Mineoro FG79-Happy new Year

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Done.

Thank you Qiaozhi

[Geo]

Originally Posted by hung

Geo, you can actually use many alternatives to it, not only the 555, but a 7555, a CD4001, etc. So what?
They alone, do not make a beeping circuit. You need a logical circuit to provide this once you fully understand what they are supposed to do. If you don't, you will only have a beeping trigger. That's all. This will be even harder to follow if mistakes are present in schematics.

To my surprise, you still appear to not understand what is going on to back up your conclusions which are mistaken.
An ion based detection system obviously will react to all kinds of electric fields as ions are everywhere. But the way the Mineoros are built allows it to 'classify' the gold ones.
This machine is about 10 years old now and despite of being good at that time, the new models are different, both in terms of circuitry and ionic chamber.
But, as with any electronic apparatus, it can always be improved, as long as you understand the concept and what is going on.

From a metaphoric view, you are trying to 'listen to the answer' to figure out the question made.
In some instances, you may deduce what it could be, but in others, you will not know what exactly was asked if you did not hear the question yourself. And this is what it takes.

Why you try to present that you did not understand what I said???. I am sure that you understood.

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by FrancoItaly

Hi All

In my opinion for a LRL isn't very important to discriminate only gold, but to reveal conductive metals at many meters...

Best regards

Hi Franco.
Exactly.... There are other objects (no gold) that they are very very expensive....
For example old copper, old silver etc.....

Regards

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Geo

Who bets????

Geo, "bets" was typo in my first New year wishes to you (instead of "best"). So I correct it to not get bad karma.

[Geo]

Originally Posted by WM6

Geo, "bets" was typo in my first New year wishes to you (instead of "best"). So I correct it to not get bad karma.

Hahaha... thanks.
I believe to LRL but not to Karma.
You are the oposite from me

[WM6]

Originally Posted by Geo

Hahaha... thanks.
I believe to LRL but not to Karma.
You are the oposite from me

Yes, but Karma can reach you more remotely than LRL. There is no distance limits for Karma. Ask Mr. Hung. He believes in $$-reincarnation out of nothing.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Geo

....no problem if there are errors. As you see the only job of Atmel is to gives a square wave to the "champer" and to drive the buzzer, so with 2 NE555 we don't need the Atmel. But the problem is not the Atmel but the way that Mineoro works. It uses one input for 2 signals, the signal from champer who must be only from gold (the reason of sample) and the signal from Loop. So when it will beep, you don't know if the signal it is from gold, from other metal or from electric lines.......

Hi Geo,
There is more to see in the circuit you posted.
We see two signals feeding to one input at Q1, as you say. Then after these two signals are amplified and filtered, we see they emerge as a single signal at Q3 which is sent to one input of the Atmel processor.
The same signal is also sent through an adjustable resistor divider, then sent to another Atmel input.

So we now see how Mineoro is thinking about circuit design...
Combine two signals into the same input.
Then take the single signal output and split it into two signals to send to a processor.

This may seem a strange circuit approach to sent the same signal to both inputs of a processor with different strengths.
Are you sure the purpose of the processor is to compare these signals?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Astrodetect]

Hi all and Happy New year
As for the Mineoro the atmel is used to generate the square pulses for the ion chamber
but also it uses the on board analog voltage comparator of the chip, and this is the true
classifier. What does it do? The pulses of the ion chanber gold leaf are fed to the voltage comparator and if the mineoro senses gold ions then the amplitude of the sharp pulses rises and the mineoro beeps. This is the supposed clasifier which works with the gold sample.
Regards

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by Astrodetect

Hi all and Happy New year
As for the Mineoro the atmel is used to generate the square pulses for the ion chamber
but also it uses the on board analog voltage comparator of the chip, and this is the true
classifier. What does it do? The pulses of the ion chanber gold leaf are fed to the voltage comparator and if the mineoro senses gold ions then the amplitude of the sharp pulses rises and the mineoro beeps. This is the supposed clasifier which works with the gold sample.
Regards

That´s the theory,but the experience shows the MINEORO is not so good as GOLD LRL,unfortunatly...

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Morgan

That´s the theory,but the experience shows the MINEORO is not so good as GOLD LRL,unfortunatly...

Exactly....
The theory does not matter if the product does not work. We see Mineoro has removed their theory of Romeo and Juliet love ions making a crashing to send a signal to Q1. You will no longer find this theory on the Mineoro page:

...This explains the substance classifier. When the negative "ion" finds its twin of opposite polarity, they love each other so intensively, that when they get together they provoke a short-circuit autodestroying themselves. As in the Romeo and Juliet movie, both of them die, but the proof of their death is a flask of poison near them; in the same way, our "passionate ions" also leave a proof of their death in "emiting a crash", which generates an electrical signal so fast as nano, pico, femto or atto seconds , detectable in sensitive electronic circuits...

