How to construct a Test area for LRLs

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Esteban

For me is very hard no think in it since I learn of a man who make miracles in this field.

Fully agreed, Esteban.

There are "a man who make miracles in this field" by scamming naive buyers and sell him shameless expensive non-working crappy boxes.

[nick_f]

The world is full of people as John Edwards or other so called psyhics. Many of them are extremely successful and all of them rely on the willingness of the participants to believe in what the psychics have to say. If you are in for some entertainment, check on youtube all the movies with skeptic James Randi, testing various paranormal abilities of people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeYkOHQ683k

Actually, even better, you can check the movie about detecting metals (zinc) using the dowsing method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOsCn...eature=related

Regards,
Nicolae

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by nick_f

The world is full of people as John Edwards or other so called psyhics. Many of them are extremely successful and all of them rely on the willingness of the participants to believe in what the psychics have to say. If you are in for some entertainment, check on youtube all the movies with skeptic James Randi, testing various paranormal abilities of people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeYkOHQ683k

Actually, even better, you can check the movie about detecting metals (zinc) using the dowsing method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOsCn...eature=related

Regards,
Nicolae

Electronic methods is not the same than dowsing methods.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by nick_f

Hi Esteban,

What kind of miracles? If you have ten pots with soil and hide two coins in them, can he or you identify the right pots? Or, even better, is a skeptical person able to use a LRL? In case him/you are not able to specify the right pots, at least you can have a miriad of reasons why it didn't work. If I use a standard metal detector and fail, there can be only one explanation: my detector must be a LRL

Regards,
Nicolae

Your reference is maybe about dowsing...

[nick_f]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Electronic methods is not the same than dowsing methods.

Hi Esteban,

Do you have a specific diagram (or block diagram) for one of the LRL you are using? I am sure on this forum there are many people very experienced in electronics and they could evaluate the diagram and provide some feedback about its capability to detect at large ranges.
There are a few teams working on various novel ways to improve classic metal detectors. Would you dare to ask the experts their oppinion about LRL's? For one, I know what Carl believes about LRL...

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/page...&file=main.dat

Regards,
Nicolae

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by nick_f

Hi Esteban,

Do you have a specific diagram (or block diagram) for one of the LRL you are using? I am sure on this forum there are many people very experienced in electronics and they could evaluate the diagram and provide some feedback about its capability to detect at large ranges.
There are a few teams working on various novel ways to improve classic metal detectors. Would you dare to ask the experts their oppinion about LRL's? For one, I know what Carl believes about LRL...

http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/page...&file=main.dat

Regards,
Nicolae

I post many block diagrams. I can re-post.

Regards

[Esteban]

This is a kind of "scientific" instrument (I called...). This shows how the "irradiation" or "electric field" causes by metal buried some years can be very strong, not all electronic LRL shows it in great magnitude than this.

[hung]

Originally Posted by nick_f

Do you have a specific diagram (or block diagram) for one of the LRL you are using?

Esteban has posted already many block diagrams. But this is the farthest that he will go showing here. Do you really expect that his that dumb to post relevant schematics? I think you don't need to reply.
I already said here. This will never h-a-p-p-e-n.

I am sure on this forum there are many people very experienced in electronics and they could evaluate the diagram and provide some feedback about its capability to detect at large ranges.

Quoting Dell: 'Stupidity is, Stupidity does'.
Maybe they are good to build remote controls for TV Sets. LRLs? Never. Sorry.

There are a few teams working on various novel ways to improve classic metal detectors.

Good luck to them. They are only trying to reinvent the wheel. And very limited toys those are.

Would you dare to ask the experts their oppinion about LRL's? For one, I know what Carl believes about LRL...

No kidding? Carl is our best LRL promoter ever. Everything he says is exactly the opposite. All LRLs he coments about are a success.

You see, we are the LRL tribe. We are like masons, the Iluminatti. Only a few selected. Better it stays like this, honestly.

And sorry to answer your post for Esteban. I just thought some clarifcation should be done.

Happy new year my friend.

[WM6]

Originally Posted by hung

. I just thought some clarifcation should be done.

Happy new year my friend.

Dear Hung,

your clarifications are the same as Estebans block diagrams: quasi scientific blah blah dream comics, full of nothing.

Happy new year to you too.


PS: Well known fact - LRL "scientist" for serious treasure hunting use metal detectors.

[Esteban]

Is very difficult to post complete schematic... Here a RF pistol, in other photo 2 pistols and the recovered coin. Was 1979 or 1980... 30 years ago!!! What for 2 pistols if doesn't work?

