The so-called PHENOMENON

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Max

So Dell...
I suppose this girl wanna dowse for treasure... mental dowsing of course...
Max

Don´t dowse any more, girl , you have found your treasure! i´m here!

[J_Player]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Of course there is one other facet of the TRIGGER, before the ideomotor response. That is, there is no way the operator can tell from which source the TRIGGER came. No way!

Hi Theseus,
You have applied your concept of a trigger to "ideamotor response". I presume this means the dowser is holding rods without making any kinds of thoughts that involve deciding things or arriving at conclusions. He is only allowing responses to happen when some "trigger mechanism" compels his hands to respond.

This could work for any of the senses. ie: a person driving, while not thinking about anything in particular has a sudden response to slow down. He then realizes he has spotted a black and white car with lights flashing on top of it (before he had any conscious thoughts about it, he responded). This principle also works when you get too close to a fire, or sit on a needle that you can feel, etc.

Other times, we use our senses while making conscious thoughts and decisions. ie: you are lost, so you look for landmarks, where do you see the sun in the sky, street signs, etc. You think about the things you see, and process this data consciously and purposefully. Then you arrive at a conclusion of where to go.

With dowsing, either of these mechanisms could be used. In the case where you don't have a clue what you are doing, you may be using pure ideamotor guessing responses, and digging lots of empty holes. Or you may be processing information you read at the library, and on maps that give you some ideas about the treasure when you decide where to dowse at. Perhaps thinking and arriving at conclusions constitutes part of the "trigger" for this manner of dowsing.

But what about the possibility that there are more sensory mechanisms than the 5 common senses? Suppose a dowser has some sensory input that tells him to feel nervous and causes his arm muscles to twitch when he walks in certain locations. Suppose he also has a certain "recognizable feeling" that he has learned to associate with different kinds of anomalies he finds when he is dowsing. None of this has been confirmed, but it haas been reported by some dowsers. If it is true, then what about determining the source of this "sensory input"?

Consider the sense of hearing. You can tell the source of a sound fairly well, as well as a lot of other informatiion about the sound just by listening as you walk. Suppose these reports of another "sensory input" were also able to gain some clues to the source of the "trigger" in the same manner as hearing does, or perhaps vision, or smell? This would mean it is not a purely "ideamotor responsse", but a response that is more similar to a "sensory input response", as in Pavlov's dog.

Of course, this is all hypothetical wishful dream-thinking until a person is located that can accurately find things by dowsing better than chance guessing, and demonstrate for some testing to see if it is true or not.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

True Dowsing is a Mental application, such as Map, Photo, and Information. Meta-Physics, psychic output from the sub-conscious, via a trained (programmed) mind/muscle ideomoter response. It's triggered by an internal stimulus.

The reality is somewhat different. It's a convenient method of wallet-mining, without having to leave the comfort of your own home.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

When the Rod(s) are used in a field search application, too often physics come into play. External stimulus such as Magnetics, and possibly other factors (physics) appear to have an effect on hand held Dowsing Rod(s), as well as wind, weather, rough terrain, etc, when physically searching for the emanating "field" of chemical elements.

The rods mostly move due to gravity, but occasionally wind and rain causes movement.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

MFD, HID, LRL, and most directional locators are used in a physics application, Not a mental Dowsing application, as some here seem to insist. In fact, most of these configurations would be difficult, and impractical tools to use for mental Dowsing.

Correction ... pseudo-scientific application. In other words, a well known mind trick explained using wish-science.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

I use a needle & thread and it's a great tool for Dowsing, but not so good for a physics application, unless of course, you use it to sew, or remove a splinter.

Wallet mining from the kitchen table, or (if performed in the living room) "armchair dowsing".

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

Certainly, there are those who don't know the distinction, who will unwittingly try to intertwine dowsing with physics. This can be confusing and cause inaccuracies for the inexperienced. The correct interpretation of the reaction of the Rod(s) is different in a mental dowsing application, than it is in a physics application.

The only intertwining of dowsing with physics is via gravity. The rest is a fairyland interpretation.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

The term "Dowsing", when associated with a physics application of the hand held rod(s) is an inaccurate misnomer. It is often mis-labeled Dowsing, when the definition is taken out of context. One terminology does not fit both.

No idea what that is supposed to mean. It's just meaningless gobbledygook.

