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#26
08-21-2014, 07:07 PM
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no salio la imagen
va de nuevo
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#27
08-22-2014, 10:15 AM
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Hi Detectoman
Surely buried metals "modulate" somehow a flow of electrons / ions. To get a working LRL need to "demodulate" this flow and to distinguish the gold it's necessary to "filter" the demodulated signal. The same thing for sense fresh buried gold but with more gain. I think that the "phenomenon" around fresh gold is very small. Best Regard
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#28
08-28-2014, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
I have seen this same discussion asking how does the LRL detect long-time buried metals since 2006 when I asked these questions in this forum. I remember conceding to Carl that buried gold is no different than fresh gold in the air. But I was wrong. New information has proven that long-time buried gold is not the same. In the past 8 years, we have received many answers, usually conclusions that treasure hunters made based on their experiences when using electronic and dowsing gizmos they take to the field for treasure hunting adventures. Now you are asking specific questions that are focused on the "phenomenon", which is a nebulous thing that has never been defined succinctly. Think about it... the "phenomenon" is a word that was first introduced by Alonso and Damasio at Mineoro, and was further promoted here by Esteban, Alonso-s nephew. But they never gave a scientific explanation of what the "phenomenon" actually is. They only described fragmented details to explain what they were talking about. Then they claimed to have invented a "substance classifier"... According to Mineoro: "...that is to say, a device which has the ability to "filter" just the "ion" or "ions" we needed to produce the phenomenom of "micro crash", "nano crash"or below. After years of researching and field experiences , it was born. It was invented not just as a classifier - "filter", but as a generator of positive "ions", receiver of negative "ions" in order to the short-circuit occur , and generator of electrostatic. Through electrostatic , the "ions" walk long distances , as if along an "invisible wire"... ... The "ion" itself generates that transporting energy. This explains the substance classifier. When the negative "ion" finds its twin of opposite polarity, they love each other so intensively, that when they get together they provoke a short-circuit autodestroying themselves. As in the Romeo and Juliet movie, both of them die, but the proof of their death is a flask of poison near them; in the same way, our "passionate ions" also leave a proof of their death in "emiting a crash", which generates an electrical signal so fast as nano, pico, femto or atto seconds, detectable in sensitive electronic circuits and projected for this aim. The classifier just filters the negative "ions", twin pairs of positivie "ions" produced by the classifier. To this phenomenom, Alonso (60) and Damásio (70) gave the name of "Substance Classifier" or just "Classifier". This denomination was necessary to differentiate from the expression "discrimination", commonly used in other systems of detection by electromagnetic waves. About the "classifier" it is good to inform that it is possible to manufacture classifiers for other metal and non-metal substances. It is possible to classify blood in its kinds; plants and its kinds; drugs and its kinds, etc. at long distance. That is why we announced in the media that we are talking about " A MODERN INVENTION". Note that in the Mineoro text, they say "the phenomenon of "micro crash", "nano crash"or below". So they are saying the the "phenomenon" is an electronic noise made by an ion becoming neutral when it short circuits with an oppositely charged ion. Then they go on to prove they don't know what they are talking about by publishing an animated illistration showing a column of gold ions rising into the air 7.21 feet above buried gold.... While the Mineoro explanation of the "phenomenon" does not seem very scientific, they are talking about ionic activity with metal ions hovering in a column of air above buried gold, which they claim their locators detect in the "substance classifier" section of their detector. However, real science has proven there are no ions hovering 7 feet above a treasure as they claim. And we also know the apparatus which Mineoro calls a "substance classifier" is a sealed chamber that could not come into contact with ions outside the chamber even if they did exist in the air. So we have proof that the Mineoro idea of the "phenomenon" is not true. But what is the "phenomena", if not a cloud of gold ions in the air? I read every kind of conflicting explanation from molecular vibrations in the AF range to VHF radio transmissions. Even mysterious signal lines that nobody has proven exist outside their own mind. If a physical thing is real, then we should be able to measure it accurately and in a repeatable manner, even if the thing is small. Consider the extremely small RF energy that travels in long range data communications. Real engineers build real receivers that can always detect and decode these extremely small-power data transmissions without fail. And the results are repeatable, and the tiny amount of energy in the radio transmission can be measured accurately in a repeatable manner. Have you ever wondered why nobody ever built professional grade instruments to measure the alleged "phenomenon"? This alleged "phenomenon" is supposedly a physical entity, which must therefore be measurable, unlike nebulous entities such as a philosophy or a religion which cannot be measured with physical instruments. From what I see, this entire discussion is to determine how to detect an unknown physical "phenomenon" using instruments which are specialized for detecting precise frequencies with very narrow bandwidths, and often have adjustable controls to keep the tuning within the desired narrow band range. What is missing? Shouldn't a designer know what he is trying to detect before he builds an instrument to detect it? Wouldn't it be easier if a designer would identify the exact nature of the alleged "phenomenon" before setting out to detect it? Think about it... There are two approaches to finding a solution to an engineering problem. One is to identify what you want to measure, then design and build an appropriate apparatus that will measure what you want. Or you could not take the trouble to find out what you want to measure, and spend years of trial and error with hopes that you might accidentally stumble onto something that works. And still not know exactly what you are measuring. This raises the question: But what is the "phenomenon", anyway? The people who describe it say it is an area where a long time buried treasure that is measurable. The confusion starts when we hear all kinds of unfounded stories, such as clouds of metal ions rising up into the air, ions shooting in a signal line, molecular vibrations etc. These explanations are generally in conflict with each other, so the reader has to decide which theory he will believe before he sets out to make any experiments. And most of these alleged properties of the "phenomenon" have been proven to be false by real engineers who use real instruments to measure what the hobbyist claims is happening at the location of the alleged "phenomenon". This immediately shows that most of these theories are proven pseudoscience that some hobbyist just made up because he assumed his idea is correct, without making a proper test and see if he is right or not. Now, if most of the theories we read about the "phenomenon" are proven false, then how can we know what the "phenomenon" is? After all, we see some positive results from many people who claim to find the "phenomenon". How can we find out what it actually is? The answer to that question was already provided a number of years ago by an Australian researcher who discovered there are many mechanisms under the ground that move gold around. We also have a large body of claims from metal detectorists who claim they experienced a "halo" effect which