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Is very difficult to post complete schematic

Even impossible, because there is no working schematic.

Originally Posted by Esteban

! What for 2 pistols if doesn't work?

What for 3 pistolieros if one pistol really work?

And photography taken with your own osteria change coin as Crown evidence? Please do not try to make this year more funny than is.

[Dell Winders]

Originally Posted by WM6

Fully agreed, Esteban.

There are "a man who make miracles in this field" by scamming naive buyers and sell him shameless expensive non-working crappy boxes.

From what I see of who manufactures the majority of LRL products sold on the market, most of those you refer to scamming naive buyers, are also known as Electronic Engineers, and electronic techs.

Me, I'm just a country boy with very little formal education that enjoys Science, and enjoy using what the electronics people make and sell, so I guess I am one of those naive buyers you refer to, since I have spent well over $200,000 buying and testing those shameless, expensive, crappy boxes,built by electronics people. Most have worked for me. I like them.

Dell

[Fred]

Originally Posted by hung

Do you really expect that his that dumb to post relevant schematics? I think you don't need to reply.
I already said here. This will never h-a-p-p-e-n.

How can you be so sure of this ?

[Geo]

[quote = nick_f; 103376]
I find it hard to believe that there are still people dreaming that LRL detectors actually work (especially people that visit a technical site such as geotech). There is no proof and there will never be. Some people actually make money tricking others into buying these crappy things. But why would anybody else waste time with them?
With a real metal detector it is easy to identify if a piece of metal is present at a decent distance. With a LRL nobody can detect a piece of metal even if it is present at 1mm, 1cm, 10cm, 1m or 10m. How more obvious can it be they simply don't work?
Nicolae [/ quote]



Hahahaha ....
You say this because you don't know!!!!!
I found coins with LRL rods from 500m distanceand my teacher from 2Km far???? I found a golden coinfrom 20m far with a electronic LRL and some very old jewels from 80m distance with Iconos. Also i found a silver plate from 40m distance with electronic LRL.
I own many metal detectors, but i did not found something special at depth more than 30cm. So who is your opinion???? For what you are speaking???? To don't believe at LRLs and to believe at metal detectors

Regards

[nick_f]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Me, I'm just a country boy with very little formal education that enjoys Science, and enjoy using what the electronics people make and sell, so I guess I am one of those naive buyers you refer to, since I have spent well over $200,000 buying and testing those shameless, expensive, crappy boxes,built by electronics people. Most have worked for me. I like them.

Dell

Exactly, you are the typical "victim" for the people who sell LRL's. You have little education and plenty of money from what I can see
Perhaps most LRL's you purchased worked for you in the same way electronic components work for me. I bought heaps of them, but used very few of them. I get pleasure from buying electronic components, I can dream I will build that or the other, but rarely do so. Do I regret this? Not a bit. Do you regret wasting heaps of money for the LRL? Probably not, because you are a collector.

Regards,
Nicolae

[nick_f]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hahahaha ....
You say this because you don't know!!!!!
I found coins with LRL rods from 500m distanceand my teacher from 2Km far???? I found a golden coinfrom 20m far with a electronic LRL and some very old jewels from 80m distance with Iconos. Also i found a silver plate from 40m distance with electronic LRL.
I own many metal detectors, but i did not found something special at depth more than 30cm. So who is your opinion???? For what you are speaking???? To don't believe at LRLs and to believe at metal detectors
Regards

Yes, the metal detectors have their obvious limitations. Unless there is a very large target, most won't find anything over 30 cm. This is all what engineers have been able to build so far. You can give a metal detector to anybody, teach them how to use one, and you can bet even a 5 yo can find a coin under 3cm of soil.
There are people who found a lot more than you found with no LRL or metal detectors. They got in the right place at the right time. Some of them are called thieves
Anyway, why should I try to convince people against what they enjoy?Somebody's idea of a great holiday is to go in a survival camp and eat earthworms and snakes. Somebody else's may to visit museums and other places in Paris (or go hunting for gold). As long as both of them are happy in the end, mission accomplished.
The only thing is, don't try to convince me that eating earthworms is a pleasant experience
And yes, you are right. I am speaking for the less experienced people, who've heard about metal detectors and LRL and they are not decided which ones to buy.

Regards,
Nicolae

[nick_f]

Originally Posted by Esteban

This is a kind of "scientific" instrument (I called...). This shows how the "irradiation" or "electric field" causes by metal buried some years can be very strong, not all electronic LRL shows it in great magnitude than this.

