ICONOS Gold Detector

[Max]

Originally Posted by Clondike Clad

Just lookie at this
http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/...r800/index.dat

Hi,
thanks... I remember that pictures very well... but I made just rethoric question about the picture you posted, cause Dell say now he don't use hot melt glue... does not own a glue pistol etc... and sure will never admit he actually sold that unit we see at that link of above... Carl posted the famous pictures there.

I remember that old story and so many times he wrote he had nothing to do with that unit!

Kind regards,
Max

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Max, as I said,"

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND."

Your ignorance and dis-honest claims are showing.

I don't use hot glue in the products I build. Never have. Where do you see any? I don't even own a glue gun.

The shame is on you for not being truthful. Get real! Dell

Why are you faking your mug shot...whY WHY.....
Dell you talk like the snake oil men of old.
Today we call them scammers

[J_Player]

Perhaps it is time to tell the real story of the Dell Systems VR-800 Omnitron...

The real story of the VR-800 began to surface in the Geotech forum a couple of years back. After much evasiveness, Dell Winders finally admitted that he sold the vernell Electronics VR-800 LRLs under his own Dell Systems Omnitron label without telling his customers that it was one of the units he knew did not work. This is a long read, but the details can be found here:
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...6194#post56194

If you read that thread carefully, the history of the VR-800 will become apparent. Here is the summary of what appears to have happened in the early days of LRLs before Dell Winders began selling the Dell Systems VR-800:

Vernell Rose was a TV repairman trained at the Motorola school to repair televisions. When people were becoming interested in long range metal detectors, Vernon Rose made a simple signal generator with a 555 timer and frequency adjustment pots as seen in the photos of the VR-800. There was no power amplifier. A handheld receiver utilizing a coil was carried out in front of where the transmitter was set up with the intent to find a change in received signal when near a treasure. The VR-800 was shown to be a non-working device by Carl's report here: http://geotech.thunting.com/cgi-bin/...r800/index.dat

But wait... Vernell Rose made this circuit long before Carl tested the Dell Systems VR-800, as Dell pointed out. Before the name VR-800 was attached to this circuit, Dell Winders decided to use Vernell's LRL to attempt to win the Randi prize at a Florida beach by finding coins hidden in the sand. When the test was over, he failed miserably, demonstrating the Vernell circuit did not work to locate coins for him in the 1987 Randi test. Dell then admitted in this forum that the Vernell Rose "forward gauss" instruments were not practical to use after the time of the Randi test: "I purchased 2 of the Vernell, Forward Gauss instruments with electronic receivers and used them successfully from a boat, aircraft, and on land until operating conditions deteriorated affecting the reliability of the instrument making it impractical for my use in 1988".
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?p=54041

Sometime after the failed Randi test, Dell Winders accepted a shipment of Vernell's VR-800 locators branded as the Dell Systems (tm) Omnitron VR-800, and sold them to his customers. This is why we see Carl's VR-800 with the Dell Systems (tm) Omnitorn label.

The question arises: Why would Dell Winders sell thousands of dollars of worthless LRLs that he knew did not work to unsuspecting customers? Why not let Vernell do the dirty work of scamming the public? Dell gave an answer that could explain this: "Later, I assume to please me, and without my knowledge, Vernon had a batch of face plates printed with the "Omnitron", and "Dell" name on them. At least a dozen other manufacturers were calling their product an "Omnitron" or "Omini" some thing by that time, and one had applied for a copyright patent and received it against all my protest. So, it didn't really matter if Vernon Rose added the "Omnitron" name to his products for whatever reason, and I didn't have the heart to ask him not to use the face plates after he had already gone to the expense of having them made".
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?p=56337

What the hail does this mean? Dell sold thousands of dollars of worthless LRLS because he didn't have the heart to make Vernon Rose throw out the face plates with his name on them? He would rather have innocent customers pay for non-working LRLs instead of booting Vernell out of his shop? Is this getting a little hard to believe?