is described to be very similar to some descriptions of the "phenomenon". The detectorists never could prove their experience was real, because any attempt to dig the dirt from the treasure area was observed to destroy the "halo" effect. But The Australian researcher Frank Reith did prove what he discovered. He used expensive scientific instruments in a university laboratory to show positive proof that he found gold ions moving in the ground, sometimes creating new nuggets in locations where they didn't exist before. His proof of his discoveries was not necessary to launch the commercial branch of his organization to become a multi-million dollar international company. He only needed to tell the field technicians a method to measure metal ions in the ground. His proof is only valuable to researchers who want to know how subterranean ions are able to move and become detectable. Frank Reith's work was focused on determining where metal and ore is located by measuring the trace ions which he dug from test pits usually around mine locations, or in agricultural areas. As treasure hunting hobbyists, we can look at his work and we will immediately discover that he has mapped out many chemical reactions which happen under the ground, with detailed explanations of how these reactions will decompose gold and other metals, and transport them to other locations, over long periods of time. Is this beginning to sound like long-time buried treasure stories? Well it is... but not made-up stories that he assumed are probably correct... he proved he was correct in the laboratory. He also published many documents which detail his research and discoveries. These are free to anyone who wants to read them. Is this chemical activity that Frank Reith describes the "phenomenon"? In my opinion it is the basis for what people call the "phenomenon". But I can't prove that, because nobody agrees on what the "phenomenon" is defined to be. What I can say is there are a number of physical consequences that occur when buried gold or silver begin to corrode and leach into the soil. These physical consequences are like secondary effects which will come when the original process of metal corroding begins. To me, there is no "phenomenon". The "phenomenon" was already proven to be false, along with the design concept of the "substance classifier". What Mineoro and Esteban told us about the details of the "phenomenon" was a big mistake. But there is something happening at the location of buried metal after it has been buried long enough. I can describe exactly what happens according to well documented real science. And if anyone has the intellect and electronic skills, they can devise real electronics to locate the areas where there is an anomaly that might be caused by buried metal. A warning about my next post: I AM NOT DESCRIBING "THE PHENOMENON". Even though there are many real physical phenomena involved in this process, do not degrade the work of these scientists by calling their discoveries the "phenomenon". They are real scientist who used real instruments to prove their discoveries are correct. They never tricked any of their clients or used any fake transmitters to fool people to make them believe that fake methods are working. My next post is focused on the actual mechanisms by which gold corrodes when it is under the ground for a long enough time, and how an anomaly is created a few inches below the surface of the soil where it is buried. It takes many pages to describe all the details of this mechanism, so I only talk about the parts that are important to a treasure hunter. But I will leave links that you can check if you want to know more about how it works. You will also see some information about cosmic rays and gamma detecting that Dr. Bickel taught me from his work in locating gold from satellites and airplanes. See the post below. Best Wishes, J_P
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#29
08-28-2014, 02:49 AM
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Not the "phenomenon"
The "phenomenon" was proven false... there is no column of ions hovering in the air above a buried treasure for us to detect.
But there is something more valuable in the locations where gold and silver are buried. This dissertation is based on the work that scientists from the Australian National University in Canberra discovered. The soil is full of different constituents from various mineral materials to decaying organic matter. Living bacteria and other organisms are found in the earth soil at the surface and below, even at depths of several miles below the surface. This is where the story of long-time buried gold starts. Some of the microbes in the ground are able to live in conditions which are considered toxic to any living organism. These are called extremophiles because they live and thrive in these toxic conditions. Among these microbes, some of them can dissolve gold by secreting cyanide, which attacks the surface of a metallic gold object. The microbes, in turn can ingest the gold solution and carry their gold away from the gold surface as they continue on their journey through the soil. But they can also leave non-metallic gold solutions behind them in the soil, where they are free to mingle with other chemical ions. We know from the soil samples taken that the basic form of dissolved gold is cyanoaurate. And we know that most dissolved gold ions are associated with cyanide complexes which involve other metals and non-metals. Other microbes in the ground can convert dissolved gold ions into metallic gold. The microbes do this by transferring electrons (negatively charged particles) to the dissolved metal ions. That process, in turn, converts the non-metallic dissolved gold leaving behind solid gold deposits. When electrons are transferred onto the dissolved gold it changes its state from ionic gold, Au+3, to metallic gold, which has no charge. This transfer of charge is how the bacteria gets it's energy, similar to the way we get some of our energy from the oxygen we breathe in the air. These microbes live in all parts of the ground, but will grow into colonies in places where there is more metal for them to consume. They usually eat other metals which include vanadium, manganese, iron, chromium, copper, selenium, molybdenum, tin, and others. But if there is sufficient gold in their vicinity, they eat gold too. Of particular interest is the bacteria "Bacillus cereus", which grows into colonies in large amounts where gold is buried. Some mining exploration companies look for high counts of this bacteria to indicate where there is gold under the ground. But they are not the only microbes which dissolve gold or cause it to convert back to metallic form. There are other species including fungus varieties that play a role in this process. When gold is dissolved by a microbe, the gold may be many hundreds of meters below the surface, or may be near the surface. Yet the ions of dissolved gold slowly travel upward toward the surface of the ground. This transit toward the surface may take many thousands of years, depending on how deep the gold is buried. The methods by which the gold ions move are several. The most notable influence is the rain cycles which cause water to absorb into the soil, then slowly dry, which creates a moisture gradient that in turn causes a capillary action in the ground which tends to draw dissolved minerals upward toward the surface. At the same time there are microbes which have ingested gold ions and are also travelling through the ground. Their activity is expected to increase when the soil has a higher moisture content. At this point, we should examine what is happening with the dissolved gold. The amount of gold which a microbe can dissolve is an extremely tiny amount, due to the tiny size of the microbes. The amount is so small that the surface of the gold that was attacked does not even appear to be damaged. The microbes are eating gold at the molecular and atomic level in some cases. And along with the gold, they also dissolve tiny amounts of copper and silver or whatever other metals are alloyed in the gold that they attack. All of these metals become ions in combination with the cyanide that corroded the metal. In the case of gold, it is converted to the basic cyanoaurate. But