Originally Posted by Astodetect

As for the Mineoro the atmel is used to generate the square pulses for the ion chamber
but also it uses the on board analog voltage comparator of the chip, and this is the true
classifier. What does it do? The pulses of the ion chanber gold leaf are fed to the voltage comparator and if the mineoro senses gold ions then the amplitude of the sharp pulses rises and the mineoro beeps. This is the supposed clasifier which works with the gold sample.

Hi Astrodetect,
This is very interesting information. How did you come to know the Atmel is sending the signal to make a comparison using the on-board voltage comparator?
Do you know what they are comparing the signal voltage to? A preset voltage level? Or another signal that is generated inside the processor?
Did you find the code for this processor? Can you share it?

I am still trying to understand why they split the final signal into two different voltages and fed the same signal to two inputs at the Atmel. To me this does not make sense unless they are doing some advanced signal processing beyond simple comparator functions. Do you have knowledge of the processor code to show us what functions are being done with these two input signals inside the AT89C2051?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Rudy]

...This explains the substance classifier. When the negative "ion" finds its twin of opposite polarity, they love each other so intensively, that when they get together they provoke a short-circuit autodestroying themselves. As in the Romeo and Juliet movie, both of them die, but the proof of their death is a flask of poison near them; in the same way, our "passionate ions" also leave a proof of their death in "emiting a crash", which generates an electrical signal so fast as nano, pico, femto or atto seconds , detectable in sensitive electronic circuits...

Whoever wrote the quaint piece above doesn't know the difference between two oppositely charged ions and a particle antiparticle pair.

Also, anything inside an Atmel chip is incapable of detecting a signal of femto or atto seconds duration. Detecting such signals require some pretty esoteric, high performance (ie. expensive) electronics.

[Fred]

Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )

The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.

But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.

At this price it is worth the trouble.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Fred

Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )

The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.

But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.

At this price it is worth the trouble.

You are dign of pity.
So I will do my first charity of the year, offering you the opportunity of your life.
Here... It's all yours. FOR FREE.
http://www.electronicstheory.com/COU...ICS/e101-1.htm

You cannot imagine how rewarding it is to help another soul to reach the light.

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by hung

You are dign of pity.
So I will do my first charity of the year, offering you the opportunity of your life.
Here... It's all yours. FOR FREE.
http://www.electronicstheory.com/COU...ICS/e101-1.htm

You cannot imagine how rewarding it is to help another soul to reach the light.

When the world is closing in on you, punt and hope for the best.

What? It didn't work?
Still nobody believes you know what yer talking about?
How sad it is when you got busted for plagiarizing Damasio's scribblings that he removed from his web page when people figured out he was lying....
You still believe gold ions DNA produces a substance that fights against oxidation?
Oh well....

Now back to what we were talking about...

Originally Posted by Fred

Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )

The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.

But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.

At this price it is worth the trouble.

Ummmmm...
Now wait...
Maybe there is something here...

If the Mineoro owners wanted to make the appearance of high technology, they could have hidden the Atmel processor and added some weird tubes and antennas... (oops, they did)... nevermind...

Well... at least they sent the same signal to the processor twice... with different strengths.... don't that mean something?
I bet Dr. hung could explain it with elementary electronics... couldn't he?

Ok seriously... putting aside HungScience, I have seen a signal processing algorithm that uses the same signal twice at different strengths. And it is a very sophisticated and elegant solution to simplify a lot of analogue electronics. When applied to LRLs, only 2 or 3 people have ever heard of it or tried it. Those who did try the analogue version report that it works. I love to believe them, but I cannot truthfully say I have ever seen it working... only videos.

So where are we now?
Is there a new possibility?
Or is it simply another trick of the mind?

Best wishes,
J_P

[Geo]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Geo,
There is more to see in the circuit you posted.
We see two signals feeding to one input at Q1, as you say. Then after these two signals are amplified and filtered, we see they emerge as a single signal at Q3 which is sent to one input of the Atmel processor.
The same signal is also sent through an adjustable resistor divider, then sent to another Atmel input.

So we now see how Mineoro is thinking about circuit design...
Combine two signals into the same input.
Then take the single signal output and split it into two signals to send to a processor.

This may seem a strange circuit approach to sent the same signal to both inputs of a processor with different strengths.
Are you sure the purpose of the processor is to compare these signals?

Best wishes,
J_P

Hi J_P.

I don't believe that is happening something strange because the same signal is going at two inputs.....
You don't believe that the gold (from the champer) gives a different signal than the signal from the Loop. If we have only one signal then the processor can't do anything more than to compare it.....
I am not good on programing processors so i can't tell more.....