Esteban, I had a look at your diagram. You have a rapid impulse (or pulse) amplifier in there. Does gold emit rapid pulses? When you brign some gold very close to a LRL, can you see the needle going high?
You are right with the capacitor at the output of the pulse amplifier. If you change its value, the needle indication will change. Because a capacitor acts like a shortcircuit for pulses. The larger the value, the less indication on the needle. The electrolytic capacitor is used to separate the DC between stages, and it is ok to stay there. The higher its capacitance, the lower the frequency that can go through.
I am not sure what's inside the equalizer. Is it like an audio equalizer, that amplifies more some frequencies than others? Or is it more like a signal compressor, it provides a pretty constant output for an input signal varying in large limits?
The diagram is not a complete nonsense, as I was expecting. It respects some electronic rules. But if you look deeper into it, you might have a few surprises. If you put a one diode detector followed by a pair of high impedance headphones at the output of the rapid impulse amplifier, you will be able to hear a lot of AM radio broadcast, all stations mixed together.
Conclusion: your device is some sort of a electrical field meter, but instead of finding gold, has more chance of finding transmission towers and radio broadcast stations Take your instrument into a Faraday cage, and the needle will go to zero... bring all the gold you've got into the cage, there won't be the slightest change in indication.

Thanks for sharing the circuit diagram with us.

Regards,
Nicolae

[Geo]

Originally Posted by nick_f

Yes, the metal detectors have their obvious limitations. Unless there is a very large target, most won't find anything over 30 cm. This is all what engineers have been able to build so far. You can give a metal detector to anybody, teach them how to use one, and you can bet even a 5 yo can find a coin under 3cm of soil.
There are people who found a lot more than you found with no LRL or metal detectors. They got in the right place at the right time. Some of them are called thieves
Anyway, why should I try to convince people against what they enjoy?Somebody's idea of a great holiday is to go in a survival camp and eat earthworms and snakes. Somebody else's may to visit museums and other places in Paris (or go hunting for gold). As long as both of them are happy in the end, mission accomplished.
The only thing is, don't try to convince me that eating earthworms is a pleasant experience
And yes, you are right. I am speaking for the less experienced people, who've heard about metal detectors and LRL and they are not decided which ones to buy.

Regards,
Nicolae

We say the same things...
Why you try to convince me that the LRL don't work???
I don't try to convince you that LRL work!!!!

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by nick_f

Take your instrument into a Faraday cage, and the needle will go to zero... bring all the gold you've got into the cage, there won't be the slightest change in indication.

Thanks for sharing the circuit diagram with us.

Regards,
Nicolae

What you did not occupy is that the lrl they do not detect metals, they detect certain conditions that are created by the metals.

Regards

[nick_f]

Originally Posted by Geo

What you did not occupy is that the lrl they do not detect metals, they detect certain conditions that are created by the metals.

Regards

Couldn't agree more. They can not detect metals.
They can only detect something called electromagnetic fields and what produces them, which is Transmission Antennas

You know for sure that metal detectors are coursed by presence of nearby electromagnetic fields, emmited by power lines, flyback monitors, high efficiency lamps.

How does a LRL prevent the radio signals from overpowering the faint signals of the "certain conditions" due to presence of metals?

I just decided to get more informed about the LRL's. I consider wikipedia a pretty good source of information.

Here is a good presentation of LRL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_range_locator

Regards,
Nicolae

[Geo]

Originally Posted by nick_f

Couldn't agree more. They can not detect metals.
They can only detect something called electromagnetic fields and what produces them, which is Transmission Antennas

You know for sure that metal detectors are coursed by presence of nearby electromagnetic fields, emmited by power lines, flyback monitors, high efficiency lamps.

How does a LRL prevent the radio signals from overpowering the faint signals of the "certain conditions" due to presence of metals?

I just decided to get more informed about the LRL's. I consider wikipedia a pretty good source of information.

Here is a good presentation of LRL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_range_locator

Regards,
Nicolae

Hi.
I have not the ability to explain how LRL is working !!!!
I say what i have see all these years.
Example...... I have a coin 10cm in the ground, and with a metal detector i locate it. Normal condition....
I remove the coin from the earth and the MD don't detect it... again normal condition. I made the same with a electronic LRL at 2 gold coins. LRL located them. I remove the one coin and i buried it after 2 meters. LRL detected a line from one coin to other..... (not normal condition..), i removed the coins and for 5... 10 minutes LRL detected the same line (from coin to coin).... (not normal condition). I saw it, and i don't know why... or "about why". So (sorry for it), you can't tell me anything about it!!!! Also i don't Know if Esteban saw similar "phenomenon"