So, according to Dell, he felt sorry for Vernon Rose for spending money to make up a batch of Dell Systems nameplates without his knowledge, and he felt obligated to sell Dell Systems Omnitrons to unsuspecting customers, so Vernon Rose would not be out the cost of making new Vernell Electronics nameplates? Does this sound reasonable to you? Shouldn't Dell be insulted and mad at Vernon for trying to peddle off non-working crap that cost him the Randi prize?

Just suppose... the reason Dell sold the Dell Systems Omnitron VR-800 was because he could see the profits that could be made by selling junk that cost $50 to produce. Is this the reason he didn't throw Vernell Rose out, and decided to sell his crap with the Dell Omnitron label?

Nobody will know the answer to that question except Dell Winders. But one thing for sure, Vernon Rose put the hot melt glue on the perf-board you see in the pictures. Not Dell Winders.

There is no doubt a lot more to this story than what I told. Dell has carefully concealed most of his dealings with Vernell Electronics. If anyone knows more about the truth of the Dell Systems Omnitron VR-800, feel free to jump in and add your bit.

[Dell Winders]

JPLAYER, YOU twist & LIE, Twist & LIE, Twist & LIE! WHY?

Add to that, the fact is the VR-800, was not
even thought of at the time, and was never used to take the Randi test. That was a ficticious story and photo concocted by Randi & Carl, for the same slanderous purpose you are pursuing now. Create enough smoke, and people will believe there is a fire.

I hope viewers here are intelligent enough to consider the source of the smoke. Dell

[putrechigi]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hello.
I know other 3 persons that bought the Iconos. My detector is the first model with sensitivity check on the upper side. My Iconos is working OK. As i know one iconos has detected 4 -5 objectives. One other .... nothing and the third iconos working but as the owner said me he need long time to balance and to start to work.
But remember that Iconos can detect only old burried gold (as iconos says) but not fresh.
I want to believe that the "Iconos" company will send you a good detector
Regards

don't heat you it was alone to give a help to kirk chi and he has gotten him thanks

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

JPLAYER, YOU twist & LIE, Twist & LIE, Twist & LIE! WHY?

Add to that, the fact is the VR-800, was not
even thought of at the time, and was never used to take the Randi test. That was a ficticious story and photo concocted by Randi & Carl, for the same slanderous purpose you are pursuing now. Create enough smoke, and people will believe there is a fire.

I hope viewers here are intelligent enough to consider the source of the smoke. Dell

Who are you to talk when you don't use your own photo of your self.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

JPLAYER, YOU twist & LIE, Twist & LIE, Twist & LIE! WHY?
Add to that, the fact is the VR-800, was not even thought of at the time, and was never used to take the Randi test.

Of course VR-800 was was not thought of at the time. This name was not attached to Vernell's 555 timer based LRLs until later when you began selling them. We all know Vernell was making electronic LRLs without a name except the general name of "Forward Gauss" that he used to describe his signal generators without a power amplifier. You never admitted this, and even tried to confuse people into thinking some software engineers came up with this name, not Vernon Rose: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?p=53993

If you read further into that thread, you will find you failed to shed any light on how Vernon Rose came to use his "Forward Gauss" description of his line of signal generators. When I asked you directly "can you tell us who did invent this term", You answered "I have made it clear from the beginning on this forum that I don't know anything about electronics and therefore I have no idea what "Forward Gauss" means".

It seems to me you avoided answering my question, knowing very well it was Vernon Rose. Instead you simply dismissed the question with the excuse that you know nothing about electronics. In that whole thread, you will find nowhere that Dell Winders gave any help to solve the mystery of how the name "Forward Gauss" came to be used with Vernon Rose's signal generator LRLs, and was continued when his son in-law took charge of this business. In fact you interjected false information that was misleading, and would have directed our attention away from Vernon Rose if we had believed you.

The question comes to mind: How could Dell Winders not have known that Vernon Rose chose "Forward Gauss" to describe his LRLs when he was selling Vernon Roses LRLs under his own label so many years ago? You don't need to know anything about electronics in order to remember what your old business associate named the electronic junk he manufactured. What motive would Dell Winders have to keep Vernon Rose's name out of the forum discussion? Was this part of Dell's policy to attempt to bury any information about Vernon Rose which could lead to his shady dealings with Vernell Electronics?