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Astrodetect

Hi all and Happy New year
As for the Mineoro the atmel is used to generate the square pulses for the ion chamber
but also it uses the on board analog voltage comparator of the chip, and this is the true
classifier. What does it do? The pulses of the ion chanber gold leaf are fed to the voltage comparator and if the mineoro senses gold ions then the amplitude of the sharp pulses rises and the mineoro beeps. This is the supposed clasifier which works with the gold sample.
Regards

Γεια σου Δημητρη. Καλη Χρονια.

Hi Astrodetect... Happy new year. As i see and you... don't believe to the theory of Mineoro

Regards

[Geo]

Originally Posted by Fred

Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )

The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.

But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.

At this price it is worth the trouble.

Hi Fred.
I believe exactly the same with you. A simple VLF or LF receiver and nothing more.....
It seems that it is not a reliable method to detect a object from the results... there are a little cases where the owners found buried objects but all the other cases nothing. Also this is the reason who Mineoro speaks about humidity etc.....

Regards

[hung]

After 6 years, I see the true loop is the flow of information here...

[WM6]

Originally Posted by hung

After 6 years, I see the true loop is the flow of information here...

You need 6 years to see those signal lines?

[FrancoItaly]

Hi J_Player

I don't know the AT89C2051 , I know very well the PIC 16F... series. Some PICs have 2 comparators and an internal programmable reference voltage, if it's the same for
the AT89C2051 it's possible that the processor controls if the voltage is out of a window voltage. Of course 2 externals comparator do the same job.

Best Regards

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Fred

Looking at the schematic it is even more obvious now that the "ionic chamber" is only here to make people think there is something special to this device...
(Making us think it works like a particle detector, with only 27v and directly connected to the base of the transistor is nonsense )

The only real electronics in there is the VLF/everything receiver that will pick up some radio signal (depending of your location, time of the day etc), and will look like "signal lines"... If you are really lucky you may even find that metallic objects may have some effect on this radio signals.

But that will never be a RELIABLE method to detect buried metal.
Also, the way the thing is build it will pick up all kinds of noise and will beep randomly, then selective memory and some target (ie P.M.) advertising will do the rest.

At this price it is worth the trouble.

Originally Posted by hung

You are dign of pity.
So I will do my first charity of the year, offering you the opportunity of your life.
Here... It's all yours. FOR FREE.
http://www.electronicstheory.com/COU...ICS/e101-1.htm

You cannot imagine how rewarding it is to help another soul to reach the light.

Fred - it appears that Hung is asking you to read the information in the link, and then let him know what it means.
Sad really ...

Hung - may your delusions continue during 2011 and beyond. At least it gives us all some cause for amusement.

[hung]

Ozzy, you are a true laughing show when trying to explain dowsing, but balloneys apart and talking about circuit analysis...

What is this?
Let's hear the ' geoskepthic engineers' speak.

[minime]

Originally Posted by hung

Ozzy, you are a true laughing show when trying to explain dowsing, but balloneys apart and talking about circuit analysis...

What is this?
Let's hear the ' geoskepthic engineers' speak.

I know it! I know about it! Can I please reply?

It;s the NEW MINEORO's front end !!! ???
In the left is the Ion chamber 3 contacts! The polarisation of the chamber is now more active as it uses a newer level of voltage, that regarding the positive supplied power on the machine it is down by 9V! The transistor circuit has been replaced with an OpAmp amplifier based on the high tech brand new technological miracle of the 741 !!! The following circuit uses some clipping diodes to ensure the correct leveled window that the unit will act! The S1 DPDT switch it;s the improved substitute circuit of the AT89C2051 uCU used on the older units!
The circuit uses now the manpower of its specific user, as it permits him to tune the chanching of the S1 at his body, mind resonanse!
The Led connected at the secondary switch of the S1 SPDT is for visual synchronization in case that the user is death!
Thank for revealing us such a hich tech design... Only the Mine or O could possible have invent that!
It;s the perfect upgrade circuit for the newer generation LRL's
Again... respect!

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by hung

Ozzy, you are a true laughing show when trying to explain dowsing, but balloneys apart and talking about circuit analysis...

What is this?
Let's hear the ' geoskepthic engineers' speak.

As I said before ... "May your delusions continue".

Very high-tech. I'm impressed.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Qiaozhi

Very high-tech. I'm impressed.

You shouldn't.
Wrong answer.
Not high tech. Actually low tech and very simple. Yet effective and millions were sold.

Aren't you one of the 'eyeballers' here who can spot a circuit schematics and tell their 'lifestory'?

Try again. What is this?