This will change the world

[Steve in MS]

Dell, just for the sake of discussion, how big does a piece of silver or gold have to be for one of your LRL's to pick it up?
Also, does it only get a signal on gold or silver if it is on top of the ground or can it be under the ground, and how far under the ground can it pick up an item?
What is the success rate when one uses one of your devices, gets a postive reading in an approximate percentage? I realize your answer to this would vary from person to person, just a rough guestimate will be ok.
How do your devices only pick up gold or silver and not aluminum, copper, iron, tin or underground water streams, water pipes, minerals, etc?
Do your devices give a better response the closer it gets to an object, say,
30 ft, 1 yard and a few inches away?
How much of the success of using one of your devices depend on the metaphysical or the paranormal aspect?
These questions are more or less a curiosity for me and a chance for you to inform us.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Just because I am open minded to possibilities, does not mean I am not skeptical of high tech Scientific, engineering claims used for advertising that are often contradictory to the facts of my own field experience with similar products.

I would hardly call their claims high-tech. It's the usual pseudo-scientific nonsense we've heard many times before.

Ready to answer the questions yet?

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK."

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

Dell, just for the sake of discussion, .....

I cannot resist it ... although I tried very hard.
I've just got to answer these questions for Dell, especially as you're unlikely to get any answers directly from him. Even if you do, Dell's memory is so selective that he'll probably only answer the odd one, and ignore the others.

So here goes:

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

... how big does a piece of silver or gold have to be for one of your LRL's to pick it up?

Makes no difference, because it's all metaphysical, and just a trick of the mind. So one atom of gold is as detectable as one ton.

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

Also, does it only get a signal on gold or silver if it is on top of the ground or can it be under the ground, and how far under the ground can it pick up an item?

It's the same result whether the gold/silver is 1mm from the device, or it's located on Mars.

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

What is the success rate when one uses one of your devices, gets a postive reading in an approximate percentage? I realize your answer to this would vary from person to person, just a rough guestimate will be ok.

The percentage is the same as guessing.

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

How do your devices only pick up gold or silver and not aluminum, copper, iron, tin or underground water streams, water pipes, minerals, etc?

Years of selective memory training, and self-denial. It's not worth explaining, as skeptics are too stupid to understand. You would need a brain the size of a planet, like what I've got.

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

Do your devices give a better response the closer it gets to an object, say,
30 ft, 1 yard and a few inches away?

Distance is irrelevant. The results are the same.

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

How much of the success of using one of your devices depend on the metaphysical or the paranormal aspect?

I have to exercise the full potential of my enormous cranium in order to metaphysically dowse. Ordinary humans have no chance. That's why I introduced the MFD, to enhance the puny dowsing capability of the average peasant's brain.

Originally Posted by Steve in MS

These questions are more or less a curiosity for me and a chance for you to inform us.

My pleasure.

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK." - or something like that!

[J_Player]

Hmmmm...
It looks like there is some difference in opinion about who is right and who is wrong here. So how can we know who to believe knows what is correct about these contraptions that supposedly find treasure?

Let's consider the sources of information we are hearing. I must ask myself a few questions about the background of these people before deciding who to believe. For example:

Who studied science, math, electronics and engineering for years to become knowledgeable in state of the art technical methods?

Who did not make it into college level education?

Who knows how to determine the difference between fake BS fairy-tale stories and the real deal by using scientific methods?

Who loves fairy-tales, fantastic movies and fiction novels, and tries to make these fairy-tales come true in their own lives?

Who is careful to report actual observations and draw conclusions based on principles of logic without introducing unprovable theories that can't be explained?

Who considers a coincidental event to be proof for a new theory of unknown science that only they can make work... and two or three coincidental events become absolute proof of the new theory, so it is no longer a theory, but a law of the new unknown science, even in the face of millions of contrary events that would prove the new theory false by statistical methods?