Regards

[nick_f]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hi.
I have not the ability to explain how LRL is working !!!!
I say what i have see all these years.
Example...... I have a coin 10cm in the ground, and with a metal detector i locate it. Normal condition....
I remove the coin from the earth and the MD don't detect it... again normal condition. I made the same with a electronic LRL at 2 gold coins. LRL located them. I remove the one coin and i buried it after 2 meters. LRL detected a line from one coin to other..... (not normal condition..), i removed the coins and for 5... 10 minutes LRL detected the same line (from coin to coin).... (not normal condition). I saw it, and i don't know why... or "about why". So (sorry for it), you can't tell me anything about it!!!! Also i don't Know if Esteban saw similar "phenomenon"

Regards

So, if you have two gold nuggets, 10 meters apart and you identify the line that links them, you will have to dig like 10 meters in order to find them. In some soils, that could take a whole week of hard work! What is the gold is at 5 meters under the ground? Would you ever dig that deep?
What if you have five gold nuggets in an area of 25 square meters, how will the LRL "tell" you where to search and how deep before you quit?

I suppose you were reading the "spectrums" of the gold coins after you removed them. Or, more likely, you were just getting some radio signal, like the people who do radio fox hunting.

Regards,
Nicolae

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by nick_f

Esteban, I had a look at your diagram. You have a rapid impulse (or pulse) amplifier in there. Does gold emit rapid pulses? When you brign some gold very close to a LRL, can you see the needle going high?
You are right with the capacitor at the output of the pulse amplifier. If you change its value, the needle indication will change. Because a capacitor acts like a shortcircuit for pulses. The larger the value, the less indication on the needle. The electrolytic capacitor is used to separate the DC between stages, and it is ok to stay there. The higher its capacitance, the lower the frequency that can go through.
I am not sure what's inside the equalizer. Is it like an audio equalizer, that amplifies more some frequencies than others? Or is it more like a signal compressor, it provides a pretty constant output for an input signal varying in large limits?
The diagram is not a complete nonsense, as I was expecting. It respects some electronic rules. But if you look deeper into it, you might have a few surprises. If you put a one diode detector followed by a pair of high impedance headphones at the output of the rapid impulse amplifier, you will be able to hear a lot of AM radio broadcast, all stations mixed together.
Conclusion: your device is some sort of a electrical field meter, but instead of finding gold, has more chance of finding transmission towers and radio broadcast stations Take your instrument into a Faraday cage, and the needle will go to zero... bring all the gold you've got into the cage, there won't be the slightest change in indication.

Thanks for sharing the circuit diagram with us.

Regards,
Nicolae

This not only detect gold and/or silver, also bronze, coins and cartridge type 7.62 and this last exhibit a big "field" or "phenomenon", I called. But this big "field" or "phenomenon" only is "testable" when the target is buried some years, called by others "halo"? Now, once, walking, I obtain a signal and was in lateral of the antenna, I saw a tree and in the base of it I put the antenna and don't stop the beeps. I found a stainless steel coin, common here. Once I obtain very short beeps and found a lead weight used for fishing. So, lead is a "cold" metal regarding the low level in "creation" of the "phenomenon".

Don't know if detect radio stations, but any device near a tower of radio is influenced by it. Also you can ear AM station in a common voltage regulator... In the input of my device exist as a kind of filter don't showed here.

[Esteban]

I use separate PCBs for to test different circuits. Audio beeper generator is appart also, and this don't suffer many mods., except the addition of high resistence in serie for to filtrate oxidated nails. The first time I detect in 2 opportunities nails in my patio and I discover that a high resistence in serie with the 100 pF stops detection of oxidated iron items, mainly nails, seems that sharp end of this produced a kind of charge scape and are more easily detectable. But I stop this.

Now, in the joint (via cable) of impulse capturer PCB and equalizer (regulation made between positive and negative of the power source, like a comparator) the detection also occurs with short beeps, this is down the machine. But in front part the beeps are very more insistent.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by nick_f

Couldn't agree more. They can not detect metals.
They can only detect something called electromagnetic fields and what produces them, which is Transmission Antennas

You know for sure that metal detectors are coursed by presence of nearby electromagnetic fields, emmited by power lines, flyback monitors, high efficiency lamps.

How does a LRL prevent the radio signals from overpowering the faint signals of the "certain conditions" due to presence of metals?

I just decided to get more informed about the LRL's. I consider wikipedia a pretty good source of information.

Here is a good presentation of LRL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_range_locator

Regards,
Nicolae

Maybe must be re-write the wiki info...