Mineoro Challenge... maybe

[okantex]

domasio found nothing.
he just does experiments.
results are real facts.
but his theory is out of science.
that is what he believes,nothing else.
here I solve how it works.
If you read all my letters,you will see that
do you know chess
now I am playing to get his king.
and he is defendless against my attack.

AND every patent offeice can give you what you want.it is up to money.you know this better than me.if there is a real patent which hold scientific facts in hand.why they do not explain it to public.they have right to produce it with out dublication of others for years and take second right to produce again with this procedure.
while nobody can produce it ,they have notthing to afraid.

[okantex]

and sent all of my letters in this thread to him.
also emfad has patent and serious users .it is a real machine.
according to same theory their products must work.if they believe their products work.ESteban says this ,too.they know who is esteban .they must believe him ,too.
so I would like to count money.

[Carl-NC]

Originally Posted by hung

I don't think you know what he means by Damasio & Alonso method of detection.

One way to win the challenge, is to prove the devices do not detect gold at all. Then the "Damasio & Alonso method" is irrelevant.

I own a FG80. It detects fresh gold. But special conditions have to be met. Humidities well lower than 50%.

Good. We can do the test in an air-conditioned building, where the humidity is controlled.

- Carl

[okantex]

look at antennas
emfad uses selenoid winding
man in pic uses round winding
old mineoro uses rectangular winding
DCH85 uses round a little bit selonoid like round winding.
,SO ALL OF THEM USE DİRECTİONAL ANTENNAS.
NOTHİNG ELSE.
THEY ALL ARE JUST DİRCTİONAL RECİEVERS WORK İN SAME MANNER.

[Carl-NC]

okantex,

Proving the Mineoro devices respond to RF signals does not satisfy their "challenge." Their challenge was to "prove the directional detectors below...do not detect according the Damásio&Alonso © research method." Just because the devices respond to RF (which we have proven, and Hung's report verifies) does not necessarily prove they won't respond to something else.

The challenge is actually very vague. First, notice they say,

"prove the directional detectors below..."

They did not say,

"prove that any of the directional detectors below..."

What this means is that you would have to prove that ALL of the listed detectors DO NOT operate by some claimed method.

Second, you would have to prove they do not detect according to the "Damásio&Alonso © research method." First of all, a "research method" is a method of conducting research. How research is conducted plays no role whatsoever in how things actually work, so this makes no sense. Next, notice that "Damásio&Alonso" is one word, which means that it is an identifier for "something." That "something" has not been described, so right now, there is no way to prove their detectors don't work according to the "Damásio&Alonso...method".

Finally, they ask you to prove their devices "do not detect." They do not ask you to prove their devices "do not detect gold." This is a critical point. We already know their devices detect RF signals. We even know their devices detect 8kV zaps from an ESD gun. So as it is stated, their challenge is already impossible to win.

My request for clarification on these points has been met with silence.

Now, assuming that what they really meant to say is,

"prove that any of the directional detectors below...do not detect gold according the theory of ionic field detection"

then this would be a winable challenge. One way is to prove that buried gold does not produce ions. Another is to gut the device and show there is no ion detecting method inside. But the easiest way to win, is to test a device that claims to detect "fresh gold"... if the device cannot detect the gold, then that is inclusive of "not detecting the gold according to the theory of ionic field detection." Challenge won.

- Carl

[hung]

Carl,

I talked to Damasio a while ago and he said Mineoro NEVER blocked yours or anybody's emails. On monday he wil personally check what's going on since if it's happening to you it might be happening to other people as well.

He asked if you can provide you phone number also as they could call you early next week.

So as you see, no need to imagine 'mysterious' things to support 'conspiracy theories'.

Also he told me the 'Challenge' rules and topics will be known soon.

About your 'assumptions' above. No need to formulate complex theories.
You will see and learn how long time buried gold will be detected from a distance and also you will witness how the detectors wil respond to fresh gold in air, hidden in your body even at a distance, in this case provided the conditions permit.

[okantex]

patricia'@mineoro.com does not work
you have to use mineoro@ineoro.com

[okantex]

" What this means is that you would have to prove that ALL of the listed detectors DO NOT operate by some claimed method."

if so there is no chaallenge here.
just an other bogus of mineoro

ofcourse it can detect static electricity.while waveing (swinging) vise versa(left to right,right to left)
but no ionic fphenomen exist here.
maybe detection of positive earth magnetic fluxes also posible.
but reflection of rf signal is the most powerfull one .
becase user tunes frequency with potensiometer.if it were earth mag.flux. u need fixed value of frequency.
if it were ionic phenomen ,u had never need to tune something.
BUT İF U ACCEPT RECİEVEİNG RF REFLECTİON ,TUNİNG BECOMES MEANİNG FULL.OTHER VİSE MEANİNGLESS.
AGAİN WE COME TO THE THEORY WHİCH İS EMFAD BASED ON.

[hung]

okantex,
You have to add '.br' to those email links.
patricia@mineoro.com.br
mineoro@mineoro.com.br


You are speculating on what the challenge is all about.
To me it's clear. To demonstrate that the detectors don't work based on the damasio&alonso method, that is, that it cannot locate long time buried gold through ionic and electrostatic detection. Simple. Now wait for the rules and details.

The ionic detection system of Mineoro is unique. It's like isolating the gold's ion 'DNA'.

RF....
Tel me what kind of test you imagine I could perform with the FG80 to deomonstrate it's behaviour regarding RF?
Hmmm?

[okantex]

hung
what was the princible of DCH85
is not it working with ionic phenomen like pd and dc series?