Who has collected certificates from highly respected educational institutions that certify they are competent in the latest technology?

Who has collected certificates from highly respected municipal and legal institutions which claim they have defrauded someone or a class of people?


Well, If I can determine the answers to these questions, then maybe I will have a clue of who to believe.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

It's the same result whether the gold/silver is 1mm from the device, or it's located on Mars.

But i want to find gold on Europa,will i work ?
(hmmm i know , lousy one)

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

The percentage is the same as guessing..

BTW, this will almost always be >= to 50% , as there is always some clues or logical deductions involved. So even positive results must be taken with care.

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

.
You Skeptics claim to be proponents of Science only when it fits your beliefs. Now, I see you are mocking it, without scientific investigation, or verification. What a bunch of hypocrites.

What about the glue and hanger you are selling?
What a scam and how do it works again?
Who is the man in your avartar it is not you?
Snake oil is SNAKE OIL.
PLEASE SHOW US YOUR SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION ON WHY YOUR WIRE AND GLUE WORKS( YOU MAY HAVE STOP USING THE GLUE?
DO YOU KNOW WHAT 60/40 IS OR DO YOU USE SILVER .
WHAT DO YOU USE A 27W OR THE BIG 100 WATTER( LET ME THINK I'LL BET THE 100 WATT MONSTER.)

[Dell Winders]

Dell, just for the sake of discussion, how big does a piece of silver or gold have to be for one of your LRL's to pick it up?
Also, does it only get a signal on gold or silver if it is on top of the ground or can it be under the ground, and how far under the ground can it pick up an item?
What is the success rate when one uses one of your devices, gets a postive reading in an approximate percentage? I realize your answer to this would vary from person to person, just a rough guestimate will be ok.
How do your devices only pick up gold or silver and not aluminum, copper, iron, tin or underground water streams, water pipes, minerals, etc?
Do your devices give a better response the closer it gets to an object, say,
30 ft, 1 yard and a few inches away?
How much of the success of using one of your devices depend on the metaphysical or the paranormal aspect?
These questions are more or less a curiosity for me and a chance for you to inform us.

Steve, those are legitimate questions, but as you can see this a hecklers forum for closed minded idiots to exercise their prejudice mentality. Serious discussions of LRL are not allowed to progress. It is a waste of my time to try to answer questions here. Sorry, this is the wrong atmosphere to have serious discussions.

I participate here when I have time, because it is a wonderment to me to see grown, formally educated men, pretending to be Scientific, and go into such rages of childish rants when their ego's are threatened by someone of far less formal educational background. I do find some of the postings on Carl's, forum amusing. Dell

[Dell Winders]

Hmmmm...
It looks like there is some difference in opinion about who is right and who is wrong here. So how can we know who to believe knows what is correct about these contraptions that supposedly find treasure?

Let's consider the sources of information we are hearing. I must ask myself a few questions about the background of these people before deciding who to believe. For example:

Who studied science, math, electronics and engineering for years to become knowledgeable in state of the art technical methods?

Who did not make it into college level education?

Who knows how to determine the difference between fake BS fairy-tale stories and the real deal by using scientific methods?

Who loves fairy-tales, fantastic movies and fiction novels, and tries to make these fairy-tales come true in their own lives?

Who is careful to report actual observations and draw conclusions based on principles of logic without introducing unprovable theories that can't be explained?

Who considers a coincidental event to be proof for a new theory of unknown science that only they can make work... and two or three coincidental events become absolute proof of the new theory, so it is no longer a theory, but a law of the new unknown science, even in the face of millions of contrary events that would prove the new theory false by statistical methods?

Who has collected certificates from highly respected educational institutions that certify they are competent in the latest technology?

Who has collected certificates from highly respected municipal and legal institutions which claim they have defrauded someone or a class of people?


Well, If I can determine the answers to these questions, then maybe I will have a clue of who to believe.