But what about the Randi test?
The Randi test has everything to do with your early dealings with Vernon Rose. The Randi test was to be the test that legitimized Vernon Rose's signal generators to prove they worked as an LRL, so you could gain the lead over other LRL manufacturers who were fiercely competing for this new hot market. But when you failed to find the coins hidden in the sand, it began to look like you would not have the publicity needed to promote these gizmoes. Next, Vernon Rose shows up with your "Dell Systems" branded gizmoes that used the same electronics in the Randi test. It appears the option you chose was to call Randi and anyone else who refused to believe the LRL finds treasure a liar. Isn't this exactly what you did? Was there too much money to be lost if you were to cancel the marketing of the VR-800?

We know the photos of the VR-800 were taken after the Randi test. Of course the name "VR-800" was not thought of at the time you were arranging the Randi test, but the electronics for it existed, and you used it in the Randi test. From what I can see, it appears this name was not assigned to Vernell's detectors until afterwards when they began assigning different model numbers to differentiate the different versions of the 555 timer and attached apparatus. You will see Vernell Electronics still sells the VR-800 today at a reduced price compared to their more expensive versions such as the "MagnaCast 5000" https://vernellelectronics.safenetse...m/products.cfm
I can see I made at least one error in my earlier post. The VR-800 was sold with a pair of L-rods and ground probes, not a coil receiving antenna. Vernell's later variations switched to the coil receiver.

Tell us the truth, Dell...
So if you think this summary based on what you previously posted in this forum is incorrect, why not tell us more details of the real story behind your early dealings with Vernell Electronics, instead of calling me and everyone else a liar who thinks there's some truth buried in your old forum posts?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Hardi

It is exactly like if I say "THE PLACE WHERE PARKED MY BYCYCLE IS THE CENTER OF THE EARTH"

This is similar to the claim that there is a tea tray in orbit around the Earth.
For the moment my claim is unsubstantiated, but you have to prove me wrong.

Both of these claims clearly demonstrate that the onus is on the claimant to prove their case, and not on everyone else to disprove it.

So - what better way to prove that LRLs really work, than to take the $25,000 challenge. Or - if you are a dowser - to take the $1M challenge. So far no-one has managed to claim either prize. Which only goes to show that it's all hogwash.

[Dell Winders]

But what about the Randi test?
The Randi test has everything to do with your early dealings with Vernon Rose. The Randi test was to be the test that legitimized Vernon Rose's signal generators to prove they worked as an LRL, so you could gain the lead over other LRL manufacturers who were fiercely competing for this new hot market. But when you failed to find the coins hidden in the sand, it began to look like you would not have the publicity needed to promote these gizmoes. Next, Vernon Rose shows up with your "Dell Systems" branded gizmoes that used the same electronics in the Randi test. It appears the option you chose was to call Randi and anyone else who refused to believe the LRL finds treasure a liar. Isn't this exactly what you did? Was there too much money to be lost if you were to cancel the marketing of the VR-800?

We know the photos of the VR-800 were taken after the Randi test. Of course the name "VR-800" was not thought of at the time you were arranging the Randi test, but the electronics for it existed, and you used it in the Randi test.

From what I can see, it appears this name was not assigned to Vernell's detectors until afterwards when they began assigning different model numbers to differentiate the different versions of the 555 timer and attached apparatus. You will see Vernell Electronics still sells the VR-800 today at a reduced price compared to their more expensive versions such as the "MagnaCast 5000" https://vernellelectronics.safenetse...m/products.cfm
I can see I made at least one error in my earlier post. The VR-800 was sold with a pair of L-rods and ground probes, not a coil receiving antenna. Vernell's later variations switched to the coil receiver.

Wow! What a stupid imagination. You certainly aren't allowing fact, or truth to get in the way of your fictional report. There's certainly no evidence of rational thinking there.

WE KNOW?

If "WE" know so much, then, why did Randi & Carl, publish photos of Vernon Rose's VR-800, as the instrument I used in the Randi test? Think about it, and you will know who the real liars and schemers are on this forum.