because of other metals present, it will usually morph into a cyanide complex with several metals and more often, non-metals. One example from the Australian gold fields where gold is found in iron ore locations will produce complexes that contain copper ferrocyanide (Cu2[Fe(CN)6]) as well as thiocyanate from the sulphur which contains the gold ore. These are only a couple of examples of many chemicals that are usually present in these complexes. As treasure hunters, we don't care about such things as sulphur in gold ore, but it is important to know that even buried treasure metals will form cyanide complexes due to all the contaminates which are in the vicinity of the buried gold, as well as the other metals alloyed with the gold. These complexes of gold, cyanide and other metals and non-metals are free to interact with other chemicals that may also be ionized below the surface of the ground. The actual concentration of gold within these complexes is in the parts per trillion to the parts per billion range if the gold has been in the ground for a long enough time to allow bacteria to attack it, and for the resulting ions to disperse and begin rising upwards toward the surface of the ground. In laboratory test conditions small tubs of soil were seeded with gold-eating bacteria that had pure gold pellets in the bottom, and the soil was kept wet. At the end of a month they measured 30ppm of gold ions in the tubs. But this is rarely found in natural settings where the readings are usually under 10 parts per billion of gold ions. To give a frame of reference, if we take a sample of soil that weighs 1Kg and has 10 parts per billion of gold ions in it, the free gold ions would weigh 0.01 mg. Also note, that in natural conditions, the buried metals have had thousands of years for microbes to attack the gold, and thousands of years for rain cycles and capillary action to draw ions upward in a column above the buried gold. For large ore bodies, even if they are low-grade ores, the large-scale movement of trace ions can add up to large amounts of metal moving through the ground. Some of the largest gold deposits are believed to be secondary deposits that were formed by ions moving, and bacteria aiding in converting the ions back into solid gold of unusually high purity. Now we can examine the part of the ground where there is expected some unusual electrical activity. Suppose a gold treasure ia buried a meter deep for 100 years. We might expect that there are gold ions leaching into the soil and rising upward in a column through the soil above it. As the ions move upward, they eventually come near the surface. Then something strange happens. At a depth of 10-30 cm (4-12 inches) the ions become neutralized into solid gold, in the form of tiny microscopic gold particles. They no longer are ions. If these tiny micro-gold particles ever reach the surface, they are lost to erosion and end up in the ocean, or can be caught into the wind where we find the same parts per per trillion of gold particles in the air as we can measure in the ocean. But take note: The ions are fully neutralized metal particles by the time they rise above the depth of 10cm in the ground. There is nothing to detect after that. This means any long range detection is accomplished by means of the gold ions which are deeper than 10cm in the ground. But how do you ions detect buried in the ground? The way Frank Reith did it was to take soil samples back to the laboratory and use expensive instruments to assay and measure the ions. But we can't do that. We want a quick indicator now, not next week when the lab finishes their work. This means we must find another way to locate this area of gold ions that is not expensive, and can be done on the spot. What we are looking for is the treasure which is too deep to find with a metal detector, and the only thing working in our favor is if the treasure was buried long enough, it might have a column of gold ions leaching from it that follows a vertical path in the ground. So how do we detect a column of ions in the ground? If you read back in my explanation, you will remember that when a bacteria attacks the gold surface with cyanide, it causes an electrical exchange which transfers an electron away from a gold atom at the time when it is corroded, to create a gold ion (Au+3). This is an extremely tiny electrical event that involves only one electron. However, many gold atoms are being corroded by the bacteria and by its neighbors who are competing for some of the gold to consume. The problem is this electrical activity is too deep in the ground for anyone to detect. But now let's look at the other end of that vertical ion column... it ends 10 cm below the surface of the ground. The column may be 96 cm tall in this case, but in the top 20 cm (between the depth of 10cm and 30cm), the ions begin to neutralize and become metallic gold. We have the same amount of electrical activity happening for the gold ions that happened down below at the treasure, only this time the electrons are being transferred back to the gold ions to make them solid particles. But the amount of electrical activity is the same as when the gold dissolved. The nice part is this activity is happening in a cylinder that is 20cm tall and buried only 10 cm deep -- much closer to the surface, and easier to detect. But still, how do you detect microscopically small electrical events like this --- and from a distance? Let's look closer at the ions neutralizing within this 20 cm tall cylinder of soil: Below 30cm, the gold ions are moving either in the bodies of microbes or travelling through the soil as free ions, attaching to various cyanide complexes in combination with other metal ions. There is not much measurable electrical activity going on here. But when they enter this 20 cm cylinder area near the surface, the ions begin to pick up extra electrons and become stable metallic gold particles. This does not happen all of a sudden. A gold ion may pick up an electron and become a particle, then revert back to an ion several times before it finally becomes a metallic gold particle permanently. Also note that a gold ion or particle may take several years travelling through the 20cm cylinder of soil before it reaches the top where it becomes permanently a gold particle. This means a single gold ion in this region may have several electrical events before it becomes a stable neutral particle. The visibility of a single gold ion thus becomes multiplied to appear as more electrical events than a single ion which only changes to a metal particle one time. Now let's look at the gold ion population in this 20 cm active cylinder of soil: First, take note that the ions in this active area are dispersed so they are spread out throughout the cylinder of soil soil, where they represent a large area and volume rather than a small volume such as we see in the actual buried treasure metal. This, in effect makes the detectable area appear larger than the treasure you are hunting for. Suppose the 20cm length cylinder has a diameter which makes the soil inside weigh exactly 1kg. If the ion concentration is 1 part per billion, then we have .001 mg of gold ions in the cylinder that are in the process of becoming neutralized. This process of becoming neutralized is more complex than is immediately apparent. It is a very slow process which is very easy to upset. In fact there is an equilibrium established for ions becoming neutral, and for metal particles returning from neutral to the ion state. And there is also a gradient whereby we find more ions at the lower end of the cylinder and more metal particles at the upper end. Yet there are some metal particles reverting back to ions even at the upper end that contains mostly particles. And you can be certain that there are several species of microbes who are participating in this ionic activity, acting as a catalyst which helps to convert ions to metal, and metal to ions. The equilibrium of electronic activity in both directions within this active cylinder can be disturbed by outside influences, such as current flows and surges in the soil, magnetic disturbances, electrical storms, solar activity, man-made RF energy, mechanical disturbances, chemical changes in the ground, and a few other events which disturb the