Best wishes,
J_P

JP, I can certainly see your dilemma, and you have my sympathy. If that was the criteria I had to use to make a decision, I would be as confused as you.

With folks using fictitious names, and not providing educational backgrounds, or personal information, (except me) I cannot answer those questions either. But then, I speak honestly from my own field experience, and do not rely on the assumptions and opinions of others as being factual information.

Sorry, I can't help you, but here is a little hint to your problem.

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND" Dell

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Serious discussions of LRL are not allowed to progress. It is a waste of my time to try to answer questions here.

Dell, i disagree: if you were answering simply and honestly to the questions posted here, the atmospher would not be what it is.As is said before, you are not very positive in your arguments.If i had discovered that Lrods (for example) are working, i would be here to explain precisely how i found this, under what circumstances, and how i can prove it.

[putrechigi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

JP, I can certainly see your dilemma, and you have my sympathy. If that was the criteria I had to use to make a decision, I would be as confused as you.

With folks using fictitious names, and not providing educational backgrounds, or personal information, (except me) I cannot answer those questions either. But then, I speak honestly from my own field experience, and do not rely on the assumptions and opinions of others as being factual information.

Sorry, I can't help you, but here is a little hint to your problem.

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND" Dell

hi dell i haven't 10000$ but many many point where tested your lrl if yiou want to came in italy i whait you everytime serious

[Dell Winders]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders
Serious discussions of LRL are not allowed to progress. It is a waste of my time to try to answer questions here.

Dell, i disagree: if you were answering simply and honestly to the questions posted here, the atmospher would not be what it is.As is said before, you are not very positive in your arguments.If i had discovered that Lrods (for example) are working, i would be here to explain precisely how i found this, under what circumstances, and how i can prove it.

Fred, you only have look back at the archives to see the skeptics attitude and bashing of LRL users, or Dowsers.

I've tried to share information here in the past, Knowledgeable people like Hung, have tried to share their experience, Estaban has tried very hard to share information, and experience, Michael, has tried to share his LRL experience. Mike, is trying to share his knowledge & experience with both Dowsing & LRL, and there are others that gave up quickly.

This is a Skeptic's forum, for Skeptics, where ridicule and mocking of LRL users, or Dowsers is encouraged by the webmaster. These people make a life style of being closed minded, and prejudice to any thing they can't comprehend. Dell

[Dell Winders]

hi dell i haven't 10000$ but many many point where tested your lrl if yiou want to came in italy i whait you everytime serious

putrechigi, traveling to Italy, is not an option for me. I am physically handicapped, and financially unable.

I thank you for your offer. Dell

[Max]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Fred, you only have look back at the archives to see the skeptics attitude and bashing of LRL users, or Dowsers.

I've tried to share information here in the past, Knowledgeable people like Hung, have tried to share their experience, Estaban has tried very hard to share information, and experience, Michael, has tried to share his LRL experience. Mike, is trying to share his knowledge & experience with both Dowsing & LRL, and there are others that gave up quickly.

This is a Skeptic's forum, for Skeptics, where ridicule and mocking of LRL users, or Dowsers is encouraged by the webmaster. These people make a life style of being closed minded, and prejudice to any thing they can't comprehend. Dell

just cause you're funny ! As all the other stoned here...

It's skeptic forum ? No... it's skeptic ring... and anytime you jump in you'll lose cause cannot provide anything good apart hot melt joints... that you say you never made etc etc ...

Kind of Willy Wonka's Oompa-Loompas : you don't mess with hot glue guns ... you have some Oompa-Loompas that do it for you !

So, instead of melting chocolate for you , as with Wonka, they melt the glue... I see!

But is unfair you'll not print too the golden tickets ...and show to some fortunate guys here your dream "factory"...

Kind regards,
Max

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I've tried to share information here in the past, Knowledgeable people like Hung, have tried to share their experience, Estaban has tried very hard to share information, and experience, Michael, has tried to share his LRL experience. Mike, is trying to share his knowledge & experience with both Dowsing & LRL, and there are others that gave up quickly.