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

O.K. you seem to correctly be making a distinction by not including Map, Photo, & and Information Dowsing in your categorization, so to avoid confusion among viewers I suggest leaving the term "Dowsing," and mind/muscle "ideomotor" response totally out of a discussion of physics, and their effects on Hand held L-Rod(s), lest Skeptics continue to demonstrate their ignorance of these subjects. Swallow your ego's,(don't choke) and decide to become serious about learning, and stop bashing & mocking those who do have at least some working knowledge and show them respect.

That would be a smart thing to do. But why would you want to change the habit of a lifetime?

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

That's certainly a joke, that I will see egotists, and pretend scientist posting on Carl Morland's forum who are open minded to learning from a 6th grader? To me, It's a sad commentary for the skeptic mentality, but even if I live to be 100. I won't live long enough to see that happen. Dell

Now who's being egotistical?

Originally Posted by Dell Winders

So, Continue what you know best. CUE: Mocking and bashing, please!

It would be my pleasure.

"WHAT DOESN'T WORK, CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK."

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ivconic

The rest of your post is compatible to just what i wanted to say also, but couldn't elaborate that good due my poor managing in English language..

That's never stopped Dell.

At least you don't post nonsense.

[Qiaozhi]

Originally Posted by ivconic

Mental dowsing or not...but, Qiaozhi right now i can "see" some cash money in your pockets...from here! I used your last post to concentrate!
It is misty....but i also "see" you are sitting and typing something ...and YES you have Linux installed on your pc - that's what i am sure about!

Ha,ha,ha! This is not valid example. I made it just for fun and to illustrate what we should not accept here as example if somebody offers here to perform demonstration of mental dowsing...

Yes .... I too am concentrating at my kitchen table, and ..... it's becoming clear ... you are using Windows without any anti-virus software.

This message will self-destruct in 10 seconds, leaving your disk infected with spam and spyware.

[Theseus]

Originally Posted by J_Player

Hi Theseus,
You have applied your concept of a trigger to "ideamotor response". I presume this means the dowser is holding rods without making any kinds of thoughts that involve deciding things or arriving at conclusions. He is only allowing responses to happen when some "trigger mechanism" compels his hands to respond.

This could work for any of the senses. ie: a person driving, while not thinking about anything in particular has a sudden response to slow down. He then realizes he has spotted a black and white car with lights flashing on top of it (before he had any conscious thoughts about it, he responded). This principle also works when you get too close to a fire, or sit on a needle that you can feel, etc.

Other times, we use our senses while making conscious thoughts and decisions. ie: you are lost, so you look for landmarks, where do you see the sun in the sky, street signs, etc. You think about the things you see, and process this data consciously and purposefully. Then you arrive at a conclusion of where to go.

With dowsing, either of these mechanisms could be used. In the case where you don't have a clue what you are doing, you may be using pure ideamotor guessing responses, and digging lots of empty holes. Or you may be processing information you read at the library, and on maps that give you some ideas about the treasure when you decide where to dowse at. Perhaps thinking and arriving at conclusions constitutes part of the "trigger" for this manner of dowsing.

But what about the possibility that there are more sensory mechanisms than the 5 common senses? Suppose a dowser has some sensory input that tells him to feel nervous and causes his arm muscles to twitch when he walks in certain locations. Suppose he also has a certain "recognizable feeling" that he has learned to associate with different kinds of anomalies he finds when he is dowsing. None of this has been confirmed, but it haas been reported by some dowsers. If it is true, then what about determining the source of this "sensory input"?
Best wishes,
J_P

First, I am confused about your use of, or the spelling of the term we are discussing. You consistently talk about ideamotor response. Ideamotor apraxia is the inability to carry out a command from the brain to mimic limb or head movements performed or suggested by others. Conceptual apraxia is similar to ideamotor apraxia, but infers a more profound malfunctioning in which the function of tools or objects is no longer understood.

I am speaking about the trigger for an ideomotor response. Are we talking about the same thing?

I'll assume we are. Then, certainly, there could be some other sense, other than the five we know about. And, yes it could be the trigger for an ideomotor response that could accurately reflect the location of a sought after target. Hypothetically speaking, that could be a possibility to explain "accurate dowsing". However, no matter where the source of the trigger is located, (ie. sixth sense, etc.) the operator can never tell for sure the source of the trigger, which is all I'm contending.