equilibrium of electrical activity. These disturbance can cause a sudden rise in the electrical activity of the ions, or can cause the electrical activity to diminish or stop. But after the disturbance stops, the equilibrium gradually returns to it's normal state within this electrically active zone. There are also many natural external influences which do not disturb the equilibrium, but help establish and maintain it. For example, there is a relatively uniform supply of cosmic rays which act as an ionizing force within the electrically active zone. Since they do not come in sudden bursts, they contribute to the steady equilibrium of the electrical activity. In fair weather, there are many other natural forces which also contribute, such as the normal telluric currents in the ground, and the magnetic field which acts more or less steadily on the polar molecules and ions at the time when they are making electron exchanges. Nuclear events involving collisions within the cylinder are also forces which don't usually upset this equilibrium. A special external force is the atmospheric electric field, which acts on this chemical/electrical activity. Measurements have shown that there is an average of 2000 amps flowing through the earth's atmosphere due to the voltage gradient in the air, which measures around 150 volts per meter altitude near the surface. This works out to about 4 pico-amps average flowing through each square meter of ground surface. This is a primary source of power that drives the electrical activity under the earth's surface as well as electrical activity in the atmosphere. The earth, being more negative than the ionosphere is leaking electrons into the atmosphere, which are replenished in locations where there are thunderstorms. This atmospheric voltage gradient and flow of electrons tends to keep the gold in the ion form, while variations in the atmospheric charge will have an influence on the equilibrium of the ionic activity. The influence from the atmospheric charge is not direct. There must be intermediary agents such as dust particles to carry the charge between the ground and aerosols or other debris in the air which can accept electrons. A good deal of this charge is transferred through the foliage - leaves on trees and other plants that collect dust and organic particles. Plants which have any moisture content are essentially at ground potential, so the atmosphere sees them as the ground, where charges can be transferred directly to the leaves or dust particles which blow onto and off of them. There are also some atmospheric conditions like dust storms that can cause the atmosphere to become very conductive, which will cause the atmospheric voltage gradient to drop much lower than normal. And, of course we know that thunderstorms can even reverse the polarity of the voltage gradient locally. But even in fair weather, the strength of the atmospheric charge does play a role in the electrical activity of the ions, and thus the ability to detect them. In any case, this transfer of charge between the ground and the atmosphere results in moving currents in the ground called telluric currents, which travel in subterranean paths at various depths. some of this current is involved in the electro-chemical activity at the treasure site, and has an influence on how this electrical activity occurs, including the alignment of polar molecules which are reacting. In fair weather conditions (without any unusual disturbances to the equilibrium of ionic electrical activity in the active soil area), we expect that the cylinder of soil would be making a very faint steady electronic noise, considering the 0.001 mg of gold ions spread out in the cylinder. An attempt to measure this noise would not show much other than electronic noise that is hard to find behind the background noise. We should also be aware that our treasure location is not the only anomaly where there is unusual electrical activity near the ground surface. The ground is full of buried objects, while mostly natural, treasure hunting areas are usually littered with all kinds of trash left by civilizations before us. Who knows what other metals are also buried and causing other chemical-electrical anomalies near the treasure you are looking for? And also be aware there are a number of natural sources of electrical anomalies, beginning with noise caused by telluric currents trying to flow through areas where the underlying rock formations change, and the soil conductivity and mineralization changes. Underground water, and locations where there were chemical spills also can cause anomalies. Locations where there are large deep plant roots, and even locations that were used to locate a privy in the days when there was no plumbing. With all this competing electrical noise, we need to find a way to measure this treasure ionic activity, and to know that what we are measuring is coming from gold ions rather than some other source of noise in the area. And we need to do this from a distance. This is where the secondary effects become important. The secondary effects are the interactions that the electrical activity from the gold ions make with other forces found in the vicinity of the ion column, and more importantly, artefacts left from the electrical activity of the gold ions. To begin, we need to use a technique to make the electrical activity more visible to electronic instruments. So far all we have is an anomaly of faint chemical-electrical activity near the surface of the ground. It is only natural to look at radio techniques, since we are trying to set up a remote electronic detection of the unknown electrical anomaly area. But we have no carrier wave to receive, only some distant random noise that is hard to measure from the background noise. So ordinary radio techniques won't work. Now let's take a closer look at this electronic noise that comes from gold ions at the treasure location. What kind of noise is this? It comes from electrons attaching to a gold ion, or from electrons leaving a gold atom that is changing into an ion. But this electron movement also involves a cyanide complex that includes several other chemicals besides gold. For example, sulphur, copper, silver, possibly iron and a number of other metals and non-metals. The electrical consequences amount to a lot of random noise in very small amounts. But remember, there are external forces that can upset the equilibrium of electronic noise to make it increase. Considering we have 0.001 mg of ions causing electronic noise, we could cause a disturbance which causes more of the ions to gain an electron, which would cause an increase of electrical noise at the time when the disturbance occurs. The disturbance could be from EM energy, a magnetic surge, an electrical surge in the ground, or a few other methods. However, because there is only 0.01 mg of ions, you must be careful not to make a disturbance so large that it saturates the ions and causes them to completely convert to metal particles. If that happens, then the electronic activity will stop and you won't be able to detect anything (plan to come back another day and try again). Depending on what polarity you like, you could make a disturbance that causes the metal particles to revert back to ions, and check to see how the results compare to the opposite polarity. In practice, it is difficult to choose what polarity you want the ions to move to without carrying around extra equipment to cause this kind of disturbance. The easier way is to use a method that sends the disturbance from a distance, and that usually means you are broadcasting some kind of EM wave. Already we see LRL experimenters using "stimulator coils" which are VLF transmitters that send ground-penetrating RF to the search areas. These have been reported to be effective in disturbing the electrical activity of the gold ions. There are also other methods that some experimenters use, which also involve other forms of EM waves and beams being sent to the search area. From what I have seen, not all of the pertinent methods of upsetting the equilibrium of ionic activity have been utilized yet. We also need a technique to discriminate the gold ion area so we can recognize ionic activity from gold ions and not become confused by ionic activity from other sources we are not interested in. Is there anything unique about the electrical noise these chemicals make when transferring electrons that would distinguish them from other noises we don't want to detect? A whole field of science says there is. The chemical reactions from gold ions and the cyanide-metal complexes have spectrographic signatures that can be easily identified when using appropriate equipment for spectal analysis. This does not have to take the form of laboratory spectrometers, but can be a smaller version built into a treasure locator. The signatures for gold ions and all of the other compounds involved in the cyanide complex at our treasure site are readily available online to anyone who wants to look them up. Some notes about misunderstandings from people who believe in the "phenomenon": 1. There is no cloud of ions hovering in the air above a buried treasure for you to detect. 