Except Esteban,i have seen no one here to really share anything, just claiming this and that,( usually amazings things), but not the smallest part of an evidence ,not even the attempt to give one.
Why none of them have done that? How to you expect somebody believing others claims just like that?
How do this sounds to you :
"hey, i have built a machine,(a few leds and pots),if you are mentally prepared you can see people in the street naked.By adjusting this pot you can tune it to work only with women (for men on request).Only a few hundreds of dollars,if it doesn´t work with you it´s your fault,full stomach, iron blood or skeptical mind, but it works, i´m telling you!"

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

With folks using fictitious names, and not providing educational backgrounds, or personal information, (except me) I cannot answer those questions either.

You forgot about fictitious avatars.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Sorry, I can't help you, but here is a little hint to your problem.

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND" Dell

Same old rhetoric. It's a pity you don't read the words more carefully, and follow your own advice.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

... Knowledgeable people like Hung, ...

Now you're just being silly...

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Estaban has tried very hard to share information, and experience, ...

Actually, I respect Esteban because he has the correct attitude. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but he is a genuine (maybe misguided) experimenter. Yes - he does come up with some strange stuff, and at times this can be amusing. However, I welcome his presence here.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

These people make a life style of being closed minded, and prejudice to any thing they can't comprehend. Dell

That's why you have such a bad experience whenever you post on this forum. It's because our comprehension of dowsing and LRL quackery is actually quite good. Unfortunately, years of closing your mind to the real scientific world, has left you self-deluded and incapable of seeing the truth. I appears that you now really believe your own marketing BS.

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK!"

[hung]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Originally Posted by Dell Winders
... Knowledgeable people like Hung,
Now you're just being silly...

Envy is the worst of all evils...

Actually, I respect Esteban because he has the correct attitude. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but he is a genuine (maybe misguided) experimenter.

Oh I see.. Misguided by 'brickheads' such as yourself?

For your eyes only.. And to other eyes here.
I will never discuss here my sucessful device and the technology involved.
It took study, research and effort. And... Merit!

If you don't raise your butt from your armchair and study, you will always be the comic character skeptic here.
A life totally wasted... Jeezzz..

Dell, advice 2:

Get out of this thread. You don't deseve to waste your time with these people. You know the truth. Let them remain in the dark. THEY WANT IT TO.

That old saying: 'Don't throw pearls to the pigs', come in handy here.
Good luck.

[gwzd]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

putrechigi, traveling to Italy, is not an option for me. I am physically handicapped, and financially unable.

I thank you for your offer. Dell

Isn't your business profitable?
Regards
R.A.

[Dell Winders]

We seem to agree that Dowsing, is meta-physical. Dell

Why in the world would I agree to that? Science has very thoroughly explained dowsing; it is not "beyond physics" whatsoever.

Carl, is that a fact, or is this more of your scientific pretense?

If true, Then perhaps you will scientifically explain the physics that I employed when I Dowsed a topo map spanning thousands of acres of rugged Arizona wilderness, for a specific target?

This target was Dowsed as being a man made marking, or marker from my home 3,000 miles away, and then found on site, within a few feet of where I plotted it to be.

Please scientifically explain the physics that I employed when I Dowsed another man made Marker, and the direction it was pointing on a Google Earth aerial photo of a 113 acre farm in Kentucky, from my home 700 miles away. Although the property had been in the family for nearly a century, the owner was never aware the marker existed until I went there, we walked to the Dowsed location, removed the leaves concealing it, and revealed the marker as described with Dowsing.

What are the physics related to my dowsing for tunnels, and caves, on photos and maps, from a thousand miles away, and finding those caves on site, and excavating to find those tunnels at the locations they were Dowsed to be.