THERE WAS NO INSTRUMENT BUILT BY VERNON ROSE, USED IN THE RANDI TEST. I WAS THERE, I KNOW.

So, why do you, Carl, Klondike, Qiaozhi, and Randi, continue to spew venomous lies. I have already told every one the truth, it can be proven in a court of law, and you are ignoring the facts to serve your own unscrupulous agenda that supports Carl, & Randi, in their lies.

Best Wishes. Dell

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

You certainly aren't allowing fact, or truth to get in the way... So, why do you, Carl, Klondike, Qiaozhi, and Randi, continue to spew venomous lies.

What you are calling lies are taken from what you posted as fact in this forum, Dell.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

WE KNOW?

Of course we know the photos of the VR-800 were taken after the Randi test. How could Carl or Randi take photos of an opened VR-800 before the test? Are you claiming they did take those photos before the Randi test?

We know Vernon Rose had made his electronic LRLs before that test because you told us he did. If this is a lie, then it is a lie you told, not us: "Vernon Rose is no doubt the original inventor. His instruments were fully electronic in 1979, and not intended for the market" http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...6296#post56296
You are now claiming you did not use anything built by Vernon Rose at the time of your Randi test?

When I say "We know", I am saying so because you told us it is a fact, or it can be easily deduced from what you told us. But for most of my summary, I stated "it appears...". This is because you have carefully concealed the details of your dealings in the matter of Vernell Electronics and Randi.

Tell us Dell, what is exactly the truth?
1. Did Vernon Rose build his electronic LRLs before your Randi test like you said or not?
2. If you did not use anything made by Vernon Rose to perform the Randi test, exactly what instruments did you use, Dell?
3. Did you sell thousands of dollars worth of VR-800 LRLs made by Vernell Electronics with your Dell Systems (tm) label or not?
4. What exactly were your hidden dealings with Vernon Rose and Vernell Electronics? What is the real reason you had Dell System labels on those Vernell LRLs you sold? Why did you sell them with your label, then refuse to take responsiblilty for the contents inside the box?
5. What proof do you have that would stand up in a court of law to prove Randi lied about you failing his test?
6. Why don't you go back and accept Randi's continued offer to you to claim his $1million? With today's technology, you could have a crowd of witnesses with inexpensive video cameras rolling to prove what really happens in a double blind test.

You have been quick to call us liars, and to say you have already told everyone the truth. But why does it sound like we only have heard half-truths? You never told the truth about the questions I asked. In fact you tried to conceal the answers, shifting the focus away from them. It is my belief you won't answer these questions either. Prove me wrong.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

Everything I have said is true. What you have deduced, assumed, presumed, rationalized, mis-construed, and otherwise taken out of context are your lies. That truthfully answers all the personal questions you have asked.

So allow me to ask a pertinent question of my own. What is your real name, physical address, telephone number, and employer. Dell

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Everything I have said is true. What you have deduced, assumed, presumed, rationalized, mis-construed, and otherwise taken out of context are your lies. That truthfully answers all the personal questions you have asked.

So allow me to ask a pertinent question of my own. What is your real name, physical address, telephone number, and employer. Dell

Dell how low are you going.
We know who you are.
SO WHY LIE.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Everything I have said is true. What you have deduced, assumed, presumed, rationalized, mis-construed, and otherwise taken out of context are your lies. That truthfully answers all the personal questions you have asked.

WRONG, Dell...
You haven't answered any of the questions I asked. Here they are again:

Tell us Dell, what is exactly the truth?
1. Did Vernon Rose build his electronic LRLs before your Randi test like you said or not?
2. If you did not use anything made by Vernon Rose to perform the Randi test, exactly what instruments did you use, Dell?
3. Did you sell thousands of dollars worth of VR-800 LRLs made by Vernell Electronics with your Dell Systems (tm) label or not?
4. What exactly were your hidden dealings with Vernon Rose and Vernell Electronics? What is the real reason you had Dell System labels on those Vernell LRLs you sold? Why did you sell them with your label, then refuse to take responsibility for the contents inside the box?
5. What proof do you have that would stand up in a court of law to prove Randi lied about you failing his test?
6. Why don't you go back and accept Randi's continued offer to you to claim his $1million? With today's technology, you could have a crowd of witnesses with inexpensive video cameras rolling to prove what really happens in a double blind test.