2. The alleged "phenomenon" is not a high energy electronic activity. It is very low energy, as proved by the extremely sensitive instruments that must be used to detect it, and the tiny background electrical noise which hides the electrical activity of the ions. 3. Secondary effects can have a lot of energy, but not the electronic activity of the ions. There is not enough electrical energy in the 0.001 mg of gold ions to make any serious energy. But there are many kilowatts available from telluyric currents, lightning storms, magnetig surges and other natural forces around the tiny ionic activity. In some cases, the area of the ionic anomaly acts as an amplifier. Even though it is a small area of the ground, it can cause the atmospheric field to deform depending on what other em energies are present, and telluric currents can cause the detectable attributes of the anomaly to become more visible to instruments designed to detect it. 4. In my discussions with Dr. Bickel, he told me his gamma detector was designed to detect gamma rays that were given off from gold ions or atoms when a nuclide collided and caused a stable isotope of gold 196 to pass into his scintillator sensor. He was not intrested in cosmic rays, as he considered them to be noise. He complained about the noise in the atmosphere and said it was important to measure iostopes at only certain times of the day when the solar activity was not too severe. Also, he made many statements to say that he cannot detect gold until it was buried at least 50 years. He did not like treasure hunters, and he did not know anything about the microbe action that I described above, because it was not discovered yet. From what we now know, we can deduce that the nuclides which come from the core of the earth and collide with gold in the ground are probably colliding mostly with free gold ions in the soil, which have migrated and dispersed to a much larger area than the original gold ore that the ions came from. I would guess he was mostly mapping the locations where these migrating ion columns of gold are. But that's just my guess. Some links: Research document by Frank Reith: http://crcleme.org.au/NewsEvents/New...USIMMReith.pdf Microbes manufacture gold nuggets: http://www.geotimes.org/sept06/NN_Microbes.html Gold microbe science proof: http://aem.asm.org/content/67/7/3275.full.pdf Pretty pictures of gold manufactured by microbes: http://aem.asm.org/content/67/7/3275.full.pdf More pretty pictures of gold by microbes: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0802103513.htm Living microbes eating gold 3 miles deep 75 degrees C: http://web.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev32_3/amazing.htm 30 species of microbes help form natural gold: http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...15_283189.html Dr. Bickel and his isotope detector: http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...ad.php?t=11342 Gamma spectra of stable gold isotope: http://www.radiochemistry.org/period.../pdf/au196.pdf This is where my dissertation ends. If you were expecting a circuit diagram, too bad. Go back and read the text and get some real facts that you can use to design your own circuits. In any case, hope this post helped. Best Wishes,  J_P
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#30
08-28-2014, 10:37 AM
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Hi J_Player,
Welcome back, you did a great job with theese posts. I can only add that no scientist has buried a piece of gold, he waited a few months and then made some measurements. Sounds very convincing work done by the bacteria but I'm not sure that their intervention is noticeable after a month or 2. What I think is very interesting and that struck me right from the start is the compass effect, that it can be studied without waiting for months or even years. I think the phenomenon is the result of a kind of modulation of the compass effect by the metal buried. Best Regards
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#31
08-28-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
You are wrong. Frank Reith did. He buried gold in soil that had gold-eating bacteria, then he waited a few months and then measured the gold ions that were dissolved. And he also buried gold in soil that had no live gold-eating bacteria. When he made his measurements, the original gold he buried was still in the ground, but part of it was dissolved. But in the ground with no gold-eating bacteria, there was little or no dissolved gold measured. You can read about his work for free. He did not hide his work in a secret bunker, and he published reports about what he discovered in his experiments and his work. Here is an exerpt from one of the many experiments he did with buried gold.... "...microcosm experiments with samples from the three sites were conducted. The microcosms with gold bearing soil or regolith materials were incubated field-fresh, (with a living microflora) vs. sterilised (with a dead microflora). Water logged soil and regolith microcosms were incubated under oxic and anoxic. Aliquots of the waters were taken over time (70-90 days) and analysed for gold. Field-fresh microcosms solubilisation of the gold occurred generally after 20-30 days of incubation. Up to 3 ppm of gold in solution was measured in experiments where gold had been added as gold pellets. In sterilized microcosms, very little or no gold was detected in the solution..." The 3ppm of gold ions he measured 70-90 days later in this test is typical of what you might find in a treasure hunting field for long-time buried gold. This particular test shows that the gold-eating microbes were very active during the 70-90 day period when the soil was wet. He made many more experiments with gold he buried, and they are all free to read. About what you think the phenomenon is and compass effect, you are wrong. There is no "phenomenon". It was proven false by real science that showed the whole concept was wrong from the start. I think there are many physical phenomena involved, not a false "The Phenomenon" as Alonso and Esteban tried to convince us to believe. The compass effect I am not so sure of. I know that telluric currents usually flow in the same direction as the magnetic field lines, and both the magnetic field and telluric currents have fluctuations in their strength which might be confused to appear as modulation. Also, consider that the magnetic field is not horizontal unless you are measuring it near the equator. The direction of the magnetic field has a vertical inclination at most parts of the earth, which makes me wonder about the role of telluric currents, which do not show any vertical inclination. Best Wishes, J_P
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#32
08-28-2014, 01:18 PM
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Pretty hard to beat the human body and an L-rod when it comes to receiving target information. I call the sensation I receive the "ion buzz". Many people describe it as a cool breeze which is the same sensation you receive when you place your hand near a negative ion generator.
The lines of force between the two fields (target and human) which many refer to as the "signal line" create a channel, sort of a magnetic highway. The human brain is probably the biggest obstacle. It is extremely efficient at filtering out almost everything including background levels.