I have experienced similar results at quite a number of map & photo Dowsed sites, which distance and lack of conscious awareness eliminates any prospect of chance guessing the description and location, or coincidence, but I never knew there was a Scientific explanation of the physics involved. So Carl, please tell me the Physics I am incorporating that allows me to do this? I really would like to know?

I have always been told, there is no known Scientific explanation for my learned Dowsing ability, and that it falls into the realm of meta-Physics? But, you say, that is not true? Dell

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

Envy is the worst of all evils...

This gets funnier every day!

Originally Posted by hung

For your eyes only.. And to other eyes here.
I will never discuss here my sucessful device and the technology involved.
It took study, research and effort. And... Merit!

As I said - this gets funnier every day!
We really don't care to know the details of your modified LRL contraption.. You lost credibility a long time ago, when you claimed the Ranger Tell actually does more than wallet mining.

Originally Posted by hung

A life totally wasted... Jeezzz..

That would make a brilliant title for your autobiography. Let me know when it's in the shops.

Originally Posted by hung

Get out of this thread. You don't deseve to waste your time with these people. You know the truth. Let them remain in the dark. THEY WANT IT TO.

Yet again, I can agree with the first part of your statement. The rest ... well, you know how it goes.

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK!"

[Dell Winders]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders
putrechigi, traveling to Italy, is not an option for me. I am physically handicapped, and financially unable.

I thank you for your offer. Dell

Isn't your business profitable?
Regards
R.A.

I guess it could be profitable if I went into production. The demand is there. I'm usually 1-3 months back ordered, but I am slow and only build them on request. Some are repeat customers, but most are from "word of mouth" references. I am very grateful for the additional income to supplement my $630 a month Social security. Dell

[Max]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

putrechigi, traveling to Italy, is not an option for me. I am physically handicapped, and financially unable.

I thank you for your offer. Dell

and how about "mentally" ? Ops... no your brain works good... you're still on business!

Are just customers that could have problems...

[Max]

Originally Posted by hung

Envy is the worst of all evils...






Oh I see.. Misguided by 'brickheads' such as yourself?

For your eyes only.. And to other eyes here.
I will never discuss here my sucessful device and the technology involved.
It took study, research and effort. And... Merit!

If you don't raise your butt from your armchair and study, you will always be the comic character skeptic here.
A life totally wasted... Jeezzz..

Dell, advice 2:

Get out of this thread. You don't deseve to waste your time with these people. You know the truth. Let them remain in the dark. THEY WANT IT TO.

That old saying: 'Don't throw pearls to the pigs', come in handy here.
Good luck.

Can I show some stuff... ? Aren't you in that movies ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QG2bbZcUxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LLewrlD5RE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWNY2_J3z4A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWNY2_J3z4A

So... what the meaning of that movies ? Measure what ? The noise around ?

Merit!

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I guess it could be profitable if I went into production. The demand is there. I'm usually 1-3 months back ordered, but I am slow and only build them on request. Some are repeat customers, but most are from "word of mouth" references. I am very grateful for the additional income to supplement my $630 a month Social security. Dell

SO YOU TELL IT KNOW !

" I am slow and only build them on request."

No oompa loompas... and YOU MELT THE GLUE!?

Better with oompa loompas there... melting the glue for you than doing yourself!

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

JP, I can certainly see your dilemma, and you have my sympathy. If that was the criteria I had to use to make a decision, I would be as confused as you.

With folks using fictitious names, and not providing educational backgrounds, or personal information, (except me) I cannot answer those questions either. But then, I speak honestly from my own field experience, and do not rely on the assumptions and opinions of others as being factual information.

Sorry, I can't help you, but here is a little hint to your problem.

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND" Dell

Hi Dell,
Thank you for your sympathy in my pathetic moment. You are correct... I am sure you would be confused as me if not for your using a different criteria to make a decision. You are also correct that these fictitious names do not provide educational backgrounds or personal information except for you. So what to do?