[okantex]

hung
you are blind and deaf
read your word and domasio's carefully

"You are speculating on what the challenge is all about.
To me it's clear. To demonstrate that the detectors don't work based on the damasio&alonso method, that is, that it cannot locate long time buried gold through ionic and electrostatic detection
"
nobody says prove that mineoro detectors never work.
just prove that they do not work according to ionic phenomen.

and I say it works .but according to rf and static electricity(electrostatics).

[hung]

Originally Posted by okantex

hung
what was the princible of DCH85
is not it working with ionic phenomen like pd and dc series?

The same principle.
Only it was much less powerful and dependent of 100% ionic field intensity. It also had 3 switches . Gold, Silver and Copper. Later it was discarded.
Although the PDCs are only gold, they may eventually detect other noble metals in a less extense and from a much closer distance.
For instance, in july I was in an expedition and my team and I got a flat tire. Upon stoping in a place to repair it, I was playing with the PDC when all of a sudden it started to beep in one direction . I followed it and 20 feet later I was exactly over an old piece of copper tubing laid in the ground. The guy who was repairing the tire said that piece of copper was laying there for several years. The weather that day was awfully hot and the humidity around 10%.
How the detection happened?
As I won't go into the real scientific explanation, let's put it this way.

Suppose you're in a closed room positioned in the center. At left there's a 100 watt amplifier. At your right a 0.5 watt amp. If I crank both amps, which one you will be hear to listen? Sure the 100 watt model. Can you still hear the 0.5 watt one? No.
What happens if I turn the 100 watt amp´off? I will start to listen to the 0.5 watt.
Ok. The gold is the 100 watt amp. Copper, silver and bronze, for instance are the 0.5 power amp.

[okantex]

hi hung
I believe yuor experimentation.
I could not understand what you want to say .
by the word
"
dependent of 100% ionic field intensity.
"
can you say it with different words.
do you want to mean it only uses ionic phenomen.
or it does not use this phenomen.
sorry english is not my native language.

[okantex]

and can you sent a user manuel of dch85
if posible.

[hung]

Originally Posted by okantex

hi hung
I believe yuor experimentation.
I could not understand what you want to say .
by the word
"
dependent of 100% ionic field intensity.
"
can you say it with different words.
do you want to mean it only uses ionic phenomen.
or it does not use this phenomen.
sorry english is not my native language.

The DCH85 was only capable to detect if the ionic fields of the region were at max. It used to employ the same ionic electrostatic principle as today's PDC and FG series, however his range was limited by the intensitiy of the ionic field. Along the years Mineoro evolved the concept and today's FG for instance can be effective with only 25% of ionic intensity.

Sorry, I don't have DCH's manual. Maybe Esteban does it.

[okantex]

hi hung
if dch and others work in same princible,
in my opinion you are right .they all work with same princible,too.
where is the clasifier of dch .
can you see any around
only thing you will see is round wind directional coil
whiich proves my theory.
there is no ionic phenomen.since there is no ionic chamber or clasifier ,however you call it.
can you learn frequency range of these models.
for example zahori between 0-10 hz and 10-1000 hz

[hung]

Originally Posted by okantex

hi hung
if dch and others work in same princible,
in my opinion you are right .they all work with same princible,too.
where is the clasifier of dch .
can you see any around
only thing you will see is round wind directional coil
whiich proves my theory.
there is no ionic phenomen.since there is no ionic chamber or clasifier ,however you call it.
can you learn frequency range of these models.
for example zahori between 0-10 hz and 10-1000 hz

I will try to get more info on the DCH series and get back to you.
The PDCs have a perimeter antenna and it does not necessarily means it works based on RF. Bear in mind that Mineoro's explanation on their site is TRUE. It's not a misleading information at all.
Anyway, I will try to reach Damasio today or tomorrow about the DCH and get back to you.

[Esteban]

DCH models and similars work via RF. Mineoro with chambers are different, only the loop is some similar as magnetic field absorber.

[hung]

Originally Posted by Esteban

DCH models and similars work via RF. Mineoro with chambers are different, only the loop is some similar as magnetic field absorber.

As I had a talk with Damasio a few moments ago I also asked him about the DCH which I was not familiar with. He confirmed it works on the same principle as the PDCs. Although they all have antennas which are prone to receive RF transmissions, this is not how it works. The DCH have (had) 3 ionic chambers. Each for gold ,copper ,and silver.

[okantex]

these last two mails's explanations looks different.
this is the first time estebans and domasios decisions on system different.
interesting
if system is same
why esteban had not seen and recognise it before.
esteban has his own models work with out clasifier ,do not you have esteban.

[okantex]

esteban
can zahori find the dept of target.
or just mineoro models can do it

[Esteban]

Hi, Okantex. Hung said "the same principles" regarding ionization. I use terminology RF because inside there are a PCB with RF section wich detect the difference in RF pattern. Also RF detects the ionization of buried good conductive metals.

You can measure the depth with arithmetic formula. I'll post the drawings of it.

[Esteban]

You can see how can calculate the depth:

http://www.mineoro.com.br/portugues/...manualfg80.htm

[okantex]

I wanted to mean that can zahori measure dept with this (mineoro) method.

ANd I have an offer for you.
we do this with rods.
when you center target .nail a copper pin (8 mm -12mm diameter. 30cm lenght.copper pipe) 10-20cm nailing to ground is enough.be sure that it must be tightly driven to ground.surface must kiss earth.
tahn wait for 10 minutes.
and move back with mineoro.
good luck.

[Esteban]

The phenomenom is the same for all the long range electronic detector. I know that the LRL rods detectorists uses "the rule of the bishop".