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#33
08-28-2014, 03:02 PM
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Hi J_Player
We know that the phenomenon is very complex, bacteria have no doubt play an important role with regard to the gold and maybe could also act against the isotopes of gold, but what is known about the other metals (silver, copper, etc.)? Frank Reith made chemical / biological Measures on the ground but I do not think he measures changes in the magnetic field and electric field. Perhaps the scientist who most approached the understanding of the phenomenon was Louis Rota who also claimed that it was possible to "stimulate" a fresh buried metal buried such a way that it could be revealed at a distance. Best Regards
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#34
09-03-2014, 02:27 AM
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hello J_player, i´m very jealous by you return
hola J_playes yo estoy gustoso por tu retorno ya me tenias preocupado, tal ves acabas de llegar de una larga luna de miel de dos años jajaj
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#35
09-06-2014, 09:01 AM
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2. What is known about other metals? Other metals including silver, copper, mercury, tin, manganese, magnesium lead, cadmium, aluminum, and nearly every other metal element known are consumed by microbes in similar ways to the microbes that consume gold. Most of these metals are dissolved by the same cyanide-secreting bacteria that attack gold. But some of these metals are attacked by microbes which use different mechanisms to corrode a metal, or to convert metal ions to metallic form, or to other compounds. This is a huge industry which is being researched and funded by many governments for the purpose of toxic waste management, to clean up soil that is contaminated with metal poisons. Some of these bacteria are even able to clean radioactive contamination from the soil by removing heavy radioactive metals or converting them to relatively safe compounds. Many of the metals which are not important to treasure hunters are very important in agricultural areas. The commercial branch of Frank Rieth's organization does millions of dollars of business measuring the metal ions in farmland soil, to help the farmers to know what minerals are deficient for the plants that they want to grow. 3. You are correct. Frank Rieth's work was not in the magnetic and electronic field. He was focused on the microbiology of the soil to try to learn what these microbes were doing to buried metals. His scope of work included the chemical conversions and electron exchanges as well as the biological mechanisms which caused these chemical conversions. The electrical and magnetic principles which are pertinent to these chemical changes in the soil have been documented for decades. Anyone who cares to read about magnetism and electrical properties of the soil will find this information easily available online, and even more detail available from the geology department of a major university. What Frank Rieth did was to provide the missing information of how gold ions enter the soil, and how they form columns of ions above a gold item that has been buried for long enough. Without his work, nobody would know to try applying known electrical/magnetic principles to exploit some of the secondary effects of this chemical reaction. Also consider, he measured the ion concentration of gold in the soil, and he mapped the location where the chemical action of converting ions to metal particles will happen, which has never been done before him. These are the final keys that any person who believes in electronics and magnetism can use to build a working long range locator. And those who believe in superstitions, and unproven science or principles that were previously proven wrong, will be quick to avoid the evidence and test results that were produced by Frank Rieth, geologists, and the writers of the electronic and magnetic physics textbooks available in the universities. 4. Louis Rota was an earlier experimenter who did some fascinating work. He did not have the advantage of new facts that have been shown in recent decades. But if he had today's knowledge available at the time of his experiments, I believe he would have gone much farther in perfecting his methods, and eliminating much of the unnecessary time consuming work he did. I doubt Louis Rota understood "the phenomenon". There is no such thing. "The phenomenon" was promoted after his death, and was proven to be false information from the Mineoro factory owners. What Louis Rota did understand is how he could combine metals to cause the effects he described. If you read all his writings, you will see he did not understand the mechanisms or physics involved in producing his results. He only had clues about the principles by which his results came. Also note, his results were not always consistent. These inconsistencies are another problem that could be solved if he understood the principles that were causing the results that he observed. Best Wishes, J_P
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#36
09-06-2014, 09:46 AM
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It's good to be back, but only for awhile. I have other obligations for my time. Hola deterctoman, Me gusta mi retorno, pero sólo por un corto tiempo. Me gustarÃ*a también otra larga luna de miel.  Best Wishes, J_P
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#37
09-06-2014, 10:04 AM
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Hi j_Player
Is beyond my ability to search on the scientific basis of the "phenomenon". In the case of my LRL surely it is a variable electric field as the sensor is a rod antenna and the sensitivity increases by lengthening the antenna, also only works with a resonant circuit at the entrance formed by 2 or 3 turns, and a capacitor of 22pF. As I said in the thread "LRL from Italy" the human body also comes into play by increasing the sensitivity and unlike other LRL that box is made of wood, in my case I use plastic sheets shielded by aluminum. Best Regards
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#38
09-06-2014, 10:46 AM
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There are perfect storms and 'perfect idiots'. Surely this guy, j______player belongs the this league.
Franco, I cannot believe that you give credit to the frequent BS this character speaks. To try to discredit what pioneer researchers in the area of the so called 'phenomenon' such as late J.P.Damasio and Victor Alonso have discovered is not only hilarious but also dign of pity. The only microbes that are involved, only populate in his mind. My friend Franco, you have proven to be a knowledgeable person in this forum. No need to get involved in nonsense discussions with him. But do what you please... I can tell you that you are in the right path studying Rota's research. But he is only a small part of the puzzle. The new term for you to pay attention real close is 'dielectric discharge'. Stick to it. I told here that my new LRL is based on a technology that I have never seen anywhere. This is correct. When the time comes for me to divulge this, you will know and I will also scientifically prove without a shadow of doubt that some of the so called 'accepted' scientific concepts are broken and put into pieces. Academia sucks... they fool nobody anymore. Working on the panel display now. Looks really neat. Been busy also with field hunts. So not so much time in lab work for this project as I wish I had. Some more weeks... Stand by. Rgds.
__________________
"Should exist injustice and untruths towards working LRLs, I'll show up to debunker the big mouths"
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#40
09-06-2014, 01:43 PM
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Of course it is beyond anyone's ability to search on the scientific basis of the "phenomenon". The reason is because there is no scientific basis for the "phenomenon". The basis for the "phenomenon" is this: Alonso placed a chair on the ground at a location where he knew there was a long-time buried gold item. Then he stood on the chair and saw his locator beep when he held it as high as 7.2 feet above the ground. After observing this beeping, he stated that gold ions were in the air and were causing his locator to beep. After making his observation, he and Damasio devised a marketing plan which included manufacturing a pile of pseudoscience to explain to gullible customers how they discovered a new invention called the "substance classifier" which detects clouds of floating gold ions that hover 7.2 feet above buried gold. Then they enhanced their explanation by quoting a German scientist out of context named Leonard B. Loeb, to support their claims of how static electricity was instrumental in making these clouds of floating gold ions detectable. When it was proven that there are no clouds of gold ions floating in the air to detect, and their "substance classifier" is a sealed cylinder which cannot allow ions to enter the chamber, it became obvious to any educated person that this whole concept of the "phenomenon" was a hoax that they used as a marketing tool to fool laymen. These are the same people who were caught hiding transmitters to make detectors beep, and planting fake long time buried treasures in the field. How do we know it was a hoax? Because they never measured any ions in the air. They watched