Can you answer them this time?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Dell Winders]

You haven't answered my questions.

If you know so much, then, why did Randi & Carl, publish photos of Vernon Rose's VR-800, as the instrument I used in the Randi test?

Answer the question truthfully (they are lieing) and you have the correct answers to your questions.


THERE WAS NO INSTRUMENT BUILT BY VERNON ROSE, USED IN THE RANDI TEST. I WAS THERE, I KNOW.

Were you there. Was Clondyke there? Was Carl there? If none of you were there, how would you know? Dell

[J_Player]

Hi Dell,
I see you still haven't answered any of the questions I asked. Here they are again:

Tell us Dell, what is exactly the truth?
1. Did Vernon Rose build his electronic LRLs before your Randi test like you said or not?
2. If you did not use anything made by Vernon Rose to perform the Randi test, exactly what instruments did you use, Dell?
3. Did you sell thousands of dollars worth of VR-800 LRLs made by Vernell Electronics with your Dell Systems (tm) label or not?
4. What exactly were your hidden dealings with Vernon Rose and Vernell Electronics? What is the real reason you had Dell System labels on those Vernell LRLs you sold? Why did you sell them with your label, then refuse to take responsibility for the contents inside the box?
5. What proof do you have that would stand up in a court of law to prove Randi lied about you failing his test?
6. Why don't you go back and accept Randi's continued offer to you to claim his $1million? With today's technology, you could have a crowd of witnesses with inexpensive video cameras rolling to prove what really happens in a double blind test.

Can you answer them this time?
Or should we assume I was right when I said "It is my belief you won't answer these questions either".

Best wishes,
J_P

[Fred]

I have been neutrally observing those posts,but really what i have seen is Dell spending time answering posts to call everything lies , but not giving any usefull information.
I would like to see those question answered too,Dell i think your writing energy could be better used.

regards,
Fred.

[Clondike Clad]

I like this so much that we can learn a lot if you answer.

You were asked to answer SO WHAT IS STOPPING YOU.


Tell us Dell, what is exactly the truth?
1. Did Vernon Rose build his electronic LRLs before your Randi test like you said or not?
2. If you did not use anything made by Vernon Rose to perform the Randi test, exactly what instruments did you use, Dell?
3. Did you sell thousands of dollars worth of VR-800 LRLs made by Vernell Electronics with your Dell Systems (tm) label or not?
4. What exactly were your hidden dealings with Vernon Rose and Vernell Electronics? What is the real reason you had Dell System labels on those Vernell LRLs you sold? Why did you sell them with your label, then refuse to take responsibility for the contents inside the box?
5. What proof do you have that would stand up in a court of law to prove Randi lied about you failing his test?
6. Why don't you go back and accept Randi's continued offer to you to claim his $1million? With today's technology, you could have a crowd of witnesses with inexpensive video cameras rolling to prove what really happens in a double blind test.


YOU know answer please answer his or should I say now our questions

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hello.
I know other 3 persons that bought the Iconos. My detector is the first model with sensitivity check on the upper side. My Iconos is working OK. As i know one iconos has detected 4 -5 objectives. One other .... nothing and the third iconos working but as the owner said me he need long time to balance and to start to work.
But remember that Iconos can detect only old burried gold (as iconos says) but not fresh.
I want to believe that the "Iconos" company will send you a good detector
Regards

You need to adjust every pistol and wait 1 minute for to stabilize all circuitry. During this time can occurs erratic. So, readjust other time and search. This is the explanation you need to readjust in compromise good sensibility and stability. Leave in very good sensibility point, but without erratics.

If beeping in an only area and compare not beeping and other, you're detected a conductive target.

I wish to test a Iconos!