Well maybe this is my lucky day. I just noticed a couple of prominent members from the LRL proponent and the skeptic viewpoint have their real names posted. Yup, Carl-NC AKA Carl Moreland, and Dell Winders are both using their real names! But the personal profile section does not show educational background that would demonstrate their competency level in judging the usefulness of the circuitry in an LRL. However, there are hundreds of posts where we can search to find information that may shed some light on this. Yes, among the evil members who hide behind fictitious aliases, there are two dim lights still shining through the steamy mist of obscure and dubious BS. So off to the forum posts in search of the answers to the questions I asked...

Let's begin with my first question:
Who studied science, math, electronics and engineering for years to become knowledgeable in state of the art technical methods?

Hmmm... I can't find anything about Carl or you that shows either one of you attended schools of science, math, electronics or engineering for years. But I did find a number of interesting posts by Carl which could not have been made if he had not studied math and electronics for years. Here is an example ...

http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?p=74012

If you read this post, and Carl's other posts that led up to it in the same thread, you will see he identified a circuitry concern that the person asking for help had not considered, and provided all the details needed to make an excellent choice in components as well as telling what to watch out for in the circuit.

Now, we all know I am an evil scientific pretender hiding behind a fake alias, so if I say I attended a university that taught technical and scientific disciplines, we may have to discount it as total BS. Having said that, from the alleged university I attended, I learned in my alleged classes that what Carl is talking about in his post cannot be known unless he also attended classes that were at least as rigorous as the classes I attended. I can also assume he had to get the answers right in his tests before they would grant him a degree or certificate stating he is competent in his ability to understand advanced circuitry. But keep in mind... you may call me a bald-faced liar, because I am hiding behind an alias and I have not proven I attended any school of any kind.

Now, let's go in search of Dell Winders posts that would indicate his level of expertise in electronics...

Aha... here we have a post that tells us the answer: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?p=44340
Hmmmm... You describe yourself as "A Kentucky Hillbilly, with a 6th grade formal education in country schools".

Well, now this makes me wonder if maybe Carl is more qualified to determine how well electronic circuits work than you are. At least, it would seem that way until I read where you write that he is a scientific pretender. So I check all them hard to figger things Carl said about dv/dt and e^-t/tau. Guess what? He was right on every count. You could build a space shuttle using the kind of math and electronics formulas he uses and it would be right first time!

I guess what I am saying is sorry, but I gotta go with the guy who knows, not with the hillbilly who doesn't know. Or did I miss something? Should I have an open mind to consider the hillbilly/6th grade education knows more about what the electronics does than the person who has the training adequate to build cutting edge circuitry?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Steve in MS]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Steve, those are legitimate questions, but as you can see this a hecklers forum for closed minded idiots to exercise their prejudice mentality. Serious discussions of LRL are not allowed to progress. It is a waste of my time to try to answer questions here. Sorry, this is the wrong atmosphere to have serious discussions.

I participate here when I have time, because it is a wonderment to me to see grown, formally educated men, pretending to be Scientific, and go into such rages of childish rants when their ego's are threatened by someone of far less formal educational background. I do find some of the postings on Carl's, forum amusing. Dell

Hmmm, I can't agree with your reply here, who cares about whether there are skeptics here or not. I thought those were straight-forward questions,
seems to me LRLs are too esoteric in nature.
Even you stated
"don't believe anything you hear, or read and only half of what you see"
that would make you a skeptic on a lot of issues, I suppose.
LRLs are advertised to be a mechanical and/or electronic device to locate treasure when there is from what you and other dowsers here state more to it than that, something metaphysical in nature which if one thinks about it critically, that is a very strange arrangement.
Even if one person could use it successfully, many others would not be successful, simply because once again, they are dependent on metaphysics.
My conclusion is these devices cannot ever be in the mainstream, such as VLFs and PIs nor should they ever be advertised without the customer's knowledge of the paranormal aspect of them.