their detector beep in the air, and they figured this would be good enough to prove to gullible people that floating gold ions caused the beeping. If they could convince people that they had the only invention that could detect these floating ions, then they could sell a lot of their detectors to people who have gold fever. It is easy to prove they gave false information if we sample the air with a drift tube where these alleged floating gold ions are reported to exist. So why would a person with normal intelligence choose to believe the "phenomenon" is true when they know it has been proven false? Because hung will call you names if you don't pretend that you believe? About your locator: In the case of your locator, you say it is surely a variable electric field as the sensor is a rod antenna and the sensitivity increases by lengthening the antenna, also only works with a resonant circuit at the entrance formed by 2 or 3 turns, and a capacitor of 22pF. Your circuit appears to be an oscillator and a amplifier with a sensor set to alarm when there is a change in the oscillation strength. A rod antenna appears to be the main part which can make changes to the oscillator circuit. But any change moving through the rod antenna is also subjected to the filter formed by the coil and capacitor at the base of the antenna. Judging from this design, I would guess this device is extremely sensitive to any current which might flow through the antenna. A number of things come to mind when I see this circuit design: 1. Any variation of the charge in the air around the antenna can have an influence on the oscillator. The mechanism would be a circuit between charged particles in the air which contact the antenna and transfer the charge to the internal circuitry. In order to complete this circuit, the person holding the locator becomes part of the circuit to allow the electrons to pass through him when they move between the ground and the atmosphere. 2. Remember that the operator of the locator is also exposed to the atmosphere, and will collect charges as the antenna does. In this case, any charge he collects would not be filtered with an LC circuit. And the amount of charge that the operator collects might be much more than what the antenna collects, or it could be less if he is wearing clothes which have a charge that repels charged particles in the air. If we suppose that the operator is collecting charge similar to the antenna, then his charge passes directly from the air without needing to travel through the locator before connecting to him. 3. Capacitance coupling may be playing an important role in what happens with this locator. When static charges are involved, the surface of the operator becomes important as a capacitor which can store a certain amount of charge. The charge of the operator will have varying influences on the locator, because the charge will vary, especially if the operator is moving. In the case when the ground is wet, he will not store much charge, and will become an extension of the ground. In cases of very dry ground such as dry desert sand, he could become highly charged. But what happens when he comes near a tree or other large grounded object? We can expect to see some capacitance coupling effects such as surges of charge at the time he moves toward or away from these objects. 4. Changes in the air charge as you move the locator to different positions in the air would likely cause the oscillator to change its signal strength. If these changes in the air charge are caused by buried gold ion activity, it would be good for locating gold. But what are the variations of air charge? They are often caused by a number of non-gold anomalies such as the same trees or buildings which are an extension of the ground. Or they can also be caused by dust anomalies in the air, or electrical events that are not related to buried gold. 5. While it seems that variations in the atmospheric charge are causing the antenna to move electrons through the locator in varying amounts, there may be another mechanism or more than one which we have not considered. What about oscillation charges in the air -- like RF or other forms of electromagnetic waves that are capable of causing an alternating current to move in the antenna? The antenna looks to be suited for the VHF/UHF frequency range, but it will also respond to other frequencies in lesser amounts. We could expect that any RF flowing into the RC circuit would be partially rectified by TR1, which might have a similar effect as a DC charge anomaly in the air. please don't consider these items to be a complete analysis of the circuit. This is only my best guess from what you described, and without my doing any real-world testing on your circuit. If these things I listed are influencing your circuit, then some of them are considered noise, which is working against your locator. For example, capacitance coupling effects from the operator walking close to trees and other objects above the ground could cause surges of charge which have nothing to do with locating a treasure, but would help to obscure any readings you are trying to search for. Variations in the air charge are also noise, if these variations are not caused by an anomaly where treasures are buried. And we have a lot of stray RF in the air. Some of it may be passing into the LC circuit and adding to the charge. This could be good or bad, depending on the nature of the stray RF. For example an AM broadcast might cause audio frequency fluctuations in the locator, even if the carrier is RF frequency. Again, this is noise which can obscure any good signal. As we discovered, we don't know what is a good signal, because we don't know what is causing the fluctuations that this circuit is detecting exactly. As a tip, I would suggest taking measures to remove the sources of charge that you know are noise, because they are obscuring the other signals that you do not know are noise. Then you might slowly find which of the remaining signals are actually related to the treasure you are searching for. And there is much scientific reading you can do without leaving your computer. If you remember, you said in an earlier post that Frank Rieth did not bury gold and then test it a few months later, but you found out that he actually did many times. This information is available online. The example I quoted was taken from one of the links I put in my earlier post where you can do more reading. Just click on the links, and see what he wrote about his experiments and test results. There are many other online sources for related scientific work that is very pertinent to the anomalies caused by buried gold corroding which you can easily find in a Google search. And all of this is free and accessible to anyone with a computer. Best Wishes, J_P
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#41
09-06-2014, 03:52 PM
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Hi J_Player,
Thanks for your explanation, my LRL is insensitive to trees and walls and also to the compass effect. The tilt of the antenna is critical and depends on the distance from the target, surely it takes a little practice to use this LRL. The heart of the circuit is the TR1 stage that is the input of the high gain amplifier and I agree with you that in some way TR1 demodulates the signal received by the antenna and varies the amplitude and the phase of the signal from the oscillator. In my first project there was no oscillator but it was all the amplifier stage that was in auto-oscillation. Just by chance I noticed that the circuit worked as LRL. I hope that the suggestions that I gave recently to help those who have realized my LRL and that they failed to make it work. The metals buried for a month or 2 they emit a very weak signal and it is necessary that the LRL has the highest sensitivity. Best Regards
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#42
09-06-2014, 07:36 PM
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Thank you for the new data. From what you say, it appears your circuit can be influenced by extremely small signals. This kind of equipment falls within a class of instruments which engineers normally take extreme precautions to shield it from noise sources so they can make their measurements. A simple example is when engineers use a meter that can measure less than a pico-amp. They will attempt to shield the meter and the circuit which they are taking measurements on so stray charges in the air, and capacitance coupling from people standing near the meter to read it will not cause false readings. They often use special grounding methods. Sometimes they even use a Faraday cage to protect both the meter and the circuit which they are measuring so they will not pick up stray currents or charges from the air. I once did some testing on an LRL circuit which had extremely small currents flowing in it, similar to your antenna and filter, but without the power amp or oscillator. This circuit was many times more sensitive to currents which can enter the antenna and circuitry, and flow through the body of the person who holds it. What I discovered is I needed to remove many noise sources before I could find the small signals that I was interested in measuring. To make accurate measurements in a laboratory, I had to shield the electrical noise from power and lighting circuits in the room with a Faraday cage between the oscilloscopes and meters and the circuit so no noise cold ender from the air outside the cage. And