,this piece of crap is useles and cost IO.OOO EURO. OKM people should be shame,and this LRL agent in Italy also !!!
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#45
05-28-2010, 12:43 AM
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OKM
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JUST ONE SHORT STORY ABOUT OKM One friend buy the BIONIC 01 and go search in frontier near Austria-Hungria, in special celtic territory where already treasures have ben found. The place is where the celts buried ofers to their gods. The owner of this BIONIC 01,search during one week all this place and surounds and said no more treasures,he finds NOTHING !!! A week latter some of my friend go to the same place with powerful metal detector and dig five medium size treasures !!! Was schulde ich ihnen ? OKM is to deceive people,sorry to tell,i know you are from Germany but this BIONIC´s are useles...
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#46
05-28-2010, 04:37 AM
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There is no reason to go to court or hire a lawyer. You are in Germany! You are in a perfect position to test any OKM detector yourself and see if it will work for you to help you find treasure. There are Germans who own different models of OKM who you can contact to ask questions and maybe go on field trips to see what the OKM can do. You do not need to speculate anything. The best test of any treasure locator is to put it in your own hands and use it to see if it can help you find hidden treasure. Use the detector and see if it is something you want to spend the money for. After you try it in the conditions that you normally hunt for treasure, you will know without speculation if you want to buy it. For example: If you go to a known location where people buried gold treasures for their gods and the OKM shows you the location of 10 kilos of gold in different places before the end of the day, then maybe you will buy the OKM detector as soon as you return to the store. But if you find cannot find gold, even in places where you buried the gold, then maybe you will tell the OKM people that you agree with other German treasure hunters that the OKM does not find gold. For me it is speculation that no OKM model can find gold, because I never tested an OKM in a way that will prevent the salesman from making tricks to fool me. But you are close to the OKM detector manufacturer. And Morgan can give you information about other German people who know the answers from testing with their own hands. You have no need to speculate. You can easily find the answers if you want to know. It is true I am speculating all the OKM detectors are gradiometers and cannot identify gold. But it is also true that you are speculating when you say you "have no doubt the OKM Bionic detects gold from a distance". The difference between my speculation and your speculation is my speculation costs me nothing, but your speculation costs 10.000 EU. If you decide not to test the OKM for yourself before buying, then you are left with a final decision: You've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya? Are you ready to hold on to a dream that never comes true? Best wishes, J_P
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#47
05-28-2010, 05:01 AM
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Best wishes, J_P
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#48
05-29-2010, 12:07 PM
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@ J_Player
It's not that simple as you might think but I really like your very good and fair argumentation! I am not from Germany but from a german speaking neighbour-country and visiting OKM in Windischleuba near Leipzig would b a 2-3 days trip minimum and would cost me around 300-500 Euro. So first the question is if it's really worth. I asked a treasure hunter pro that worked already with OKM detectors and he told me that this is a very complex story and I should test those devices absolutly by myself. And even if you may believe those will tell me for shure lies for selling their products, I will try to contact some OKM resellers to get more specific info about the Bionic 01 and Alpha. The OKM Magnetometer / Gradiometer devices work for shure - just how good is the question. But you also can get such units here: http://kts-electronic.com/content/view/12/54/lang,en/ The price is 12.000 Euro and I doubt they make a special high price if it's not justified by expensive parts and long engineering and production-issues, because they also want to sell their products for an attractive price. @ Morgan It was the OKM Bionic 01 "LRL only" your german friends have used unsuccessfully. I have no doubt your report about that celtic site is true but we can't use this as a proof this stuff is completly garbage and doesn't work at all. The most important thing first is to find out what detection-abilities are proofable and repeatable testable. Like the "fresh gold" detector of new Mineoros - if it really works like the name claims. The second question is really to proof this distance tests shown in that already known videos - especially that outside one! What kind of calibration is used and how deep the fresh gold get's detected - but if buried! I don't know if Esteban already bought such device to add it to his "LRL arsenal" as he told - but if yes, he also can tell us his own fieldtest-results. Shure I'm feeling sad about your german friends they haven't found anything so far with such a very expensive detector and perhaps after real much work, but this is no proof it doesn't work at all. And I doubt they bought it without any try or test before. Nobody makes such risky and expensive investments without at least some tests before. I also don't know if they are in contact now with OKM and what those say to statements like: "Your Bionic 01 completly doesn't work, so either give me a working one or my money back!" Morgan, near where I am living alot Nazi-Gold and other treasures have been hidden at the end of WW2. Most of it has been found already, but not everything. So a real working LRL could be pays off if I get if with such one - but that's the big ??? For final pinpointing the Jeohunter already is perfect but this area is huge and the gold could be have been buried everywhere - at 1m depth minimum! But for shure I won't invest 10.000 bucks into some unsecure device that works just sometimes. That's why I really would like to get such OKM Bionic into my hands and make really smart tests. We have to find out if it works or not or how good, if we want to find "special hidden treasures" and I will look forward to do this.
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#49
05-29-2010, 12:55 PM
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#50
05-30-2010, 05:51 AM
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hello esteban ya estas bien de tu ojo? yo espero que ya estes bien
hi esteban i finally healt of you eye? i await you' re fine
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Linear Mode