Regards

Esteban

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Hardi

Amazing Detector !!!!?
Yet, I could not understand how they could cheat people like this? ... LRL manufactures...
LRL equal =>
# - 10 years waiting just to see if the stuff realy detects or not?
... Who can bury a peace of gold and wait for 10 years or more. It is ossible to say 10 years of being the gold underground is not
enough for that kind (e.g. Iconos, Minero,. etc..) it is open for this kind of physics... at that time there will be not manafacture to return
you the money.
# - LRLs not let you be frustrated...! They beep as you like, in any direction, for any thing located any where !!!! ..... and it is open to
justify the situation. For example, you can complain in any direction that there must be a peace of gold starting from 1m to 12 Km (as
Minero stated) Who knows? Who can say not? If say not.....come and dig it ?
OK . I will dig but just tell me how much..... 1m or 2m or 100s of meters?. Nobody can dig?
So, LRLs realy works untill otherwise proved? It is open for justification....It works but need special experiences, special training an so
on and so forth.
It is exactly like if I say "THE PLACE WHERE PARKED MY BYCYCLE IS THE CENTER OF THE EARTH"
Can anybody prove that is not? If say not please come and measure it? Who can measure it? may be someone like those who
convised peaple to buy there stuff? may be. So, it is fact untill otherwise proved !
# - LRLs costs not too make.....Less than 100 $, So why several thousands for buying... If they sell it for 200$, nobody will buy it!
Be aware with LRLs ....does not detect......expencive...... not scientfically proved.... may be dowsing in an other way...frau d education
... and .... and it also open !!!!

Hardi, no. Can be items stay in soil for 10 or less years, like coins and other lost objects.

[Clondike Clad]

Can you give us more info on you testing THANK
You seem to know a lot about other type of LRLs.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by Fred

I have been neutrally observing those posts,but really what i have seen is Dell spending time answering posts to call everything lies , but not giving any usefull information.

regards,
Fred.

To be sure, Dell has spent an entire lifetime, ducking, dodging, avoiding and side-stepping all questions and valid inquiries put to him, concerning his scam LRL products. He has actually honed his refusal to provide straight answers to valid questions, to a fine art. Dell is a master of at least two things, Wallet Mining and Avoidance of Issues (also known as telling the truth).

You see, true snake oil salesman, like Dell Winders, must always maintain the ruse no matter what he is faced with, even though we all know the truth of what he is hiding, and we know HE knows the truth. Nevertheless, the true LRL scammer must go to his grave, maintaining his "story". They know this is their best defense, should they ever end up in court.

You can ask questions of Dell Winders all you want, but he will never give you meaningful answer --only name-calling and BS rhetoric.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Theseus

To be sure, Dell has spent an entire lifetime, ducking, dodging, avoiding and side-stepping all questions and valid inquiries put to him, concerning his scam LRL products.

I understand, but as i said i am neutral here and to make my own opinion, i want to rely on facts and explanations directly from him.

The fact that so simple and badly built stuff is sold so expensive is not very encouraging though...

Regards,
Fred.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Clondike Clad

Can you give us more info on you testing THANK
You seem to know a lot about other type of LRLs.

I have buried 15 years a bronze disc 15 cm diameter. As I expected, mods. are for detect regular size items, no for small coins, for example. This bronze disc is detected from 4 meters. Is buried 30 cm depth. I sure no problem for treasure size targets.

Regards

Esteban

[Clondike Clad]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I have buried 15 years a bronze disc 15 cm diameter. As I expected, mods. are for detect regular size items, no for small coins, for example. This bronze disc is detected from 4 meters. Is buried 30 cm depth. I sure no problem for treasure size targets.

Regards

Esteban

Let us know what you find with the beast .

[Max]

Originally Posted by Esteban

I have buried 15 years a bronze disc 15 cm diameter. As I expected, mods. are for detect regular size items, no for small coins, for example. This bronze disc is detected from 4 meters. Is buried 30 cm depth. I sure no problem for treasure size targets.

Regards

Esteban

You sure have no problems. But others who have tryed to replicate your schematics at the end dropped all that stuff in the toilet and added plenty of water...

Who knows why ?

Kind regards,
Max