the cage was grounded to an earth ground that was less than a meter distance from the cage. After putting the Faraday cage in place, I saw more than 25 decibels of unwanted noise were removed, and I was finally able to see the desired signal, which originated from inside the cage. This same testing was done outdoors where I saw less noise than in the laboratory. The noise I saw outdoors was weaker, and was mostly man-made RF transmissions from long wave band to microwave frequencies. The frequencies above 1GHz were not as strong as they were found indoors where people use wireless TX links for computer and mobile phone equipment. And noise from the mains power was also very much reduced when measuring outdoors. So when I connected and grounded a Faraday cage outdoors, I saw that I was reducing noise from RF transmitters and some random noise which had no pattern (could be natural source), and some noise at the mains frequency at a lower amplitude. I only reduced the noise about 10 decibels in order to see the same clarity of signals that I wanted to measure when testing outdoors. Something interesting I noticed is the mains frequency and other low frequency EM noise always had higher frequency spikes and dips visible on the curve, which would show a pattern if the LF components were filtered away. And these noise patterns may have had various forms of modulation. I presume most of these higher noise frequencies are from separate sources than the mains noise, but the mains noise also showed modulation and spikes which were probably caused by power equipment in nearby industrial plants. Now let's return to your locator: You do not want to shield all of the electronic noise outdoors because you want to be able to measure at least one source of outdoor noise, with hopes that the noise will be somehow be linked to an anomaly in the area where the gold is buried. What you observed is capacitance coupling to trees and the direction of the earth's magnetic field do not influence the circuit in your locator. You also observed that the tilt of the antenna is critical. From this information, it appears you are not detecting a static charge, but demodulated alternating signals from the antenna. The tilt of the antenna may indicate polarization of an incoming RF signal or noise signal. I expect the noise from the air in your location is different than the noise in the air that I measured, but you will probably still see a noise frequency spectrum from ELF/VLF to microwave frequencies. The next step is to discover what is coming into your antenna, and what is being sensed by the circuits. Without using any external shielding, have you measured the incoming signal at the base of the antenna and at the TR1 stage with an oscilloscope? This is the easiest test to see what is coming in and passing to the circuit. But to accomplish this measurement you must make precautions to insure the oscilloscope is not picking up the same noise that goes into the antenna, which would contaminate the measurements you are making. If you have an accurate picture of the wave forms before and after demodulation, this can be helpful to determine what signal you are detecting. It would also be very helpful to use a portable hand-held oscilloscope which you can use to watch changes in these signals as you move the locator from hot treasure locations, to empty locations. It would also be helpful to look for changes in the incoming signals when you change the tilt of the antenna. Another measurement that would be helpful is to see what part of the incoming signal the LC filter is removing from the antenna. At this point, your testing equipment and testing methods are most important so you can capture some signals that show what small AC and DC currents are actually flowing before and after the filter and TR1 stage. After we learn more about what signals are coming in, then we can address the problems that other people have when they fail to build a working clone of this locator. Best Wishes, J_P
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#43
09-08-2014, 10:37 AM
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Hi J_Player
Without metal buried near my LRL not hear anything even tilting the antenna but if there are buried metals approaching the target is necessary to tilt the antenna to get the signal. It seems that the "phenomenon" has its origin about 50cm above the target and then "spreading" around the target tilting upwards. I think a normal oscilloscope does not have the necessary sensitivity to measure the signal at the input of TR1, but I must say that at the moment are more interested in making research with my LRL than trying to understand the scientific basis of its funzionamente. For me the important thing is that it is stable, has no false signals and especially feels the "phenomenon". Best Regards
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#44
09-08-2014, 07:05 PM
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I have watched you since 2006 looking for ways to detect buried treasure from a distance. 8 years later, you are looking for a "phenomenon" that does not exist. Yet you are able to see detection in a pattern. You are detecting real electrical energy of some sort, not ions floating in the air, as the "phenomenon" was falsely defined. The only method I know to improve the performance of your locator is to first identify what form of electrical energy you are detecting. Then take measures to isolate this energy as a signal, and shield it from other noise which will interfere and cause false readings, or otherwise obscure the signal. If you are certain it is not possible to identify what kind of signals your antenna is receiving, and observe the signal in the filter and at TR1, then I believe you will still be searching for ways to make your locator stable without false signals after 8 more years pass. At this point, there is nothing more I can do to help. Good luck with your treasure hunting. Best Wishes, J_P
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#45
09-09-2014, 10:38 AM
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Hi J_Player,
You're right it is 8 years that I have been interested LRL but now I have what I need, a stable LRL without false signals even if for different reasons, including health reasons, I have not been able to do extensive research in the fields, however, I found several metals, mainly composed of brass. But this is enough to show that the LRL works well. Concerning the phenomenon it certainly exists and is the one that allows to metals buried for a long time to be detected at a distance. You can also call it "disturbance" or "modulation" of an existing field, telluric currents, RF emissions, background noise, and so on. If you do not accept this fact and you use scientific laws to demonstrate that the phenomenon does not exist you will no doubt be in good company. In this forum there are many people who are experts in the field of physics and electronics, but in the real field have made a few steps with something homemade. Best Regards
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#46
09-09-2014, 11:04 AM
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Sorry to say: If you cannot pass simple independent illusion-exclusion tests, you have nothing, except deceptive complacency, as many other dreamers too. They need to dream and they have nice dream, nothing else. But this is something too, don't you?
__________________
Global capital is ruining your life? You have right to self-defence!
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#47
09-09-2014, 11:39 AM
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Hi WM6
Of course I have dreams, dreams before the fact, or rather the changes and innovations. If Newton was a "normal" scientist he would certainly have cursed the bad luck for the apple on his head and he would have simply avoided in the future to stand under an apple tree. I wonder what your function in this forum, you want to avoid disappointment for new members to the forum? Have you ever built any circuit and field-tested? How can you say that my LRL does not work and that I am a dreamer? Best Regards
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#48
09-09-2014, 12:26 PM
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__________________
Global capital is ruining your life? You have right to self-defence!
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#49
09-09-2014, 05:42 PM
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Passive receiver from our student in Algeria this is for skeptics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAESB...ature=youtu.be
__________________
God bless all - Nicolas << My channel >> << My shop >> Please do not demand Private Messages .... I cant reply all here....For more information you can send me email ....Thank you for understanding
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#50
09-09-2014, 09:25 PM
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Totally agree pal Frank, the photographer can see that the South is the compass, we see that the Gold gun in this direction bora south there is a difference in the video can clearly see in this address to fall to -26 while dbfs filmed another anaivenoun -22 to 23, outside in nature that try to standing objective FALL onwards up to -45, the apparent large, ancient goal produces something similar to the phenomenon of compass ...  View My Video
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